Can we be certain that Jesus Christ was born on December 25th? The Bible gives no exact date for His birth, so why celebrate on a date tied to pagan traditions? 🎄
The first recorded instance of December 25th being celebrated as Christ's birth comes from a Roman calendar in AD 336, long after it was used to celebrate Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (the “Birthday of the Unconquered Sun”). This date is speculated to have origins in ancient Babylon (approx. 2000 BC), marking the birth of Tammuz, and is celebrated after a woman’s typical gestation period following the pagan fertility festival of Easter. By aligning Christ’s birth with this pagan festival, we risk blending the worship of God with sun worship, which the Bible condemns (Romans 1:25).
Let’s also remember the abominable practices described in Ezekiel 8:16-18, where the people were worshipping the sun in God’s temple—an act of rebellion against God. As Ecclesiastes 1:9 reminds us, “There is nothing new under the sun”, and such practices persist even today.
Additionally, Jeremiah 10:2-5 warns against the customs of the nations, such as cutting, fastening in place and decorating trees with silver and gold—practices still reflected in today’s December 25th tradition. This mirrors an ancient pagan ritual that elevates the tree to the status of an idol.
In Deuteronomy 12:29-32, God specifically commands His people not to adopt the worship practices of other nations, emphasizing that worship must align with His word in Bible scripture, not with man-made traditions.
If you love the LORD God, flee from this pagan festival and don’t justify it for the sake of family. Jesus said, “Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me” (Matthew 10:37 ESV).
We are commanded to worship God in spirit and truth. If the world or your family opposes you, rejoice, for your reward in heaven will be great. As they persecuted the prophets, so they will persecute you. May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you, to Him be the glory, now and forever.
Sol Invictus was a Pagan RESPONSE to Christmas. The 24th was a date set almost immediately after the life of Christ.
If all this sophistry is true, WHY does the feast of Sol Invictus not pop up untill Christianity is on the rise in Rome, and COMPLETELY dissappear after Christianity is decriminalized in the Empire?
The date comes from the Bible and an assumed 9 month gestational period, thats all.
The Apostles knew Christ, thousands of people knew who He was, Christianity blossomed rapidly while the Apostles were still alive. Early Christianity would have known when to celebrate the birth of the Lord.
"But the earliest record is 300 years later" all the records are three centuries later, every writing we have is 300 years after Christ. The Church was underground and persecuted before that point, no earlier documents have survived.
It's like saying "Are we sure those people in 2024 actually knew when the Declaration of Independence was signed?" There are still people alive with familial stories and direct connection to the event. It's not possible to have mass tricked the entire United States into the wrong date in a such a short period of time.
The same would have been true in 330 AD. If what was written in 336 AD was wrong, it would have been immediately disputed in 337 AD, and we would have an actual record. Instead we have pure consensus for 1700 years of recorded history.
But is there not a connection between what is written in the bible and the dating?
We know the Annunciation is celebrated on March 24th, and they just added 9 months flat to arrive at Dec 24th.
We know John the Baptists Birthday is celebrated on June 24th and Mary visited Elizabeth on the day of the Annunciation and Elizabeth was said to be exactly 6 months pregnant.
Also, the book of Chronicles talks all about the 24 priestly divisions and when each would serve based on the lunisolar calandar. Zacharias is talking with Gabriel in the temple about Elizabeth being able to have a baby 9 months before June 24th...
Zacharias would have been in charge of Sukkot in 2 BC and I am fairly certain in you check the lunisolar calandar, Sukkot started on Sep 24th in 2BC.
Yes if you know at least one of the dates, the other two can be inferred.
I believe this is where the original argument came from, neither date is actually in the Word, and since the inference between the dates is in exact months, one or all dates "must" be fabricated.
Unfortunately for the doubters, this simply illuminates that there are actually three dates in the Christian tradition of the third century that must be proven false to dismantle the 25th of December.
Yes, there are many who want to connect Christianity to something Pagan, like the OP. Historical record is clear that the December festival of note was Saturnalia and that was over long b4 the 25th and as noted, the Emperor was pushing BACK against already existing Christian celebrations when he essentially fabricated his own 'Pagan Christmas."
I wonder if praying or bowing or singing means Christians are Pagan... cuz well... Pagans bowed and sung and prayed...😆.
"Early Christianity would have known when to celebrate the birth of the Lord."
They chose not to celebrate this event, rather other things, like Easter.
Celebrating birthdays was the emperors and kings to laude themselves, ordinary people didn't celebrate birthdays until modern times. At the time of the apostles, to celebrate Jesus' birthday would be a different meaning than today.
Got any evidence for that? They celebrated many events throughout the year, not just the resurrection.
And the King of Kings? The entire concept of the gift giving is because of the magi who came and celebrated his birth, as well there were heavenly hosts singing in the sky for the shepherds. Celebrating the birth of Christ is in the scripture itself. You'll need to provide some pretty strong evidence that early Christians did not do so.
This is a pointless argument since the known celebrations of Christmas go back significantly farther than "modern times." Ordinary people were celebrating Christmas 17 centuries ago for absolute certainty. Whether they celebrated their own birthdays is entirely moot.
Your "argument" is pointless.
Here's some information on pagan celebrations of birthdays. https://1stcenturychristian.com/Birthdays.html
Nice of you to completely sidestep and ignore everything I said while doubling down. Comes across as very loving and Christian of you.
Ding ding ding...
We have a thread winner right here!
Just look into the history of calendars. It’s hard for a smooth-brain like me to figure it out. Asia has it’s own cultural calendar clashing… This is just referring to the West:
Gregory's calendar reform modified the Julian rule, to reduce the average length of the calendar year from 365.25 days to 365.2425 days and thus corrected the Julian calendar's drift against the solar year: the Gregorian calendar gains just 0.1 day over 400 years. For any given event during the years from 1901 through 2099, its date according to the Julian calendar is 13 days behind its corresponding Gregorian date (for instance Julian 1 January falls on Gregorian 14 January). Most Catholic countries adopted the new calendar immediately; Protestant countries did so slowly in the course of the following two centuries or so; most Orthodox countries retain the Julian calendar for religious purposes but adopted the Gregorian as their civil calendar in the early part of the twentieth century.
Good review and graphic. See my take.
24, 25, 26 of December is the winter solstice. At this point, everyone knows that it's not at all a Christian holiday.
Saturnalia is the pagan holiday observed with masks, giving of presents, and orgies.
Easter is also not a Christian holiday, it's the fertility festival of the demonic deity Ishtar. Do you want to guess if orgies are done on that holiday too?
Example 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6kj1jpbyDE
Example 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3GTnzPq3hE
(the whole channel is a must-see for every Christian, although you seem quite knowledgeable about many of the subjects in it. Still, hope you find it interesting.)
Do you want the real date of the birth of the Lamb of God? Pay close attention:
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." - Revelation 13:8
Your skills in spreading Christianity would be great in a forum that actually listens. Unfortunately, here you have the types of people, who would use Christianity to portray themselves as better than everyone else.
Example - the user "TurnToGodNow" - https://conspiracies.win/p/19A0jzcLzR/passive-christianity/c/4ZGUXbFZPcc . He clearly has no ears to hear, even when so many different users address his arrogance. If you decide to stay in this forum, I hope you achieve better results with this user. Just remember how Christianity here is used mostly for boasting, not as an actual religion. So, most of your upvotes are coming from people, who are Christians just because they hate the other religions.
Your work would be far more useful in forums with an actual discussion. I recommend reddit/conspiracy, reddit/conspiracy_commons, saidit, and 9gag (as surprising as that sounds)... Even 9gag is waking up to the evil in the world. Of course, you will meet negative replies everywhere, but at least there would be an actual discussion.
This forum is about 99% users, who were banned on other platforms, thus removing an actual criticism of their thoughts, so they think they know it all. Therefore, they will only care about what they say. They don't listen to other points of view. Basically, most users in here get their upvotes and positive comments from other users, who already agree with the concept. No thinking, no discussion... No improvement.
I really hope you find any use in this comment. At least watch the youtube channel, that has a lot of useful information.
I advise you to check out some of the comments in my reddit post which you might find eye opening: https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1hkn3kb/can_we_be_certain_that_jesus_christ_was_born_on/
Thank you, yes I watch Christian Video Vault quite often. Some excellent documentaries on there, although I often disagree with some of the things being presented. Funnily enough, the first video you linked my wife and I only just finished watching yesterday haha.
Regarding Revelation 13:8, Amen, Jesus has existed from the beginning with the Father (John 1:1-3, 14).
I mass-post in many places, including Reddit/conspiracy. I will check out 9gag though, thank you for the recommendation.
Thank you for the advice/recommendations brother.
a) Certain/certus - "fixed" contradicts birth/bear/bher - "to carry forth"...
b) Few suggest date/datus/dare - "to give", hence daring many to take.
I'm not reading your wall of text.
The celebration of Christmas on December 25th is a Christian takeover of the pagan holiday.
Stop being retarded.
That's precisely what my post states. I strongly caution you to be mindful of your words and insults.
If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame. (Proverbs 18:13 ESV)
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire. (Matthew 5:22 ESV)
"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit. You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." (Matthew 12:33-37 ESV)
People like you are at the core of problems in Christianity. Using the Bible as a little corrector-tool for OTHER PEOPLE, never once considering the "careless word" is your OWN.
To even make the suggestion Christ was born December 25th is to make our religion look full of dimwits
Mormons believe Christ was born April 6th... but still celebrate Christmas on the 25th of December.