Why has this site seen a huge turn towards Christian shit? It smells waaay off. Like, Russel Brand and all these other influencers turn Christian and this forum becomes overrun with worshippers of the Lord God of Israel via the Jesus psy op.
Why have TPTB decided to shove Christianity down everyones throats and flood boards with Christian bots etc?
Are they trying to strengthen their grip over us spiritually by reinforcing their original deception or what?
c/Christianity was one of the first forum boards on this site, maybe you're just now catching on?
As for conspiracies against Christ and His followers, the tale is old as time (song as old as rhyme..)
continuation of dead-ended thread:
YHWH permitted his altar-ego Satan to do that to Job. For a bet/to prove a point. And they both kept holding sitreps on the matter.
Jobs children were killed. Why? Why would an allegedly loving god permit the killing of Jobs children?
And does he really think that giving Job more money is adequate compensation? Why?
And why does he shout at Job after agreeing to all the torment?
On your answer to the devil question, that may be. But give me some examples of things that the devil might do where you could spot it and go aha! That's the work of the devil!
I suspect you know the point I'm getting at - that the tendencies and actions of your god YHWH are indistinguishable from anything the devil himself would ordain or carry out.
psst (whisper it) it's because your god is the evil god. Satan himself masquerading as an angel of light - although his disguise is as the emperors new clothes for some of us... perhaps you might also arise from your stupour and see YHWH's little inch of evil flopping about in all its shame..
God has no alter and no equal.
When you say God shouted, do you mean when He said, where were you when I formed the earth?
If so, I think He was setting Job straight in his thinking. Job appreciated it too as do I when it happens.
You have things twisted, Lucifer doesn't love us, we are merely a bullets he uses to shoot at God, stop being ammunition and lay down your weapons.
do you agree that YHWHs actions are indistiguishable from any actions the devil might take?
Such as hardening pharoahs heart in order to keep providing himself a justification for sending plagues, culminating in mass child murder - of people and livestock.
Would you say that was more of a godly thing to do, or more of a devilish thing to do?
Please just answer straightforwardly. Take your cue from Jesus here and:
Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
No.
Will you condemn me as evil if i say more than one syllable? (You misunderstand that verse then)
I think God was solidifying the choices Pharoah had all ready been making. (He also drove Nebuchadnezzar crazy and into the wild like an animal and Nebbie saw God's salvation, Praise Him. He has His ways and they're not ours, His thinking is higher than ours and we won't know everything, this side of glory.)
see how thoroughly you have been duped into justifying obvious evil by claiming it is 'higher thinking'?
We're talking about gaslighting and child murder here.
You are the one being small minded my friend, you want the world to fit your narrative and that's not how life works. Sorry, not sorry.
no, I'm just going through the source material which is the basis of your belief and pointing out to you some things that may cause you to question whether such a deity is worthy of your worship.
I contend that your acceptance of YHWH - a hostile tribal God of a hostile and megalomaniacal people - is poisoning your spirit and causing you to put bitter (the deliberate murder of children and torment of an innocent man) for sweet (its a blessing for children to die / YHWH was setting Job right in his thinking)
then why aren't those people on their containment board then? Why infiltrate and bombard conspiracies?
It's not Conspiracies AGAINST Christ. It's pointing out that Christ IS the conspiracy - the taking over of Rome and using it to force gentiles into worshipping Yahweh the Elohim of Israel via their Yom Kippur scapegoat myth, Jesus.
Christ is the savior, the conspiracy is against His grace and salvation. Don't allow the devils to twist what God has given, our chains have been broken with the death and resurrection of Jesus. They've already lost.
Jesus, insofar as he even existed, had no time for you unless you were Jewish. In fact, Jesus saw you as his enemies whom he was to rule over.
He has brought you to the worship of YHWH, Elohim of Israel who has ordained that the goyim will serve Israel or perish. Yeah, those nations shall be utterly wasted (Isaiah 60:12) and it is Jesus who will carry out our destruction (Psalm 110).
Jesus is a trick buddy. Your own gods were abolished by the conquering Jews using the Romans to accomplish it. They burned all your temples, deleted your own gods, burned down all the ancient libraries and FORCED your ancestors into worshipping the Israelite God.
Christianity (and Islam) is THEE conspiracy, for they deceive gentiles into worshipping the God of Israel.
I think you don't understand, God came to save everyone and He uses whatever means and people He sees fit, there is no darkness in Him, other gods were demolished for our good because devils seek death and God is the life giver.
I agree, I think there are great conspiracies concerning them all; Cain and Abel, Ishmael and Issac, Esau and Jacob, Dan an the other 11 tribes, Judah (Benjamin,Judah, Levi?) and the lost tribes (Asher, Gad, Isaachar, Naphthali, Rueben, Simeon, Zebulon and Manessah?), who I think will be banded together under Ephraim in the end. Jesus can save everyone, I don't believe God has made anyone He didn't hope to see again. Abandon your false gods.
(Also I think I'm missing something important with Noah's sons..)
If YHWH is all good and other gods were demolished for 'our' good then how do you explain his continual calls for genocide?
And why does he state that the nation that does not serve israel shall be utterly wasted?
Why does he say that israel will eat the riches of the nations and that we will lick the dust of their feet?
Why does he say to rejoice in the bashing of babies off of rocks?
Finally, where in the entire bible does YHWH ever claim to be the god of any people other than the Israelites? He's not your god in his own view. For reasons already explained, you believe he is your God but nowhere can you point me to YHWH himself saying that he is anyones loving god but the Israelites. Declaring himself a conqueror of nations doesn't count.
That's a challenge for you if you're up for it
I will look into this and thank you for the challenge. I'll search by the key words you provided since you didn't link relevant scripture, the only words that matter are God's words on the matter.
If I may ask you, do you know who are all the Israelites in our present time? It's something I'm trying to figure out also.
The challenge, as you put it, is deep. While it certainly is an opportunity to grow, it's not the easiest step to take, and neither is it a small one. I urge you to pray, to see if God even wants you addressing this in your own walk at this time.
I suggest that exploring what SS is into is an essential prerequisite to this topic, broadly. Also that Jewish teaching on this includes many perspectives, none of which deserve to be ignored. I seriously doubt that OP has the patience for any of this, if he has even a drop of sincerity. Hopefully I'm proven wrong about that, but it's not a light matter.
Try searching Sephardi, Mizrahi, marranos. They love being called white colonizers. ;)
He has a point. Following Jesus can seem subversive to ones country, govt (which used to include the respective religious cult as a means of social peace through appeasement to one's deities) and ethne if one does not have a high view of the truthfulness of scripture or see it's narrative being reflected in reality.
I don't think anyone knows really. They're apparently 'lost'. Some circles claim that Europeans are made up of Israelite tribes and that the Danes, for example, are named for the tribe of Dan.
Other still might suggest that the Ethiopians are definitely in there.
Others still that black people in general but particularly those in America are part of the lost tribes (Black Hebrew Israelites).
They've probably been diluted out of existence through mixing. Perhaps the entire story is mythical. Perhaps there is just jews.
I would like you to confirm if these are the 3 scriptures you allude to, the 1st and 5th I think are over-arching themes and I don't feel pressed to pinpoint it in one verse, if you don't mind.
As for genocide, I would encourage you to help me by pinpointing the scriptures you are using in your estimation. There are many. I would blanketly state any genocide ordered or ordained would be because of it's incontrollable evil, my first thought is the great flood, God regretted His creation and has promised that is over. (Edit: He won't wipe us all out ever again)
Isaiah 60:12
For the nation and the kingdom
that will not serve you will perish;
those nations will be annihilated
If this is the verse you mean then my explanation would be; God has shown you all His ways through these people throughout oral and written history for millennia and if, in the end, He is rejected then you will receive what you wish, to be far from Him.
will kneel before Him—
even the one who cannot preserve his life.
If this is the verse you refer to I would highly suggest reading the whole Psalm, it has been irreplaceable in my understanding the Lord and savior Jesus Christ and His sacrifice. To the quoted verse, if it is the correct one, I would say from dust we were made and dust we shall return, but the Lord has given us the opportunity for new life and eternal bodies, through His sacfrifice.
and dashes them against the rocks.
If this is the scripture you speak about I would give my great thanks to u/SwampRangers for getting to this sooner than I, his explanation is what I understand also. Evil is so nasty in it's torments that it can indeed be a blessing to be spared.
Hi, on the first point - yes, you're correct in genocide being an overarching (and very repetitive) theme.
Why order the murder of babies? And of livestock? When Saul kept some sheep and cattle alive to burn in sacrifice to YHWH, YHWH changed his mind towards Saul being King of Israel - because he didn't fulfil the complete and utter genocide of the Amalekites and all their livestock! Is this really the god you accept as your own? Is this really a god you can call all good and all-loving?
Deuteronomy 7 contains the command to genocide many peoples and reiterates the fact that YHWH is the god of Israel only and of no other nation. For example:
Deu 7:1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; Deu 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Deu 7:3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. Deu 7:4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. Deu 7:5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. Deu 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
See? He chose ONLY Israel to be his very own. And to conquer all other nations. Hence the verse in Isaiah 60:12 which states that the nation that does not serve thee (Israel) shall perish. Yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted. There were multiple genocides past in the bible, and more yet to follow for the sake of the fulfilment of prophecy - which Jesus says he is come to do and that no jot or tittle shall pass until ALL be fulfilled.
For example, Jesus acknowledged that it is he who is referred to in Psalm 110 in Matthew and Mark. Thus:
Mar 12:35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David? Mar 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. Mar 12:37 David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
Psalm 110 says that Jesus will rule of Israels enemies and that they will be made his footstool. The enemies of Israel were Rome - and it was Rome that became the seat of Christianity in what was the Jews theological conquest of the gentiles and parasitisation of the Roman Empire. Remember, it is Jesus being spoken of in Psalm 110 where it says: Psa 110:5 My Lord is at your right side, and when he gets angry he will crush the other kings. Psa 110:6 He will judge the nations and crack their skulls, leaving piles of dead bodies all over the earth.
Jesus will judge the nations (goyim ie the non-Jews), crack our skulls and leave piles of dead bodies all over the earth. Is this guy REALLY your saviour...?
sa 49:23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.
Our leaders are to fall at the feet of Israel and lick up the dust of their feet. I mean, they already do so now, but still...
Or in Micah 7:16-17:
Mic 7:16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf. Mic 7:17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the LORD our God, and shall fear because of thee.
Us goy (nations) are likened to worms and will be afraid of their god and shall be in fear because of Israel. Their god is not your god. Them and their god hates you if your not Jewish. Jesus is one of them and is not your saviour.
This is completely false.
Your entire position is based on ignorance.
This can be discussed, but it isn't brief.
They do kinda align, we both believe that we are being lied to by our leaders.
But I admit, its strange thats its all, praise jesus and your dumb if you fall for the curve. We dont see many bigfoot or ufo posts here, which is what I consider really strange.
I also admit though I have a soft spot for religious people. I want to believe myself but I cant believe in something I have no proof of.
Theres way more proof that space exists than god actually exists, but something something faith.
You're whack.
Some people just need to be whacked.
USA was absolutely founded on Christianity.
People like you have NEVER been trusted in the US.
Go back to your containment board, faggot.
For some reason I haven't seen you around much. Do you actually want logical, robust answers as a conspiracist would require, or is your mind made up already? We all seek truth together here. Besides your need to take u/Thisisnotanexit seriously, I'm pointing out some quick takes so you know that it's credible to recognize that the answers exist.
If you see several influencers turning to Christ, that would be answered by whether Christianity holds the best truth claims or not.
I've never seen Christian bots. Please point any out by pinging me directly.
c/Conspiracies has for many years allowed civil Christian and anti-Christian debate. You might rather investigate how Conspiracies was created (wasn't it absorbed from Reddit?).
If someone had taken over Rome to force Gentiles into worshipping Yahweh, that would be interesting and intriguing; never heard of this, so what is your evidence?
You're going to play Jesus not existing against Jesus teaching Gentiles to be enemies? That's illogical.
If we pretended Christianity used some ineffective legend about a questionably extant anti-Gentile individual to convert billions of Gentiles, that would be more miraculous than what happened.
The Bible says Israel is also a "goy" (nation). Most religions hold that those who don't accept their truth will perish, regardless of whether the truth community is called by a national name (like New Israel) or another name. Nothing to see there.
Yes, Christianity is about the destruction of all gods except whomever the true Creator is. Any truth seeker would want to know who the true Creator is and to determine if anyone else had any deity at all, and we propose that Yahweh is the best candidate and no other has any claims on deity.
Genocide calls are pretty consistent with just-war principles in any religion: they only apply to belligerent nations that have rejected truth formally and governmentally. A couple passages have been taken out of context to claim otherwise, but they're not difficult in context.
You allude to Ps. 137:9, "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy [Babylon's] little ones against the stones." Again, this refers to a nation that has abrogated its social place in seeking truth and upholding human relations. One reading is that innocent children are spared a worse fate in a war situation, another reading is that the culture has poisoned even its children into conscious participation against human morality. Without your proposing some better moral system there's no high ground for you to object to this verse; Viking poetry is far worse.
It sounds like you want to play a gotcha out of the God of Israel not being accepted prior to Jesus as the God of any other nation (like Armenia). Many "God so loved the world" verses could be brought to bear but you might still argue that you're not seeing what you claim to see. Therefore the question is what you intend to prove. Should I line up everyone from Dumuzid to Jupiter to determine whether they have a fair shake on being God of all the earth? I think that's exactly what Yahweh is asking us to watch happen in world history and so it wouldn't prove anything until the decisive contest that some anticipate. So it's unclear what assertion you wish to make about what could be better than Yahweh starting his group revelation via a single nation.
In short I'm not seeing useful conspiracy discussion advancing here for the most part, I'm seeing a mix of individual perceptions of some kind of brigading, a couple hackneyed objections to Christianity without any superior alternative, and a unique proposal that the Hebrew roots of Christianity must somehow invalidate it, as if the true Creator would never work by progressive revelation that passes through a people-group for a significant period. Would love to know if you're interested in discussion toward establishing truth.
Influencer suggest information to tempt others to hold onto it, which then turns them against each other, hence truth vs false reasoning.
What about rebranding ROAM to ROME; thereby affixing a place within the minds of those ignoring the moving force of nature? This shapes gentiles into lost sheep who are wondering/wandering (to roam) within the roman dominion (empire) of a jewish sovereign, each operating as a "wandering jew".
Logic implies circular thinking within self turning into conflicts of reason against others, hence en-e-my (within me).
a) Gentile implies an effect within the cause of generation. A jew suggests legend/legere/leg - "to collect; gather" to tempt effects together by tricking mass consent to suggestion as an artificial cause.
Effect (perception) within cause (perceivable) can be affected (suggestion) by others...
b) Consenting to a suggestion con-verts aka turns together gentiles within conflicts of reason, like...effective vs ineffective.
These conflicts are artificial and distract one from discerning self within nature as effective within cause aka "in-effective".
Nation aka native (life) within action (inception towards death) implies each ones need to resist wanted temptation, hence israel/yisra'el - "he that striveth with God".
A goyim/golem consents to follow the suggested temptations by others, while ignoring to resist perceivable.
So israel (each jew) implies a nation, while goy (collective of gentiles) implies a nation in denial...
Each religion/religio - "to bind anew" tempts believers and non-believers to hold onto suggested information.
Acceptance or denial of suggested truth or lies distracts one from discerning self as will within perish/perire/per - "forwards" aka as life being forwarded from inception towards death.
Where can one see no thing? How could one thing (perception) within every thing (perceivable) see no thing?
Christian implies "to anoint" aka the separation of each one within all aka establishment (life) during destruction (inception towards death).
A jew suggests pluralism aka polytheism (gods) to tempt each anointed (christ) gentile to join "christianity" through mass consent, which turns gentiles against each other aka anti-christ.
Joining (plural) contradicts anointing (singular)...the bond of religion contradicts the being of each christ aka ones consent to the suggestion of another contradicts ones choice by selecting a chosen one as sovereign over self.
Ones consent to suggested creation-ism establishes a conflict of reason (true vs false) about what others suggest IS, while one ignores what perceptibly WAS.
Coming into being implies a transfer from cause (perceivable) into effect (perception) aka an internal separation aka an unction/anointment of each one within all/oil...
OY VEY implies the WAY of OIL...for each salty seed within.
Just implies balance; war implies imbalance...it's ones choice ignoring balance (need/want) which imbalances (want vs not want) itself.
Belligerent aka bellum (war) gerere (to carry) implies holding onto a side within a conflict, while carrying the burden of con-sequence (following together).
Doing that tempts one to ignore that nation implies a separation of NAT-ives within act-ION.
a) Consenting to suggested moralism lures one into a circular conflict of reason...better versus worse aka a circumference (better/worse) lured into its center (versus).
In reality...a straight outside (inception towards death) generates each curved center (life) within.
b) Proposing a suggestion tempts those who consent to ignore ones position (perception) within pro/per/forward (perceivable).
Aka inhale and exhale thy confusion/disorder/confused medley of sounds aka the babel/babble of suggested words crafted into a medley within perceivable sound.
Medley; noun - "hand-to-hand combat, war, battle" aka a conflict of reason, hence medley/meddle - "mixing together"... https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=medley
Prior to Je suis (i am) implies all was before each one came into being.
Taking possession (je suis; i am) within a process of separation (christ; to anoint) establishes a contra-dict-ion aka conflict (contra) of shows (dict/deik) within action (ion)...that's how all the world became a stage for the onlookers.
Jesus (holding onto) contradicts Christ (setting apart).
Be set apart implies being (life) moved A-CROSS (inception towards death)...ignoring to discern this for self implies ones de-NIAL/NAIL.
Only within all can one be "of"...
Seeing implies the separation of each ones perception within all perceivable, hence each being enabled to see moving differences among each other.
A jew suggests tikkun olam (repairing the world by mixing together) to equalize differences among the unique perspective of each gentiles.
Like for example mixing white and black together corrupts the perceivable spectrum of light in-between white (pure light) and black (absence of light). Absence implies ones sense willingly abdicating (ignorance) from light (discernment).
The jewish suggestion "There's not a problem that I can't fix...'Cause I can do it in the mix" goes INDEEP into a gentiles mind if consented to... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtfZbj4J71A
To know implies effect (perception) adapting to cause (perceivable)...interest in discussions about suggested tempts one towards outcome.
Anointing suggests on-ointment, joining oil to flesh. Oil represents flow, flesh represents form. Jesus holds onto oil, and sets apart from non-oil.
a) Perception implies natural; suggestion implies artifice. Suggestion tempts consent into a binding contract, which artificially annuls natural anointment.
b) Before something can be applied ON; something has to be separated IN everything, hence from all into each anointed one.
c) Before one can join oil onto flesh...flesh has to come into form (life) within flow (inception towards death).
Once again there's a difference between natural and artificial anointment, tempting many to buy artificial oil for their flesh from few, who advertise it as "essential" oil, which it isn't, since essence implies "being".
a) Represent implies ones response to all presented...flow cannot respond to presented; only form within flow can, which implies adaptation.
b) Perceivable oil implies the momentum (inception towards death) of all motion for each matter (life) within. Coming into being through MOM-entum implies the natural anointment from father (motion) through mother (momentum) into each off-spring aka seed.
Oil implies the entire process from flow into form aka oil/all.
c) Suggested oil is shaped by form; out of form, and for form, while tempting form to ignore flow. It's being advertised as skin-care aka carried upon skin aka a burden upon that which nature set free.
Few suggest many to apply oil from outside to prevent skin from drying out; which tempts many to ignore that flow forces itself through form, hence pouring liquid outwards, which forces solid to replenish aka generation forcing re-generation aka action forcing re-action.
a) Christ implies the setting apart of all into each anointed one; jesus aka je suis (i am) implies one taking possession over self, while ignoring the procession of all.
b) Non implies suggested nihil-ism (nihilo; nothing) tempting one to de-nial perceivable for suggested.
c) Coming through the birth-channel sets each anointed being free from one another, hence wielding FREE will of choice. Choosing to hold onto implies rubbing against each other, thereby annulling anointment aka rubbing off, which also implies a transfer agreement between ones consent and another ones suggestion, hence few selling many something to hold onto.
Join; verb - "uniting into whole" inverts whole (all) separating into units (one). Only one within all can dis-cern self aka distinguish between ones perception and all perceivable.
A jew suggests gentiles to join aka tikkun olam (repairing the world by bringing together) aka abrahamism (father of multitude) aka e pluribus unum (out of many; one) aka united states; united nation; united kingdom; soviet union; european union; uniformity; university; unisex; unicode; usb aka equality through diversity aka artificial sovereignty based upon natural equity aka multiculturalism; miscegenation; mongrelization; melting pot; mass migration and on and on and on...
If God (all), then separation into each Christ (one)...the joining of Jesus + Christ inverts that separation.
You brought up influencers. Their statements can be tested by truth.
On a quick review I see a little history of force such as against the Saxons by Charlemagne. This was done by kings or by mobs, not by church officials, so it would be in the category of government persecution, not of forced conversion by the Catholic Church. So we could list wrongs done by religious rulers or emperors, but I don't see the connection. We are free here to discuss and apprehend truth together, including the truth that lots of people have been bad at that in the past, but their bad example doesn't affect what the truth is.
The evidence that Jesus is one of the best-attested men of antiquity has considerately been pinned by the mod of Atheist for several years. If you'd like to discuss that in the search for truth, please proceed. You seem to accept the existence of Paul, so if you'd like to discuss differences between the two in the search for truth, that's good too, but be prepared for the idea that they don't disagree.
I claim the name "Christian" but restrict that to whomever the true Creator really is and not to whomever I think he is at any moment. The truth is greater than myself and I'm dedicated to the truth and not to myself. For me everything is on the table except that I am sold as a slave to truth. If you see differences between the true Creator and Yahweh in the search for truth, that too is good discussion.
c/Christianity has already investigated genocide passages, but going into that detail isn't useful unless we know what and why we're seeking. Since you didn't get specific, I didn't reply specifically as I did with the next passage.
Ps. 137:9 is a poem rather than a history, calling for vengeance on the occupying nation of Babylon, not in reference to any historical event in which that vengeance occurred. The author proposes the hypothetical that, due to its immorality and guilt, its conquerors will be "happy" even if babies are destroyed in the chaos of war. It is not speaking of a judicial punishment per se, it speaks of a cruelty that may happen by the judgment of individual callous soldiers, and it's not saying this happens in time of peace but it's saying the natural consequences of war are rightly determined upon Babylon by the Creator. The word translated "happy" is closer to its English equivalent "fortuitous" or to the more literal "blest", indicating that the soldier who makes that judgment is, unlike at any other time, "happening" to accord with a greater justice upon the people, and with the natural consequences upon the individual child and the family. In short, it's a brief explanation of a deep principle that has merit, and it's not at all a teaching justifying force in matters of conscience.
TLDR: Evils of religious kings, nature of Jesus, nature of Paul, nature of the Creator are all good topics we could develop. If there were a "Jesus psyop" then these would be good pillars to attack. What's interesting is that so many people who are free to study and choose truth come to find that truth in Jesus. I repeat, "Do you actually want logical, robust answers as a conspiracist would require, or is your mind made up already?" If you commit to follow the truth wherever it leads, as I do, we can have fruitful discovery together, and you may even be able to disabuse me of errors I've made.
It wasn't like this during covid mind you. So yes, kinda.
There is a reason why they called their believers "lambs". They want people to enjoy being sheep.
We're sheep that need a shephard because humans are stupid, even moreso with the knowledge we 'so' desired. Please stop talking about things you don't 'know', MrEx.
This is NOT what sheep refer to in Scripture!
NOT AT ALL
This is only one of the many things that we as English speakers inherently miss out on, that ANE (ancient near east) culture understood as common knowledge.
David was a shepherd; as such, he had intimate knowledge of sheep. Have you even met a shepherd?
I've never met a shepherd in person. Seem like cool people.
There's a lot we can learn about this online, that gives insight into the whole sheep thing in Scripture.
Basically they are very smart; smart enough that they have distinct personalities. They also are extremely picky about who they trust and who they do not. I guess that makes sense when you're basically lunch on a stick for wolves. And while modern shepherds use guns and sheepdogs in combination, and sheepdogs are some of the most dangerous dogs there are for this exact reason, (they're bred to fight to the death and you aren't breaking their skull which is the guaranteed way to definitely stop most dogs that might attack) Biblical shepherds relied on different techniques.
Those techniques were common knowledge at the time, and therefore never explained in Scripture. I don't remember the details off the top of my head well enough to explain it clearly, but I do recall that it adds a lot of richness to the Word.
Personally, the most interaction I've had with a sheep was getting to the point where one would ram into me because it wanted affection. They are surprisingly forceful, and unsurprisingly related to ... Rams! I was shocked by this at first, and frankly so was the shepherd; sheep don't usually take to someone that quickly.
Mr ex is correct though. Jesus instruction was to become as a child - that is to say, naive and trusting and not to use your critical faculties. You are to be as a sheep and a child, questioning nothing, requiring nothing proven, but to take it all on trust or faith.
This is not good advice. You should absolutely maximise all of your critical faculties in order to be able to spot nonsense and deceit and to discern good advice from bad.
He also said be wise as serpents. I agree with your statement, but also his. See my longer comment.
he did say that, but only to his twelve apostles when sending them out to proselytise. It wasn't general advice to all.
In fact, he purposefully kept his 'sheep' in the dark, revealing his teachings only to his cronies. Thus:
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Jesus, pretending to impart wisdom to his followers, was actually just stringing them along whilst purposefully deceiving and confusing them.
Jesus warned his fellow Jews not to give holy things to the dogs (gentiles) or cast their pearls before swine (also gentiles)
at 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
This is also echoed in the story of the Canaanite woman:
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. Mat 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. Mat 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
The dogs are the gentiles whilst the children are the children of god, the Jews. Only when the Canaanite woman acknowledged the Jews as 'masters' and her own status as a 'dog' did Jesus deign to help.
This is the true Jesus - a thoroughly unpleasant, hateful, racial supremacist literary figure posing as a good guy whilst deceiving even his fellow Jews with unfathomable parables but hoarding his real secrets for his inner crew - just like all secret societies since. He is not a purveyor of truth, but a gatekeeper of it.
Did you have a better teacher than Jesus?
Your methods here are not following logic. (1) "Not general advice" is your assumption; (2) Jesus told the apostles to speak his words from the rooftops, and they did, contrary to your assumptions; (3) "Purposefully deceiving and confusing" is your assumption, as there is no deceit and the parabolic style is not confusion; (4) "Dogs" and "swine" didn't mean Gentiles per se any more than "sheep" or "serpents" meant Israelites, they were metaphors; (5) Jesus praising the woman's great faith and her receiving healing after he tested her sincerity are contrary to your narrative.
But let's imagine your "thoroughly unpleasant, hateful, racial supremacist literary figure posing as a good guy whilst deceiving even his fellow Jews with unfathomable parables but hoarding his real secrets for his inner crew - just like all secret societies since .... not a purveyor of truth, but a gatekeeper of it" for a moment. As I linked from c/Atheist, someone had to have written out the life of this character and to plot out such distinct moral teachings and claims of divinity as were hardly conceivable in those days. It would take a Jesus to invent a Jesus. Someone is there with great truths, and the simplest truths there are not hidden but are clear to children. And when I compare this to every other religious etiology in existence I find this one the best, the fullest, and the incomparable, by many objective standards. The Bible's Jesus requires us either to accept his ways or to despair of finding anyone whose ways can be accepted. That's the choice I ask you when I redirect you to whether you are willing to pursue the truth wherever it leads.
I'm sorry but I don't think you are really engaging in good faith here at all. Hoping to cast doubt on whether I'm being logical et al and trying to reduce what I say down to me making 'assumptions'. No, what I'm doing here is pointing out what the Bible itself says, thats all, and demonstrating to you that it is not for you but against you. You should be attempting to play the ball and not the man.
The 'dogs' in both of those examples DO refer to the gentiles. You can assert otherwise, but at least show your working.
Thanks, but it looks like you focused on the minors and ignored my primary questions. You don't get to critique the Christians using what you think is Christian interpretation and then not propose your own moral system, because by denying Christianity you have no right to proclaim judgment about its interpretation. That's othering.
Are you committed to follow truth wherever it leads? If yes, we can investigate where in my 50 linked points you think the truth diverges from my conclusions; that would allow us to judge questions about meaning of "dog", for instance. If no, then you're the one in bad faith and you're projecting that on me. I ask that question of people because it separates those interested in persuading me, at the risk of learning something new, from those who aren't mature enough to accept that risk.
Your OP ball is that Yahweh is not to be worshipped but you have no better alternative. That's the ball I'm playing. If you want to run from that ball it's on you.
This is completely false.
This is proven extensively through Scripture - but again this is not something that can be addressed quickly and easily.
Why are you even responding at all if everything you say can be summed up as ‘I would provide an answer, but it is too laborious’
You can't summarize anything I've said that way.
He’s a zionist shill
You don't know what either of those words mean.
Get a life you fucking loser
Are they all, when you get down to the brass tacks
Yeah have you ever even met a shepherd you fucking moron?!?
Not in person.
Don’t tell me that, tell that to your assistant pastor who asked hours before me, who I was merely humorously quoting
Ok.
You don't know what any of these words mean.
Including "quoting," a concept you've never grasped.
Jesus is the 'lamb of god'. The Jesus story is the anthropomorphisation of Yom Kippur and the Day of Atonement ritual in which a sacrifical scapegoat would have the sins of the jews placed on it before being sent out to the wilderness, whilst another would be sacrificed to their god.
They repackaged this wacky ritual and sold it to the gentiles via the Jesus story and now you have loads of gentiles cultishly saying they are 'washed in the blood of the lamb'
You have this exactly backwards.
OT stories prefigure Christ, in the effort to enable at least somebody to grasp what was going on. The similarities do work both ways through time.
In many ways this also happened to other cultures, throughout the world.
Your take is the take that is ‘exactly backwards’
The Jews, with the benefit of having the OT scriptures in front of them, created a midrashic messiah to fulfill their prophecies. A literary device. The creation of a myth and a new missionary sect of Judaism for the purpose of conquering and Judaising Rome and the gentiles.
Lol I see you don't have a drop of sincerity in any of your "questions"
You just described Simon Bar Khoba pretty well. Except it didn't work and Hadrien sent 12 legions to wreck that false messiah and expel the jews from judea.