Want the real answer? The first is that the bible is still relevent because the same identities have been formed from this narrative.
OUtside of that, this is a highly scripted reality. Its driven by unseen forces that love to manipulate us. We're in the middle of one of their scripts. They like to foreshadow. That's the real answer.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise. (Galatians 3:28-29 ESV)
For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. (Romans 2:28-29 ESV)
Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands-- remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit. (Ephesians 2:11-22 ESV)
For even those who are circumcised do not themselves keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. (Galatians 6:13-16 ESV)
“‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. (Revelation 2:9 ESV)
Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you. (Revelation 3:9 ESV)
For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. (Romans 9:3-8 ESV)
What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ And her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ There they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” And as Isaiah predicted, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, We would have been like Sodom And become like Gomorrah.” What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; And whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” (Romans 9:22-33 ESV)
I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.” And David says, “Let their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them; let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and bend their backs forever.” So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. (Romans 11:1-36 ESV)
For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles that they might be saved—so as always to fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them at last! (1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 ESV)
So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” They answered him, “We are offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say, ‘You will become free’?” Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. I know that you are offspring of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you. I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.” (John 8:31-38 ESV)
This is wrong translation, with important meanings replaced.
Original text tells about etnic Jews who pretend to be Judaists as religion, not some other people who pretent to be Jews as etnicity.
ιδου δεδωκα εκ τηϲ ϲυναγωγηϲ του ϲατανα των λεγοντω̅ εαυτουϲ ιουδαιουϲ ειναι και ουκ ειϲιν αλλα ψευδονται ιδου ποιηϲω αυτουϲ ινα ηξουϲιν και προϲκυνηϲουϲι̅ ενωπιον των ποδων ϲου και γνωϲη οτι εγω ηγαπηϲα ϲε
Jews who supposed to be "ιουδαιουϲ" (Ioudaious) according to agreement with God, turned back to praising and following their "ϲατανα" (Satana) instead of God.
It is exact same Jews of Old Testament who become synagogue of Satan, instead of staying Judaists and following God's commandments.
"Jew" as etnicity in Greek will be "Εβραίος" (Ebraios).
I don't understand. If ethnic Jew is "Ebraios", and that doesn't appear in the passage, why do you assume they are ethnic Jews? Did you see my link showing that the letter of Ignatius to Philadelphia gives all the context necessary for the local definition of the term as certain Gentiles? Obviously there are other prophetic definitions, but they involve adding to the text.
"Ioudaious" would be Judeans, not Judaists, so Judaists defined as commandment-followers is also not in focus there.
It also doesn't mean what Paul means by "Jew in spirit", because those are not binding themselves to follow the commandments.
It refers to people, in two cities only and not in the others Jesus wrote to, who say they are "Ioudaious" and are not so. I don't see how you're getting the meaning out of it that you do.
Only etnic Jews made a deal with God and so was obliged to be Judaists who they wasn't. No other etnicity had this obligation.
"Ioudaious" would be Judeans, not Judaists
No. "Judeans" as "inhabitants of place named Judea" just have no any sense in this context.
I don't see how you're getting the meaning out of it that you do.
Just read original text as it is, without any replacements.
This insane attempts of last years to whitewash fucking Jews, all that "its Khazars, not real Jews", "Israelis are not real Jews", "Nuland,Rotshild,Pritzker,etc are not real Jews", "all that Jewish bastards are not real Jews" is just stupid. Jews are Jews - the exact same tribe that God tried to save from Satan worshipping for millenia without any result. Just read Old Testament - it is a good history of Jewish crimes against humanity. Even during the most imortant for all Jewish history and unique event when Moses had negotiations with God, Jews was busy with what? Buiding their Golden Calf idol.
Fuck this. Jews are the synagogue of Satan. Ethnic implementation of Devil's servants on Earth. If they want to change this, they could try start from sincere and tribe-wide repentance for all their crimes against humanity starting from genocides and usury, including killing Jesus and renunciation of their "choosen" status. But I'm in serious doubt anybody will ever believe them. This train departed long ago. And they will be inevitably defeated as stated in Revelations.
they could try start from sincere and tribe-wide repentance for all their crimes against humanity starting from genocides and usury, including killing Jesus and renunciation of their "choosen" status
Great approach! Very much Romans 11. Notice, in Acts 3-4 the very same crowd that called for Jesus's death did repent and become many of the first 5,000 Christians; but most of the rest of the ethnic Jews at large still need to do the same, just as Gentiles do. So evangelists to Jews exist, and will not give up.
So I agree that it's silly to say "Jews are not Jews". But then I note that Jesus honors the Hebrew Scriptures and agrees they are a testimony of the many faithful covenant people over the millennia, which includes many of the Jews (which Paul says were enlightened ahead of the Gentiles for a time). So despite the many infiltrations, our covenant runs right through Israel before it gets to all the nations. It seems that God was saving some humans out of the Jews over all that time. Plus, since this synagogue will bow at the Christians' feet (as some actually did in Philadelphia), it doesn't seem like they will be all destroyed.
So, while they need this salvation, that's not what Rev. 3:9 is talking about. "των λεγοντω̅ εαυτουϲ ιουδαιουϲ ειναι και ουκ ειϲιν αλλα ψευδονται". Plaintext: They're not Ioudaious, it's a lie for them or anyone to say they are. The implication is that Jesus says true Ioudaious is a good thing. So it gets back to a conclusion I've stated before: either today's self-identified Jews are not true Jews and ought to be, or they are true Jews and are not the subject of the passage. That is, if self-identified Jews are the synagogue of satan then they're not true Ioudaious but they ought to be. We can't take Jesus's words, the synagogue of satan is not Ioudaious, and then make them mean the synagogue of satan is Ioudaious.
I'm going long because I never see the logic. It always seems like this: someone interprets from observation that those who say they are Jews are almost always evil; that one sees Jesus warning of a synagogue of satan that says they are Jews; these two logically connect. But then it should logically follow that they're not Jews (which is why people argue for Khazaria and Edom). But when one allows those saying they're Jews to actually be Jews by virtue of their self-determination and all polity, one creates the logic disconnect because Jesus's words (not Jews) don't apply anymore. So I can only conclude such a one is crossing two contradictory streams of logic that always result in contradiction.
Scriptures and agrees they are a testimony of the many faithful covenant people over the millennia, which includes many of the Jews (which Paul says were enlightened ahead of the Gentiles for a time).
And even with that huge advantage (at the time), Jews don't become honest and nice tribe. And they didn't go that path consciously. Even lasy Greeks with all their old pagan shit was able to become leading Christian nation at some moment.
So despite the many infiltrations, our covenant runs right through Israel before it gets to all the nations.
It exactly "runs through" Israel, leaving no single drop in it, like water through PTFE tube.
Who knows, may be Jews was a God's test if He really give humans free will. If even God can't convince some tribe to behave one way or another, then they really have free will. The problem is that we now have to deal with the consequences of this God's experiment. And it is up to us completely.
The implication is that Jesus says true Ioudaious is a good thing.
Fulfilling promises is a good thing. Jews had to eternally obey commandments (be Judaists) in exchange for their salvation, but they didn't. They broke the deal and betrayed God. That was a bad thing. Following terms of deal, doing what you promised to do is a good thing.
Only etnic Jews made a deal with God and so was obliged to be Judaists who they wasn't. No other etnicity had this obligation.
That was the OT. Christ's testament is with all people who follow Him.
Christianity is the fulfilment and the continuation of the OT worship practices and commandments. Anyone who has red the OT knows very well that while thew were God's chosen people they often disobeyed Him and got punished for it. What is described in the OT, the commandments, the tabernacle, the temple, etc is in effect proto-Christianity and not judaism.
Judaism as we know it today (rabbinic talmudism) is an aberration and a heresy of the religion described in the OT. This is exactly why Jesus argued against the pharisees and the sadducees and their oral tradition which twisted the meaning of the Torah. They were the true ancestors to the talmudic judaism we know today (which is a heresy and NOT a continuation of the religion of the OT). That's why they are of the Synagoge of Satan, because they don't worship the one true God, who is only worshipped through Christ and the Trinity.
This is the context of Rev. 3:9 - without this in mind, there is no way to correctly interpret what is meant by it.
If modern day Jews are not Jews, then who are the real Jews? Spiritually, you are supposed to render Jews as Christians, so the verse is talking about fake Christians, who are the Catholics, who also are the ones who came to worship at our feet.
Motion sets matter apart from one another, so neither could one move together, nor remain still, while being moved.
Basing ones assumption on a conflict of reason (correct vs incorrect) tempts many to respond alike to suggested conflict by few, which turns (versus/vertere/wer) many together in mutual destruction.
from around...years ago
a) How could linear time be a-ROUND?
b) Ago/agon - "departed; passed away"...how could a-ROUND circle depart or pass away?
behold...which say they are
a) A jew suggests SAYings to tempt a gentile BEing to HOLD onto it by consent...it doesn't matter what a jew says, only that gentiles behold it within self (circular logic), while fighting each other (conflicts of reason).
b) Coming (inception) into being (life) implies procession (death)...holding onto implies the temptation to ignore resisting being moved.
revelation
a) Action (inception towards death) reveals reactions (life). To be implies REVEL during ATION.
b) Reacting to each other conceals action...hence, holding onto a suggestion tempting one to ignore perception.
We’re still going to keep fighting the jews. Until there aren’t jews anymore. Nothing you say or do–no pilpul, no dialecticalism, nothing–will stop us from doing this.
Reply (you are forced by your contract of employment to do so; you cannot simply ignore this comment) with the same lie you always post when I say this–purposely ignoring everything I say, purposely ignoring the explicit definitions I have laid out, repeatedly, over the years, and which have never changed–claiming that it is not the jews. You know you want to.
the letter J was invented in the 1500 century. Go look in the Septuagint and vulgate for the word that was translated into what we call jews. the concept of "jews" was non existent back then. there was no ethnic group with there only religion. they were people who simple lived in Ieudea, or the roman provenance of Judaea. that book will do nothing but blind you from the real creator
When I was am edgy teenage I read the Bible, cover to cover. At that time my attitude was "Hur dur, sky daddy can't actually live in the sky".
As I get older, I realize that everything in the Bible is true, you just need to figure out what it means.
Correct according to who?
People can always twist and turn some garbage so it will support their own beliefs and view of the world.
It's because the Bible has been corrupted over the centuries to the point that no one knows what's authentic or not.
No doubt much of it hits home such as revelations.
Want the real answer? The first is that the bible is still relevent because the same identities have been formed from this narrative.
OUtside of that, this is a highly scripted reality. Its driven by unseen forces that love to manipulate us. We're in the middle of one of their scripts. They like to foreshadow. That's the real answer.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise. (Galatians 3:28-29 ESV)
For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. (Romans 2:28-29 ESV)
Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands-- remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit. (Ephesians 2:11-22 ESV)
For even those who are circumcised do not themselves keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. (Galatians 6:13-16 ESV)
“‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. (Revelation 2:9 ESV)
Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you. (Revelation 3:9 ESV)
For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. (Romans 9:3-8 ESV)
What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ And her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ There they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” And as Isaiah predicted, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, We would have been like Sodom And become like Gomorrah.” What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; And whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” (Romans 9:22-33 ESV)
I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.” And David says, “Let their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them; let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and bend their backs forever.” So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. (Romans 11:1-36 ESV)
For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles that they might be saved—so as always to fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them at last! (1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 ESV)
So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” They answered him, “We are offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say, ‘You will become free’?” Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. I know that you are offspring of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you. I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.” (John 8:31-38 ESV)
This is wrong translation, with important meanings replaced.
Original text tells about etnic Jews who pretend to be Judaists as religion, not some other people who pretent to be Jews as etnicity.
Jews who supposed to be "ιουδαιουϲ" (Ioudaious) according to agreement with God, turned back to praising and following their "ϲατανα" (Satana) instead of God.
It is exact same Jews of Old Testament who become synagogue of Satan, instead of staying Judaists and following God's commandments.
"Jew" as etnicity in Greek will be "Εβραίος" (Ebraios).
I don't understand. If ethnic Jew is "Ebraios", and that doesn't appear in the passage, why do you assume they are ethnic Jews? Did you see my link showing that the letter of Ignatius to Philadelphia gives all the context necessary for the local definition of the term as certain Gentiles? Obviously there are other prophetic definitions, but they involve adding to the text.
"Ioudaious" would be Judeans, not Judaists, so Judaists defined as commandment-followers is also not in focus there.
It also doesn't mean what Paul means by "Jew in spirit", because those are not binding themselves to follow the commandments.
It refers to people, in two cities only and not in the others Jesus wrote to, who say they are "Ioudaious" and are not so. I don't see how you're getting the meaning out of it that you do.
Only etnic Jews made a deal with God and so was obliged to be Judaists who they wasn't. No other etnicity had this obligation.
No. "Judeans" as "inhabitants of place named Judea" just have no any sense in this context.
Just read original text as it is, without any replacements.
This insane attempts of last years to whitewash fucking Jews, all that "its Khazars, not real Jews", "Israelis are not real Jews", "Nuland,Rotshild,Pritzker,etc are not real Jews", "all that Jewish bastards are not real Jews" is just stupid. Jews are Jews - the exact same tribe that God tried to save from Satan worshipping for millenia without any result. Just read Old Testament - it is a good history of Jewish crimes against humanity. Even during the most imortant for all Jewish history and unique event when Moses had negotiations with God, Jews was busy with what? Buiding their Golden Calf idol.
Fuck this. Jews are the synagogue of Satan. Ethnic implementation of Devil's servants on Earth. If they want to change this, they could try start from sincere and tribe-wide repentance for all their crimes against humanity starting from genocides and usury, including killing Jesus and renunciation of their "choosen" status. But I'm in serious doubt anybody will ever believe them. This train departed long ago. And they will be inevitably defeated as stated in Revelations.
Great approach! Very much Romans 11. Notice, in Acts 3-4 the very same crowd that called for Jesus's death did repent and become many of the first 5,000 Christians; but most of the rest of the ethnic Jews at large still need to do the same, just as Gentiles do. So evangelists to Jews exist, and will not give up.
So I agree that it's silly to say "Jews are not Jews". But then I note that Jesus honors the Hebrew Scriptures and agrees they are a testimony of the many faithful covenant people over the millennia, which includes many of the Jews (which Paul says were enlightened ahead of the Gentiles for a time). So despite the many infiltrations, our covenant runs right through Israel before it gets to all the nations. It seems that God was saving some humans out of the Jews over all that time. Plus, since this synagogue will bow at the Christians' feet (as some actually did in Philadelphia), it doesn't seem like they will be all destroyed.
So, while they need this salvation, that's not what Rev. 3:9 is talking about. "των λεγοντω̅ εαυτουϲ ιουδαιουϲ ειναι και ουκ ειϲιν αλλα ψευδονται". Plaintext: They're not Ioudaious, it's a lie for them or anyone to say they are. The implication is that Jesus says true Ioudaious is a good thing. So it gets back to a conclusion I've stated before: either today's self-identified Jews are not true Jews and ought to be, or they are true Jews and are not the subject of the passage. That is, if self-identified Jews are the synagogue of satan then they're not true Ioudaious but they ought to be. We can't take Jesus's words, the synagogue of satan is not Ioudaious, and then make them mean the synagogue of satan is Ioudaious.
I'm going long because I never see the logic. It always seems like this: someone interprets from observation that those who say they are Jews are almost always evil; that one sees Jesus warning of a synagogue of satan that says they are Jews; these two logically connect. But then it should logically follow that they're not Jews (which is why people argue for Khazaria and Edom). But when one allows those saying they're Jews to actually be Jews by virtue of their self-determination and all polity, one creates the logic disconnect because Jesus's words (not Jews) don't apply anymore. So I can only conclude such a one is crossing two contradictory streams of logic that always result in contradiction.
And even with that huge advantage (at the time), Jews don't become honest and nice tribe. And they didn't go that path consciously. Even lasy Greeks with all their old pagan shit was able to become leading Christian nation at some moment.
It exactly "runs through" Israel, leaving no single drop in it, like water through PTFE tube.
Who knows, may be Jews was a God's test if He really give humans free will. If even God can't convince some tribe to behave one way or another, then they really have free will. The problem is that we now have to deal with the consequences of this God's experiment. And it is up to us completely.
Fulfilling promises is a good thing. Jews had to eternally obey commandments (be Judaists) in exchange for their salvation, but they didn't. They broke the deal and betrayed God. That was a bad thing. Following terms of deal, doing what you promised to do is a good thing.
That was the OT. Christ's testament is with all people who follow Him.
Christianity is the fulfilment and the continuation of the OT worship practices and commandments. Anyone who has red the OT knows very well that while thew were God's chosen people they often disobeyed Him and got punished for it. What is described in the OT, the commandments, the tabernacle, the temple, etc is in effect proto-Christianity and not judaism.
Judaism as we know it today (rabbinic talmudism) is an aberration and a heresy of the religion described in the OT. This is exactly why Jesus argued against the pharisees and the sadducees and their oral tradition which twisted the meaning of the Torah. They were the true ancestors to the talmudic judaism we know today (which is a heresy and NOT a continuation of the religion of the OT). That's why they are of the Synagoge of Satan, because they don't worship the one true God, who is only worshipped through Christ and the Trinity.
This is the context of Rev. 3:9 - without this in mind, there is no way to correctly interpret what is meant by it.
Because it is not from 2000 years ago. Learn bible history
Because these facts were known thousand(s) of year(s) before the first bible was compiled
Because revelation is not about prophecy, but of past (again, read your scholarly historical bible studies, not silly christian bible exegesis)
This would be obvious to anyone who reads history.
If modern day Jews are not Jews, then who are the real Jews? Spiritually, you are supposed to render Jews as Christians, so the verse is talking about fake Christians, who are the Catholics, who also are the ones who came to worship at our feet.
Evangelicals are the fakest Christians known to man.
Are they the real jews too?
You tell me, who do you consider to be the real Jews?
I don't
Cor-rect implies being moved together within a straight line... https://www.etymonline.com/word/correct#etymonline_v_19105
Motion sets matter apart from one another, so neither could one move together, nor remain still, while being moved.
Basing ones assumption on a conflict of reason (correct vs incorrect) tempts many to respond alike to suggested conflict by few, which turns (versus/vertere/wer) many together in mutual destruction.
a) How could linear time be a-ROUND?
b) Ago/agon - "departed; passed away"...how could a-ROUND circle depart or pass away?
a) A jew suggests SAYings to tempt a gentile BEing to HOLD onto it by consent...it doesn't matter what a jew says, only that gentiles behold it within self (circular logic), while fighting each other (conflicts of reason).
b) Coming (inception) into being (life) implies procession (death)...holding onto implies the temptation to ignore resisting being moved.
a) Action (inception towards death) reveals reactions (life). To be implies REVEL during ATION.
b) Reacting to each other conceals action...hence, holding onto a suggestion tempting one to ignore perception.
https://scored.co/c/Christianity/p/19957g6WI4/i-found-the-real-synagogue-of-sa/c
That’s nice.
It’s the jews.
We’re still going to keep fighting the jews. Until there aren’t jews anymore. Nothing you say or do–no pilpul, no dialecticalism, nothing–will stop us from doing this.
Reply (you are forced by your contract of employment to do so; you cannot simply ignore this comment) with the same lie you always post when I say this–purposely ignoring everything I say, purposely ignoring the explicit definitions I have laid out, repeatedly, over the years, and which have never changed–claiming that it is not the jews. You know you want to.
the letter J was invented in the 1500 century. Go look in the Septuagint and vulgate for the word that was translated into what we call jews. the concept of "jews" was non existent back then. there was no ethnic group with there only religion. they were people who simple lived in Ieudea, or the roman provenance of Judaea. that book will do nothing but blind you from the real creator
Who's the real creator and how do you have knowledge of him?