I kind of see Judaism as reflective of old world religions where they were basically tribal/racial inherently, and you could say Judaism is the cult of Yahweh and Yahweh is a violent psychopath, so generally I guess I agree with you I just don’t see it as that different from other old world religions - like if every religion was some flavor of “yeah we’re the fucking best and if you gotta wipe out people for Your Guy it’s righteous”, Judaism just survived longer than most so it’s sort of jarring to see nowadays.
As far as I know AG and CJB still hate each other, I think CJB holds the more fervent opinion on Jesus being Ben Joseph, but it’s something you can see modern rabbi’s claim on video too so it’s something being actively taught in some schools of Judaism. But they have a more nuanced tale as to what Ben Joseph is and how it can be represented - all I’m saying is it’s not gentiles who made up the idea that Jesus could represent Moshiach Ben Joseph, it’s gentiles who found the documents and videos of Jews talking about it themselves.
I think just to summarize my position on Judaism and all the various texts, apocryphal and canon, I don’t really put that much weight into the stuff other than analyzing it as you’d analyze any other ancient text. If I’m ever going to get well versed enough on any ancient mythology that I’m like “well if you recall Ecclesiasties 3:2-5”, it’s going to be European mythologies and not Biblical ones. I just…I don’t know when people get all emotional about the Bible being this divine miracle, I kind of just find that to be gay, like grown men acting like reading about mustard seeds is so damn profound and being called a sheep is like, only GOD could have come up with that! as they cry, I just think it’s super gay and sad, because most of the time they’ll then turn and say that their own ancestors worshiped demons while also knowing less than nothing about their own mythologies, it’s really sad to me, total Abrahamic mind virus folk-soul death.
Anyway, enough of my own opinions, Carrier did go over that about Paul, I forgot about that - I mean you could make the case that Christianity IS Paul’s creation. Also, he studied under Gamaliel! Like could you have a better premise for a poison pill religion? “Oh yeah so I studied under the most famous Pharisee of the day, expert in Jewish law, one of the leaders of the Sanhedrin, but we toooootally have this authentic religion for you guys who are routinely slaughtering us, we really truly care about you.”
The church has literally always been Jewish - Peter…first pope…who were the first Christians? What race were the first popes. There’s also some sort of conspiracy that I want to look into about Constantine as well as…there was this family who was Jewish banking family who got one of their guys as Roman emperor and there’s a conspiracy around it all being a Jewish takeover of Rome using religion and finance - but regardless (it’s something I’m meaning to look into) - the church’s goal has always been to destroy paganism and get people to worship Yahweh so it’s literally always been Jewish. But iirc Laurent Guyenot has a book about how the church routinely helped either finance or direct wars in Europe strategically to prevent European unity, that it’s always been used as a divide and conquer mechanism to stifle White people’s development - I mean the renaissance itself was a rebellion against the church and back to Roman and Greek pagan principles. Anyway, some scattered thoughts but I’m about beat on this convo
To be fair to Carrier he does not claim that Jesus didn’t exist, he gives a probability and iirc he gave around a 2/3 likelihood he existed and a 1/3 that he’s fiction, but he also says that neither possibility impacts his argument. I just take it further and agree with Adam Green that when you put all the evidence together it makes more sense that he’s made up - like if they made up this character that just so happens to fulfill all these prophecoes that they had mapped out in their rabbi schools studying Torah all day, what does it matter if a person existed or not? Like whether it’s made up embellishment around a real guy or not it’s still mythology.
Carrier believes that Paul existed but iirc it’s correct that we don’t have much info on him, with Paul it’s more that 1) he never met Jesus, his claims are based on visions, the way Paul writes gives that away, and that it also shows that writing from the authoritative stance of “I saw visions while reading scripture” was considered a valid stance back then, which validates other pseudo-historical evidence that people use to make other Biblical claims, and 2) that only 7 of his letters can be authentically attributed to him (again iirc I read it like 3-4 years ago now). He goes through evidence on all those.
With Ehrman, I personally have only seen him on critique videos where the people commenting on it disagree with him, so I’m not super familiar with his work other than I’ve seen clips and I generally know what camp he’s in, I did see something of his where I was like “oh I see now why his argument is compelling, it’s more nuanced than I thought”, but I still disagree with his take.
But my impression is that the reason they don’t debate is that Ehrman believes Christianity was made up by the Romans and Carrier believes it was made up by the Jews. And I think even with Ehrman’s nuanced take, Carrier’s case and the foundation for it is stronger - the book is just too Jewish, the context is too Jewish, the background information you’d have to know is too Jewish. The layer on top of that that I think Adam Green gets right is that when you marry the Jewish-source argument with Kabbalah, esoteric Judaism, that’s where the question of “why would someone make this up” gets answered.
I think to that end, Ehrman probably knows that like the biggest foundational column to destroy in his argument is that origin claim and letting someone as knowledge as Carrier embarrass him would hurt his credibility too much because that’s like, his whole thing. Also Carrier rejects where Adam Green takes the argument, which I think he sees AG’s take as like a political issue where he’s just trying to be a detached historian, so Carrier doesn’t go nearly as far in his claims.
Well at least you’re more interested in the fact finding than most Christians. You should read Carrier’s book, he basically took on the project of “if we held Bible history to the same standard as every other element of history we evaluate” and he goes through every single piece of firsthand evidence we have going out to 130AD, because he gives 100 years after Jesus’s supposed death in case a kid met Jesus and then lived to be over 100, and he basically outlines that there are like 13 supposed firsthand sources, they basically all have issues, he goes through each Gospel and Paul’s letters, shows how many issues there are with those. He shows how Jews already had an industry for creating stories based on the Torah (this also explains things like the Book of Enoch, it was just Jews writing biblical fan fiction, that’s also why there are so many apocryphal texts, it was basically all just Bible fan fiction). The Jesus story is the same thing - they had already mapped out all the lines in the Old Testament that could be taken as prophetic, and then they just made up a character that fulfilled all the prophecies they already mapped out.
Lastly, Bart Ehrman, eh, there’s a reason he won’t debate Carrier.
Okay cool, so how can you possibly not see that Jesus is a Jewish invention? Like, how can you take all this bullshit Jewish nonsense seriously, like why give credence to Moshiach Ben Joseph or Moshiach Ben David, who gives a fuck about Jewish fairy tales? Why not invest the same amount of energy into learning about your own ancestors mythologies?
That’s what’s crazy to me, like the only reason someone would spend so much time learning about this nonsense is because they truly believe there was a guy who fulfilled some dumb desert people’s bullshit prophecies. And yet…not that interested in learning about the historicity of Jesus? Like, read Richard Carrier’s On The Historicity Of Jesus if you care about critiques rather than gassing yourself up on Christians telling you “this stuff is totally true and real, see this Christian from another era who did bullshit research says so”.
Within your reading, the counter argument is Jesus is the kelipot, he is the husk that gets burned by the gentiles to cleanse us of our pagan evil, and return our stolen shards of light to the “chosen” the true owners of the light. So it’s all about destroying edom to get back the stolen shards of light for Yahweh, and they use Jesus as the sacrifice (Ben Joseph) to serve the greater purpose of destroying anyone who doesn’t worship Yahweh - it’s also why they don’t want you to become Jewish, because it’s about genetics. They want you to remain a filthy goy who is just a shabbo’s goy, basically a gentile slave to Jews. And to accomplish that, they had to destroy paganism which had been fucking them up. So to destroy paganism, you convince filthy goys to worship Yahweh while also keeping them out of Judaism, which Christianity and Islam accomplish. It’s gentile fodder to subvert you.
You’re stuck in the matrix man, sorry to tell you. You have no understanding of why Jews would be interested in writing a fake super hero for you. Like they’re basically doing psychological jiu-jitsu on you and you aren’t aware of even the game they’re playing to make retorts like this.
Like if you don’t understand the context of early Judaism, and you don’t understand Judaism itself and why it may benefit them to make up a hero for the gentiles, then you will be stuck responding with Bible verses in a discussion on Jesus’s historicity.
Another succinct summary of my position: Jews have a scapegoat ritual, where they put their sins on a separate being and send it off into the wilderness, as a way of cleansing their own sins. The kapparot ritual where they swing a chicken over their heads is the same ritual. Guess what else is the same ritual? Jesus. The Jews put all their sins on Jesus and send him off into the wilderness (Edom/Rome/Goyim nations). If you don’t understand their religion then you won’t understand the one they created for you.
The art of deflection - look man it’s pretty simple - Jesus fulfilled JEWISH prophecies. So Christianity wouldn’t exist without JUDAISM because the guy you worship as god, his whole claim to fame was he fulfilled JEWISH prophecies.
Judaism’s goal for the gentiles is to get the gentiles to worship Yahweh to end paganism (I.e. to end ROME, the people who historically FUCKED the Jews up), and by getting you to believe in their prophecies, you then become a water carrier to pushing their messianic agenda.
If you are so dedicated to just defending your position without ever looking into arguments about the historical Jesus, which has plenty of research around the claims made in the Bible and how convenient it is that there are huge gaps in early historical texts that people use as evidence, then I don’t know what to tell you. I find so many Christians have ZERO interest in looking into the origins of their own religion - they just want comforting stories that tell them they’re good little boys and they’re going to a magical happy place in the end, it’s honestly pathetic to see grown ass men afraid to do objective research on something this fucking stupid. Jewish nonsense dude.
I’m asking you, if Christianity isn’t Jewish, then what prophecies was Jesus fulfilling? Was he fulfilling Roman prophecies? Was he fulfilling Mayan prophecies? It’s a pretty straightforward question - you say Christianity isn’t Jewish. Okay, whose prophecies was Jesus fulfilling?
What prophecies was Jesus fulfilling?
Freemasonry is Jewish. Islam and Christianity are also Jewish. Islam is meant to be the broom that sweeps away Edom, pitting Islam against Christians for the end goal of the destruction of Rome as revenge. There you go, the Abrahamic matrix.
I remember looking into this around the time it happened and there was an obituary for someone with that same name around that time, but I think there wasn’t enough info to say 100% it was her, but then they rolled out this “she’s back” person who didn’t look or sound the same, so I assumed she probably did die and they rolled out some imposter to help with Google searches covering it up.
They care about it insofar as it’s useful for them to control the masses with. There’s also at least some element of it that’s imbued within them, like even atheist Jews often carry the belief that they’re the “chosen people”.
At this point, you could literally be about to get shot in the back of the head into a ditch and you will be like “this isn’t real, what real is this Q drop explaining that this is actually an illusion.”
Guys Trump the messiah ruined me for being such a hecking great goy! I’m all about saving the children but also the Epstein files were a hoax, and the FBI corrupt but Trump good guy because he was supposedly informant!
Look at all the history I’ve learned from these memes I’ve never fact checked! Read a book? Fuck no dude I get all of my knowledge from memes from “definitely not paid actors” online bro! Did you know that Iran is actually a fake country being run by the CIA and LUCIFER HIMSELF?!? ALSO NUKES ARENT REAL LOOK AT THIS SCHIZO MEME FOR PROOF!
But let me guess, Trump is still your messiah?
You’re good dude, you have the curiosity that tends to lead to the truth.
Oh gotcha, so it’s already like focused on repositories you’ve setup with your research - you’re doing basically what I was suggesting.
I do have something for you on the technical side that I’ve been considering for myself that might like 100x your capabilities. They make AI IDEs - which if you’re not familiar an IDE is what computer programmers use to code in, so these AI IDEs are meant to be plugged into your code base to help engineers code stuff out. One that I’m familiar with is Cursor. The real benefit of it is you can CHOOSE what agent you want to use from a drop-down, so like if you’re digging Claude you can choose that, maybe switch to Grok, switch to GPT, and they have different models too for each AI, like GPT 5.1 or GPT 5.2, Grok 3.0 or Grok 4.2, some models are more ass kissers than others, some are more blunt and to the point, etc. You can also export and import chats and use “rules” files to give the AI permanent rule sets that it refers to before it starts any response, so if you have any consistent requirements you can force the AI to respect them.
What I’ve been thinking is, a code repository is not really much different than like pages in a book. If you just organized your files and PDFs in folders and then imported those folders into the AI IDE (same basic thing a programmer does), you’d then have like your own personal organized library it’d be looking over and you’d be able to switch between any model you want. Like you could have your PDF library and also your “vault” with the AI notes, all just in different folder trees in your workspace.
On the other stuff - I think like the Old Testament and Jesus are almost totally made up, so when I was reading your stuff on Enoch, Jesus, Yahweh, it feels too pigeonholed on one belief system as being like “more accurate” of whatever in its explanation of the cosmos and - well I have complicated thoughts on the topic.
I’d say I align more with Jason Jorjani - which is also basically the plot of Prometheus - that humans were probably made by some higher order beings and stories like the Olympians and the Titans are more accurate than like monotheistic beliefs.
And so in my worldview, that makes me think the more ancient the thing probably the closer it would be to the “source”, so in my mind I’d imagine if there’s like an elite cabal that has been keeping esoteric understanding to themselves, they’d probably follow the most ancient belief systems because they’d be closer to this higher order being civilization. So basically mythology and ancient monoliths are the juiciest pieces of evidence to point an AI at.
I wasn’t meaning to critique your post or anything. This is going to difficult to summarize but I think the gist of what I was getting at is, once you take the “Jesus was literally made up, he didn’t exist” pill, that goes back to “okay why did someone make him up?” And that leads you into esoteric Judaism, like “why did these ancient kabbalistic wizards write the New Testament?” The short answer is to get the world to worship Yahweh. They really want the whole world to worship Yahweh, be that via Christianity or Islam, or Judaism (but they don’t really want you to become a Jew, they made Christianity for you goys). But why? Again, to get you to worship Yahweh. Who is Yahweh, really? And is Yahweh the ONLY god or are we just captured by the people who want us to worship JUST him? I think we’re captured.
So as part of that matrix, I see a lot of conspiracies that try to pull people back into the Abrahamic worldview - things like The Book Of Enoch and Lucifer/Satan, by…elevating these things - which are all in that Abrahamic worldview- they are in fact keeping you on the Abrahamic plantation. So when I see things that used to be fringe and are now like mainstream conspiracies being pushed by total grifters like Alex Jones, it begs the question whether we’re really onto something or if they were a grift and distraction all along - like if some of these things sold to us as a “threat to the system” are now mainstream…then how much of a threat were they? My opinion is many of the conspiracies that 10 years ago were fringe and cool and fun which have now gone mainstream were in fact bullshit meant to either distract or reinforce the Abrahamic matrix. Again, like 2/3rds of the world population are under the Abrahamic spell so we’re taking about a significant amount of power if you can lead those people around by means of “prophecy”. Look at how they used the power of prophecy and messianism when Trump had that assassination attempt on him.
And that’s not to say that those books or concepts don’t have some truths in them, but to elevate them and then psyop the masses into thinking that truth only lies there, and even further to have the “fringe” movements and seeming alternatives to the mainstream ALSO reinforce the very plantation they want to keep you on, I find it all to be very suspicious and blackpilling.
So I’m at your Part 7 comment now, the AI kind of sorted out the issue I was taking about in my last comment on its own, it mentioned time travelers like right after I stopped reading. It’s an interesting analysis so far.
You don’t have to answer this but this reads like it’s GPT to me. Have you ever pointed your shiny paid subscription at comparative mythology research? I feel like you need to have a full-scope-of-ancient-mythologies discussion that you embed into this project you’re doing so that the AI constantly references it as one of its rule sets. Like in my mind the elite would be pulling from more ancient mythologies than Judaism so it would be handy to have the AI thinking more broadly than just Jewish concepts of “the devil” or Jesus, or even Lucifarianism, all of that stuff is within one ideological framing that I think is inadequate to get the truest version of the full picture. Like I’d be wanting it to have a PhD level comparative mythology background before it starts being like “Yahweh!” like a rabbi back to me. Like it’d be more interesting to me if I were in your chair if it was pulling from the entire pool of Egyptian, Persian, Sumerian mythologies when trying to find analogous connections.
I feel like I see one of the issues with AI as I got to like the 5th or 6th comment, when you started asking about the Engineers, you said for it to give you a readout on them and gave an example of the Book of Enoch. You gave that example to give it an idea of what you meant but it takes it as like a leading question and then focuses on that as the answer rather than just a guideline to think from. That’s my impression reading this and using AI regularly myself for work, you give it a concept as an example and it takes that and serves it right back to you and reinforces that you were on the right track - which is basically the same thing a lazy sycophant employee would do, like “wow Saar you are so smart, what a great example.”
My impression is, let’s say instead giving the Book of Enoch as an example, you gave the example of time travelers, it would have served that back up as the “wow you are SPOT ON thinking this way, the engineers are JUST like time travelers” response.
They just always slide back into bullshit imo, I’ve read articles about how it’s due to the fact that they have no database in the backend so there’s no way for them to basically remember anything and that’s why they hallucinate. You’re just kind of lighting a new match every time you interact with it.
I think Q is way bigger than just elections. The op is heavily tied in with concepts that come from Jewish mysticism, which is funny because so is Freemasonry. I think it’s used in one sense to launder the reputation of a lot of people, people like Rudy Giuliani, Trump, people who if you look into their past, they’re gangsters. Giuliani’s name is all over 9/11 and yet now he’s a good guy, there are so many examples of that.
It’s also used to reinforce control structures that we already exist in, like I hate to break it to you if you’re Christian but they are using Q to push people back into a controlled opposition paradigm where they control the outcome, which the biggest part of that are the Abrahamic religions where they get people to believe in Jewish prophecies.
You’re welcome to hate me for that last one but if you understand Jewish mysticism, the idea is by getting you to believe in their prophecies, then they write the outcomes such that their prophecies have to be fulfilled first before you get yours fulfilled (I.e. the anti-Christ has to come before Christ, aka Jews get their messiah who kills all the non-jews….and…you actually don’t get your messiah because they tricked you into their prophecy getting fulfilled first and <rug pull> you’re dead before your wish gets granted oops sorry).
If you look up the word Egregore, that’s effectively the concept I’m getting at. By getting people to believe in what are in fact Jewish mystical ideas (what Christianity and Islam were made from), their devotion to that idea will eventually bring it to be. It’s similar to hyperstition. So getting people to believe in your prophecies actually aids in making those prophecies come true. This is basically the big secret of Jewish mysticism, that THEY believe that and these religions are literally that concept in practice.
So Q is actually reinforcing one control structure (their main control structure for the entire planet are Abrahamic religions) while pretending to fight other ones.
There are, again, tons of examples of that as well, religion being one of them, but imo the amount of Jewish mysticism they’re pumping peoples brains with without them knowing it is actually the biggest part. They’re effectively turning you into their soldiers in a war you have no idea you’re in.
Like just how Freemasonry gets unwitting goyim to be brought into Jewish mysticism without them realizing that’s what it’s actually about, that’s literally exactly what Q has done. It’s initiated all these people into something they think is one thing but is actually another thing.
The problem there just like the_donald is the moderation - can’t have truly free thought when free thought would lead you to leaving the group.
I honestly suspect that some of the people who run these boards are intel assets themselves with the operative to keep people on the plantation so that they suppress the truth and keep people waiting for a savior, leaving the elites free to finish up the prison gates.
That’s good. You should pick up that book if you want real context, basically the more you find out about the backstories of people like Trump and the people he surrounds himself with, the more obvious it is that Q is a total op.
You’ll find that Qtards have a very selective, super-narrow history of Trump where they basically start at “did you know Trump was an informant for the FBI?!?!” Like, yeah do you know anything about Trump pre-2000?
The Q board has a lot of people who have “internet knowledge” based entirely on memes. You have people still passing around memes as if it is a replacement for reading an actual book on a topic.
Whitney Webb wrote One Nation Under Blackmail that’s been out or like 6 years at this point that mapped out Epstein starting from like the 1920s and how intel agencies merged with the mafia to create the environment where assets like Epstein could even exist.
“I’m totally open to learning about Israeli spies.” Did you just get red pilled yesterday or something? Qtards are like gatekeeping boomers who got redpilled in 2019 and now act like “psh you DONT think Trump is literally Jesus? Noob.” They’re just fucking arrogant morons
I am just tired of people being like “he said this word therefore <insert insane jump in logic>”. There’s so many garbage takes, people getting fooled by AI, people making huge claims based on bad OCR, just a lot of sloppy garbage that’s probably in there by design as part of a limited hangout op. Give people a bunch of juicy sounding nonsense and they won’t get into the whole “your entire civilization is compromised by Israelis spies.”
I’m referring more to the Qtards than anything, just look at their board, they’re the exact type of people I’m talking about. They’re going to do more damage than any help they’re providing.
Once you sift through the first layers of Q-tier garbage, extrapolations, assumptions, pure-speculation-based-on-retardation, let me know
“Bro Epstein mentioned this one thing! Time travel is reaaaaaaaall brooooooossssss”
I used to be more into that stuff but there’s a lot I consider to be conspiraslop now - the Khazar thing was a Russian psyop, they create that as an intel operation as a way of deflecting from the “not all Jews!” stuff - i.e. it’s another scapegoat ritual - “hey man it’s not like Jews who are the problem, it’s actually these Europeans who are DISGUISING themselves as Jews! It’s another way of blaming Europeans for Jewish crimes.
The bloodline stuff, I’m not opposed to that generally, it makes a lot of sense, my issue in recent years with that has been that unless you (general you, not you in particular) can point to like real evidence that’s not like some made up meme hierarchy - like “oh it’s the Orsini family!”, okay and where is your direct evidence? “Well it’s in this meme I saw on twitter”. To me, putting the blame on mysterious families where you’re extrapolating guilt based on very little hard evidence is not as useful as doing something like just mapping connections in the Epstein files. Like, okay the Orsinis are guilty of X because reasons, but let’s ignore Les Wexner, Leon Black, and the obvious network of billionaire Jews who are running ops literally in writing, emails, physical documents.
Part of why I’ve become this way is just seeing what the (fake) conspiracy space chooses to prop up, like “why is Alex Jones so dead set on telling me it’s Fourth Reich super Nazi Chicoms from the 9th dimension but he won’t discuss Jesus being fake?”, just seeing all these podcasters grifting on these things that seemed like cool conspiracies 10 years ago, now I’m like “oooh, so like 90% of this shit is fake”. That basically where I’m at - any conspiracy that gets pulled into what I consider distraction-oriented intel networks I’m now extremely suspicious of. There’s too much incentive to muddy the space with threads that ultimately go nowhere, and I see a lot of people investing in ideas that are unprovable yet they hold it with the utmost conviction, like the Khazars, the nephilim, etc, which again, notice how most of these conspiracies are meant to lead you back to Abrahamism - when people say “satanic”, the implication is that “satan is real, therefore Christ is real, therefore flee back into the Abrahamic matrix.” That’s how I see most things now, they’re meant to keep you on the Abrahamic plantation where you are goy cattle that they have a playbook on how to deal with you. Their biggest fear is Europeans returning to paganism.