More psychotic babble
Sounds like you didn’t understand it. When you don’t understand something, try asking questions! (also, take a breath and calm down)
They get all emotional.
Is this your way of telling me you are a flat earther? If not, what is your excuse for being so emotional?
As i said before, there aren’t really any flat earthers. The “people” you’ve interacted with are products and/or agents of a psyop. They are often antagonistic (including emotionally volatile, not unlike yourself) because that is a tactic which stifles communication and collaboration.
Nobody understands you.
When you don’t understand something, rather than resort to childish insult or silly declarations like the above - try asking questions! The more specific the question, the more likely you are to get a specific answer.
You haven't attempted an actual answer or debate
Answer to what?!
As for debate, no - that is base pageantry for morons and is best avoided. I prefer, like all capable students, earnest rational discourse instead.
All i did was respond to correct and clarify some things you said.
Instead you're distorting everything
Don’t generalize. Be specific. Name one thing i distorted (use examples / quotes!) then go from there.
No you are
I am neither emotional, nor compelled to childish vitriol by that emotion. But you evidently are :( It’s very difficult to effectively communicate when you let your emotions control you. Take a breath.
We were discussing the topic
Yes, and one of the things you said while discussing that topic was wrong. It is not wrong/illogical/stupid to assume that because it rains that there must be water up above to fall. It is the complete opposite of that.
Where did the sky ocean, rain, come from, according to them
According to who? If you mean in the biblical view - the answer is obvious.
Not from anything else.
So you want to believe. But that want and belief does not make you correct - for the exact same reasons that theirs doesn’t.
You ignored it and retardedly imagine flat earth
Huh? You seem very confused and are certainly not describing anything i actually said. If you disagree - please provide the quotes of my comments that led you to this (incorrect) conclusion/interpretation so i can explain.
Because there's a sky ocean gonna flood us.
So the bible teaches (though that same bible ostensibly promises that it won’t happen again).
Do you think I am angry typing?
You are (ostensibly) reacting emotionally and compelled irrationally to vitriol by that emotion - whatever you want to call it.
No argument to do with the topic
What are you babbling about? I sincerely can’t tell. Perhaps if you could control your emotion and use your words instead - communication would be possible...
They had no concept of how rain formed it was from the gods judging them
The biblical view was that it came from slits in the sky, which allowed the oceans above to stream down. There are of course, many other ideas in antiquity. But what they generally have in common, is the logic that because water falls from the sky - there must be water up there to fall down. My point was that that logic is as sound then as it is today.
We still have retards today believing in sky oceans.
And if above the sky, there were an ocean - would that make you the retard? In my view, it is belief writ large that is the enemy of knowledge - not the particular belief.
Or Jewish alien space lasers.
I don’t know about the jewish aliens (or space, writ-large) but lasers coming from the sky are entirely real and there is footage available of them in action if you’re interested.
Are they used to start fires? They certainly could be.
Why are fucking retarded?
Why are irrationally angry?
Rain comes from clouds in the sky it doesn't mean there's an Ocean in the sky
Not necessarily (although that is what they thought, and wrote in the bible), but it does mean there is water up there to come down. That was my whole point; that logic is entirely sound - including today.
Superstition
Perhaps, or perhaps history embellished/corrupted by time and the grapevine.
This is why every act of God in the Bible was from nature
I’m not so sure. This is a core modern apologist doctrine. Is resurrection natural? How about parting of the seas, virgin birth, or turning water to wine? How about a staff transforming into a serpent? Does that happen naturally?
You spewing a mythical firmament doesn't mean there's a Flat Earth
I am not spewing anything of the sort. The firmament and the flat earth are plainly described in the bible many times - but i agree that does not make either of them true/real.
I recommend
HyperNormalisation
https://archive.org/details/HyperNormalisation
https://www.bitchute.com/video/ZMUoGgzavvND/
and possibly
Drugs as weapons against us (however be prepared for some of the worst soundtrack ever put on anything)
https://tubitv.com/movies/566779/drugs-as-weapons-against-us (US only, sadly)
https://www.bitchute.com/video/gpXvQfSpSjJP/
Netflix propaganda, but arguably worth a watch.
A decent overview (and product) of the heavily advertised (i.e. heavily funded) flat earth psyop, in any case.
No problem (or obligation to respond!).
It’s a subject i like to discuss and explore/exchange views on, and i’m in no hurry.
Thanks for the update.
Re-read the answers i already gave you to those questions, if you can.
Then ask any followup questions you might have.
Nothing of substance
If direct answers to your questions are nothing of substance, perhaps you are asking the wrong questions (and/or not understanding the answers).
Are you afraid to commit to a testable statement?
Nothing i’ve stated isn’t testable. That’s what makes your wonton and committed ignorance amusing ;)
As predicted you are not giving a distance
Re-read my answer, if you are able.
and you are not providing evidence.
You ignoring the evidence i provide is not the same as not providing it. Reasoning, explanation, and observation are also evidence.
You just make more unsupported claims.
I just try to explain, which you ignore and misunderstand. When you don’t understand, the best thing to begin with is to ask questions!
and it's clear you believe
I work very hard not to believe. Belief is the enemy of knowledge, and to the possibility of objective study of any kind (it’s called bias).
that to hide the obvious nature of the earth, sun and stars wouldn't take conspiracy or motive by the people/species that manage and secure said flat plane containment area with the ice continent surrounding us.
It might require a conspiracy to hide the nature of reality - but not to simply be wrong about it nor to spread those wrong views. Being wrong is the default, and we do it without any help.
As for the ice continent, that is merely a speculation (and one that does not have much support). The world’s shape does not depend on the shape of any continent. It is a popular red herring and erroneous conflation pushed by the flat earth psyop. Antarctica can be the shape and size it is believed by most to be, and the world can still be flat (and vice versa). They have no dependency on one another.
You just think we are so stupid and preoccupied with toil and desires, we haven't figured out that we are on a flat plane.
You misunderstand. The smartest people who have ever lived, including today, were all wrong. Wrong does not equal stupid. There is no shame in being wrong - as i said, it’s our default. Beyond that, stupid is not an archetype, but an aspect of humanity. We are all stupid too.
Most people never give this subject any serious thought at all. They merely believe and repeat as they were conditioned to do, by rote under the guise of education from childhood. You might call that stupid, but i mostly call it gullible/trusting and victimized.
And to further exemplify our extreme difference in world views,
Perhaps. I’m not sure how much our worldviews differ. I expect they are more similar than you currently expect - but i could be wrong, and we are just beginning to exchange them!
Humans are connected to a soul, which is individual and part of infinite love and knowledge.
I don’t discount the possibility/reality of a soul, but if it truly allowed connection to infinite knowledge - i don’t think we would be so consistently wrong all the time. I don’t have this infinite knowledge, and i have never known anyone who did.
No, we don't devole by nature.
I’m not sure on this one (assuming you mean “devolve”). The bible certainly describes it, unambiguously, that way. Adam was perfect and it was all downhill from there (until the blip with jesus, and then right back to downhill again).
In any case, i was not describing “devolution”. I was just saying that by default, we are stupid and wrong as a species and as individuals. We are not preprogrammed with the correct answers - sadly.
THAT is programming YOU have not rejected yet.
What is THAT programming that i have not rejected?
The biggest aspect to cognitive dissonance is the inability to accept new information that would easily dislodge your traditional thought.
Cognitive dissonance doesn’t hinder or prevent new (contradictory or otherwise) knowledge. Cognitive dissonance is itself caused by accepting contradictory knowledge. You are talking about “intellectual inertia”, “conditioning”, “appeal to authority”, “sunken cost”, and the inability to think and learn for themselves (autodidacticism).
This structure was not self developed.
Agreed. That comes from the top down (authoritarian).
But until then, it's hopeless
Perhaps. I think the existence of the heavily advertised (i.e. heavily funded) flat earth psyop itself suggests that it isn’t. The woman doth protest too much.
It is the duty of us who see the truth/have knowledge, to share it with others. There is much work to be done, hope or not.
I guess you will never understand that throwing out claims is not the same as presenting evidence.
I have presented evidence, and provided examples and analogies to help you understand. What you don’t understand is that evidence is trivial, and you have no trouble discarding/ignoring it when you want to. Having evidence isn’t nearly as important as being correct, and being able to validate it. Evidence frequently, perhaps most often, leads to incorrect conclusions.
That's the problem with you flat earthers
There aren’t any flat earthers, just products and/or agents of a heavily advertised (i.e. heavily funded) psyop. You are not talking to them right now. You are talking to me.
You don't know the first thing about how to present an argument.
Personally i avoid argument because it is exclusively for and by idiots hoping to manipulate. I don’t want to convince (i.e. manipulate) you. I want you to understand. I want you to discover for yourself, and to know why you must.
At what distance does the air turn opaque and what evidence do you have for it?
From the top of everest looking straight towards the horizon it is a few hundred miles. At sea level, again looking towards the hozion through the densest and most laden air, it is only a few.
When you make long distance observations of things, you will see a haze/distortion on them caused by the air in between. Ultimately this haze becomes impenetrable, and roughly this is one of the primary causes of the horizon line we see.
The evidence comes from observation, scale testing, and scientific principles (notably optics).
You need to understand that in the context of distant objects no longer being visible - full opacity is not required. As i explained already, it just needs to be opaque enough to prevent the distant light from that object from reaching you and/or becoming drowned out by the local luminosity.
You already know that air isn’t completely transparent, and that light doesn’t travel forever through it as a result. You can do an observation with a large field and a small candle if you have doubts.
So, in your view, you think that if the earth is really flat, and everyone believes it's a globe, would not take effort by a secret organisation to cover up the fact that the earth is actually flat, while also making everyone believe it's a globe.
Correct.
Are you sure about your answer?
I am sure that humanity is always stupid and wrong historically, and requires no help for it. We do it all on our own - no conspiracies necessary.
And it sounds like your mind is made up about this hypothetical question too.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that there couldn’t be or isn’t a conspiracy (unbelievably large/long, or much more limited/small) to do as you suggest - just that one isn’t necessary/needed. If the world were flat and everyone believed it round, that would not require any conspiracy. If stars were not suns, and instead were lights in the sky of a totally different nature - once again, it would require no conspiracy. Humanity is always stupid and wrong, and we consistently teach those wrong and stupid beliefs (under the guise of “fact” and “science” no less), en masse, from childhood.
Wonder how people can recognise signs they are in cognitive dissonance.
Firstly, everyone is - it’s a human characteristic caused by our “rational” minds. Recognizing it is simple, but an objective external analysis can often help to identify it better than we can internally. Cognitive dissonance is simply holding two or more paradoxical/mutually exclusive/contradictory views simultaneously. Nothing more. A common one is believing they are a law abiding citizen and then speeding. Everyone has cognitive dissonance, it is completely painless, and often invisible to the experiencer (without careful introspection, and/or external help).
You think historical record about humanity is correct?
Lol. Of course not. History is largely stories/mythology. However, it is reasonable to both study and learn from it. Are you suggesting that people aren’t most often wrong and stupid (today and/or in the past) without any external help/conspiracy?
And a normal person would probably conclude that in order for everyone to think it's a globe, but it's actually flat, would take considerable programming, propaganda, and cover up
I think they have been encouraged to think such things through advertising and the myth of progress (modernism and modern “education” pushes this vain belief that we are better and smarter now. we simply couldn’t be wrong about such things because we are so evolved and educated compared to our primitive ancestors). What they misunderstand is that every generation has thoughts like this, and believes they have the truth with very little, if any doubt. That is always the norm, and they are always wrong. If they don’t have an answer, they make one up - the basis of almost all mythology, a lot of which is masquerading as science today. This biological proclivity is connected to that cognitive dissonance. What we cannot rationalize, the brain requires rationalization for, so we “fill in the gaps” with just about anything in order to feel better about our ignorance. This very much includes things which contradict other things we already believe/know.
At a massive level, because you have to cool so many people about something totally obvious and core to our daily experience.
It reminds me of a twain quote and a song lyric with a similar message : “You’ve been educated stupid. And are too dumb to notice. Or maybe just too evil to care.”
We believe LOTS of nonsense as a result of that “education” (really conditioning, by rote, under the guise of education - from childhood), but it also doesn’t really require a conspiracy. People (most of them anyway) teach what they believe (even and perhaps especially when wrong) primarily because they believe it.
So, with that level of manipulation, wouldn't it also be possible to fool you into believing historical records, into believing humanity is the cause for the wars and terror.
Absolutely. And this unquestionably goes on - seen contemporarily and historically. However, it doesn’t - in and of itself - require a conspiracy concerning the shape of the world.
If the earth is flat, it would change everything about how you see the world.
It certainly can, arguably should - but in my view it does not necessarily involve mass conspiracy. Claims of it requiring mass conspiracy/ being “conspiracy theory” are pushed, disingenuously by the heavily advertised (i.e. heavily funded) flat earth psyop specifically to suppress and prevent people from seriously discussing/researching the valuable subject. Claims of “conspiracy theory” only have that one purpose - discrediting/suppression.
The shape of the world is not a conspiracy, nor is one required for most everyone to be wrong about it. Claims of conspiracy are primarily a distraction from an extremely valuable subject to study.
show that air turns opaque beyond a certain distance.
You see it all the time. It’s the blue sky during the day, the black sky at night, and the horizon itself.
It’s not only air’s opacity at play, but also relative luminosity. The most common example is the stars during the daytime. Because air is NOT transparent, the light scattered by the air closer to you is bright enough to drown out the light from the distant objects.
This happens both when you look straight up, and when you look towards the horizon; however when you look towards the horizon you are looking through a lot more air and the effect is more pronounced as a result.
Air’s opacity is a primary reason that light can’t and doesn’t travel forever. Distant light from objects can’t reach you anymore because it is absorbed/diffracted/blocked by the air in the way. The more of that air, the higher the opacity, until it is effectively opaque. Simple, right?
Air and water are different substances
True, but they both behave as fluids and have remarkably similar properties. For example, if they were very different pascal’s law ought not work for gas - as it is far more compressible than liquid - yet in most instances it does. This is one example of many.
Your argument is nonsensical.
It’s not an argument. It is a simple analogy to help you understand. I see you are committed not to, and i cannot (and would not if i could) force you to learn anything.
Of course, clear glass is opaque.
Yes, of course it is (in the same way we are figuratively using the word opaque to mean translucent). Transparent isn’t really a thing in reality. Most everything we consider transparent is in fact translucent, and a thicker layer of it will be - effectively - opaque. Why you don’t want to know this easily demonstrable fact is intriguing to me. I think it should intrigue you as well.
Imagine for a second, the earth really is flat. It would take a huge cover up, right?
Not in my view, no.
Humanity requires no help (grand conspiracy or otherwise) to be consistently wrong and stupid, as it historically always is.
Rains come from the sky, I know it must have water in it.
Not.
That is correct - including today. Wether you believe that water is coming from gods tear ducts or the slits/vaults in the sky letting the heavenly oceans flow down doesn’t change the soundness of the (simple) logic.
I hate dumb Flat Earthers. Hate their stupidity. They are so utterly dumb.
You are intended to. The heavily advertised (i.e. funded) flat earth psyop presents them as offensively stupid so that you will never seriously consider/research the valuable subject. In reality, only a very small percentage of humanity is as ostensibly stupid as the common “flat earthers”; that we are intended to believe are both real and common. They are neither.
It's almost laughable at the obvious autism.
Exactly as contrived and advertised by the psyop.
You can observe gravity. Therefore there is gravity.
True. Gravity is a scientific law, millennia old. It is the phenomenon of falling, nothing more. Now gravitation - that is a very different matter and only a few centuries old.
In science you always start with an observation, then you develop a hypothesis and then you verify it through experiments and formulate a conclusion.
Spot on. Though what an experiment is, how it works, and what constitutes a valid hypothesis are woefully misunderstood. Scientific illiteracy is ubiquitous.
For example, you think there is an experiment which confirms the hypothesis for how gravitation causes gravity - but there isn’t and never was.
For example, you claim that air gets opaque beyond a certain distance. That claim is not based on any kind of observation or evidence
Of course it is. The question you should be asking is why you don’t want it to be true. The air is opaque (technically translucent; ultimately effectively opaque when there is enough of it) for the same reasons the water is. Why cant you see the shark swimming out in the ocean from underwater near the shore? It’s too far away, and the water is opaque (ultimately/effectively). That’s the reason sharks “see” by their skin - they get much better range that way.
Unfortunately, I already know that you won;t understand what I just explained and will most likely just reply with another video.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with videos (or any media, including text) - but i also prefer discussion and more or less ignore the videos (because they most often just waste time).
If some ancient Greek could do it over 2000 years ago, why can't you?
That’s just it. They couldn’t and didn’t. We were just mistaught that they could/did. The ancient greeks simply guessed.
I bet you felt very enlightened writing this.
I don’t choose to discuss rather than argue like a fool to feel enlightened. I do it to avoid being foolish, wasting time, and manipulating others! Argument is for idiots. It isn’t a path to enlightenment, and i am not sharing this fact with you to feel better about myself.
Capable students avoid base argument/debate (because it is a foolish, and self indulgent as well as manipulative, waste of time) and instead focus on earnest rational discourse and rigorous research. I encourage all to be better students.
you are not able and willing to have a discussion
Lol. I created an entire community here explicitly because i am especially willing (and able, besides) to have discussions on this subject. What i won’t have are debates/arguments.
You're just another flat earther who has no argument or evidence and hides behind bullshit excuses.
Says the coward running away from the conversation :(
You would do well to consider why you so desperately want/need this to be true. It will help you identify your bias, so that you can work to countermand/suppress it.
There are no flat earthers, just products and agents of a heavily advertised (i.e. funded) psyop. You are not talking to them right now. You are talking to me.
There is plenty of evidence to discuss, when and if you are ever ready. I am not going anywhere, and there is a whole community i created here for you to ask questions, levy criticisms, and otherwise exchange your views with others.
Just like I predicted.
You can pat yourself on the back and declare yourself “right”/“the winner” alone in a room offline.
I want to discuss it here.
I don’t think that is true. I think you want to “ask” disingenuous “questions” for rhetorical purpose only and have no genuine interest in discussing or understanding the existing answers to them. If I am wrong, then what do you care where the discussion occurs?
Are you just promoting your shitty website here
Lol, it’s a community on THIS site specifically for conversations like this. You can browse the existing conversations (this topic has been discussed many times, and all the answers to your questions are already there), or create a new one.
The benefit is that there are other earnest researchers who - now and in the future - may be interested in seeing and/or contributing their perspectives to your question(s).
Either provide arguments or shut up.
Lol. Arguments are for fools. Rational discourse and rigorous research are, instead, for the learned.
I have no arguments, only my research (which includes answers to your questions).
The answer to your latest question is weight. Understanding that answer will take further discussion, which is better served on a forum specifically for such discussions (i.e. flatearthresearch).
A globe earth easily explains freefall.
In your learned beliefs, arguably. But even in those learned beliefs, the world does not need to be spherical in order for things to fall. Things fall, regardless of what the shape of the world is. That is true in your view, and in mine.
How does flat earth explain freefall without invoking magic?
As i recommended initially, if you are earnestly interested in answers to questions like this - please join us on flatearthresearch to discuss/explore them! It is actually your worldview that invokes magic to explain freefall, but i know you can’t/won’t recognize that currently.
“Flat earth” is not a person or a thing - it doesn’t say/explain anything. Flat earth researchers have varying explanations for freefall, and none of them that i have encountered so far involve magic.
You are almost there.
Lol, says the person that thinks falling is motionless. Hydrostatics is the study of water at rest, not falling.
How can it be in freefall in orbit if the earth is flat?
Freefall demonstrably does exist, and it does not depend on the earth being any particular shape. Your belief that it does is a learned/encouraged bias.
What force is applied to water in zero gravity?
Leaving aside the fact that zero gravity is a misnomer/misunderstanding, the answer is air pressure.
How is water in zero gravity "falling"?
Because “zero gravity” is not a thing. The water in the video is in freefall (even if you believe in orbit) and still very much under the force of gravitation (to use your parlance).
Think very carefully about your answer. You are almost there.
Practice what you preach! If you earnestly care to learn, you’ll get there eventually.
I get it. You’re emotional and now butthurt simply because i noticed and told you so :(
Here’s another approach. Calm down, get a handle on your emotions, and use your words to actually communicate instead of reflexively gripe/bitch/insult.
Says the person that deludedly thinks they are talking to anyone but that “retard”. Who do you think is reading this? It’s just us here dude. No one else cares. Addressing your imaginary “chorus” is borderline crazy.
Just because you struggle with reading comprehension, doesn’t mean everyone else does. As i said, if you don’t understand - don’t pout, don’t gripe; just ask questions and i’m happy to help if i can.
That’s mostly true. I just talked about your original comment and the mistakes/misunderstandings in it. The rest has been you spazzing out, and me retardedly trying to help you calm down and understand what i said.
True. Argument is for manipulation, and i don’t want to manipulate/convince you.
I clarified that the logic of “It’s raining, so there has to be water up there in the sky” is a perfectly reasonable and sound logical assessment. I also clarified that there are no “flat earthers” the way you have been convinced there are by a heavily advertised psyop.
Did you notice that in all your fragmented, repetitive rambling and ad hominem you never once asked a question? When you don’t understand - ask questions!