I posted it because you're Orthodox and I thought it would annoy you if I put up how the Orthodox church operates.
You mean I'd be annoyed at idiot Protestant strawmen of what the Church teaches? Not in the slightest. I won't even engage with this stuff.
The conspiracy is that your beloved Church conspired together to gain control over people through spiritual and political means by proclaiming themselves as some kind of divine authority bearing the word of God. That's a pretty big conspiracy. People should hear about how your group operates and learn the tactics to avoid being brainwashed by them or other groups doing similar stuff.
Well, now that the Church is not in control and governments are secular things must be going great in the NWO, right?
Did I address any point of your OP? I'm addressing your comments on meta stuff.
Things are going great in the manner that your Church can't play tyrant over people anymore. Better to have issues and strife and personal religious freedom than live in luxury and be slaves of your cult.
Translation: I'd rather have illuminists talmudic child fuckers who push marxism, feminism and skittles and want to depop, poison and enslave everyone under an one world technocratic government than a Christian monarchy built around Christian values where usury and debt slavery is forbidden, 30% of women are not social media prostitutes and people who believe there are more than two sexes or that pee-pees going into poo-poos is love go to the madhouse (or rather to a monastery to get healed).
Yes I would rather people have personal freedom like the freedom of religion and speech, and people be able to do what they want as long as they aren't violating the rights of others.
Oh, you're libertarian, cool. Why should people care about NAP? What's wrong with violating the rights of others, given that rights themselves don't exist ontologically but are made up social constructs that are subject to change? Is this like your personal preference or is it objectively true that rights should be respected?
You still haven't answered the elephant in the room. Would you kill me in the name of your God if you could legally get away with it?
Wtf does that mean? I wont kill you without good reason of course.
Sure thing. If you were good faith, you'd look up an Orthodox source on the matter and not someone who seeks to strawman and undermine the position like you do. You presuppose the Church is corrupt and they made shit up as part of a huge conspiracy. Everything you read will be interpreted through that lens and you twist everything you read to fit your narrative. There's no point in arguing with you.
Dude, I've had this argument hundreds of times including on this forum. I'm not in the mood for writing apologetic arguments that will be rejected on principle. It's not worth the investment. Information is out there, I'm not going to say something new. Believe what you want.
You have no any clue about Orthodox Church and how things really are. :)
First, they state that they are the one true church because they hold the line of Apostolic succession.
Apostolic sccession is necessary, but not "first" or even "most important". It is much better and many things are easier when you have it, but Orthodox Christianity have a special workflow exactly for situaltions when Apostolic saccession is lost for whatever reason.
There is many Orthodox Churches, if you are not aware, even here we have two. Both True. Add to this Greek, Serbian, Romanian, American, Alexandrian, Cyprus and so on. All that Churches accounted as equal True Christian churches by each other, being different with their own hierarchy.
Russian Orthodox Church had a schism half millenia ago, when patriarch decided to adjust some service details with Greek Orthodox Church. Old Russian Orthodox Church that didn't accept this changes lost Apostolic succession few centuries later. However it was still accounted as True Church, all things like baptism, euharistia, weddings, burials of Old Orthodox was accepted by Orthodox mainstream. Later, Apostolic succession of Old Orthodox was restored by mainstream Russian Orthodoxy, and now Russian Old Orthodox Church have full Apostolic succession again.
The Orthodox claims the rightful line of Apostolic succession because they have not apostatized. And because the other churches have apostatized, they are not the True Church.
Great Schism started a massive process of creation of apostatic Churches. Rome decided that it have a right to change Christianity on its will, as they needed. Up to inventing Pope and declaring his speech as God's one.
But how do we know that those other churches have apostatized and not the Orthodox Church?
Orthodox Church is just mathematically least square estimate to the original Christ teachings. That's all. We use original Old and New Testament texts word-to-word translated into ancient Russian millenia ago, which is still used even for all services, and all pre Great schism things agreed on at World Councils are unchanged. This is much more important than even Apostolic succession.
He works only in their lives, and gives them the truth by experience.
You have no idea of what Orthodox Christianity is about and what we believe in.
Well, in short Christianity is a user manual for your soul given to you by Christ. Just like with user manual for your vacuum cleaner given to you by manufacturer, if you began to change existing parts of it or invent new ones, then your vacuum cleaner will work in ineffective way, could break completely or even cause a disaster in your house. If you invent your own user manual for your vacuum cleaner, then manufacturer can't guarantee your vacuum cleaner efficiency and ability to work as promised. No warranty repairs, no spare parts and so on. Further your version of user manual (Christianity) from original manufacturer (God) edition, less efficiency your soul have, up to complete malfunctioning or even destruction.
You could easily observe exactly that by yourself all over the world. Countries with prevalent Orthodox Christianity are much less poisoned with all that satanic perversions like LGBTXYZ idiocy, money (Mammona) worshipping, arrogance, ignorance, greed and so on. And even more important thing is a Christian population attitude to all that shit. If an average Christian accept 100500 genders in his country, think he have a right to judge and preach other nations or doesn't account stock gambling as something dirty - then his Church is definitely far from True one.
Original user manual objectively works much better than any other "customized" version.
I didn't replied to you personally, just explained some obvious things that people don't know about.
You say apostolic succession is necessary ... You blatantly contradicted yourself.
It is just one of many components. You could have apostolic succession, but have absolutely nothing with Christianity. And on the opposite, even without apostolic succession you could still have True Church. Without apostolic succession you can't receive grace in full, which make much harder to keep your soul healthy.
Hence, why Christianity is a faith.
Faith have to be logical and provable inside itself. Otherwise it is not a faith it is a cult.
IDK, what example you could understand. In a car, alternator is a necessary part. But you still could drive a car without alternator for some time using battery. Same here.
Church could lose apostolic succession for multiple reasons, but if it will not be restored, this church will eventually degrade to what we see in Rome now. That does not mean that apostolic asuccession prevent degradation.
Car could have perfectly working alternator, but completely broken engine.
Church also have to had "alternator and a place for it" in the first place. You can't create a Church without apostolic succession. Since there is no any apostoles currently around, creation of a new Church is not possible.
Church is a car that could drive you to salvation, if you will use it according to original user manual. It is a long road, you have to fill tank, replace brake pads, fix broken parts and change tires, oil, brake fluid and so on. Only if you do all of that things, not ones you want, but all of them, you will be able to reach your destination far away. You will not be able to reach destination if you don't have alternator, or tires, or transmission, or engine. You will not able to reach destination if you don't dare to fix broken parts.
Hope this analogy is simple enough to get what is Church, and why old Orthodox car, being older than all other, newer shiny and comfortable ones, still running fine and with highest probability will reach its destination with as many passengers as would choose to join.
But that's exactly what your Church is founded on.
It is a blatant lie. Russian Orthodox Church is one of direct descendants of Bizantine Church, which was founded by Apostole Andrey. Apostolic sucession of Russian Orthodox Church is perfectly documented right to Apostole Andrey. You could track any priest of Russian Orthodox Church, Old russian Orthodox Church and Russian Orthodox Church Abroad right to the hand of Apostole Andrey. Same with all other existing Orthodox Churches.
If you don't know such basic thing about Orthodox Church, then why did you started this topic in the first place?
Number implies the designation of a unit/unus (one)...so only if one counts one another does one error/err (wander off).
the whole of this church
Church/kyrios/keue (to swell) implies a partial within whole, enabled to swell and shrink.
The first and ultimate question
First and ultimate implies solution to any question or answer shaped within.
apostate
Apo (away) state (form) aka formed (life) away (inception towards death). Apo represents cause; state implies effect.
In the christian context: Apo represents God; state represents each Christ. The conflict of reason (apostate vs loyalist) represents a jewish deception to tempt gentiles to turn against one another, while confining self to circular logic.
unbroken line
Only within a line (inception towards death) can there be a break (life). Living implies being given a break from dying.
First, they state that they are the one...
God implies first...any state within implies second/seco (to divide).
free and personal
Free implies each instruments free will of choice.
Per-son-al implies by the sound of all.
Why...right and wrong?
Because choosing either side confines ones mind to circular logic (right or wrong), which turns outwardly into a conflict of reason (right vs wrong), while one ignores right/reg (to move in a straight line) and wrong/wer (to turn).
Nature only moves in a straight line (inception towards death), which gives each being (life) the free will of choice to turn against one another by ignoring natural for artificial.
Final Authority
Fin (end) al (all)...all doesn't end. Only within all can each one (life) have a beginning (inception) and end (death). All authorizes/aug (to increase) each one.
tautological
Tauto (same) logic (logic) al (all)...all implies same (cause) for each different one (effect) within. Others suggest logic (circle) to tempt one to ignore cause>effect (line).
Only within a line can a circle be drawn aka only within motion (inception towards death) can matter (life) be shaped.
Only within right can one shape pluralism (we), dualism (both) and denialism (wrong) to distract one another.
how is Orthodoxy right?
Ortho (straight) doxy (to take)...ortho implies right/reg (move in a straight line); doxy implies each ones free will of choice to take the wrong (circular) way.
"CIRCLES AND 'CIRCULAR' ARE EVIL AND BAD AND I HATE AND AVOID THEM!!!!!"
a) Circle/kikel/kike...
b) What's the narrative given for the "kike" slur? Ellis Island... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kike So drawing a circle to rebel against the cross aka being (life) moved a-cross (inception towards death) aka circular rebellion against linear progression.
Now ask yourself why New York has an ELLIS (eliyahu; my god is yahweh) island, and why migrants would rebel entering the land of the free?
The letter O is circular too
Letter implies ones use of free will of choice to LET another shape LETTERS into artificial words, while ignoring that motion>momentum (balance)>matter (choice) implies linear progression...not circular logic about suggested logos (words).
in every reply I can find
a) Reply implies each...not every.
b) Reply implies a reaction; find (foundation) implies action. Whatever a being seeks to find...nature implies the foundation to find everything offered. The issue is that each being can be deceived with findings from one another, which implies a fief/feud - "possession, holding, domain; feudal duties, payment"
your very name
a) Name/nombre/number implies designation of a unit/unus - "one"...there can be only one, no matter how many names one attaches to oneself.
b) Notice that "free-will-of-choice" doesn't represent ones name, but ones free will of choice to name/label/brand. That's why going against someone called "free-will-of-choice" always backfires against oneself.
the word "choice"
Choosing the word (suggested), while ignoring sound (perceivable)...binds ones choice to a chosen one.
it is disappointing to find its scholarship rather weak and misguided
That only means you haven't found their scholarship.
Case in point:
While we can agree that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth (Jn. 16:13), the Orthodox believe that He works only in their lives
This is ignorance, plain and simple. You have learned exactly nothing, and have no business forming an opinion on the topic. Nothing else you might have to say is worth reading.
The only thing you can learn now is that you have an evil heart, and God also has the solution for this:
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh" (Ezekiel 36:26)
Also:
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." (John 15:5)
That's your problem right there. In many different ways God tells us the same things, hoping that one way or another we might get it.
All your attempts to play internet gotcha with the Most High will fail, but the time to do that is NOW; get all the nonsense out of your system. You must do that before you can ever learn of Him. The only variable is how much you have to suffer first.
No, you can't "prove" any religion empirically. That would be science which, while being well suited to dealing with the physical universe, is completely useless in dealing with questions like "how should I live my life?" or "what is Good?"
If you can prove something, faith is nonsensical. I don't believe that objects accelerate due to gravity (within a myriad of qualifiers) because I don't need to, I can prove it experimentally.
I believe that it is Good to honour my race (although not, perhaps, as the highest goal) and no amount of evidence can change that.
What's with the attacks against Orthodoxy all of a sudden? All this came shortly after the neocons like Rep. Joe Wilson went against it publicly for being tied to Russian espionage: https://www.christianpost.com/news/gop-lawmaker-faces-backlash-over-comment-about-orthodox-churches.html
How come you joined a year ago, sat on it with zero activity, and started spamming this forum 2 days ago, shill?
Let's cut to the chase here, because it's not a theology forum but a conspiracy one.
OP's also been insulting Catholics. He'll probably get around to attacking Protestants before the week's out.
Yes, he's definitely going against Christians, especially those who claim to be the rightful Church.
You mean I'd be annoyed at idiot Protestant strawmen of what the Church teaches? Not in the slightest. I won't even engage with this stuff.
Well, now that the Church is not in control and governments are secular things must be going great in the NWO, right?
Did I address any point of your OP? I'm addressing your comments on meta stuff.
Translation: I'd rather have illuminists talmudic child fuckers who push marxism, feminism and skittles and want to depop, poison and enslave everyone under an one world technocratic government than a Christian monarchy built around Christian values where usury and debt slavery is forbidden, 30% of women are not social media prostitutes and people who believe there are more than two sexes or that pee-pees going into poo-poos is love go to the madhouse (or rather to a monastery to get healed).
Yes. I know that.
Oh, you're libertarian, cool. Why should people care about NAP? What's wrong with violating the rights of others, given that rights themselves don't exist ontologically but are made up social constructs that are subject to change? Is this like your personal preference or is it objectively true that rights should be respected?
Wtf does that mean? I wont kill you without good reason of course.
I'm not bothered at all. I'm just exposing your suspicious activity.
Sure thing. If you were good faith, you'd look up an Orthodox source on the matter and not someone who seeks to strawman and undermine the position like you do. You presuppose the Church is corrupt and they made shit up as part of a huge conspiracy. Everything you read will be interpreted through that lens and you twist everything you read to fit your narrative. There's no point in arguing with you.
Dude, I've had this argument hundreds of times including on this forum. I'm not in the mood for writing apologetic arguments that will be rejected on principle. It's not worth the investment. Information is out there, I'm not going to say something new. Believe what you want.
Have you ever considered posting on c/evidencedump?
Not how this works.
Try kindergarten.
You have no any clue about Orthodox Church and how things really are. :)
Apostolic sccession is necessary, but not "first" or even "most important". It is much better and many things are easier when you have it, but Orthodox Christianity have a special workflow exactly for situaltions when Apostolic saccession is lost for whatever reason.
There is many Orthodox Churches, if you are not aware, even here we have two. Both True. Add to this Greek, Serbian, Romanian, American, Alexandrian, Cyprus and so on. All that Churches accounted as equal True Christian churches by each other, being different with their own hierarchy.
Russian Orthodox Church had a schism half millenia ago, when patriarch decided to adjust some service details with Greek Orthodox Church. Old Russian Orthodox Church that didn't accept this changes lost Apostolic succession few centuries later. However it was still accounted as True Church, all things like baptism, euharistia, weddings, burials of Old Orthodox was accepted by Orthodox mainstream. Later, Apostolic succession of Old Orthodox was restored by mainstream Russian Orthodoxy, and now Russian Old Orthodox Church have full Apostolic succession again.
Great Schism started a massive process of creation of apostatic Churches. Rome decided that it have a right to change Christianity on its will, as they needed. Up to inventing Pope and declaring his speech as God's one.
Orthodox Church is just mathematically least square estimate to the original Christ teachings. That's all. We use original Old and New Testament texts word-to-word translated into ancient Russian millenia ago, which is still used even for all services, and all pre Great schism things agreed on at World Councils are unchanged. This is much more important than even Apostolic succession.
You have no idea of what Orthodox Christianity is about and what we believe in.
Well, in short Christianity is a user manual for your soul given to you by Christ. Just like with user manual for your vacuum cleaner given to you by manufacturer, if you began to change existing parts of it or invent new ones, then your vacuum cleaner will work in ineffective way, could break completely or even cause a disaster in your house. If you invent your own user manual for your vacuum cleaner, then manufacturer can't guarantee your vacuum cleaner efficiency and ability to work as promised. No warranty repairs, no spare parts and so on. Further your version of user manual (Christianity) from original manufacturer (God) edition, less efficiency your soul have, up to complete malfunctioning or even destruction.
You could easily observe exactly that by yourself all over the world. Countries with prevalent Orthodox Christianity are much less poisoned with all that satanic perversions like LGBTXYZ idiocy, money (Mammona) worshipping, arrogance, ignorance, greed and so on. And even more important thing is a Christian population attitude to all that shit. If an average Christian accept 100500 genders in his country, think he have a right to judge and preach other nations or doesn't account stock gambling as something dirty - then his Church is definitely far from True one.
Original user manual objectively works much better than any other "customized" version.
I didn't replied to you personally, just explained some obvious things that people don't know about.
It is just one of many components. You could have apostolic succession, but have absolutely nothing with Christianity. And on the opposite, even without apostolic succession you could still have True Church. Without apostolic succession you can't receive grace in full, which make much harder to keep your soul healthy.
Faith have to be logical and provable inside itself. Otherwise it is not a faith it is a cult.
Yes, it is necessary.
IDK, what example you could understand. In a car, alternator is a necessary part. But you still could drive a car without alternator for some time using battery. Same here.
Church could lose apostolic succession for multiple reasons, but if it will not be restored, this church will eventually degrade to what we see in Rome now. That does not mean that apostolic asuccession prevent degradation.
Car could have perfectly working alternator, but completely broken engine.
Church also have to had "alternator and a place for it" in the first place. You can't create a Church without apostolic succession. Since there is no any apostoles currently around, creation of a new Church is not possible.
Church is a car that could drive you to salvation, if you will use it according to original user manual. It is a long road, you have to fill tank, replace brake pads, fix broken parts and change tires, oil, brake fluid and so on. Only if you do all of that things, not ones you want, but all of them, you will be able to reach your destination far away. You will not be able to reach destination if you don't have alternator, or tires, or transmission, or engine. You will not able to reach destination if you don't dare to fix broken parts.
Hope this analogy is simple enough to get what is Church, and why old Orthodox car, being older than all other, newer shiny and comfortable ones, still running fine and with highest probability will reach its destination with as many passengers as would choose to join.
It is a blatant lie. Russian Orthodox Church is one of direct descendants of Bizantine Church, which was founded by Apostole Andrey. Apostolic sucession of Russian Orthodox Church is perfectly documented right to Apostole Andrey. You could track any priest of Russian Orthodox Church, Old russian Orthodox Church and Russian Orthodox Church Abroad right to the hand of Apostole Andrey. Same with all other existing Orthodox Churches.
If you don't know such basic thing about Orthodox Church, then why did you started this topic in the first place?
Holding onto faith contradicts pass-ion (passing action).
Number implies the designation of a unit/unus (one)...so only if one counts one another does one error/err (wander off).
Church/kyrios/keue (to swell) implies a partial within whole, enabled to swell and shrink.
First and ultimate implies solution to any question or answer shaped within.
Apo (away) state (form) aka formed (life) away (inception towards death). Apo represents cause; state implies effect.
In the christian context: Apo represents God; state represents each Christ. The conflict of reason (apostate vs loyalist) represents a jewish deception to tempt gentiles to turn against one another, while confining self to circular logic.
Only within a line (inception towards death) can there be a break (life). Living implies being given a break from dying.
God implies first...any state within implies second/seco (to divide).
Because choosing either side confines ones mind to circular logic (right or wrong), which turns outwardly into a conflict of reason (right vs wrong), while one ignores right/reg (to move in a straight line) and wrong/wer (to turn).
Nature only moves in a straight line (inception towards death), which gives each being (life) the free will of choice to turn against one another by ignoring natural for artificial.
Fin (end) al (all)...all doesn't end. Only within all can each one (life) have a beginning (inception) and end (death). All authorizes/aug (to increase) each one.
Tauto (same) logic (logic) al (all)...all implies same (cause) for each different one (effect) within. Others suggest logic (circle) to tempt one to ignore cause>effect (line).
Only within a line can a circle be drawn aka only within motion (inception towards death) can matter (life) be shaped.
Right/reg (to move in a straight line)... https://www.etymonline.com/word/right
Only within right can one shape pluralism (we), dualism (both) and denialism (wrong) to distract one another.
Ortho (straight) doxy (to take)...ortho implies right/reg (move in a straight line); doxy implies each ones free will of choice to take the wrong (circular) way.
"CIRCLES AND 'CIRCULAR' ARE EVIL AND BAD AND I HATE AND AVOID THEM!!!!!"
The letter O is circular too. Yet in every reply I can find an O or ten. Your very name has an "o" (the word "choice") in it.
a) Circle/kikel/kike...
b) What's the narrative given for the "kike" slur? Ellis Island... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kike So drawing a circle to rebel against the cross aka being (life) moved a-cross (inception towards death) aka circular rebellion against linear progression.
Now ask yourself why New York has an ELLIS (eliyahu; my god is yahweh) island, and why migrants would rebel entering the land of the free?
Letter implies ones use of free will of choice to LET another shape LETTERS into artificial words, while ignoring that motion>momentum (balance)>matter (choice) implies linear progression...not circular logic about suggested logos (words).
a) Reply implies each...not every.
b) Reply implies a reaction; find (foundation) implies action. Whatever a being seeks to find...nature implies the foundation to find everything offered. The issue is that each being can be deceived with findings from one another, which implies a fief/feud - "possession, holding, domain; feudal duties, payment"
a) Name/nombre/number implies designation of a unit/unus - "one"...there can be only one, no matter how many names one attaches to oneself.
b) Notice that "free-will-of-choice" doesn't represent ones name, but ones free will of choice to name/label/brand. That's why going against someone called "free-will-of-choice" always backfires against oneself.
Choosing the word (suggested), while ignoring sound (perceivable)...binds ones choice to a chosen one.
That only means you haven't found their scholarship.
Case in point:
This is ignorance, plain and simple. You have learned exactly nothing, and have no business forming an opinion on the topic. Nothing else you might have to say is worth reading.
You assume much, and know little.
"When the student is ready, the teacher appears."
The only thing you can learn now is that you have an evil heart, and God also has the solution for this:
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh" (Ezekiel 36:26)
Also:
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." (John 15:5)
That's your problem right there. In many different ways God tells us the same things, hoping that one way or another we might get it.
All your attempts to play internet gotcha with the Most High will fail, but the time to do that is NOW; get all the nonsense out of your system. You must do that before you can ever learn of Him. The only variable is how much you have to suffer first.
"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said"
You're only repeating satan's words after him. You have much to learn ...
Ima stop you right there.
No, you can't "prove" any religion empirically. That would be science which, while being well suited to dealing with the physical universe, is completely useless in dealing with questions like "how should I live my life?" or "what is Good?"
If you can prove something, faith is nonsensical. I don't believe that objects accelerate due to gravity (within a myriad of qualifiers) because I don't need to, I can prove it experimentally.
I believe that it is Good to honour my race (although not, perhaps, as the highest goal) and no amount of evidence can change that.