I'm quoting Jesus. They "say they are Jews, and are not". He being Jewish was allowed to comment on what all Jewish tradition had held (that the uncircumcised are not Jewish). You don't get to judge the self-identified Jews from outside any more than you permit them to judge your identity from outside. Pretty simple. If they are united in polity and history there's no evidence they're not a branch of the same Ioudaios people Jesus was from. Nobody except Joe is even attempting to justify the althist. It's all a big larp that falls apart like a spiderweb when touched.

the Orthodox and the Catholic position is not the same

For a millennium it was held that the miaphysite position was not the same as Orthodoxy and then finally we agreed that the words were different but the core meaning was the same. Do you want me to show that? After long consideration I hold that the filioque is ultimately semantic, that in one sense the Spirit "proceeds" from the Son and in another sense he doesn't, and that this does not offend any Orthodox tradition.

I also see nothing in the Bible (or tradition) that says apostolic tradition must only flow through those titled "bishops" and not through other appointed overseers like doctors. The word "bishop" is now more refined than the Biblical word for "overseer".

There are many members in Christ's body. Members can mean both churches and individuals. Since you admit the thief, you admit God works when and where he pleases as a Reformed confession says, and it doesn't contradict One Body. Also, I find much OT example, biggest being Israel-Judah, of God using division to achieve his purposes (not to mention Jew-Gentile in Romans 11).

So you're holding out for filioque, succession, and hierarchical unity. After much past consideration of the accessible material, I concluded that these are ultimately semantic and as wasteful as arguments like infralapsarian vs. supralapsarian. The bridge-builder is capable of seeing both sides and identifying the semantic point that unifies them. The only thing holding back is the inaccessible material, namely the reservations that Orthodox, Catholic, or Protestant leaders have against resolving the dilemma. You want a renunciation, but it doesn't have to take that form if there is a logical position where the development can be recast without offending your tradition, and that has been done in other cases. So I hold out for hope.

If you wish to refer me to written sources, I can continue to prosecute my hypothesis; but if you refer me to the hierarchy it will need to wait until I can make it an issue IRL.

Good attempt at argument then. I have 42 Scriptures where Jesus identifies as a Jew. There are more that don't use the word "Jew". Is Jesus a Gentile then? Or is he a Judahite and you don't think French 800s "Ju" is a proper elision of Judahite and means something entirely different? You have no definition of "Jew" in that theory prior to then. If there were any Edomites left after 70 they were among the Ioudaious Judahites and kept Ioudaismos traditions and were fully naturalized. To the degree Edomites mixed with Judahites 100 years prior, they don't magically unmix against the laws of entropy. How do you deny the Jews the right to call themselves Jews when that logically means they could deny Americans the right to call themselves Americans? Are you actually saying it's possible for immigrants to overwhelm and rightly claim the mantle of a people they totally displaced? That seems contrary to your whole life purpose.

He ain't an unnatural-born citizen like Barry!

'The Bible says in 42 places that Jesus was born King of the Jews, was the Jewish Deliverance out of Elsewhere, was the Jew held by the nations, kept Jewish customs, was a citizen of the Jewish nation, identified as a Jew, was called a Jew, was ruled in court as a Jew, died a Jew, was the Jewish Messiah, had myriads of Jewish believers, led a Jewish sect, followed Jewish law, and was a spiritual Jew too.' Do John 4:9, 22 now.

Worship the One Jew. The real Jesus is a Jew and King of the Jews. You deny Jesus every time you deflect from him.

Worship the One Jew. Say His Name. The real Jesus is a Jew and King of the Jews. You deny Jesus every time you deflect from him.

HEY EVERYONE, THE part-y IS HERE!

We were just sitting around missing you.

Thanks for the tip! However, this still seems consistent with stated facts (that we have multinational servers, that we ban based on obsession, etc.).

Worship the One Jew. The real Jesus is a Jew and King of the Jews. You deny Jesus every time you deflect from him.

Now that we agree on OP that it was thousands and not billions, a new game, sure.

So you can’t answer [where did the wise man build his house upon the rock? What rock? What shoreline?]

See that proves it's a new game. Galilee.

Nothing you say is even remotely close to reality.

"Speed" not found. But I'll add the context you could have inferred, "people aren't doing mirror interferometry anymore for lightspeed measurement."

Thanks for showing we don’t actually see it.

I linked exponential growth so you could see it. Maybe you're blind.

So definitely throw out classical mechanics, right?

Technically the quantum revolution threw out classical mechanics.

Direct comparison.

I said the millions of current species don't entail the evolutionist billions of species, and you said this was like the 8 billion humans disproving the 100 billion prior humans. It's false because the humans arise by exponential growth but the species do not and are wholly invented (without fossil evidence) to keep the known species into the billion-year narrative.

Microevolution can cause speciation.

Not new DNA barcodes, and not the millions of species today.

Enjoy being raped and murdered by the demons you worship as they flood over the Earth, then. You can’t actually reply to anything anyone says, so I don’t really care if you live or die anymore.

Nah, it is. More, even, because the collapse won’t quite happen (at current behavioral rates) until there are a few billion more useless eaters.

Denied in Jesus's name, doomer.

Any evidence of that?

The earth has 37 billion acres.

“The conditions for life to exist continued to exist so it’s odd that life continued to exist” is not even remotely an argument.

Which is why WAP is idiotic. In closed systems conditions for life don't continue to exist on the scale we observe, therefore this is an open system with some unknown input.

We have several [photo of a supernova actively triggering a molecular cloud]

You didn't link any, and being snapshots they cannot confirm the triggering narrative because they can fit any other narrative.

My question is why you’re believing this, given the custom laws of physics you’ve applied to your one-shot setting, and therefore why it’s impossible for the velocities to stay the same.

Lightspeed doesn't affect gravitation, so spiral galaxies do show either youth, or imaginary betenoire matter.

Literally your precise claim, right now, today.

I didn't claim or imply God made the universe look old, I said God told us how old the universe was in Genesis 1 when he made it.

Tens of millions of years, yeah.

Exactly, not billions, which is why they invented the betenoire.

Literally the same shit as how stellar systems form, which we’ve seen happen both in reality and in computer models…

No, stellar systems don't have neat spiral patterns caused by rotation of many objects at many distances.

The speed of light dictates the physical behaviors of all matter at the subatomic level. You can’t

The quantum behavior is tied to other factors that vary with lightspeed such as fine structure. So VSL is canceled out in these effects. Pick an effect that you think is dictated, we can look it up, it always works out when I've tried.

Observationally. Predate. All. Of. Human. History. Read or don’t reply.

It's irrelevant whether the craters predated the flood because they don't prove billions. I'm not arguing about millions or less versus thousands (though I have my beliefs), and you're not either because you're not actually producing prehistoric erosion evidence.

Plenty of evidence, yeah.

No, the fossil record is not consistent with the number of specimens 5 billion years would produce. You said yourself 100 billion humans total. Now plug in any modest population growth numbers and cataclysm cycles and let me know if you get something legitimate at the millions level. It points to the thousands.

Posted about six defenses.

I don't recall any of them indicated millions of years of death. If you mean (5)-(10) lightspeed, observation, radiation, dendrochronology, erosion, theology, none of those had the evidence.

THINGS ARE DIFFERENT BECAUSE I SAY THEY ARE!

The uniformitarian assumes conditions must be the same because he says so. C measurements show a statistically significant variance even accounting for all error, and this is assumed away. The best fit is rejected in favor of an inference to a worse explanation.

No, it defines itself that way.

The SI defines the meter and second that are used for measurement. Since they are defined by radiation, they don't vary since the 70s even if lightspeed varies.

Is this a sad attempt at a joke

No, whether c is dependent on dynamic or radiation measurement does change the meaning of its other uses.

And yet we know that atoms collapse below certain energy densities.

And?

They have. They did. We know it now.

If people had corrected the error range in the old measurements, the ranges would hit the flatline in the linked graphic. They don't.

They were wrong before.

All known error has been included in the ranges and they still don't hit the line.

its finite contents will eventually reach this final energy state, wherein nothing can ever physically happen again.

And, by your logic, since you know this date, you're a heretic for knowing when Jesus will return by.

It’s not relevant to the statement

Satan is relevant to the fall because he fell before the fall.

and you refuse to reply to the statement.

I replied that it doesn't follow that "If physical death and sin death are the same (Bible says otherwise), no physical interactions took place between any matter before the first bite of the fruit"; because it's a strawman, and it's an unstated premise in that "I don't see your mechanism for concluding physical interactions couldn't happen without physical death."

Because you’ve chosen not to read my comment.

The trigger is the transference of energy.

The mechanism isn't there. A physical universe without death works just fine, even entropically if it will someday be translated into a new heaven-earth.

You are objectively wrong about them not being measurable.

Never said that, I said we do measure them. In fact the same variations are present in the measurement of "constants" tied to c.

Where.

Anywhere. You say "Same isotopes. Same half-lives. Different amounts of the isotope left." Different amounts can happen if the unknown initial amount was different, if one sample lost or gained material by leaching outside the sample, or if catastrophe or environment changed the nature of the decay. Uniformitarians assume without knowledge that none of this ever happened, and voila billions.

Didn’t read it, then. Got it.

I read it was eroded, and its age was determined by radiation. "The age finding was based on analysis of ancient crystals of the minerals zircon and monazite found in the crater. Scientists used uranium–lead dating to analyze the samples and to determine the age of the impact crater." Maybe you didn't read it for the same reason you can't see a GIF of exponential growth. The erosion was not used to date the crater, and could not have been on erosion assumptions.

So the ones that are knowably, measurably, self-evidently, visibly older than the others; they’re all the same age because you say so.

I asked for such erosion evidence, haven't seen it, it's as if you're telling a story. What was the name of your rock?

The physical reality that God created.

Was very good. By one man death entered the world. Death will be destroyed. "Nature red in tooth and claw" is Darwin's dooming, oh wait you like dooming, I get it.

I know how much fun you have not offering proof, which is why I indulge the game. If you were actually trying to prove something it'd be different. You'd be saying here's a good model of how human populations varied a million years without overpopulating or dying, here's a good example of a crater age measured by erosion, here's a good model of how many species existed for however many years and how species originated, here's a good published theology on physical death before Adam, but you don't. So you're not here to prove anything, you're here to game. Anytime.

Worship the One Jew. The real Jesus is a Jew and King of the Jews. You deny Jesus every time you deflect from him.

Worship the One Jew. The real Jesus is a Jew and King of the Jews. You deny Jesus every time you deflect from him.

Worship the One Jew. Say His Name. You deny Jesus every time you deflect from him.

Worship the One Jew.

Thank you for saying the name. Your contradiction shows that the "Jesus" you claim is not a Jew. So you don't worship the one Jew as I said. Jesus was a Jew. You therefore admit to worshipping some other Jesus of your own ahistoric making. If your althist was real you could offer evidence that Jesus was not Ioudaios or that Ioudaios was not Jew.

You are deflecting from the most important point. If you think I'm deflecting from your discussion of not worshipping all Jews by agreeing with you and limiting it to one Jew, I'm still directing to the most important point and not deflecting.

In the past you've proposed that "Jew" means whatever you think it does, a group that rejects Jesus in which one magically ceases to belong when one accepts Jesus. No word operates that way. So you're the dialecticist.

The Scriptures speak for themselves when not shouted out by obfuscation, and have already been analyzed separately.

Houston Stewart Chamberlain (1855-1927): Admits "very entangled facts" that have had more developments ever since. We now know that the Nazarenes, Way, or Messianics was a new sect of Judaism in its time just like the other sects. Chamberlain means to say Jesus was Jewish by race but not by religion; but the DSS and Acts 21:20 show that Messianism was a valid Jewish religion and one destined to incorporate all nations. At least he encourages us not to distort or hide facts, which I always agree.

Judahite: The graphic agrees Jesus is Judahite and Judean and Ioudaios, but argues we cannot call him Jew because that means Edomite. The problem is that there's no evidence that Edom survived and the Jewish race died instead of the Edomites disappearing except for the few that intermarried into a continuing Jewish polity that loses no Jewish rights thereby.

Benjamin Freedman (1890-1984): The word "Jew" in various spellings (KJV uses "Iewe") goes back to the 1200s and translates the French "Jeu" or "Ju" (attested 900s), which simply elides Latin Judaeus or Iudaeus. The statement that there is no reference to "Jews" is flatly wrong, as if the French were the ones to invent an Edomite "Ju" people at the same time as there was an extant Judahite "Judaeus" people. The Jews have a continuous existence and the two variant names always have meant the same thing. It's not a mistranslation. Freedman carries the idea that he and the modern Jews are completely Edomite, therefore if "Jew" refers to Jesus then it cannot refer to Edom, and vice versa. But there is no Edomite takeover, replacement, or supplant in all history. When two nations merge they get to handle the rights of both nations, nobody externally denies them the rights of one of the two nations. (If Americans can say Jews aren't Jews, Jews can say Americans aren't Americans, so your saying the first participates in destroying the very borders you claim to defend.)

Roger Rusk (1906-1994): 'The word "Hebrewism" is the modern invention; it only exists as a later variant of "Hebraism", a word first attested 1570 with linguistic rather than religious meaning. If Jesus can be said to have a religion at all, it would have been that translated as "the Jews' religion" in Gal. 1:13-14, "Ioudaismos" or literally just Judaism. If we retroactively apply "Hebrewism" to the Israelite religion before 586 BC, and include all Hebrews (descendants of Eber), it would include Edomites too, because Edom son of Isaac was descended from Eber too! Though the Hebrews/Hapiru (including many peoples besides Israel) were noted for separatist monotheism, very few of them besides Israel picked up the Mosaic religion of the Tanakh (Old Testament). If any "ism" were to be applied retroactively to this period and practice, it would be best called Yahwism, worship of Yahweh; but I hesitate to say what the original worshippers would've called it.'

Talmudic Judaism: It is true that Talmudic Judaism is the continuation of the Judaism of the nonbelieving Pharisees (while thousands of believing Pharisees simply became Christian). The development of Talmudic Judaism has two known phases, the Mishna (the oral tradition that informed both Jesus's Christianity and ben Zakkai's Talmudism) and the Gemara (which the Talmudists built upon the Mishna for another 500 years). Thus Talmudic Judaism is a branch of pre-Messianic Judaism that remained pre-Messianic, but because it traces its past to Moses just like Christians do it is not modern. "Hebraism" was (above) not used as the name of a religion, in BC the common (covenantal, mishnaic, pre-Messianic) faith was just called "Jewish tradition" or Ioudaismos. Nor is the Talmud Scripture, but commentary that is used for areas Scripture doesn't cover.

Pini Dunner (1970-): Like many statements comparing Torah and Talmud, it's easily misunderstood. Torah is God-inspired, perfect, and broad. Talmud is human, contains contradictory opinions, and is laser-focused. So Torah is uniquely revered and Talmud is primary in consultation, and the word "important" applies differently to both. Talmud is not allowed to contradict Torah just like Statutes are not allowed to contradict Constitution; yet we count American statutes, which are subsidiary, as "primary" when we ask what American law is because of their breadth, even though the Constitution is "supreme".

Jewish Encyclopedia: 'Claim: The Jewish Encyclopedia, vol. 5, p. 41, says "Esau-Edom is modern Jewry." No, the image of this page is public and does not contain this text. The closest to the alleged quote is the historically accurate statement, "The Edomites ... by John Hyrcanus ... were then incorporated with the Jewish nation," far different from that claimed. It appears that the version above is a corruption of vol. 5, p. 208, which says, "'Esau' (=Edom) later represents Rome." I saw intermediate links suggesting that this short form evolved into the form allegedly quoted, via the unproven idea that Rome is controlled by modern Jewry; and this original stylizing explains the oddity of phrasing when punctuation is simplified.' This is just a telephone-game misquote.

Hyrcanus: Yes, Hyrcanus converted (naturalized) Edomites so that they were no longer of the (separate) province of Idumaea but of the province of Iudaea. They had to circumcise and become Judeans (Hebrews). They did not somehow remain Idumaeans and cause the Judean people to lose Judean (Jewish) identity. They certainly didn't contribute to the Mishna, which had been developing among the Judeans for hundreds of years and which is the basic for the Talmudic Judaism branch. So we cannot argue that modern Judaism merely "sounds" Hebrew via borrowing into some hypothetical Edomite religion; rather, modern Judaism descends from the same Hebrew Mishna religion that Jesus used and showed proper interpretation of.

Jewish Almanac: This is the first sentence of the book meant to shock readers into reading more, therefore is useless out of context. Its intent is that Israelites included 12 tribes and not just the Jewish tribe (or tribes); and that the old terms "Hebrew" and "Israelite" were not in continuous usage so (they think) shouldn't technically apply today when "Jew" and "Judahite" forms were in continuous usage. I would disagree, saying Judah is from Israel and Eber so "Jews" are "Israelites" and "Hebrews": but it's a complete semantic game, and here it's being derailed as if to prove the idea of Edom contributing to a discontinuity that doesn't historically exist.

"Gerald Soman" (n. d.): 'Quote from a "Gerald Soman" of a 1935 "World Jewish Federation" (the reality was called the World Jewish Congress) is nonexistent outside its own echoes; I've tracked such quotes before to their fictional rabblerouser origins, so I'm not inclined to do this one today, thanks.' (Didn't find anything to add today either.)

Alexander McCaul (1799-1863): Correctly notes that Edomites cannot essentially exist anywhere except by the fraction of the Jews that carry their heritage. (It's still possible that a people might be found that also carry Edomite heritage though.) This doesn't prove the Jewish people lost their Jewishness.

Practicing Judaism: Jesus practiced Judaism under that name. There was no Hebrew or Koine Greek word translatable as "Hebrewism" or "Hebraism", which are modern names from Late Greek. That Judaism was the elders' tradition, the oral Mishna. The Edomites never followed the Mishna (Pharisaic or Sadducaic), unless they became full Jews; and they could not have followed the Talmud since it took 500 more years to complete.

James Stalker (1848-1927): Simply emphasizes two religious aspects calling them "Israelite" and "Jewish", which obviously means the OT distinction between Israelite and Judahite practices. These were not in conflict nor did they relate to Edom at all; they simply emphasize the popular and ecclesiastic elements of the same religion with the same text. If this distinction is templated onto the "Edomite" idea it fails, because the temple Judaism and priesthood was run by the Sadducees, which disappeared, so they could not be the supposed extant "Edomite" religion sought for in the narrative.

Charles E. "Chuck" Carlson (1939-): Rightly says that Judaism continues Pharisaism. And Pharisaism continues the Zugoth Nasi tradition through Rabbi Hillel, who met Jesus and gave him the saying "What is hateful to yourself, do not to others." That is, Pharisaism is an ordinary Judahite tradition.

Conclusion: "Judaism" is majority Rabbinical and Talmudic and is thus Pharisaic, but there is no Edomite takeover in history at which it ceased its continuation from the oral tradition Jesus accepted. A minority position within Judaism is Messianism (Hebrew Christianity), which has a million adherents according to a Lifeway survey. Therefore it's possible for the rest of the Jews to find the Jewish Messiah in the Hebrew Scriptures just as Jesus's first thousands of followers did. They just need to overcome Talmudic encrustations.

I use the Christian Bible. Do you prefer the Havamal perhaps and would you like to discuss Odin's offering himself to himself?

Here are some Biblical statements about Jesus being a Jew:

• (1) "Then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place" Es4:14 is taken as a prophecy of God's Messianic intervention; "Place" is taken as meaning "God".

• (2) "Ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" Zc 8:23 is also a Messianic prophecy, such as when the sick woman took hold of Jesus's Jewish tallith prayer shawl.

• (3)-(21) "King of the Jews" Mt2:2, 27:11, 29, 37, Mk15:2, 9, 12, 18, 26, Lk23:3, 37, 38, Jn18:33, 39, 19:3, 19, 21, 21, and "He saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!" Jn19:14 Jesus is King of the Jews.

• (22) "And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant" Lk7:3 shows Gentiles didn't approach Jesus as a Gentile but through Jewish leadership.

• (23)-(26) "And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem" Jn2:13, and "After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem" Jn5:1, and "Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing" Jn18:21, and "There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand" Jn19:42 Jesus kept Jewish custom even in death.

• (27)-(28) "After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized" Jn3:22, and "And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree" Ac10:39 Jesus was of the Jewish nation.

• (29) "How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans" Jn4:9 Samaritan identifies Jesus as Jewish.

• (30) "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews" Jn4:22 Jesus identifies as Jewish.

• (31) "Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?" Jn18:35 Pilate identifies Jesus as Jewish.

• (32) "Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury" Jn 19:40 Jesus was buried as a Jew, as he had arranged with Nicodemus.

• (33)-(37) "Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ" Ac18:5, and "For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ" Ac18:22, and "For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God" 1Co 1:22-24 Jesus is the Jewish Messiah.

• (38) "Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law" Ac21:20 literal myriads (over 30,000) of Jews, in Jerusalem alone, believe Jesus is the Jewish Messiah.

• (39) "For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes" Ac24:5 the Nazarene (Christian) sect was Jewish with a Jewish leader.

• (40) "While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all" Ac25:8 preaching Jesus's life was perfectly aligned with Jewish law.

• (41)-(42) "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God" Ro 2:28-29 Jesus is also Jewish by inward circumcision.

The Bible says in 42 places that Jesus was born King of the Jews, was the Jewish Deliverance out of Elsewhere, was the Jew held by the nations, was in Jewish jurisdiction, kept Jewish customs, was a citizen of the Jewish nation, identified as a Jew, was called a Jew, was ruled in court as a Jew, died a Jew, was the Jewish Messiah, had myriads of Jewish believers, led a Jewish sect, followed Jewish law, and was a spiritual Jew too.

Here are some Biblical statements about Jesus being a Jew:

• (1) "Then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place" Es4:14 is taken as a prophecy of God's Messianic intervention; "Place" is taken as meaning "God".

• (2) "Ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" Zc 8:23 is also a Messianic prophecy, such as when the sick woman took hold of Jesus's Jewish tallith prayer shawl.

• (3)-(21) "King of the Jews" Mt2:2, 27:11, 29, 37, Mk15:2, 9, 12, 18, 26, Lk23:3, 37, 38, Jn18:33, 39, 19:3, 19, 21, 21, and "He saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!" Jn19:14 Jesus is King of the Jews.

• (22) "And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant" Lk7:3 shows Gentiles didn't approach Jesus as a Gentile but through Jewish leadership.

• (23)-(26) "And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem" Jn2:13, and "After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem" Jn5:1, and "Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing" Jn18:21, and "There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand" Jn19:42 Jesus kept Jewish custom even in death.

• (27)-(28) "After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized" Jn3:22, and "And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree" Ac10:39 Jesus was of the Jewish nation.

• (29) "How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans" Jn4:9 Samaritan identifies Jesus as Jewish.

• (30) "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews" Jn4:22 Jesus identifies as Jewish.

• (31) "Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?" Jn18:35 Pilate identifies Jesus as Jewish.

• (32) "Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury" Jn 19:40 Jesus was buried as a Jew, as he had arranged with Nicodemus.

• (33)-(37) "Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ" Ac18:5, and "For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ" Ac18:22, and "For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God" 1Co 1:22-24 Jesus is the Jewish Messiah.

• (38) "Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law" Ac21:20 literal myriads (over 30,000) of Jews, in Jerusalem alone, believe Jesus is the Jewish Messiah.

• (39) "For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes" Ac24:5 the Nazarene (Christian) sect was Jewish with a Jewish leader.

• (40) "While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all" Ac25:8 preaching Jesus's life was perfectly aligned with Jewish law.

• (41)-(42) "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God" Ro 2:28-29 Jesus is also Jewish by inward circumcision.

The Bible says in 42 places that Jesus was born King of the Jews, was the Jewish Deliverance out of Elsewhere, was the Jew held by the nations, kept Jewish customs, was a citizen of the Jewish nation, identified as a Jew, was called a Jew, was ruled in court as a Jew, died a Jew, was the Jewish Messiah, had myriads of Jewish believers, led a Jewish sect, followed Jewish law, and was a spiritual Jew too.

Here are some Biblical statements about Jesus being a Jew:

• (1) "Then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place" Es4:14 is taken as a prophecy of God's Messianic intervention; "Place" is taken as meaning "God".

• (2) "Ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" Zc 8:23 is also a Messianic prophecy, such as when the sick woman took hold of Jesus's Jewish tallith prayer shawl.

• (3)-(21) "King of the Jews" Mt2:2, 27:11, 29, 37, Mk15:2, 9, 12, 18, 26, Lk23:3, 37, 38, Jn18:33, 39, 19:3, 19, 21, 21, and "He saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!" Jn19:14 Jesus is King of the Jews.

• (22) "And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant" Lk7:3 shows Gentiles didn't approach Jesus as a Gentile but through Jewish leadership.

• (23)-(26) "And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem" Jn2:13, and "After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem" Jn5:1, and "Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing" Jn18:21, and "There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand" Jn19:42 Jesus kept Jewish custom even in death.

• (27)-(28) "After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized" Jn3:22, and "And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree" Ac10:39 Jesus was of the Jewish nation.

• (29) "How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans" Jn4:9 Samaritan identifies Jesus as Jewish.

• (30) "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews" Jn4:22 Jesus identifies as Jewish.

• (31) "Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?" Jn18:35 Pilate identifies Jesus as Jewish.

• (32) "Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury" Jn 19:40 Jesus was buried as a Jew, as he had arranged with Nicodemus.

• (33)-(37) "Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ" Ac18:5, and "For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ" Ac18:22, and "For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God" 1Co 1:22-24 Jesus is the Jewish Messiah.

• (38) "Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law" Ac21:20 literal myriads (over 30,000) of Jews, in Jerusalem alone, believe Jesus is the Jewish Messiah.

• (39) "For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes" Ac24:5 the Nazarene (Christian) sect was Jewish with a Jewish leader.

• (40) "While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all" Ac25:8 preaching Jesus's life was perfectly aligned with Jewish law.

• (41)-(42) "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God" Ro 2:28-29 Jesus is also Jewish by inward circumcision.

The Bible says in 42 places that Jesus was born King of the Jews, was the Jewish Deliverance out of Elsewhere, was the Jew held by the nations, kept Jewish customs, was a citizen of the Jewish nation, identified as a Jew, was called a Jew, was ruled in court as a Jew, died a Jew, was the Jewish Messiah, had myriads of Jewish believers, led a Jewish sect, followed Jewish law, and was a spiritual Jew too.

This one is a repost that was previously analyzed and shown faulty in every salient detail. I'll report back in this comment about it.

Here it is.

First error: Tribal affiliation in Jesus's day was patrilineal, and both his adoptive father and his mother were descended from Judah patrilineally, so he had no tribal affiliation with Levi. The source quoted is speculative and contradicts Heb. 7:13-14, "For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe [than Levi], of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood."

Second error: Edomite descendants are not the people now called Jews. Josephus stated that 20,000 Edomites (Idumeans) were decimated alongside the Jews of Jerusalem in the 68-70 AD siege, and the people is lost to history after that. There is no Scripture or history that gives any indication that "Jew" was ever a demonym of Edom at large; these peoples remained distinguished even though some intermarriages led to some descendants having both heritages.

Third error: The word "Hebrewism" is the modern invention; it only exists as a later variant of "Hebraism", a word first attested 1570 with linguistic rather than religious meaning. If Jesus can be said to have a religion at all, it would have been that translated as "the Jews' religion" in Gal. 1:13-14, "Ioudaismos" or literally just Judaism. If we retroactively apply "Hebrewism" to the Israelite religion before 586 BC, and include all Hebrews (descendants of Eber), it would include Edomites too, because Edom son of Isaac was descended from Eber too! Though the Hebrews/Hapiru (including many peoples besides Israel) were noted for separatist monotheism, very few of them besides Israel picked up the Mosaic religion of the Tanakh (Old Testament). If any "ism" were to be applied retroactively to this period and practice, it would be best called Yahwism, worship of Yahweh; but I hesitate to say what the original worshippers would've called it.

Fourth error: Judaism is not based on the Talmud, which was completed 500 AD; the Judaism from 586 BC on was based on the Torah and the oral tradition that continued to develop.

Fifth error: Judaism was not in Jesus's day identical to "tradition of the elders", which meant the Pharisaic interpretation, among others; Sadducees and Essenes had their own traditions under other names.

Sixth error: The people returning from Babylon were the only descendants who upheld Torah as continuation of Judah; there were not two groups of "Hebrewist Israelites" and "Judaist Jews". In fact the division attested in history is between followers of the Nasi and followers of the Ab-Beth-Din (two political parties called the Zugoth), which resolved into Pharisee and Sadducee, not into "Judah and Israel".

Seventh error: There were no "rabbis" at all until the generation of Jesus, and he is among the first to have borne the title. While it is true that a true-Torah tradition and an oral-dependence tradition are separable within the one practice of the day, Judaism, and that these two led to Messianic Jews (Christians) and rabbinical Jews parting ways, this was never a matter of "Jewish" versus "Israelite" religion, as even Christians today continue the mantle of being "spiritual Jews" and children of Abraham by faith.

Eighth error: To whatever degree Edomites converted into the Israelite Judaism that then existed, they joined the people already called Jews (Yehudi) since before the Assyrian captivity (and Judah ever before that). By conversion they were accepted as full Jews; one people does not simply turn into another by accepting a little intermarriage.

Ninth error: Nobody at that time would have counted "Jews" as a category separate from Israelites; when Jesus distinguishes from Israel he naturally separates out Gentiles (non-Israelites) and Samaritans (half-Israelites who had maintained a separate identity), not Jews. There had not been a kingdom called Israel for centuries; all hope of restoring Israel rested in the Jewish people through their Jewish messiah.

Tenth error: Jesus never distinguished disbelief among the Jews on the basis of race, but always on individual response. At the end of the passage quoted, John 10:41-42, many of those Jews who heard him believed in him!

Eleventh error: John 8:33 doesn't prove all Jews are Edomites, because Edomites were vassals in slavery to Israel/Judah, from the time Saul conquered them (1 Sam. 14:47) to the time they revolted under Jehoram (2 Chr. 21:8), let alone the Hyrcanus arrangement. The passage rather means those individuals had never been in slavery, and it is reproduced to show how forgetful they were of confessing every year at Passover that their people had been in slavery. (The discrepancy was so obvious to John as not to need commentary.)

So the categories in this article are so far from those of the Bible that I'd be surprised if any true students of the Bible would hold to it for more than a moment. Do you believe the Scriptures?

You've got nothing that hasn't already been Previously Refuted A Thousand Times (I just showed).

Your title doesn't go with the graphic at all, which is assembled for other polemics. The only evidence given for your title is John 8:44, which is not directed to all Jews because the Bible says Jesus was born a Jew, identified as a Jew, was a citizen of Judea from the tribe of Judah, and was killed for being a Jew. It's directed to a subgroup of the Jews that Jesus was speaking to.

Here is what the Bible doesn't and does say about "the Jews". In fact I'll repost it.

I've also given the list of Scriptures before where Jesus was called a Jew, that can be brought in too.

For the rest, Jewish practice is about superstition against idolatry, not about consciousness about Jesus at all, they try to avoid the question. The Talmud about magic is not about Jesus but a person named Yeshu the Student who lived in the 2nd century BC and is sometimes combined with others named Yeshu to represent a stock character. The next one has been misquoted over 20 times here, it's about boiling excrement and nothing at all about semen, and also refers to Yeshu and not Jesus of Nazareth.

The one passage that is historically about Jesus does not say the rabbis rightly condemned him (and only one rabbi, a minority opinion, states he was indeed a criminal); it says they gave him all the rights of an accused but the case was not ideal because of the Roman government. The Talmudic passages about the prostitute refer to a woman of the 2nd century AD, the mother of Yeshu ben Pappos. The Talmud does not accuse any such woman of bestiality. Nor are the passages about cheating, deceiving, lying, stealing, bribing, and robbing, but about right business relations and recognition of scrupulousness in business with Gentiles who do not have a Jewish-approved morality. These are all demonstrated in the Talmud Quotes page, except of course for the accusations that aren't in the Talmud at all.

100% (and better than usual)!

My asking counsel from a Catholic wasn't about being banned, it was about being unbanned due to my content being requested and then being banned for that content and for the mod being upset with me elsewhere. Since you are familiar with illogic you should have no problem with this.

Worship the One Jew. Say His Name. You deny Jesus every time you deflect from him.

Worship the One Jew. Say His Name. You deny Jesus every time you deflect from him.

The above applies to you too, because you refuse to worship the King of the Jews but some other invented Jesus. You refuse to submit to the Bible that says Jesus was born a Jew, identified as a Jew, was a citizen of Judea of the tribe of Judah, and died for being a Jew. You have some other religion that is not continuous with the Christian Hall of Fame in Hebrews 11 from Abel to the present day. Do you need the Scripture list?

If you only promoted your own religion as much as you defame Christianity by your larping.