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4
Jesus was not a jew by religion or ancestry (media.scored.co)
posted 75 days ago by JosephGoebbel5 75 days ago by JosephGoebbel5 +7 / -3
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– SwampRangers 0 points 75 days ago +3 / -3

This one is a repost that was previously analyzed and shown faulty in every salient detail. I'll report back in this comment about it.


Here it is.

First error: Tribal affiliation in Jesus's day was patrilineal, and both his adoptive father and his mother were descended from Judah patrilineally, so he had no tribal affiliation with Levi. The source quoted is speculative and contradicts Heb. 7:13-14, "For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe [than Levi], of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood."

Second error: Edomite descendants are not the people now called Jews. Josephus stated that 20,000 Edomites (Idumeans) were decimated alongside the Jews of Jerusalem in the 68-70 AD siege, and the people is lost to history after that. There is no Scripture or history that gives any indication that "Jew" was ever a demonym of Edom at large; these peoples remained distinguished even though some intermarriages led to some descendants having both heritages.

Third error: The word "Hebrewism" is the modern invention; it only exists as a later variant of "Hebraism", a word first attested 1570 with linguistic rather than religious meaning. If Jesus can be said to have a religion at all, it would have been that translated as "the Jews' religion" in Gal. 1:13-14, "Ioudaismos" or literally just Judaism. If we retroactively apply "Hebrewism" to the Israelite religion before 586 BC, and include all Hebrews (descendants of Eber), it would include Edomites too, because Edom son of Isaac was descended from Eber too! Though the Hebrews/Hapiru (including many peoples besides Israel) were noted for separatist monotheism, very few of them besides Israel picked up the Mosaic religion of the Tanakh (Old Testament). If any "ism" were to be applied retroactively to this period and practice, it would be best called Yahwism, worship of Yahweh; but I hesitate to say what the original worshippers would've called it.

Fourth error: Judaism is not based on the Talmud, which was completed 500 AD; the Judaism from 586 BC on was based on the Torah and the oral tradition that continued to develop.

Fifth error: Judaism was not in Jesus's day identical to "tradition of the elders", which meant the Pharisaic interpretation, among others; Sadducees and Essenes had their own traditions under other names.

Sixth error: The people returning from Babylon were the only descendants who upheld Torah as continuation of Judah; there were not two groups of "Hebrewist Israelites" and "Judaist Jews". In fact the division attested in history is between followers of the Nasi and followers of the Ab-Beth-Din (two political parties called the Zugoth), which resolved into Pharisee and Sadducee, not into "Judah and Israel".

Seventh error: There were no "rabbis" at all until the generation of Jesus, and he is among the first to have borne the title. While it is true that a true-Torah tradition and an oral-dependence tradition are separable within the one practice of the day, Judaism, and that these two led to Messianic Jews (Christians) and rabbinical Jews parting ways, this was never a matter of "Jewish" versus "Israelite" religion, as even Christians today continue the mantle of being "spiritual Jews" and children of Abraham by faith.

Eighth error: To whatever degree Edomites converted into the Israelite Judaism that then existed, they joined the people already called Jews (Yehudi) since before the Assyrian captivity (and Judah ever before that). By conversion they were accepted as full Jews; one people does not simply turn into another by accepting a little intermarriage.

Ninth error: Nobody at that time would have counted "Jews" as a category separate from Israelites; when Jesus distinguishes from Israel he naturally separates out Gentiles (non-Israelites) and Samaritans (half-Israelites who had maintained a separate identity), not Jews. There had not been a kingdom called Israel for centuries; all hope of restoring Israel rested in the Jewish people through their Jewish messiah.

Tenth error: Jesus never distinguished disbelief among the Jews on the basis of race, but always on individual response. At the end of the passage quoted, John 10:41-42, many of those Jews who heard him believed in him!

Eleventh error: John 8:33 doesn't prove all Jews are Edomites, because Edomites were vassals in slavery to Israel/Judah, from the time Saul conquered them (1 Sam. 14:47) to the time they revolted under Jehoram (2 Chr. 21:8), let alone the Hyrcanus arrangement. The passage rather means those individuals had never been in slavery, and it is reproduced to show how forgetful they were of confessing every year at Passover that their people had been in slavery. (The discrepancy was so obvious to John as not to need commentary.)

So the categories in this article are so far from those of the Bible that I'd be surprised if any true students of the Bible would hold to it for more than a moment. Do you believe the Scriptures?

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– JosephGoebbel5 [S] 3 points 75 days ago +4 / -1

I can't prove it, so wall of spam incoming

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