That's not a technology, it is purely vendor lock, hardware-as-a-service and other disgusting shit from profit-driven coproeconomy.

All that shit intentionally developed and forced by companites, just like fucking Apple iPhone that even don't have standard charging connector without any reason except selling shitty apple cables and chargers.

Same with agricultural equipment. You could easily run into situation when your water hose quick connectrors does not fit water pump from another supplier. And so on. Milking devices, tractor trailers with seeders, plows, all that agro stuff, even fucking trimmers for sheep from different vendors. Everything is incompatible and you need either spend tons of money, either tons of time making adapters and trying to match one device with another.

Tech is great and very helpful for farmers. Its those who make profit on it are fucking greedy bastards with very rare exceptions.

Of your retarded claims.

This was not "claims". This was sarcasm. Retarded claims you could find in any MSM. All MSM are completely made from retarded claims. And owned by Jews.

All you do is lie and make shit up.

MSM do that, not me.

Very Russian indeed.

It's not Russians who have the special positive word "chutzpa" in language.

Quote of what? Jewish MSM lies?

Why propagandists always want a "quote", "prooflink", whatever, when they perfectly know how MSM propaganda works and all that "quotes", "prooflinks", whatever don't cost even bytes they occupy? :)

There is just no any logic in all that MSM bullshit.

Muslims can't have anything against Christmas, because of their religion fundamentals. It's a fact. Only Jews hate everything about Christ, including Christmas. It is also a fact. It is just one-stage logical operation to determine who is behind attack on people celebrating Christmas.

Also MSM will tell that he supported Putin, Iran and was antisemite. And hated their freedom.

Now it is necessary to find who was behind him.

Muslims have zero religious reasons to hate celebration of birthday of their Great Prophet Isa, who is exactly Jesus Christ.

There is followers of only one religion on the Earth who religiously and sincerely hate everything that is somehow connected with Jesus. It is Judaism.

Guess who is to blame now.

How could you even think there's anti-sugar propaganda when all the junk food made by the megacorporations is mostly sugar?

You will find sweeteners in nearly all corporation food. It is not easy to find a soda can without sweetener. Also, AFAIK industry use mostly high-fructose corn syrup as "sugar".

As for anti-sugar propaganda, it targets mostly alt communities, like vegans, natural food eaters and so on, average customer already buy products with lowered glucose content.

As for insulin connected disfunctions - it is in no way sugar fault. Insuline system in humans can't be damaged by product it is designed to process. It damaged by other stuff either from aside, either by processing things it is not designed for, like high-fructose natural sugar replacements.

As I wrote multiple times, without any result, however, fructose rich things are harmful for humans. Not only because of lower glucose content, and so lower energy available to the brain, but also because it kickstart rudimentary hibernation mechanisms in human body with all consequences.

The goal of anti-sugar propaganda among alt communities, is to lower glucose consumption. They already did that with average customer, but there still noticeable amount of people that still get enough glucose for normal brain activity.

Single use plastic containers and coatings (like the coatings of food boxes, cans, cartons and coffee cups) are not made of high-grade plastics.

Technically, you can't make thin film from low-grade plastic. It is opposite, really, you need higher-grade plastic to make cheaper thinwall containers or coatings. That is why plastic bag last longer in nature than some thick solid, say hanger hook made from same PE. When you pressure cast some thick plastic thing, you could use much weaker and cheaper plastic to make a firm enough thing, unlike when you need to make an endless, defect-free film.

BPA

BPA is used for making polycarbonate, polyvinylchloride and epoxy, and I can't remember I ever met plastic packing for food made from PC, PVC or epoxy based plastics. IDK, may be that's some local phenomenon, but I don't remember PC/PVC/epoxy food packing in EU either.

PE, PET and PETG, as PS, not even talking about PP, PTFE, PU and PLA don't need BPA for manufacturing, and in most cases it will fuck the process. Meanwhile that is why PC or PVC in plastic garbage could make it reprocessing impossible.

Epoxy is important plastic, but it is hard to imagine it in anything that have relation to the food.

PS and ABS have stirol/styrene that is not very healthy, but it is not BPA.

It's just chemistry, you can't make PET bottle, or PE coated paper cup if there is some BPA added in process.

All in all probability to meet BPA in food packaging is close to zero.

So why that BPA-in-food hype is over all google? It is suspicious at least.

Your ancestors didn't eat that shit or handled plastics for thousands of years.

They used lead pipes and a lot of other shit. Plastic in nowhere near heavy metals and stuff in harm.

Just write "microplastics is harmful" in google and you will get tons of articles of how microplastics a severe threat to humanity. Change that to "vaccines is harmful" and you will not find any relevant article, in the best case you will find something about "minor side effects".

Guess why is that?

I don't see how to kickstart that paradigm shift in society. There needed either some transcedental thing, like people suddenly become wiser, either massive state propaganda, either "social score"-like system for manufacturers backed with taxes and tariffs. None look realistic, honestly.

What is now being sold as food grade oil is processed under heat which degrades it

What's the point of adding this heating operation, say, for sunflower oil?

You got it backwards - the false narrative is that seed oils are harmless. The truth is they are highly processed, unnatural, unsuitable for human consumption

Wait a second. If that heavily processed seed oils are harmful, how does that mean that seed oils itself are harmful?

It's not seed oils, it is making something else from them with that processing is harmful.

I find it strange to project some evil human activity over the product on the product itself.

Food and diet is one of the biggest psy ops of our modern world.

Yes, like that shit with anti-sugar propaganda and replacing it with fructose or sweeteners. Sugar is most effective source of fuel for human brain, and someone want keep humanity dumb.

I think this "seed oils bad" is yet another one. Seed oils contain useful substances, say they are good source of tocopherols AKA vitamin E which is powerful antioxidant that prevent cancer and other shit. So anti-seed-oil propaganda could have a goal of lowering vitamin E consumption and so rise of cancer cases.

There's a whole another rabbit hole about what those coatings are made of and the bio-accumulation of plastics like teflon in the organs (yes, in your balls too).

Teflon AKA PTFE is one of the most inert substances in the world. Even fluoridic acid can't do anything with teflon. So teflon is the most harmless thing that could get into our body. :) I would be more concerned about food itself than about possible swallowing of tiny teflon chip.

That microplastic shit is a rabbit hole too, meanwhile.

Look, in the past, plastics was much less durable and many was based on phenols and other shit that was poorly stitched in polymer due to worse process. This plastics easily frayed out, weared and decomposed. So in the past we consumed much more microplastic than now. Modern plastics we have around is much more durable and most are unbelievably inert like PTFE, PP, PE, PETG and other. Modern ABS and PS also much better than polystirol from few decades earlier. Recall that old polystirol cases for computers and home appliances - they become yellow and turn brittle in few years sometime. Now ABS casings will stay like new for decades.

So, if microplastics is really a problem, we would see much higher casualities from it in the past, than now.

I think all that FUD pushed about sugar, microplastic, seed oils and other stuff that was perfectly fine not long ago is a cover for some really evil shit, like things that inserted/produced in our food supply, say during that deep food processing you mentioned earlier.

It is gradual process. There are much less and much harder to find things that have good quality.

I want a backyard grill, for instance, but I don't cook out much. I could get a quality one that will cost a lot, or since I grill 2-3 times a year, it's my money, and I chose to purchase an inferior grill.

This is excellent example of how this works, really. Stainless steel, good, austenite one, like AISI304 cost around 3 times more than raw cheap steel as rolled metal. So, if your grill weight 10kg, than cost of material for your grill would be $10 for raw steel and $30 for stainless steel. But stainless steel don't have to be painted, which is human labour, so difference is even smaller, say $10. Even if you use your grill twice a year, will you really prefer to save $10 rather than have a grill that will never rust through?

But usually grills (if you mean classic western BBQ charcoal grill) cost usually much more than price of steel - from around $100 (I just take a look at Wallmart prices).

And here comes advertising. If grill is made from stainless steel, than its price immidiately jumps to the moon. I didn't find any in Wallmart, but google show some with prices from $500.

Interesting, isn't it? Material costs rised from $10 to $30, but price rised from $100 to $500. With exactly same amount of labour to cut and weld grill from a list of metal. And stainless one don't need to be painted, so it require even less labour to make. This additional $390 difference, that goes to somebody's pocket comes from making normal things a hard-to-find luxury.

flooding of cheap products by countries with low labor prices in order to ruin a market

This cheap products ruin local manufacturing. And the thing is that Chineese perfectly able to make good quality stuff, but Western mangers just don't order it.

You get exactly what you Pay for....

Not really, and that's the problem. Many ready to pay decent price for decent thing, but there are just no such decent things on the market.

if we buy a thing of Good Quality, an don't have to replace it for many years, then that Company is who we should verbally Promote, so it keeps making Goo Quality Products

How to protect that Company making Good Quality Products from those who make or resell shit and from regulations of the government that support this coproeconomics?

Then this average persons will look for cheapest possible shit making things worse and profiting those who are ready to sell complete garbage - corporations.

This all shit with profit-driven coproeconomy is looped round and round on itself. Owner wants profit, cutting salaries and bying shittiest components, so workforce have no money to buy normal stuff, so they constantly buy shit, eventually loosing more money than they would have been spent on normal stuff, Those who make normal stuff can't sell it, so they also join corporation workforce in search for cheap shit, when there is no any normal things on the market, corporations rise their prices for even worse shit and so on...

Sounds Marxist. There is nothing immoral or wrong about a fair profit on a product.

What could be Marxist in putting quality and reliability over profit? Profit is not moral or immoral by itself. Immoral and evil is to put profit over everything else, including moral and other stuff.

There is no problem in making most things lasting forever today. We walk a long way since Marx times. His shit is irrelevant now. Well, if this is Marxist, then I'll prefer to be named Marxist, than to support coproeconomy.

Advertising that doesn't lie should be allowed.

Of course it should. With important and meaningful information about a product. Not with feelings and subliminal stuff. But I'm afraid there is no any person in the world left who could even think about making such advertising.

My new product does X and makes Y easier.

Yes.

This will be far, far easier to parse than the intent of showing a car I made with good brakes zooming through a winding road as somehow subliminal messaging.

Unfortunately the science of making good and honest ads is already lost.

All advertising to children should be prohibited though. Their minds are still forming.

We have it prohibited in Russia, but that does not make other advertising any better. And many people have a mind of infant even being in their mid age.

What does this "seed oil" means? Sunflower and olive oil used for millenia in different cuisines, and nobody ever accounted it as harmful.

Here we use sunflower oil, olive oil, butter and animal fat (pork or mutton one, mostly) for cooking.

Butter is preferrable for frying (on frying pan - fried eggs, pancakes, etc). Pork fat often used for fried eggs or potato. Sunflower oil used for frying and salads. Olive oil used only as salad dressing.

Some dishes, mostly of central asia origin, like pilaf or cheburek, made in deep frying pan filled with the animal fat melted from fat parts of pork or mutton (suet?).

Also, there is a cheaper butter replacement - margarine (butter diluted with sunflower oil suspension), but it is not very popular and used only in baking mostly as a separation grease, not as real ingridient. Most prefer pure butter or sunflower oil for baking even as grease for baking mold.

All that oils are used for millenia in cuisines popular in Russia, and there is no any signs that they are somehow harmful.

We have many different oils made from seeds in groceries, from flax oil to buckweet one, but it is mostly spice for dishes, not cooking oils/fats.

Are there some other oils popular in US/EU now? I don't remember any significant differences in assortment of EU groceries - butter, sunflower and olive oil, margarine. Don't remember pork fat as separate product, but fatty bacon was in quantities on the shelves and was pretty decent for fried eggs in the morning.

Also, use of oils/fats for frying is dropped, because of all that modern frying pan coatings, from PTFE to ceramic, so you don't need as much oil/fat as for cast iron frying pan if you just want to fry potatoes or vegetables.

Where this modern narrative about "seed oils" come from?

Thank you for yout reply, I really appreciate it.

If money is energy,

Honestly I think that energy could be perfect money. Unlike gold, or other surrogates, it could be directly used by owner for any necessary purpose.

However, to make energy a currency, we need much better (in terms energy density) energy storage than that modern shitty batteries or fuels.

After all, you could measure any goods with amount of energy needed to produce them. And it will be inflation free, sound currency.

I began to thought about energy as a perfect currency, as means of exchange long ago, but it will need huge scientific breakthroughs in the areas that ostracised by official science.

From Bernays onwards, a method of selling low quality goods that people don't really need was worked out.

Exactly. And it is not clear how could we get rid of that shit now.

The Amish are against technology and they are arbitrary stuck at a fixed time in the 19th century as if that reflects Christian historic tradition in some way.

Yep. That's not the solution.

There is nothing wrong with technology or manufacturing of goods as long as the principles governing them are sound.

Exactly. But most technology, and especially means of production of tech now in the hands of coproeconomists. To create Amish-like community but with acceptance of technological progress, we will have to create nearly all industries almost from the ground. I think it is possible, but it will be extremely hard, and then community have to somehow defend it from profit-driven sharks, especially if it will become more succesfull than coproeconomy.

Hunting food returns the profit of meat;

Today's "profit" is only money. You will not be able to explain any investor or businessman the original meaning.

I'll work for a company with 1,000 employees if it's privately owned by the person who started it.

Good decision. I'll add to that "no loans" condition. But it become extremely hard to find such configuration.

All companies use the same "marketing" strategies

Exactly. This comes to the single pattern, so it is perfectly valid to suppose conspiracy.

Then it got sold to someone who didn't understand the business and now it's floundering.

That means that previous owner either prefer money, either was put in situation without much choice. This always happen with more or less successful, let's name it "traditional" company, owned by old-style enterpreneur who have something more than profits behind.

You have to constantly pay for maintenance of equipment no matter what, either to the original manufacturer, a service tech, or your own time.

First, many things today just poorly engineered, in most cases intentionally, to need service. Second, even most good old things could be fixed forever, just by making more durable part. Industrial equipment could be fixed by local service team, every more or less decent manufacturing have a service team regardless. And in most cases service team is not very busy, especially if business have sane administration. But vendors do not allow that, sometimes right in the equipment delivery contract. They want their profits.

But, again, this comes down to personal psychology; people don't want to fix their own stuff, they want someone else to do it, preferrably for free, and they don't care if that means they'll get screwed down the line. No amount of government will fix that.

Governement usually in charge of education. If children was not teached that everything could be disassembled and assembled back, and so repaired, will never think about fixing anything by themselves. So they will not be able to fight for right for repair or against "intellectual property" scam you mentioned earlier.

Like it or not, our system is sustainable.

That's what I'm in doubt with. "planned obsolescence" become widespread not long ago, but we already eat consequences with a table spoon.

Coproeconomy will eventually turn everything into the shit. Very profitable, but absolutely unreliable and in case of food directly harmful.

It's going to stabilize

When you fall to the bottom, it is not stabilisation, it is living on the bottom.

And again, I think that profit-driven coproeconomy will eventually destroy everything, including means of production. If your machine will be in service constantly, it will not be able to produce even shit you producing to make profits. Means of production already infected heavily, and things only become worse with time. F.e. some small measurement and control equipment manufacturers are bought by holdings that don't care about reliability, precision and other important stuff. And if you can't measure your process with same precision, you just unable to produce same quality stuff you produced earlier. Many times I met with situaltion, when some expensive old, but excellent measuring equipment had to be repleced just because old computer that run equipment software lecensed only to this exact computer hardware, (cpuid, f.e. hdd serial number and so on) just broke due to its age. And when business asked for a new license for new computer, measurement equipment manufacturer just told that this model is not supported anymore, so no new key will be provided, just buy new, worse and more expensive model.

Do you trust government?

No.

What you're proposing is to transition power from the free-market to government to reign in the free market and end the 'profit-driven' economy.

There is no any free-market in the world. Market is severely regulated by tandem of governements and corporations. You could easily check this in nearby grocery just looking on any product where you will find a lot of mandatory markings and data. Same thing is in any other area, from home appliances to cars. Rare things are not regulated by governement, really.

And even with all that regulations profit-driven coproeconomy thrive and destroy any remnants of nice things on the market.

Free-market in profit-driven economy (and society that measure success in money) will end with absolute coproeconomy disaster even faster.

If you have free-market, there is no any, even tiny limits where businessman obsessed with profit will stop. And he will have advantage over other, non so profit-driven businesses because he will have maximum profits and so more money to buy, destroy, cheat over competitors. There are no any limiters for such behaviour in utopic free-market.

Free-market could have some sense only if you remove modern concept of money/currency from equation. Only then, it could be really free, from the specific properties of money/currency that destroys this infantile dream of free-market. Money can't be good/bad f.e. So, in free market with money, one who will have more money, will always prevail. As soon as you began to speak about ethics and virtues, you inevitably come to some sort of external regulation of your free market. Unless you get rid of neutral money/currency concept.

Religion and homogeneous states that share common values and philosophies.

So you need a government (or other third-party with same purpose) that will overlook over this state market, ban those who do not share common values from market, check philosophies of market participants and so on.

You just can't rely on the assumption that all market participants will be honest and will never lie. If everybody in community are honest and good people, there are abviously no need for any market at all, be it free or controlled. Such community will easily exist with pure barter. If you think that such communities does not exist, you are mistaken. They are. One of examples of such community where is no any need for any market is a traditional family. And it is working, effective and successfull community. Unfortunately, it does not scale well.

Really it is not even about all that virtues. Even regular customer still trying to choose better thing even in exchange for higher price, if he is not severely limited by need and available finances.

And that customer available financed is constantly cut by the same profit-driven economy, because worker salaries are losses for business owner, and being profit-driven he try to cut them just like he trying to cut the spending on components and other stuff to maximize his profits.

Profit-driven economy devouring itself in a dangerous loop with positive feedback. Manufacturer produce shittier product, including using cheaper workforce or cutting salaries (directly or through inflation) or redicing workforce, workers being customers for other manufacturers look for lower prices and to keep profits they lower quality and workforce salaries even more, and so on.

This could easily run into death spiral, where poor people will produce and consume absolute shit, while elites will still get their profits. And even people virtues and consumerism denial will not be able to do anything with that.

Without destruction of that profit-drive that rule over economy, even good, God-following people, will not be able to compete or get rid of corporations that will suck them dry eventually. In the best case you could build something like Amish community, but that's not really human development, it is degradation or at least stagnation, with all my respect to Amishes.

Humans are innately driben to seek profit

People driven to seek the best for them. And best is not always profit. Normally human being will buy better quality thing, even if it cost more than bad quality thing.

our systems of government exist to make the best use of that drive.

Government allowed corporations to influence people's understanding of "the best" so, that they will buy anything corporations made. Even complete shit if been told that it is "better" for them.

Look at modern marketing, it's absolutely clear that it is pure manipulation. Ads and packages created to make people forget about real properties of the goods, that matter and look at things that don't have any sense for making reasonable decision. At the same time manufacturers care only about profits, not about quality, usefulness and other important stuff.

If you take any literature about marketing and read it without any bias, as side observer, you will see that it is all about manipulating people's understanding of "good".

One of such manipulations is to force customer to think that personal profit is at the top of things that make customer "good". To save 10% from the price is better than lose 20% of reliability or quality.

Our current system does not because, while companies usually start this way if they're successful, they'll inebitably be bought out by (((capitalists))) who have no idea how anything works but still consider themselves the boss because money.

Exactly. And this big bosses will always have money and tools to buy or destroy ones that stand for "good reputation". It is the point of their survival. If there is nothing to compare with profit-driven corporation products, then there is no choice for the customer, and corporations will sell as shitty products as possible.

Take a look at Phoebus conspiracy, that still exist today with LED bulbs. You can't buy LED lamp that last nearly forever (at least to the point of phosphor/diode natural degradation). But it is very simple to make one. You could even make one from shitty LED bulb by yourself, if you are into electronics and could hold a soldering iron in your hand, by replacing a current setting resistor. Buy LED bulb twice brighter than you need, then lower LEDs current by sqrt(2). You will get bulb of necessary brightness with LEDs running at lower current and so they will last much longer.

Obviously, people, even brainwashed will prefer normal LED bulbs, even if they will have higher price. Becaule it is their good - to have reliable bulb that will never need to be replaced. It is a profit-driven system that doesn't allow to produce eternal LED bulbs.

That's why I always try to work for small business, even though they pay lousy and expect a lot compared to big organisations.

Unfortunately, not all things we need today could be manufactured by small businesses. And this things eventually drag down even small businesses. If a small business that use some machine produced by big corporation have to spend money for constant service and repair, than that costs have to be included in the final price, or profits should be cut to the unsustainable level. Both will put that good small business in unfair conditions.

Just recall that JohnDeer tractors or modern baking ovens. Manufacturer make shitty stuff and force customer to pay constantly for the things that could be made reliable and easily serviceable by customer without any additional payments by customer. But they don't and it is purely intended.

So you want the government to have total control of the economy and hope that they will act in the interest of the public?

Government already have total control of the economy. Also government should act in the interest of the people. It is government force food manufacturers at least print ingridients on the packing.

If government exist, why shouldn't it work in the interests of the people?

That has worked out so well in the past whenever it was tried, right?

If something didn't work for you as you expected, there is a possibility you used it wrong.

On the other hand - what's your proposal? How to stop manufacturing and selling shit in modern profit-driven coproeconomy?

What mechanism could force manufacturers prefer reputation or quality over profits?

Chesterton's localism does exist as local farmers and bakers f.e. But we need big companies to make things like cars or planes or even microwave owens and computers.

And even farmers and bakers need industry to do their job. And when industry make shitty tractors and owens that have to be replaced or serviced often, farmers and bakers have to find this additional money somewhere. This way big companies force small businesses into profit-driven economy.

Stock market is just a part of the problem.

Small company could for some time work for reputation. But as soon as it gain reputation and grow, here comes crowd of managers who care only about profits. In almost all literature about management, the efficiency of management accounted in profits. Even if owner still truly care about reputation, managers will do shit, like, say, manger ordered to find best deal for some component, will find cheapest component, because he sincerely believe he saving a tons of money for company, will get bonus for that, and he know nothing about real tech and why quality or reputation is important.

There is no any educational institutions for managers that are not fully in profit-driven economy swamp.

Also, even if company somehow value reputation, it would not be able to compete with other companies who care only about profits. They will fill the market with cheaper products with ads indoctrinating customers that they are best and coolest.

It's not that complex to exterminate CEOs and owners of hated corporations. Even for amateurs. So, especially if that shooter was independent from state, state will have to show how they are working. If real shooter was smart enough to not to leave tracks, then state have no any option other that arrest some patsy as scrapegoat. If they would not do that, then elites will feel themselves unprotected and betrayed by state. And it could end with corporate armies, punishment of state bureaucrats and other corporate dystopia things.

May be this was even just first false flag on the road to corporate dictatorship. Watch for elites whining about "state can't protect important people who drive country economy", "corporations have right to defend themselves" and other stuff.