How do you find that kind of articles? :) Sometimes I want to show friends what western press reaaly wrote about us, but obvious CNN/MSNBC/whatever is too boring and being propaganda outlets, obviously don't show the real state of knowledge about Russia and around. But that things from some not very politicised sites is like "russian labels" on "russian" props in Hollywood movies, made from random cyrillic letters. It's funny.
Really, in this article stated that China imported batch sometimes could have up to 40% of defective chips. Not that percentage of defective chips imported by Russia stands at 40% now.
My experience with batches of China chips is that normal Chineese chip manufacturers rarely have more than 5% (meet once, wrote a claim, got 2x good chips, most batches had 0-0.5%) of defective chips.
You will find 40% only if you will specifically search for a price few times lower than market.
So, some dumb manager in some company decided to "save" money and get bonus. Result is obvious.
Chineese get to quality long ago. That myth of "chineese quality" still lives only due to work of "effective managers" who order cheapest possible crap from murky resellers, instead of buying from normal suppliers.
Funny, that you could easily get same result buying chips from Mouser or other well-known western resellers. The story with counterfeit FT232 USB-to-serial converters was loud even in MSM few years ago. Especially funny thing was that this counterfeit FT232 worked flawlessly, until FTDI (FT232 manufacturer) intentionally released a driver update that detected counterfeit chip and irreversibly reprogram it making all device with that chip unuseable (wrote 0000:0000 as VID:PID IIRC, so it could not be even recognised by USB system anymore). So many perfectly working consumer and professional devices was suddenly burnt after update, including some serious medical devices and latter fact attracted MSM attention.
After it was first hit with import sanctions, Russia made bold claims that it would be investing in domestic chip development, manufacturing, and personnel training, with the intention of producing chips using a 28nm node by 2030.
At the moment, the scientists of the Russian Academy of Sciences have created the first demonstration sample of the equipment. On this setup, individual images were obtained on substrates with a resolution up to 7 nm.
And it is not typical UV technology used by ASML, it is a ressurection of old, but more advanced Russian tech of X-rays litography that was supressed in 1990s.
So, if IMF shills from Finance Ministry and CB will be jailed and money that rotting in reserves will be used to kickstart Russian electronics, then we will have fab ready 7nm machines in 2024.
May brought news that Russia's inability to source reliable semiconductors was forcing it to use components taken from dishwashers and refrigerators in its tanks, which are probably more reliable than the Chinese imports, anyway.
Again that dumb bullshit about using chips from home appliances.
This is just fucking impossible. Typical PCB from home appliances is a MCU chip and few discrete components controlled by MCU. Most expensive part of this PCB is MCU. And to reduce the cost of MCU manufacturers order mask programmed MCUs from fab. MCU program is etched on the stage of chip manufacturing and absolutely can't be changed later. So, if you take a chip from home appliance it will only run home appliance program that could not be changed. It is absolutely impossible to reprogram it and make it do another things. For obvious reason, there are absolutely no use for a chip that could run only home appliance program even for DIY weekend project, not even talking about something more serious. I don't know what imbecile picked out that crap about "components from dishwasher in russian tanks" from his ass more than half a year ago, but I'm amased that this crap is still alive, being complete bullshit obvious for any sane person who could think on his own.
"effective managers" who order cheapest possible crap from murky resellers, instead of buying from normal suppliers.
I've worked with companies that had huge problems with Chinese-sourced electronic components. They're often counterfeit and usually have difficult to diagnose problems, like not working at certain temperatures or having been previously subjected to electrostatic discharge.
To mitigate this, they set up a verification process that means they have to pay more for certain vendors even when they can externally verify the source.
Chineese will sell what you want at any price you want. As I understand, they have no any limits about quality and don't mind to sell you crap if you paid crap price. And will never warn you about quality, thinking that customer must know for hmself what he could get for price he pay. If you pay decent price, you will get decent goods, if you pay very low price you get very low quality goods. Looks like there is no bottom in that game.
So, it is relatively easy to do business with chineese. Just don't be greedy, don't try to save another few cents and you will be fine. That works even for aliexpress/banggood/taobao.
What unscrupulous importers do is hire consultants who know a great deal about what things cost over there. Then you set your price so they can make a profit as long as they cut corners on things that would be taken for granted in the country of import (worker safety, environmental regulations, sometimes product safety and whatnot).
Not that simple, I agree, but at least this could be used as a beginning.
As for cutting costs, in worker safety aspect, AFAIK, Chineese now is not that tiny poor people ready to do anything for the rice meal. Their factories are not a Liao basement anymore. They are masters of copying, so they already copied all that western safety trolling and implemented even strictier safety rules. Not everywhere yet, of course, but it is spreading fast.
Product safety is on customer. That's basic rule. If customer don't bother to pay for it, than he wouldn't get it, and they will not judge him or ask additional questions, customer know better what he want. Simple as that.
Environmental thing exists, but they are different that western ones. Nobody care about all that CO2 emissions crap (except if customer very concerned about it, and paid for it), but for spilling some really nasty shit owner and top managers (yes, owners are responsible too) could be heavy fined and even jailed if CCP need to make yet another example of environment care importance.
Of course I have a limited expirience about that things and can't say that all and every Chineese factory follow that tendencies, but I do business directly with Chineese for a relatively long time and that is the changes and tendencies I witnessed by myself and talked about by Chineese themselves. Since Chineese like uniformity and quickly copy what they account (or was told by authorities) as right thing to do, I think it is more or less same all over the China.
USA would have lost both WW's if not allied with Russia.
Why do the powers that be that overrule USA always put one nation at odds against t he other in cold wars?
Jews brought communism into Russia. It is likely that remnants of any remaining communism in Russia today has jewish backing or jewish funding.
Fake cold wars give nations excuses for exorbitant military industrial complexes.
I would have rather white CHristians in USA allied with White Christians in Russia and cut jews out of our banking systems and finances and out of our intelligence operations.
With Biden illegitimately in power, Jews control the USA military.
It is likely that remnants of any remaining communism in Russia today has jewish backing or jewish funding.
Really not. Some remnants of socialism (there was no communism in USSR, communism was kind of ideal to follow) are valued by most Russians - free education, including universities, free medicine, maternity support and so on. Not shure that Jews will back that things.
Other remnants, like censorship, the only correct ideology, propaganda, etc seems to be moved on Western people now.
After USSR fall, many Jews from exUSSR and Eastern Europe moved to the West. I see many specific Jewish surnames originated in exUSSR and Eastern Europe even in US government. May be they took to the West all crap socialism had.
I would have rather white CHristians in USA allied with White Christians in Russia and cut jews out of our banking systems and finances and out of our intelligence operations.
Me too, but it seems to be nearly impossible while elites still in power. From the other side, it will be nearly impossible to overthrow elites without all white christians everywhere allied.
Kind of circle dependency - to get rid of elites we have to be allies, to be allies we have to get rid of elites.
Why do the powers that be that overrule USA always put one nation at odds against t he other in cold wars?
That's Henry Kissinger. The idea is triangular diplomacy. It is to discourage any one of the three sides from thinking they could win a war outright, because there would be a dangerous third actor.
Low end MCUs with EEPROM or Flash memory can be rewritten.
MCUs in home appliances have no EEPROM or Flash for program code at all. They made with masked ROM. Sometimes there is small EEPROM like 24CXX near to store settings, but it is data, not code.
EEPROM/Flash is expensive and could take up to 70% of MCU price. So large batches with masked ROM ordered by home appliances manufacturers.
Sorry buddy. Russia is retarded.
Absolutely. Believe me, I live here, Russia is retarded as fuck.
Of course, good luck sourcing all the equipment for that and supply chain of high grade silica.
That is another problem some try to solve here. There even exist equipment, but it is not working or damaged. In USSR was several enterprises that produced high grade silica plates, so tech is known. As far as I know currently only one enterprise produce decent plates, but they are small diameter, so not very useful for manufacturing large chips - it is much better to place many chips on one plate, than to be limited with few.
So, again it is just a question of financing, not tech.
So, if you wish Russia lose, than you should pray WEF, IMF and other bastards will continue to sabotage us via their shills in our government.
Open your dishwasher or microwave and take a look.
You could find ARM with flash only in something really "smart", IDK, photoframe or fridge that order products from Amason automatically.
There are a lot of ARM SoCs with OTP memory too. They are cheaper, so widely used in mass production.
PICs is rare thing in home appliances. I found them only in some car ECUs, like windows ECU or central locks. And in relatively old cars only.
Most home appliances have Hitachi, Toshiba, Renesas(NEC), China native or some unidentified COBs MCUs.
Especially those cheap brands that are common in Russia and even more in Ukraine. There are not many Miele wasing machines around. (Really don't know what MCU Miele use, may be same masked/OTP as cheap ones)
By the way, best chance to obtain a useable, flasheable MCU, potentially suitable for some military purpose is button mobile phones, photoframes, dash cameras, car radios and advanced RC toys.
If that dumbfucks told their shit about above stuff as a source for chips for Russian military, than, at least, it would heave been plausible. But in no case it could be dishwashers/microwaves.
That is how blatant propaganda could be easily caught and that is why knowledge is very important nowdays.
Maybe they want the power electronics for something like small motor / compressor controls
That is produced in Russia, Belarus and China without any problems. It is large scale devices, so no any shortage.
Russia don't produce high capacity DRAM, Flash memory, highly integrated processors that need low nanometer process and high resolution CMOS cameras. But all that things produced in China.
Processors of level used in home appliances produced in many varieties and, more important, in military grade versions (ceramic case with gold plated pins and thorough testing including radiation) you never find in home appliances.
That would make sense to steal from appliances.
In home appliances mostly triacs used to drive motors/coils. You rarely will find good power MOSFETs inside. Triacs much cheaper. Triacs are for AC, so no use for DC military things.
Again, to scrap powerful MOSFETs you need PC power supplies (at least there will be 2 high voltage low current and 1-2 low voltage high current), not diswashers and microwaves.
Most microwaves don't have any power electronics at all, just a single relay to turn on magnetron and motor of rotating plate.
Again, that thing about dishwashers and microwaves for chips is a pure and blatant lie.
I think it's plausible to identify secondary sources of cheap MCU with eeprom or flash memory from smart appliance that would work in a Russian tank
Hardly you will find anything pin-to-pin compatible around, that could be replaced in the field, really.
May be it is possible to find something for night vision or targeting display system in some industrial equipment, but I can't imagine reballing under the artillery fire.
Tanks electronics replaced by modules, not by resoldering chips, even in service stations. Broken modules sent to manufacturer for proper repair if it is allowed.
(I mean for the type of dumb shit you use cheap like 28-pin type MCUs for in "automotive" type applications.. boring stuff like limit control on a hydraulic actuator... the stuff that does get repaired.. not the high end stuff people picture in their mind..)
You perfectly know, that Russians are retarded, so that modern fashion with doing simple things with MCUs are not yet came in (fortunately ?). In Russian tank limit control for hydraulic actuator will be made without electronics at all. As simple and reliable as possible with minimum parts. Even in newest models.
Those Chinese microchips made by child slaves and political prisoners are probably like 2.3¢ each. organic avocado-oil fried potato chips from whole foods are probably more expensive per capita.
How do you find that kind of articles? :) Sometimes I want to show friends what western press reaaly wrote about us, but obvious CNN/MSNBC/whatever is too boring and being propaganda outlets, obviously don't show the real state of knowledge about Russia and around. But that things from some not very politicised sites is like "russian labels" on "russian" props in Hollywood movies, made from random cyrillic letters. It's funny.
The Kommersant article they told about
Really, in this article stated that China imported batch sometimes could have up to 40% of defective chips. Not that percentage of defective chips imported by Russia stands at 40% now.
My experience with batches of China chips is that normal Chineese chip manufacturers rarely have more than 5% (meet once, wrote a claim, got 2x good chips, most batches had 0-0.5%) of defective chips.
You will find 40% only if you will specifically search for a price few times lower than market.
So, some dumb manager in some company decided to "save" money and get bonus. Result is obvious.
Chineese get to quality long ago. That myth of "chineese quality" still lives only due to work of "effective managers" who order cheapest possible crap from murky resellers, instead of buying from normal suppliers.
Funny, that you could easily get same result buying chips from Mouser or other well-known western resellers. The story with counterfeit FT232 USB-to-serial converters was loud even in MSM few years ago. Especially funny thing was that this counterfeit FT232 worked flawlessly, until FTDI (FT232 manufacturer) intentionally released a driver update that detected counterfeit chip and irreversibly reprogram it making all device with that chip unuseable (wrote 0000:0000 as VID:PID IIRC, so it could not be even recognised by USB system anymore). So many perfectly working consumer and professional devices was suddenly burnt after update, including some serious medical devices and latter fact attracted MSM attention.
Really, we already have a working 7nm technology :
And it is not typical UV technology used by ASML, it is a ressurection of old, but more advanced Russian tech of X-rays litography that was supressed in 1990s.
So, if IMF shills from Finance Ministry and CB will be jailed and money that rotting in reserves will be used to kickstart Russian electronics, then we will have fab ready 7nm machines in 2024.
Again that dumb bullshit about using chips from home appliances.
This is just fucking impossible. Typical PCB from home appliances is a MCU chip and few discrete components controlled by MCU. Most expensive part of this PCB is MCU. And to reduce the cost of MCU manufacturers order mask programmed MCUs from fab. MCU program is etched on the stage of chip manufacturing and absolutely can't be changed later. So, if you take a chip from home appliance it will only run home appliance program that could not be changed. It is absolutely impossible to reprogram it and make it do another things. For obvious reason, there are absolutely no use for a chip that could run only home appliance program even for DIY weekend project, not even talking about something more serious. I don't know what imbecile picked out that crap about "components from dishwasher in russian tanks" from his ass more than half a year ago, but I'm amased that this crap is still alive, being complete bullshit obvious for any sane person who could think on his own.
Hat tip to you u/crazyrussian!
Well done. Well done.
I've worked with companies that had huge problems with Chinese-sourced electronic components. They're often counterfeit and usually have difficult to diagnose problems, like not working at certain temperatures or having been previously subjected to electrostatic discharge.
To mitigate this, they set up a verification process that means they have to pay more for certain vendors even when they can externally verify the source.
Chineese will sell what you want at any price you want. As I understand, they have no any limits about quality and don't mind to sell you crap if you paid crap price. And will never warn you about quality, thinking that customer must know for hmself what he could get for price he pay. If you pay decent price, you will get decent goods, if you pay very low price you get very low quality goods. Looks like there is no bottom in that game.
So, it is relatively easy to do business with chineese. Just don't be greedy, don't try to save another few cents and you will be fine. That works even for aliexpress/banggood/taobao.
Fair advice, but not quite so simple.
What unscrupulous importers do is hire consultants who know a great deal about what things cost over there. Then you set your price so they can make a profit as long as they cut corners on things that would be taken for granted in the country of import (worker safety, environmental regulations, sometimes product safety and whatnot).
Not that simple, I agree, but at least this could be used as a beginning.
As for cutting costs, in worker safety aspect, AFAIK, Chineese now is not that tiny poor people ready to do anything for the rice meal. Their factories are not a Liao basement anymore. They are masters of copying, so they already copied all that western safety trolling and implemented even strictier safety rules. Not everywhere yet, of course, but it is spreading fast.
Product safety is on customer. That's basic rule. If customer don't bother to pay for it, than he wouldn't get it, and they will not judge him or ask additional questions, customer know better what he want. Simple as that.
Environmental thing exists, but they are different that western ones. Nobody care about all that CO2 emissions crap (except if customer very concerned about it, and paid for it), but for spilling some really nasty shit owner and top managers (yes, owners are responsible too) could be heavy fined and even jailed if CCP need to make yet another example of environment care importance.
Of course I have a limited expirience about that things and can't say that all and every Chineese factory follow that tendencies, but I do business directly with Chineese for a relatively long time and that is the changes and tendencies I witnessed by myself and talked about by Chineese themselves. Since Chineese like uniformity and quickly copy what they account (or was told by authorities) as right thing to do, I think it is more or less same all over the China.
USA and Russia were allies in both WWI and WWII
USA would have lost both WW's if not allied with Russia.
Why do the powers that be that overrule USA always put one nation at odds against t he other in cold wars?
Jews brought communism into Russia. It is likely that remnants of any remaining communism in Russia today has jewish backing or jewish funding.
Fake cold wars give nations excuses for exorbitant military industrial complexes.
I would have rather white CHristians in USA allied with White Christians in Russia and cut jews out of our banking systems and finances and out of our intelligence operations.
With Biden illegitimately in power, Jews control the USA military.
Really not. Some remnants of socialism (there was no communism in USSR, communism was kind of ideal to follow) are valued by most Russians - free education, including universities, free medicine, maternity support and so on. Not shure that Jews will back that things.
Other remnants, like censorship, the only correct ideology, propaganda, etc seems to be moved on Western people now.
After USSR fall, many Jews from exUSSR and Eastern Europe moved to the West. I see many specific Jewish surnames originated in exUSSR and Eastern Europe even in US government. May be they took to the West all crap socialism had.
Me too, but it seems to be nearly impossible while elites still in power. From the other side, it will be nearly impossible to overthrow elites without all white christians everywhere allied. Kind of circle dependency - to get rid of elites we have to be allies, to be allies we have to get rid of elites.
That's Henry Kissinger. The idea is triangular diplomacy. It is to discourage any one of the three sides from thinking they could win a war outright, because there would be a dangerous third actor.
Triangular diplomacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_diplomacy
Exactly, these retards don't know how circuitry works at all. You can't just take any fucking PCB and make it do anything you want.
These child-like propaganda spinners think that everything works like lego or something.
MCUs in home appliances have no EEPROM or Flash for program code at all. They made with masked ROM. Sometimes there is small EEPROM like 24CXX near to store settings, but it is data, not code.
EEPROM/Flash is expensive and could take up to 70% of MCU price. So large batches with masked ROM ordered by home appliances manufacturers.
Absolutely. Believe me, I live here, Russia is retarded as fuck.
That is another problem some try to solve here. There even exist equipment, but it is not working or damaged. In USSR was several enterprises that produced high grade silica plates, so tech is known. As far as I know currently only one enterprise produce decent plates, but they are small diameter, so not very useful for manufacturing large chips - it is much better to place many chips on one plate, than to be limited with few.
So, again it is just a question of financing, not tech.
So, if you wish Russia lose, than you should pray WEF, IMF and other bastards will continue to sabotage us via their shills in our government.
Open your dishwasher or microwave and take a look.
You could find ARM with flash only in something really "smart", IDK, photoframe or fridge that order products from Amason automatically.
There are a lot of ARM SoCs with OTP memory too. They are cheaper, so widely used in mass production.
PICs is rare thing in home appliances. I found them only in some car ECUs, like windows ECU or central locks. And in relatively old cars only.
Most home appliances have Hitachi, Toshiba, Renesas(NEC), China native or some unidentified COBs MCUs.
Especially those cheap brands that are common in Russia and even more in Ukraine. There are not many Miele wasing machines around. (Really don't know what MCU Miele use, may be same masked/OTP as cheap ones)
By the way, best chance to obtain a useable, flasheable MCU, potentially suitable for some military purpose is button mobile phones, photoframes, dash cameras, car radios and advanced RC toys.
If that dumbfucks told their shit about above stuff as a source for chips for Russian military, than, at least, it would heave been plausible. But in no case it could be dishwashers/microwaves.
That is how blatant propaganda could be easily caught and that is why knowledge is very important nowdays.
That is produced in Russia, Belarus and China without any problems. It is large scale devices, so no any shortage.
Russia don't produce high capacity DRAM, Flash memory, highly integrated processors that need low nanometer process and high resolution CMOS cameras. But all that things produced in China.
Processors of level used in home appliances produced in many varieties and, more important, in military grade versions (ceramic case with gold plated pins and thorough testing including radiation) you never find in home appliances.
In home appliances mostly triacs used to drive motors/coils. You rarely will find good power MOSFETs inside. Triacs much cheaper. Triacs are for AC, so no use for DC military things.
Again, to scrap powerful MOSFETs you need PC power supplies (at least there will be 2 high voltage low current and 1-2 low voltage high current), not diswashers and microwaves.
Most microwaves don't have any power electronics at all, just a single relay to turn on magnetron and motor of rotating plate.
Again, that thing about dishwashers and microwaves for chips is a pure and blatant lie.
Hardly you will find anything pin-to-pin compatible around, that could be replaced in the field, really.
May be it is possible to find something for night vision or targeting display system in some industrial equipment, but I can't imagine reballing under the artillery fire.
Tanks electronics replaced by modules, not by resoldering chips, even in service stations. Broken modules sent to manufacturer for proper repair if it is allowed.
You perfectly know, that Russians are retarded, so that modern fashion with doing simple things with MCUs are not yet came in (fortunately ?). In Russian tank limit control for hydraulic actuator will be made without electronics at all. As simple and reliable as possible with minimum parts. Even in newest models.
Those Chinese microchips made by child slaves and political prisoners are probably like 2.3¢ each. organic avocado-oil fried potato chips from whole foods are probably more expensive per capita.
hahah, ohhh the copium won't stop from this guy. Putting in overtime tonight I swear.
You really need to learn where the chips we use come from. It is like you are completely detached from reality on all fronts.
CrazyRussian addressed your invalid points very nicely, ace work.
USA imports most of their chips.
Read this story, then imagine what kind of leverage this gives China over USA. Especially if China makes a move on Taiwan.
It is actually funny this thread and gumbys perspective on it.
He has no idea where the chips come from. This much is clear.
I suspect it is merely propaganda to try to make Russia appear as incompetent as Joe Biden.
hahahah, I don't think that can be possible. But who knows.
This was proven BS weeeeks ago.
Chips differ.
u/crazyrussian has a better grip on this than you do.
I'm Ray Charles with tech and even I can read this is BS.