Active sodomites have been clinically shown to have different blood with high regularity, which is the reason for the OP restrictions.

It's not calling me out to use (checks notes) obscenity, slurs, fallacies, and question-begging. Opening the Bible you honor and reading the passages where Paul defends being a Pharisee and Jesus defends being King of the Jews (both court testimony) would be useful, then you could tell us what they mean. Otherwise you're dishonoring your own profession.

Hey, there's an idea, collect people's own professions of Christ and then constantly remind them if they fall short so that they don't dishonor the name they proclaim. Kinda what you do, but I mean actually for truth's sake.

We don't know of souls all go to the same afterlife or not

Exactly! Which is why if someone is confirmed in not wanting to be in whatever afterlife Jesus is in, that can be arranged, whether their desire is good or bad for them. (And keep checking out what he actually said because in the quest for truth a lot of people agree that he's got good ideas; there's never a reason to let go of what you've once found true about Jesus.)

The doctrine of Fall of Man and Seed of Woman is archetypal in all cultures one way or another. The point is hope via balanced relationship. Everyone instinctively believes in hope unless artificially suppressed. That's why what desires they confirm throughout this life are honored in the afterlife.

Since I agree deception is real, all the more reason to test everything and then settle gradually on inference to the best explanation. It is likelier that that best explanation has been grokked by a few before me than that I get most of it before anyone else. Therefore I look for precedent traditions that have evidence such as wide acceptability or coherence, and I select from among them. If everyone does that we will all come to unity of knowledge on any point desired. Absolutely don't worry, but don't fail to make plans just as is proper to do in the process of enjoying any present moment:

The only lesson is to reject deceptions and enjoy the fruit that remains while you're here, and don't worry what happens or doesn't after you die.

When he replied to a dozen of my different comments over time, including his copying a charge against me 3 times, I replied over time including replying to the same charge identically 4 times. He woke up and saw 11, mostly different, responsive replies in his inbox at once and apparently got angry and blasted out 11 identical (spam) replies in 65 seconds and a 12th reply that summarized them. I replied to all 12 with the same answer. So I am not committing any more spam than he is. In other cases where two people dispute facts and escalate to many boards and threads, whether or not I was the one involved, I note that this is standard practice. Equal reply rights. The spammer is the one who escalates the copying first IMHO. (He is to be thanked for doing this in public forums rather than in the two forums where he banned me, because sometimes spammers double down and post charges where the respondent can't respond.)

What is the Body of their Church - a collection of all believers in Christ as God in the most generic and inclusive sense? It's an abstraction and there are no real boundaries.

So is the OrthodoxWiki conception of the Invisible Church in heaven. I merely point out that some of the church is invisible on earth due to its incomplete acceptance of the hierarchical churches. This seems to accord with agnosticism about where the Spirit is not.

pick and choose things within the tradition

If Orthodoxy declines to pick something someone else got, they just say it's not in the tradition. Maybe Orthodoxy claims to be the only that preserves all traditions that once reached a standard of universal acceptance. But then so does Rome claim by its standard, particularly claiming the filioque should be regarded as having reached that standard.

Again, there are elements of the true faith, but it's not the wholeness of the faith. It's a binary - you either have the true faith or you don't.

What's binary is knowing Jesus by regeneration or not, which is switching faith from off to on. The content of one's faith is always growing with knowledge. Now if you want to say catechized members have mastered a traditional deposit and yours is the only whole deposit, you're still saying filioque is not of that deposit and thus the question is debatable again.

Even the smallest lie will poison the whole system.

Not really, Orthodoxy has had mistakes and internal arguments without losing its promise the Church (in it) won't be poisoned. Rev. 2-3 says every church has infiltrators but the righteous will prevail in the Church.

The individual agents act in accordance with the mystical body of the Church, not on their own accord.

So do Protestants, to the degree it's possible to put down individual judgments entirely and represent others entirely. But if everyone does that there's nobody left to represent. So actions must always have an element of individuality, even if it's the individuality of the ones represented; agency doesn't go back infinitely.

In Orthodoxy you're not in a position to judge the decisions of the Church.

I don't know what your point was in saying we get to look at them and feel good about them then. If there is no individual judgment, there's no reason for the hierarchy to be transparent at all because dogmatic obedience is forced (I'm thinking of recent Rome). Either they publish them because it's good for us to practice approval and to air out disapproval in case it results in further understanding; or there's nothing for us to approve and no reason for leaders not to be absolute despots in the name of Tradition that is inscrutable to us. So I don't believe Orthodoxy actually operates that way, I believe, as you tipped your hand, that they actually do accept a bit of individual judgment right, especially in that one unavoidable case of the person using his judgment to submit his judgment to the Church in the first place.

When my judgment "prefers" my reading over my authority's, I humbly present it to my authority and seek resolution. I learned about 7th-day Sabbath 25 years ago and sought an authority with whom I could reconcile all that time, and God only made it happen last year such that I can totally affirm the Lord's Day and relegate my Sabbath observations to qualifiers, footnotes, and context instead of sect. I believe it's God's grace that he gave me the patience as I realize that's atypical. The issue isn't disagreement, all church councils and canons arose from disagreement. It's the church finding answers through judgment of individuals that respected and spoke from tradition. The councils set new traditions, but the Orthodox act like the age of novelty ended with the councils, which is not an epochal crisis that I recognize.

Orthodoxy is having unanimity on all matters of faith.

Then it didn't exist until the first creed. But OT saints were unanimous on the Shema, and on God's existence before that, but God unfolded more of himself, more matters of faith, over a calculated temporal agenda. He kept unfolding through the councils. When a new creed or canon is delivered, its dissenters are disciplined and it takes time to propagate through the laity. So unanimity is alive, not static. Resolution of contradictions can take millennia!

That suggests that it'd be easier to point out that everything was "made up" freshly at some point, that's why Paul is treated as such a hostile innovator when he wasn't. I appreciate your reference to Palamas, but I think that route (though I suggested it) would then lead to circular defense, because the latest is always said to have come from before. But the earliest teaching of any proposition is "new" in its time. And that's how the Scriptural canon works: books kept getting added to the Word that had already been approved and each book took its centuries to have unanimous approval, Revelation being the fastest approved perhaps. Well, each book is "change" and "novelty", but over time it becomes Tradition. But maybe Orthodoxy has closed its canon of Tradition like we agree the canon of Scripture is closed. I don't recognize that epoch, I see reasons why Tradition must remain open. I appeal to Stephen's reference to "living oracles" being understood in Messianism as oral tradition remaining flexible, not static.

other contenders

Thanks for admitting. Protestantism by its name means not that Rome is false (that was an extreme) but that Rome erred in handling Luther. That's nominal united agreement even when Protestants forget their name. Since Rome takes about 911 years to apologize (1054-1965), we're still waiting. Protestants believe the Church continues otherwise but that radical times called for flexibility about physically demonstrated succession (just as they do for flexibility about water baptism and even Eucharist). The conservatives recognize Rome (and Luther tried to partner with Constantinople but the work was physically undoable at that distance).

So again the similarity is that we have sufficient assurance our church is right enough, we constantly test our assurance, and we decline to judge other professing churches except in extreme cases. And that seems compatible with the Orthodox view. For an Orthodox to say that Orthodoxy has perfect assurance of continuing in its own name, no need to keep tested daily, or perfect ability to judge outside its jurisdiction, seems incompatible with it.

Jesus spoke to individuals individually. Communal thought was much more necessary for social survival until recently, yes, but nobody has ever been a total chameleon free of individuality, that would be Buddhist. Chameleons blend in, if they totally disappeared in every way they wouldn't exist. And Paul was a great individualist while demanding that everything he wrote built on tradition. Here, Col. 1:26: "Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints". How could God manifest was was formerly mysterious without there being novelty through an individual revealer for the sake of community appropriation?

Again you are commended for your dogged maintenance of this discussion and it's helpful to me; perhaps your sharing your ideas of how Orthodoxy will someday under Messiah heal the breach and welcome Protestants back en masse under some agreements and negotiations (while definitively ruling out the heretics among us) will be a useful tack to take.

^ other Jesus

The Jewish religion was Yahwism (just Seed-of-Woman Messianism), but was just called Tradition until it split into (Rabbinical) Judaism and (Way) Christianity. Jesus performed the duties of the Jewish religion flawlessly. Jesus was a Jew, Judean, and Judahite. If you want me to treat you as a pagan, heretic, and traducer because you do not worship the man who took on the Jewish flesh of his mother, sobeit.

Paul was a Pharisee.

Jesus was a Jew. He had every Jewish privilege under law from his mother and adoptive father.

If you don't worship an ethnically Jewish Jesus, you are worshipping some other Jesus and are apostate.

You don't win arguments with obscenity, slurs, fallacies, and question-begging, you just make yourself look like a Jewish shill.

I'm glad that making yourself look foolish isn't important to you, nor is accommodating others; those skills will come in handy later when you actually get set on fire to share the good news of Jesus to all.

So let's worship exactly one Jew.

Not related. The closest Toaff got is that he found some medieval Jews paying for halakhically acceptable dried blood like other medical supplies.

If you took all the satanist-data narratives about outgroups like Jews, witches, Roma, Jesuits, Illuminati, etc. (I also like to say Muslims Masons Mormons), you'd have a more representative picture, but Jesus calls that the depths of satan, not the synagogue of satan.

Catholics always tell me they're doing fine per capita. So does everybody incidentally. There's a point at which giving people privacy to work out known sins becomes collusion and someone needs to take the initiative to get criminals arrested.

Wow, more FractIonATed than I thought.

https://communities.win/c/Christianity/p/19957g6WI4/i-found-the-real-synagogue-of-sa/c

There were plenty of Romans who treated their own and everyone else's children as property and were allowed to do anything to, including kill, a child of the household. The Jews followed Near East culture and set ages above which sexual abuse would be a capital crime, and below which (because not adultery) it would be an injury tort crime.

Should I waste my time making up a graphic of the 12 identical comments you sent to me that merited these 12 replies, 11 of which you sent within 65 seconds? I did reply over a period yesterday to 11 different comments of yours in different ways, including that when you made 3 identical comments to me I copied a reply in 4 places. Do you understand what "to the crooked he shows himself shrewd" means?

Do you want me to remind you of how we met because we agreed here a year ago about a third party who also spams multiple copies of things regularly, how well we got along until I showed you the historical meaning of Rev. 2:9 and 3:9 (you inspired this post)?

The best people to have in power are the people who do NOT WANT to be in power.

I agree! As soon as there was any doubt about whether I should be in power, I stopped promoting myself and Neo1 (he doesn't want spam so I won't ping but he can find this).

I don't have to be in power, most of my communities have foundation statements that the community participants can self-determine. I think you said you didn't want to moderate or I would offer you a name if you wanted.

Yes, when the landrush happened and many people claimed names, I was very sensitive to not wanting to be a powermod so I laid those foundations deliberatively.

Yes, sodomites shall surely be put to death (executed) if it contradicts no other law. The record shows I don't tolerate sodomy. I tolerate celibate people who want to serve Jesus and struggle with sexuality, which is proper evangelism; I don't mind that our evangelistic fields are different.

Also, to put it here, Neo writes "I never even knew about SwampDemon" but he knows me quite well, having encouraged me to fight for Scripture and stay strong, called me "my brother in Christ!", accepted my invitation to Christianity Community, and thanked me for tech help. When his post there on the synagogue of satan was received with mixed reviews despite his and my hashing out the evidences, he bailed.

I never said spare all Jews, I've criticized individual Jews, I've studied Marranos. I also trust the Spirit's witness when Messianic Jews give demonstrate Christian testimony and lives, suffering for Jesus's sake from their fellow Jews as Thessalonian says.

Copy 12 of 12

You suggested and dismissed yourself as a mod when you said, "I agree - no moderation in quite some time... Seems like an echo chamber in here... And if we don't fix it, who will?" and "I am an absolute idiot in moderation".

I only promoted us two as mods after you promoted me as mod when you said, "this place has none active moderators... One solutions could be for you to create your own page and moderate it as well as you can, another would be to call for a community that would visit a forum and place certain people, that you trust, as moderators... If you want to create your own community, I will help with everything that I have. But I suck as a moderator. I can flag things for you, if you want, but I wouldn't want to make the final decisions. If you have an idea for a new commity, you have my full support! Many will benefit from such a place!"

[Note that I received 12 nearly identical messages at once and then was accused of spamming.]

Copy 11 of ??

You suggested and dismissed yourself as a mod when you said, "I agree - no moderation in quite some time... Seems like an echo chamber in here... And if we don't fix it, who will?" and "I am an absolute idiot in moderation".

I only promoted us two as mods after you promoted me as mod when you said, "this place has none active moderators... One solutions could be for you to create your own page and moderate it as well as you can, another would be to call for a community that would visit a forum and place certain people, that you trust, as moderators... If you want to create your own community, I will help with everything that I have. But I suck as a moderator. I can flag things for you, if you want, but I wouldn't want to make the final decisions. If you have an idea for a new commity, you have my full support! Many will benefit from such a place!"

Copy 10 of ??

You suggested and dismissed yourself as a mod when you said, "I agree - no moderation in quite some time... Seems like an echo chamber in here... And if we don't fix it, who will?" and "I am an absolute idiot in moderation".

I only promoted us two as mods after you promoted me as mod when you said, "this place has none active moderators... One solutions could be for you to create your own page and moderate it as well as you can, another would be to call for a community that would visit a forum and place certain people, that you trust, as moderators... If you want to create your own community, I will help with everything that I have. But I suck as a moderator. I can flag things for you, if you want, but I wouldn't want to make the final decisions. If you have an idea for a new commity, you have my full support! Many will benefit from such a place!"

Copy 9 of ??

You suggested and dismissed yourself as a mod when you said, "I agree - no moderation in quite some time... Seems like an echo chamber in here... And if we don't fix it, who will?" and "I am an absolute idiot in moderation".

I only promoted us two as mods after you promoted me as mod when you said, "this place has none active moderators... One solutions could be for you to create your own page and moderate it as well as you can, another would be to call for a community that would visit a forum and place certain people, that you trust, as moderators... If you want to create your own community, I will help with everything that I have. But I suck as a moderator. I can flag things for you, if you want, but I wouldn't want to make the final decisions. If you have an idea for a new commity, you have my full support! Many will benefit from such a place!"

Copy 8 of ?

You suggested and dismissed yourself as a mod when you said, "I agree - no moderation in quite some time... Seems like an echo chamber in here... And if we don't fix it, who will?" and "I am an absolute idiot in moderation".

I only promoted us two as mods after you promoted me as mod when you said, "this place has none active moderators... One solutions could be for you to create your own page and moderate it as well as you can, another would be to call for a community that would visit a forum and place certain people, that you trust, as moderators... If you want to create your own community, I will help with everything that I have. But I suck as a moderator. I can flag things for you, if you want, but I wouldn't want to make the final decisions. If you have an idea for a new commity, you have my full support! Many will benefit from such a place!"

Copy 7 of ?

You suggested and dismissed yourself as a mod when you said, "I agree - no moderation in quite some time... Seems like an echo chamber in here... And if we don't fix it, who will?" and "I am an absolute idiot in moderation".

I only promoted us two as mods after you promoted me as mod when you said, "this place has none active moderators... One solutions could be for you to create your own page and moderate it as well as you can, another would be to call for a community that would visit a forum and place certain people, that you trust, as moderators... If you want to create your own community, I will help with everything that I have. But I suck as a moderator. I can flag things for you, if you want, but I wouldn't want to make the final decisions. If you have an idea for a new commity, you have my full support! Many will benefit from such a place!"

Copy 6 of ?

You suggested and dismissed yourself as a mod when you said, "I agree - no moderation in quite some time... Seems like an echo chamber in here... And if we don't fix it, who will?" and "I am an absolute idiot in moderation".

I only promoted us two as mods after you promoted me as mod when you said, "this place has none active moderators... One solutions could be for you to create your own page and moderate it as well as you can, another would be to call for a community that would visit a forum and place certain people, that you trust, as moderators... If you want to create your own community, I will help with everything that I have. But I suck as a moderator. I can flag things for you, if you want, but I wouldn't want to make the final decisions. If you have an idea for a new commity, you have my full support! Many will benefit from such a place!"

Copy 5 of ?

You suggested and dismissed yourself as a mod when you said, "I agree - no moderation in quite some time... Seems like an echo chamber in here... And if we don't fix it, who will?" and "I am an absolute idiot in moderation".

I only promoted us two as mods after you promoted me as mod when you said, "this place has none active moderators... One solutions could be for you to create your own page and moderate it as well as you can, another would be to call for a community that would visit a forum and place certain people, that you trust, as moderators... If you want to create your own community, I will help with everything that I have. But I suck as a moderator. I can flag things for you, if you want, but I wouldn't want to make the final decisions. If you have an idea for a new commity, you have my full support! Many will benefit from such a place!"

Copy 4 of ?

You suggested and dismissed yourself as a mod when you said, "I agree - no moderation in quite some time... Seems like an echo chamber in here... And if we don't fix it, who will?" and "I am an absolute idiot in moderation".

I only promoted us two as mods after you promoted me as mod when you said, "this place has none active moderators... One solutions could be for you to create your own page and moderate it as well as you can, another would be to call for a community that would visit a forum and place certain people, that you trust, as moderators... If you want to create your own community, I will help with everything that I have. But I suck as a moderator. I can flag things for you, if you want, but I wouldn't want to make the final decisions. If you have an idea for a new commity, you have my full support! Many will benefit from such a place!"