Templar crosses. An expression of papal loyalty.
(media.scored.co)
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Welcome Agent Smart, I apologize for not welcoming you previously. As you've probably "noticed", some of the folks here use words in fascinatingly novel ways and it takes some time to find out their true concerns because they don't take efforts to remove that language barrier. In particular u/TallestSkil uses "libel" to describe my depiction of his past character, for instance. Sticking to the text "religiously", and in particular Romans 11 literally, keeps us in Yeshua's counsel.
If I may, a big difficulty here is Gentiles believing they and not Jews get to define "Jews". To that, my retort has always trumped what they're doing: If Americans can tell Jews they're not Jews, then Jews can tell Americans they're not Americans. There is a second difficulty, of course, the "Jewish problem" of "What is a Jew?", which they have a bit of disagreement among themselves upon. Generally rabbinical Jews hold informally that conversion to Yeshua means one is not a halakhic Jew but is still an aliyah Jew assuming lineage; but messianic Jews (the ones Lifeway counts at a million) hold that one loses no halakhic Jewish rights upon conversion and thus they set up their own messianic halakhic courts. Ironically, this becomes a second trump card of lower value: namely, our interlocutors agree with the Orthodox Jews they hate when they tell self-identified Messianic Jews they can't identify as Jews, leading to the Messianic complaint that they are rejected by many Jews and many Christians alike.
I recommend you check out c/Christianity, the original Christian forum here, your work there would be welcomed.
Your Scofield bullshit is the novelty. The previous 1900 years knew what words mean.
SwampRangers, thank you for the welcome and for the suggestion. But I want to be clear about something.
I want nothing to do with Christianity as an institution or label. I follow Yeshua and the Scriptures, but that is not the same thing.
Since you invited me to this forum, I think it is best that I simply decline and step away from this direction of the discussion. I appreciate the civility and wish you well. Peace.
Oh, very good then, many Messianics reject "Christian" language, I've worked with many. I follow Yeshua and the Scriptures. Would you be willing to let me know if there is any problem with the Apostles', Nicene, or Athanasian creeds, since that's the only definition we use for "Christianity" there? If you have objections about the 4th century, e.g., it's best to get those stated clearly. I do greatly appreciate your taking time to address the Conspiracies regulars and you seem to have a good presence at PDW.
SwampRangers, just to clarify one thing before I step away. I am not Jewish and I am not part of the Messianic movement. I simply follow Yeshua and the Scriptures. That is all I meant earlier.
I am not interested in getting into discussions about creeds or church history. I am going to bow out of this thread now. I wish you well. Peace.
I wish you well, peace, and shalom too! Good to get to know you better.
It appears that u/harzkp813 intended to see how well I "J-pill" you to see if he thinks I'm anti-Semitic enough. But I treat Jews like everyone else, criticizing wherever it's deserved. You seem to have the right balance for the most part and we negotiated the Marx issue, the dispensation issue, and other issues quite amicably. If he's disappointed that I don't beat up enough on one group of the many satanist tentacles we fight, that's on him to deal with.
I have total respect for people who simply follow Yeshua and the Scriptures but decline identifications like Christian or Messianic or creedal. My general category for such followers of Yeshua is just "Bible students", among whom I find some United Church of God (UCGIA) folks. Most of them are passable at getting the doctrine of Yeshua God accurate enough for me, but then some people think I'm too tolerant of antitrinitarians when I meet them. There are other such movements and individuals and clusters. So I tossed you a few upvotes and am looking forward to your contributions wherever you see fit. But, as a final plug, I think Conspiracies is fertile for your input.
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: that we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; but speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: from whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love (Eph. 4:11-16).