Sure but what does this prove? That Jacob was referred to as goy before he received the title Israel? I mean, it makes sense that there was a point where Israel started, just like Abraham was a pagan Canaanite before he was anointed by Melchizedek.
I was playing dumb - I know what SwampRanger was getting at and I know his dispensational views. He was obviously being dishonest by saying Israel IS a goy too. It's similar to saying Christ wasn't a Christian - that's a false argument treading on semantics. Jacob is the first person who differentiated from the category goy and created a new category Israel just like Christ created a new category of Christian.
It proves that the english word nation is translated to the Hebrew word goy.
Goy has become a slur God did not intend.
Israel is a people group of 12 tribes and throughout time some of them have represented a remnant of those faithful to the Most High God.
Some other times many fell away.
God doesn't care about words and languages because those are human creations - He cares about meaning and concepts which are part of His logi (divine ideas).
What matters is what the word 'goy' signifies in the given context.
Israel is a people group of 12 tribes and throughout time some of them have represented a remnant of those faithful to the Most High God. Some other times many fell away.
That's the meaning of Israel until Christ. The NT makes clear that Israel is now the Church - the heavenly Kingdom of God here on Earth and Christians are the new adopted sons of Jacob - not by blood but by the Spirit. This renders the previously accurate term goy blasphemous because as Paul says there are no jews or gentiles for we're all one in Christ. Of course jews and zionist Christians reject this and they stick to the OT definition, hence why we have an actual state of Israel and a new Temple about to be built where they will anoint their false messiah - the Antichrist.
I think the tribes are still awaiting promises and have not been replaced.
I also think we are one in Christ, a body made of many parts and purposes.
The current issues with Israel the nation and the faith base are happening because they are still lost and will be making some big mistakes, I'm told. All the more reason to help everyone find and follow Christ, sooner rather than later.
If there are no Jews or Gentiles, then from the perspective in Christ it's not a "goy" because it's not "Israel" either. From the perspective outside of Christ it's still both.
You say you're familiar so I'll only allude to the fact that Israel has two applications, national Israel gets national blessings and responsibilities, and spiritual Israel gets spiritual blessings and responsibilities.
As to Sabbath I'll let my words and others' suffice for now.
No, I'm saying Israel is among the Nations rather than apart from the Nations, and Torah proves it (there are other such passages). I'm also not dispensational; the word translated "dispensation" in the Bible refers only to two eras, which Jesus calls the present age and the coming age, which is not a uniquely dispensational system. HTH.
I don't see new categories as you do, but new blessings. As a covenantalist I see one people throughout history. Jacob gave that people a national aspiration and Christ gave it an organic foundation and a new spiritual unity; at other times the same people has made other quantum leaps into new blessings. The fact that we give semantic terms like "Israelite" and "Petrine" to these experiences, and argue over when the term fully begins to apply, is tangential. As an Orthodox you may see more in the organic foundation event "thou art Peter" than I do, but I trust you won't see something that isn't there.
Do you agree that a word can have different meanings depending on context? Do you think Jeff Epstein used the world goyim in the same sense as it was used in the Bible? I already told you that what was appropriate in the OT (categorizing people as jews and gentiles in relation to God) is no longer appropriate after Christ, because the tribal distinction was transcended by the ultimate distinction between Christians vs. non-Christians. After they produced the Messiah, jews no longer have a covenantal relation with God - their covenant was fulfilled. They still have a role in the eschatology though but they're no longer God's people - Christians are.
The fact that we give semantic terms like "Israelite" and "Petrine" to these experiences, and argue over when the term fully begins to apply, is tangential.
Again, it's not arguing over semantics but over God's covenant and our eschatological progression through history. I notice Protestants really struggle with historicity which makes sense since they reject tradition and latch onto abstract ideas that aren't grounded historically (e.g. the Solas). Protestantism is necessarily ahistorical and this makes it breeding ground for various heresies that would otherwise be easy to root out.
One such heresy is judaizing and dispensationalism which comes from lack of proper understanding of covenantal continuity in the Old and New Testaments, the role of Israel and the ending of OT law with Christ and OT worship with the destruction of the Temple (yes, the period between the Resurrection and the 70AD was transitory and given to the jews to acclimate themselves to the new covenant and to become fully Christian).
I already told you that what was appropriate in the OT (categorizing people as jews and gentiles in relation to God) is no longer appropriate after Christ
Then that would apply to male-female and you're no longer a man. But the fact is that this Scripture doesn't preclude people from still having social roles as men, women, Jews, Americans, etc.
Obviously Epstein uses "goy" differently, which is why I point him to the correct meaning from his own professed religion. We'd agree the religion shouldn't be countenancing definition change and can be criticized when it does.
Again you're tempting discussion to go into a number of other matters, and I respect you enough not to rehash those between us when we don't have good agreement on definitions as shown by the main issue I commented on, i.e. Masonry is a judgment upon Jew and Gentile alike, as the verse suggests. If you think Masonry benefits Jews above Gentiles in some endemic way rather than benefiting satanism above any racial class, that's what I was going after and you haven't "gotten that" yet.
Yeah an ex-emokoyer who was a Izzy idfaggit soldier back in the day, he died recently, he was a Freemason. Went to his house one day, nicest house in this hood, and he had Freemason shit all over the house. Gross ass mf
You gotta beware these guys. In that 4205 pages, epic conspiracy research book I just wrapped up the other day.. one part lately, was analyzing what the deal was with Shriners.
Didn't know in recent years they changed the requirements. I think they used to have to be 32nd degree. They're all getting old and dying off like newspaper readers. So they lowered the requirement and it was something like you only needed to be a master mason, 3rd level.
Hang on, looking this up to get better numbers.
"The Change
When it happened: The requirement for these "higher" degrees was officially removed in 2000.
Current Requirement: Today, any Master Mason (3rd Degree) in good standing is eligible to become a Shriner."
In the 70's it would have been a big deal, seeing these guys around. But I kept on analyzing them. Years ago, on instagram, when I was in the middle of getting the bling props from China, for filming music videos.. when checking who's following somebody it would be sorted by most recent. I was researching about satanists, witches. And go into real Shriners. You'd see these types of guys. The "vibe" you get off them. They seem "off", like something's "shady".
We kept on analyzing what the deal was with these guys. It's how, to be a freemason, you can't have a criminal record. What were these types of guys like, in high school. They weren't nerds too much, but they weren't good at sports. Or the "hot guys", or the "bad boys". They were kind of like middle of the road.
The 33rd though, you go to the temple in washington DC, and the president shows up. Those were more "winners" and less aloof nerds.
They get these shriner guys to drive kids across the country, or over the border, to bring kids to the shriner's hospitals. They can be trusted alone with the kids. Yeah cause parents gotta work to pay for medical bills.
What I noticed about the vibe with a lot of these real shriners.. they'll have a wife but they got this odd look on their face, like something's going on behind closed doors. This pervertness.
Also too, these types of guys who get into an organization where they can work hard, climb the ladder. Rewards. Who goes into groups like that. You get a bit of a read about these types of characters. There's gonna be something hidden about them, but in the real world, they're straight laced. They don't do illegal stuff where they could get a criminal record, or wind up in jail. So they won't be breaking the law, smoking pot, being a bad boy, back in those days. Drinking and driving. The party crowd, eh, back in high school. So they're more like don't break the rules. And these secret societies like those types. But at that level they do totally illegal stuff. They'll put the round sticker things on their cars in case cops pull them over. Like transporting kids, almost like child trafficking. But cops are mid level illuminati so.. they'll let them slide, by that shriners and freemason round sticker.
So there's gonna be similarities going on with your "buddy". You could sense something was "off", and shady that they're hiding. Real pedophiles are often like that. They won't have a criminal record. But they could have been aloof in high school, where they don't have a girlfriend and aren't "normal".
What was going on with this place though. Might of had who knows what in the basement, secret rooms. lol.
This is like the post yesterday about the old masonic engravings and they pull out this huge baphomet statue they haul around on poles. Well, how'd they haul that into the lodge, right. Probably when they're building it and people would think it's covered equipment. They'd have a secret entrace room down there, that they stash this stuff.
Here's an imgur version:
https://i.imgur.com/82gvf1J.mp4
Fake and gay judaism for the goyim.
Not exactly. Unless you remember that Israel is a goy too (Gen. 25:23).
I didn't get that.
https://imgur.com/a/bcmkg0b
Copy of text from blueletterbible.com on this verse.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/gen/25/1/
Forgive the add on memes, I can't link around it and the other 2 image boards I had found are unusable.
Sure but what does this prove? That Jacob was referred to as goy before he received the title Israel? I mean, it makes sense that there was a point where Israel started, just like Abraham was a pagan Canaanite before he was anointed by Melchizedek.
I was playing dumb - I know what SwampRanger was getting at and I know his dispensational views. He was obviously being dishonest by saying Israel IS a goy too. It's similar to saying Christ wasn't a Christian - that's a false argument treading on semantics. Jacob is the first person who differentiated from the category goy and created a new category Israel just like Christ created a new category of Christian.
It proves that the english word nation is translated to the Hebrew word goy.
Goy has become a slur God did not intend.
Israel is a people group of 12 tribes and throughout time some of them have represented a remnant of those faithful to the Most High God. Some other times many fell away.
God doesn't care about words and languages because those are human creations - He cares about meaning and concepts which are part of His logi (divine ideas).
What matters is what the word 'goy' signifies in the given context.
That's the meaning of Israel until Christ. The NT makes clear that Israel is now the Church - the heavenly Kingdom of God here on Earth and Christians are the new adopted sons of Jacob - not by blood but by the Spirit. This renders the previously accurate term goy blasphemous because as Paul says there are no jews or gentiles for we're all one in Christ. Of course jews and zionist Christians reject this and they stick to the OT definition, hence why we have an actual state of Israel and a new Temple about to be built where they will anoint their false messiah - the Antichrist.
Pretty sure God creates language.
I think the tribes are still awaiting promises and have not been replaced.
I also think we are one in Christ, a body made of many parts and purposes.
The current issues with Israel the nation and the faith base are happening because they are still lost and will be making some big mistakes, I'm told. All the more reason to help everyone find and follow Christ, sooner rather than later.
If there are no Jews or Gentiles, then from the perspective in Christ it's not a "goy" because it's not "Israel" either. From the perspective outside of Christ it's still both.
You say you're familiar so I'll only allude to the fact that Israel has two applications, national Israel gets national blessings and responsibilities, and spiritual Israel gets spiritual blessings and responsibilities.
As to Sabbath I'll let my words and others' suffice for now.
No, I'm saying Israel is among the Nations rather than apart from the Nations, and Torah proves it (there are other such passages). I'm also not dispensational; the word translated "dispensation" in the Bible refers only to two eras, which Jesus calls the present age and the coming age, which is not a uniquely dispensational system. HTH.
I don't see new categories as you do, but new blessings. As a covenantalist I see one people throughout history. Jacob gave that people a national aspiration and Christ gave it an organic foundation and a new spiritual unity; at other times the same people has made other quantum leaps into new blessings. The fact that we give semantic terms like "Israelite" and "Petrine" to these experiences, and argue over when the term fully begins to apply, is tangential. As an Orthodox you may see more in the organic foundation event "thou art Peter" than I do, but I trust you won't see something that isn't there.
Do you agree that a word can have different meanings depending on context? Do you think Jeff Epstein used the world goyim in the same sense as it was used in the Bible? I already told you that what was appropriate in the OT (categorizing people as jews and gentiles in relation to God) is no longer appropriate after Christ, because the tribal distinction was transcended by the ultimate distinction between Christians vs. non-Christians. After they produced the Messiah, jews no longer have a covenantal relation with God - their covenant was fulfilled. They still have a role in the eschatology though but they're no longer God's people - Christians are.
Again, it's not arguing over semantics but over God's covenant and our eschatological progression through history. I notice Protestants really struggle with historicity which makes sense since they reject tradition and latch onto abstract ideas that aren't grounded historically (e.g. the Solas). Protestantism is necessarily ahistorical and this makes it breeding ground for various heresies that would otherwise be easy to root out.
One such heresy is judaizing and dispensationalism which comes from lack of proper understanding of covenantal continuity in the Old and New Testaments, the role of Israel and the ending of OT law with Christ and OT worship with the destruction of the Temple (yes, the period between the Resurrection and the 70AD was transitory and given to the jews to acclimate themselves to the new covenant and to become fully Christian).
Then that would apply to male-female and you're no longer a man. But the fact is that this Scripture doesn't preclude people from still having social roles as men, women, Jews, Americans, etc.
Obviously Epstein uses "goy" differently, which is why I point him to the correct meaning from his own professed religion. We'd agree the religion shouldn't be countenancing definition change and can be criticized when it does.
Again you're tempting discussion to go into a number of other matters, and I respect you enough not to rehash those between us when we don't have good agreement on definitions as shown by the main issue I commented on, i.e. Masonry is a judgment upon Jew and Gentile alike, as the verse suggests. If you think Masonry benefits Jews above Gentiles in some endemic way rather than benefiting satanism above any racial class, that's what I was going after and you haven't "gotten that" yet.
Yeah an ex-emokoyer who was a Izzy idfaggit soldier back in the day, he died recently, he was a Freemason. Went to his house one day, nicest house in this hood, and he had Freemason shit all over the house. Gross ass mf
You gotta beware these guys. In that 4205 pages, epic conspiracy research book I just wrapped up the other day.. one part lately, was analyzing what the deal was with Shriners.
Didn't know in recent years they changed the requirements. I think they used to have to be 32nd degree. They're all getting old and dying off like newspaper readers. So they lowered the requirement and it was something like you only needed to be a master mason, 3rd level.
Hang on, looking this up to get better numbers.
"The Change
When it happened: The requirement for these "higher" degrees was officially removed in 2000.
Current Requirement: Today, any Master Mason (3rd Degree) in good standing is eligible to become a Shriner."
In the 70's it would have been a big deal, seeing these guys around. But I kept on analyzing them. Years ago, on instagram, when I was in the middle of getting the bling props from China, for filming music videos.. when checking who's following somebody it would be sorted by most recent. I was researching about satanists, witches. And go into real Shriners. You'd see these types of guys. The "vibe" you get off them. They seem "off", like something's "shady".
We kept on analyzing what the deal was with these guys. It's how, to be a freemason, you can't have a criminal record. What were these types of guys like, in high school. They weren't nerds too much, but they weren't good at sports. Or the "hot guys", or the "bad boys". They were kind of like middle of the road.
The 33rd though, you go to the temple in washington DC, and the president shows up. Those were more "winners" and less aloof nerds.
They get these shriner guys to drive kids across the country, or over the border, to bring kids to the shriner's hospitals. They can be trusted alone with the kids. Yeah cause parents gotta work to pay for medical bills.
What I noticed about the vibe with a lot of these real shriners.. they'll have a wife but they got this odd look on their face, like something's going on behind closed doors. This pervertness.
Also too, these types of guys who get into an organization where they can work hard, climb the ladder. Rewards. Who goes into groups like that. You get a bit of a read about these types of characters. There's gonna be something hidden about them, but in the real world, they're straight laced. They don't do illegal stuff where they could get a criminal record, or wind up in jail. So they won't be breaking the law, smoking pot, being a bad boy, back in those days. Drinking and driving. The party crowd, eh, back in high school. So they're more like don't break the rules. And these secret societies like those types. But at that level they do totally illegal stuff. They'll put the round sticker things on their cars in case cops pull them over. Like transporting kids, almost like child trafficking. But cops are mid level illuminati so.. they'll let them slide, by that shriners and freemason round sticker.
So there's gonna be similarities going on with your "buddy". You could sense something was "off", and shady that they're hiding. Real pedophiles are often like that. They won't have a criminal record. But they could have been aloof in high school, where they don't have a girlfriend and aren't "normal".
What was going on with this place though. Might of had who knows what in the basement, secret rooms. lol.
This is like the post yesterday about the old masonic engravings and they pull out this huge baphomet statue they haul around on poles. Well, how'd they haul that into the lodge, right. Probably when they're building it and people would think it's covered equipment. They'd have a secret entrace room down there, that they stash this stuff.
Nice job.
The "three mysterious letters" from right to left are just "yuh yee ya". Probably a code I've seen before, if it comes to mind I'll let you know.