Since this field gets little traction here, I anticipate very little interest in this challenge.
-
Two billion Christians are committed to a record (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) indicating we are now in the 6,018th year of the cosmos (James Ussher: 6,029th).
-
Two billion other theists (mostly Muslims and Jews) are committed to the same record. Jews make this 5786 AM, recognizing that the Seder Olam Rabbah deliberately skipped about a dozen Persian kings, which I reckon as gaps totalling 232 years. Muslims, generally agreeing, also invented the kalam cosmology that teaches a finite beginning in historic times.
-
For the rest of mankind, all written history testifies the universe and earth are thousands of years old; even the Sumerian King List doesn't exaggerate beyond human lifespans of 43,200 years (Enmenluana), and the legendary Buddhists stop with lifespans of 100,000 years, still within the range of thousands and not billions. 200 creation traditions demonstrate the origin of the universe as designed and humanity as a rapid development, as a universal testimony.
-
All written science for 5,000 years [with the exception of a trend begun by Huxley, Darwin, and Wallace about 200 years ago] assumed a similar timeframe of thousands of years and an orderly creation by an external power.
-
Therefore the only exception to this testimony is a demonstrable cabal of antitheists that have invented and declared a "war" on theism and commandeered control of a scientific establishment that censors all other opinions and is sustained by leeched tax money (Stein, Expelled). These follow a pattern of other previous occasional pockets of people (not "scientists" like this time but always religionists) who claim vast age for the universe but who never could catch on due to their inconsistency and infighting (e.g. gnosticism).
-
This cabal relies on an ever-spinning series of cave shadows that are abandoned when they become useless, but during their lifetimes are upheld as "settled science" (finch beaks, Lamarckianism, Peking Man, steady state, hopeful monsters, panspermia, and nowadays dark matter, dark energy, anthropic principle, math universe hypothesis). They rely on parroting of pictographic narratives rather than on deliberative knowledge, such as the new "tree of life", Haeckel's embryos, Miller's tubes, the "march of progress" apes and men, etc. (Wells, Icons of Evolution).
-
One demonstration of the bankruptcy of this position is NASA's admission that neither of two theories, one dating the universe at 9 billion years rounded, and one dating it at 11-18 billion years, can be taken as settled science. If an official repository of old-earth evidence admits that all old-earth theories are suspect because they disagree and the error has not yet been discerned, then there is no proof of old earth.
Flat earth tier post
I don't think it is, I think there is a timeline conspiracy. I don't think the universe is billions of years old and I think the 'proof' of carbon dating is flawed to their bias.
Maybe, but “the Bible” and “6 gorillion jews agree with me” aren’t proof
They're better than the opposition in currency, history, and quality.
Golly I guess that settles that
Yeah, it is FE tier. It's a post about someone not understanding reality and then asking everyone else to prove it. And then moving goal posts when someone does.
I thought I'd experiment with the "prove me wrong" concept that is so popular on this site. I'm learning one thing about the experiment, namely what idiots do with such an offer. Anyway, I don't see evidence that I fail to understand reality, that my request is problematic, or that I moved any goalposts.
Beginning with a failed argument of guilt by association increases the likelihood the other side has nothing. Thanks Graph.
Beginning with disingenuous arguments and the logical fallacy of “prove me wrong” increases the likelihood that your side has nothing. YW.
How is "prove me wrong" a fallacy? I'm declaring open-mindedness to evidence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
I don't argue from ignorance but from some knowledge of the opposition. If the opposition had something I'm ignorant of they could just bring it out and have me evaluate it. You're continuing to dilate by not doing so. This is a forum for questioning everything and I'm not aware that questioning the cabal about the alleged age of the universe (which BTW gives credence to their ability to claim authority for everything else they do) is against the community's inquiry goals.
That’s great. I wasn’t suggesting your post be removed (is that not obvious?) just that you get some better evidence than “a bunch of retards agree with me”
I have plenty of evidence in reserve, that's why I made it in the form of a post I don't care about the progress of. The question I ask is whether there is any opposed evidence in reserve.
I really have to agree with a stormfaggot?
Edit : Lol, Graph downvotes me immediately despite us being on the same side here.
Wrong. I was the second downvote, and only because you said I was the first, fag
Yeah, I just hate you, even if we happen to agree.
If we ever agreed, I'd swap sides.
Literally your argument.
Inb4 “achsully the speed of light is changing. Don’t ask me for the how, or the why, just shut up and worship zionism”
Good for you! Did you want to discuss how lightspeed decay was developed by many as an alternative explanation to overcome the mainstream's failure to address the horizon problem of homogeneity across the universe?
No, I want to hear some kind of proposed mechanism and evidence of observation, otherwise “CDK” is nothing more than “dark energy” which you cry about elsewhere
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Variable_speed_of_light&oldid=1314727386
If you want to compare "CDK" against "dark energy" on equal footing, that might be a fun argument. Would you like me to preclude the argument with my initial impression, or would you like to try to pursue the discussion productively?
Is that the one where people thought the Universe was physically infinite and therefore should have no darkness in the night sky? Because it’s not, and therefore it does.
Correct.
But no, "the horizon problem (also known as the homogeneity problem) is a cosmological fine-tuning problem within the Big Bang model of the universe. It arises due to the difficulty in explaining the observed homogeneity of causally disconnected regions of space in the absence of a mechanism that sets the same initial conditions everywhere. It was first pointed out by Wolfgang Rindler in 1956. The most commonly accepted solution is cosmic inflation. Different solutions propose a cyclic universe or a variable speed of light."
Thank you for your slightly higher-effort other response, maybe I'll get to parts that pass Turing.
I don’t understand why the example on the page is a “problem” in the first place.
Why would this be contrary to expectations? THE UNIVERSE HAS EXPANDED. Ten billion years ago, THE GALAXIES WERE CLOSER TO EACH OTHER, and thus, if we’re seeing them in that way now, they would appear with greater homogeneity. Indeed, because the current assumption is that the Universe has, at least in the past, expanded physically faster than the speed of light, the “distance > time” “problem” doesn’t exist because… they were then either coterminous or at least causally linked.
Or you can just kill yourself for being wrong about everything you say.
The horizon problem was proposed when there was not an agreement on inflation. Some VSL proposals are inspired by doubts of inflation, others are inspired by inconsistencies in redshift calculation. I suppose I was hasty to lead with the horizon problem as indicative of several benefits VSL provided compared to the billion-year model, but that doesn't invalidate the proposals. What I asked for in title though was proof of your assertion that there were ten billion years. Since I trust you have not yet begun to fight, I await defense by anyone that the stuff they were programmed in school actually had merit.
What assertion, moishe? There weren’t just six thousand years is my assertion. You are proven wrong by observable reality. Just run along now.
I said nothing about the failed apologetic of "light trails", therefore your disproving them doesn't speak to the subject. The mainstream theory of lightspeed invariance has been challenged by peer-reviewed inquiry and does not agree with the history of light measurement since the 19th century, which is consistent with lightspeed decay, mooting the whole point. A number of other young-universe and young-earth indicators could be brought forward to testify against lightspeed invariance.
Funny how I came up with it myself, so I can’t see how you’d know anything about it. Almost as though your entire worldview is a known hoax or something.
One belief in his worldview is "Jesus saves." So if his "ENTIRE" worldview is a known hoax, Jesus doesn't save??
entirePlenty ofWhat parts are a hoax?
His conception of “Jesus” sits outside every written history thereof.
Jesus, God the Son, you mean. I think you were upset because I take Romans 11 literally. When you use your favorite card, unstated minor premise, to connect the dots from that all the way to my having an ahistorical Jesus (but OP literally links a defense of the historical Jesus, twice), you're overplaying your hand.
Which you do.
The OP, with help from Bill Craig.
Jesus's self-concept, each detail attested by multiple independent sources, included being Christ, unique Son of God, unique Son of Man, king of God's kingdom, unique teacher of Israel, unique forgiver of sins against God, and a wonder worker.
The evidence Jesus claimed these things is fully comparable to the generally accepted historical evidence that others like Julius Caesar claimed these or similar things.
The same evidence shows Jesus had high personal morality, sanity, and character with no signs of deception or lunacy.
Theories that Jesus's self-concept was inaccurate do not account for the historical fact that that self-concept was attested and therefore conceived by someone at least as unique as the self-concept itself was.
The accuracy of Jesus's self-concept, in which he had access to powers of the Cosmos, is the theory with best explanatory power.
Sounds like you were indoctrinated into believing that light has been traveling towards us for billions of years, so much so that you independently created what you would regard as the primary go-to theory of a person opposed to that view. It is true that light trails were an attempted explanation. But my thinking you were referring to the past attempts instead of inventing something fresh doesn't indicate that what I put forward was the hoax when it doesn't refer to or require it.
However, until recently, there was no assumption that starlight would necessarily contradict the earth's evidences of age in the thousands of years. Rather, it might interest you, Edgar Allan Poe put forward one of the first proofs that the universe had a finite boundary: the stars do not go on in distance forever since otherwise they would flood the night sky with light. This was judged as being a proof of recent creation and came long before lightspeed had been settled as a standard. So if you wanted to try to prove old earth by establishing your apparent predilection for long travel, feel free.
Dismissed as false.
This is about proving OP wrong. OP has evidence, you don't. You're being dilatory. Feel free to keep trying not to though, you might get a lot of sheqalim out of this thread if I keep playing.
Thanks for admitting that you have absolutely nothing to defend your psychotic claims that violate the laws of physics.
All known theories violate the laws of physics in one place or another, all scientists admit their theories are incomplete. Look at the article I linked on VSL and ask why there are several peer-reviewed theories and the subject keeps coming up due to incompleteness in the standard model.
Anyway, your ordinary retort is not how I proposed the debate. I asked if you'd like to prove me wrong, which is not done with claiming I have nothing, because I could just go on with the things I have. Also there's no reason for you as a Christian to take your ordinary approach against a Christian topic, very botlike. (If humanity is millions of years old, death didn't come into the world by one man Adam, which makes Jesus's power to be supersessionist very sketchy.) As long as you're having fun with it and people are informed and you're pretending to try to prove me wrong ....
Thanks Brain! You provide good questions, and yet the issue I asked about is whether the range is thousands or billions. So I'm not focusing on the Sumerians being wrong because even if they're right they're still evidence on the thousands side. The issue is that all humanity had a vast consensus on the thousands side until some cabal members instituted a cleaver takeover with Darwin as frontman until they coopted a scientific establishment on the subject so that censorship could be enforced.
I recognize that a couple Hindu passages can be read as finding ancient dates, but this becomes cherry-picking from what are obviously mathematical conceptual epochs that have no reference to history. So that minority testimony shouldn't affect the overall argument: if the cherry-picking happens to be right that can't be determined by its context but only by other evidence.
So your first link does exactly that, picks a date and then supports it from science. But it rapidly descends into just the kind of rarefied numerology that others do. Real numerology is accurate and supportive, fake is often inaccurate and usually an appeal to authority. In this case your source admits our universe's "total life span is 311.04 trillion human years" (after pulling an epoch of 13 billion out of that as if it's significant because a close match). Immediately after this "hit", the article gives a "miss" by claiming "the perimeter of the (Vedic) universe ... =~ 14 trillion miles" and then bypassing the fact that this is not the universe's estimated perimeter of sextillions to septillions of miles. It deflects by comparing roughly to the light-day, except that would be a radius and not a perimeter (and I'm not checking the original language on that). It says "navagarha" (which can mean "nine planets"), referring in its context to sun, moon, classical five, north, and south, actually refers to the nine planets recognized in a very narrow era (1930-2006) even though now we have 8 planets and several dwarf planets. So the two links contain a few interesting hits but that doesn't tell us how much has been missed. Detailed review would likely show further cherry-picking. But at least I can say, for conspiracy purposes, that the cabal is obviously inspired by Hinduism, as they acknowledge at CERN!
Yes, adaptation of knowledge is good, and that's the spirit of OP. VSL shows that science still hasn't adapted to the contradictions inherent in old-earth theory, and so I am contributing to that dialogue. You dissuade me from an old book series but also refer me to another old book series as your primary argument. My approach, after questioning all the book series in my youth, was to fit knowledge together that I was certain of until I could be confident I had a sufficiently consistent whole. In that whole, VSL (or some other variability) is important because no theory successfully explains all the data; and I find it to be the inference to the best explanation available. I find it established that no consistent proof exists of billions of years past.
It's true enough that Christians have used the power of censorship as well as the modern scientific establishment. In an ideal inquiry the truth would be arrived at in time, and perhaps this world does ultimately host an ideal inquiry on any point. If I were writing to constitute positive proof, though, or wanted to act to facilitate others immediately in believing this, I'd be much more thorough (and might still, but it's not a priority); instead I conceived of writing here to seek the best proofs stated of the alternative, and I'm coming to the conclusion the community has very little. (If I wanted to pass as an evolutionist I could fake a pretty good argument myself and at least give the OP a run for its money.)
But it's clear that the community is not that interested in "prove me wrong" framing: as a group, they prefer the stock-exchange version where everyone screams at the top of their lungs and somehow business gets done in spite of it. So I'll keep that in mind.
Obvious bad faith post, no surprises there.
"Making a prediction is bad faith!"
What an odd argument.
You're not proving me wrong either Weedle, no surprises there.
Fossils have been found that are older than that. You can go see them.
Also, if you believe the Christcuck version of history, you believe humans coexisted with dinosaurs, yet there's no evidence of this anywhere.
Well, except for every culture on earth talking about dragons
🚨 RETARD ALERT 🚨
its a jewish subversion account. dont interact
Im well acquainted:
https://communities.win/c/KotakuInAction2/p/15K6JXX6Sl/impy/c
https://i.imgflip.com/6ww88b.jpg
No depiction of dragons even remotely resembles dinosaurs.
Golly I guess that settles that
That's prima facie false even before we look at records like Job 40-41. Dragons are clearly very large scaled reptiles like tyrannosaurs and apatosaurs.
Mhm, and the Grok logo definitely doesn't resemble a black hole at all. No siree.
You're not indicating evidence. Over all this time, bones have never been taken as evidence for more than thousands of years until radiometric dating theory was recently invented based on uniformitarian assumptions that do not reflect the catastropic view of history that records attest. Dating results routinely contradict each other and are thrown out, as I anticipated with NASA evidence. Further, the same cabal was repeatedly caught modifying fossils and inventing evidences, leading to several notable hoaxes. Tracing the actual evidence also regularly discovers a telephone game in which rocks and fossils are dated based on each other by circular argument. Yet polystrate fossils, soft-tissue preservation, and the nonexistence of a complete theorized "geologic column" anywhere on earth are examples that indicate the establishment mythology driving the circle.
There are plenty of historical records (petroglyphs, artworks, narratives) of human coexistence with giant reptiles (usually regarded as legendary cryptids like dragons). The myth of noncontemporaneity is another cabal invention.