Why are you trying so hard to convince me
I’m not. I would never seek to convince [manipulate] you of anything.
I was just answering your questions and providing the evidence you requested.
You seem to have trouble following conversation :(
You think just because you question things that everyone knows is true, that it makes you better than them
Not exactly. I recognize that it makes me a better skeptic, and thus student, than they are - but no, it doesn’t make me categorically “better” than them.
Recognizing the half life on facts does make me more knowledgeable. Many things “everyone knows is true” are false, and this is historically always the case. Denying this fact is proud, ignorant, and stupid.
You flatheads just say things and think people should take your word for it
There are no flatheads, that’s a heavily advertised (i.e. funded) pyop.
I am a flat earth researcher, and advocate the absolute opposite perspective. You should NEVER take my word, nor anyone else’s, and need to thoroughly validate all claims you encounter (of which facts are merely one type) before you accept them. Failure to do this causes one to believe all manner of stupid nonsense.
Just being insulting and arrogant is not enough
Practice what you preach, friend :). This is good advice, and very true. You might try taking it to heart and implementing it yourself...
One of us is insulting and condescending... Can you tell which one it is?
Merely having and sharing perspectives that you disagree with is not insulting nor condescending. Don’t be silly!
Regardless what you think of Carl Sagan
I’m a fan, and i agree wholeheartedly.
The burden of proof is on you
I disagree (outside of the silly game of debate, in which it is a rule). The burden is on all of us, and proof is not something that anyone can give another (it’s far too subjective). Proof must and can only be obtained (and determined/defined) by each of us, for ourselves. However, we can work together to help in that process and i think we all best help one another as much as possible. Many hands make light work.
Evidence abounds, and i am happy to share it with you. Wether it can, would, or should serve as proof to you is entirely subjective, and ought to be!
In any case, the claim that the earth is spherical/oblate spheroid is a seriously extraordinary one, which does - as sagan rightly points out - require commensurately extraordinary evidence to support it. It is largely through the rigorous and rationally critical evaluation of such evidences that i have concluded that the claim is not supported nor scientifically consistent.
Similarly with the claim that nuclear weapons exist and are real, i find that extraordinary evidence conspicuously absent. Of course, there is more evidence than that distinct lack of evidence to support my conclusion - however, by “sagan’s maxim” it isn’t strictly necessary.
You have offered nothing so far, let's see what you've got
As i said, the best way to get a specific answer is to ask as specific a question as possible! As much as i would like to “brain dump” everything about the subject to you - we have to use imprecise and tedious words instead. The footage of supposed “nuclear weapons” is laughably fake, and as that is the primary evidence of their reality - we are already not off to a good start verifying the claim that they are real.
It is well known that japan had been firebombed to oblivion and was already completely willing for surrender. The infrastructure of neither hiroshima nor nagasaki were “obliterated” even on a small “ground zero” scale and the buildings there remained largely undamaged by the propaganda of “the ultimate weapon” unleashed on them.
The sunken ships supposedly tested upon at bikini atol are equally in tact and not radioactive - and those were supposedly tested against with hydrogen bombs orders of magnitude more powerful than the only ones ever used in warfare.
The fact is you have nothing but unwavering faith that nuclear weapons exist, as we are supposed to as a result of conditioning by rote under the guise of education from childhood. The burden to thoroughly verify things before we accept them as true, always falls on the student (us).
I never said anything about youtube and certainly never said it is "good".
Are you doing ok? You seem very upset about something :(
You said that believing everything on bitchute made you stupid. I agreed and added youtube (and furthermore any/all sources of media) to the list of sources to which that statement also applies. You are still bitching about it for some reason :(
I was agreeing with you. Are you really incapable of dropping your adversarial hard-on for a second to recognize that?
So instead of addressing ANY of the many points I made
I’ve addressed most all of them. You responded with “blah blah blah” because you don’t discuss earnestly, and engage in bad faith :(
It’s your life. Spend it how you wish, but i urge you to reconsider.
So instead of addressing ANY of the many points I made - you
Then when i address the points you make ...
Blah, blah, blah. [i’m ignoring you] - also you
:(
You can stick your fingers in your ears and yell “i can’t hear you” like a child if you wish. I can’t stop you, but don’t be surprised when you don’t learn anything new.
what makes you think that?
Study into the topic and its history.
Nuclear armageddon is fear porn propaganda propagated entirely through the television. Nuclear weapons don’t exist.
something you aren't smart enough to understand.
This isn’t really about “smarts”. The smartest amongst us can be fooled. In any case, try to direct your responses to the content, and not engage in vapid ad-hominem.
When are you going to start?
Whenever you want! I’ve already shared plenty of facts - perhaps you would like to discuss the science that underpins them? The best way to understand and get specific answer, is to ask specific questions!
is be condescending and arrogant while offering no evidence for anything
It is not my intent to be condescending or arrogant - quite the opposite. My apologies if i have come across that way to you. I also have lots of evidence to offer - just ask!
How can you talk about "facts and science" if you blatantly disregard all the places where that information is stored and presented?
No one is advocating to “blatant disregard” anything but belief! The burden to thoroughly validate all claims (including “facts”, merely one type of claim) before accepting them always falls on the student. That’s all i’m saying.
One of the most wonderful things about science is that it requires no belief and is, in fact, hindered by it. So it is with all knowledge.
You are being dishonest by claiming that doing so makes that knowledge illegitimate
That would be dishonest, i agree. You are misunderstanding me.
It makes you a consoomerist sheep.
I largely agree with you. Research takes many forms (including discussion with others, and watching/evaluating videos/media) - but my particular approach focuses on science and the history thereof. You have likely not encountered earnest flat earth researchers such as myself before. Your criticisms are for and of “flat earthers” of the heavily advertised (i.e. funded) flat earth psyop.
Like the shape of every other heavenly body that we can see with a cheap telescope?
If i say, “gee, that cloud looks like a bunny” and then point at the cloud - you are quite likely to see the bunny resemblance. If i merely point at the cloud and say “gee, that cloud really looks like something”, you are very unlikely to see the bunny.
Expectation has a profound impact on interpretation. In science, it is known as “bias” and it is a four letter word.
What we see in the sky are certainly circular. Spherical is an assumption - a bias introduced through astronomy.
In any case, even assuming they were all spherical (a pathetically common and encouraged assumption/bias) it would have no necessary relevance to the shape of the world. Looking in the sky (the literal opposite direction) for the shape of the earth is both unscientific and powerful stupid.
The Earth is not a sphere. No one ever said that it was
Of course they did, but this semantic non-sequitur is irrelevant anyway. Spheroid, ellipsoid - whatever you like. I say a grape is spherical; it’s not a perfect sphere either, don’t get bogged down in needless pedantry if you can help it!
Ok, so in the cold war both sides agreed to trick everyone into thinking we went to the moon?
The truth is stranger than fiction because fiction is obliged to possibility. I know full well, and understand, why the things i say seem so absurd to you. If you want to understand what i am saying, how i have concluded them, and why - you should ask questions! Otherwise, continue to believe the fictional state sanctioned narrative you currently do. I won’t stop you!
They left things on the moon which can be seen from Earth.
Lol. Why do you think this? Who do you think has seen such things from the earth?
I have told you that you are wrong and you cry about it
Clearly you have misunderstood me. Could you cite/quote what i said that you interpreted as “crying”?
You are too dumb to understand basic physics
This is a silly and vain assumption on your part. However, it is understandable. How could someone that understands (and even likes!) physics ever say such things?!
If you want to know and understand the answer to that question, you will have to earnestly discuss it with me. It takes little more than some time and your earnest interest. Or you can keep being blinded by prejudice/bias and incredulity as a means to prevent and avoid civil rational discussion at all costs.... Up to you!
The pride and arrogance are yours, brother or sister. I am not better than you simply because i am more knowledgeable.
I never mentioned youtube
Sure, but you disagree? Bitchute = bad but youtube = good? Surely you don’t believe that!?
try to win an argument
Only idiots/fools argue. I only seek to discuss! You can’t win a discussion, but you can lose the point of it.
You are free to discuss back without fear of “losing”! Direct your responses at the content, not the speaker (ad hominem)!
It’s actually the inverse.
(I believe) Everything is real which makes me dumb :(
The intelligent question and doubt, the stupid believe.
Nuclear reactions are real (something more like a thermite reaction), but nuclear weapons are fear porn which can only be seen on television. It is NOT coincidence that nukes coincide with mass television distribution.
A “noble lie” to “end war” (resistance) :(
Nuclear weapons are as fake and gay as neovaginas.
Ama!
When did I mention TV?
You didn’t, you mentioned your belief in something that only ever happened on tv [screens].
Why can't you flatheads ever talk about the facts
I’m not a “flathead”, but i do like talking about facts and science! What i shared with you was a fact; we didn’t go to the moon. But i understand why you have difficulty recognizing that as true, and respect that (as a lone “fact”) you don’t currently see any reason to accept that fact.
One photo of the edge of the Earth or the ice wall is all it would take to convince me
But don’t you see that that is the whole problem i’m criticizing?! If you believe what you see on the screens - in pictures, in videos, even in books - you will end up believing all manner of fictional nonsense. That’s why you think we went to the moon!
I am a flat earth researcher, not a flat earther (the latter of which is primarily a psyop, and not a real group anyway). My position is not that the world is flat, or that there is a giant ice wall surrounding it, or even that it has an edge at all (it might not!). My position is that the world is not spherical the way we have been taught, and that that is not a scientifically sound suggestion for its shape (it would violate natural laws).
However, this is a little off topic to the current one. The moon doesn’t have any inherent relevance to the shape of the earth, and the fact that “going to the moon” was a tv special feature of a cold war psyop to distract from very real (and serially unaddressed) civil rights/iniquity in society also has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.
In any case, i don’t want to convince (i.e. manipulate) you or anyone. I’m interested in the collaborative pursuit of truth (validated fact will suffice!) through earnest research and rational discourse. One reason i share my perspectives is to subject them to criticism in the hopes of refinement. If i am wrong, i should like to know it - and know how i can validate that knowledge! How about you?
Or youtube, we are in complete agreement!
I should have clarified, “tv”’s are screens. If you believe everything you see on the screens, you may be beyond help.
I hope you agree!
Yes we did
If you believe everything you see on tv, you may be beyond help :(
This is such a dumb statement to make
It is far dumber to trust the television, and to believe that the moon is a giant rock floating in the sky that never falls. The moon is not a rock, nor is it made of cheese. It can’t be landed upon.
If you want to understand why i say, and how i have concluded, these “stupid” things - please join us on flatearthresearch to discuss it!
But we didn’t get to the moon...
Your perspective is objectively incorrect.
Can you demonstrate that, objectively? If so, please do so!
If i am incorrect, i should like to know it and know how to determine it for myself. How about yourself?
Irony
Your view of my perspective and the OP’s is entirely fictional / contrived / imagined / assumed. The reason you don’t, and can’t, know what it is (and are misunderstanding as a result) - is because you haven’t bothered to learn what the perspective is BEFORE launching into emotional attack :(
You’re paid to post lies here to cover up the truth
No, i’m not. But if i were, what “truth” would i be covering up?
The true purpose of the heavily funded flat earth psyop is to STOP discussion or evaluation of this important subject. It has been so successful, that now it is used as a well poisoner - but that is a “fringe benefit”.
My hostility is completely reasonable when your goal is the genocide of my entire race.
That is a crazy “equivalence”. Do you really think that discussing or merely questioning the true shape of the world is the same as wanting to “genocide your race”? Don’t be silly. Direct the hostility where it is appropriate (like to people trying to genocide you or your people/family/community)!
No, you’re not.
Well, i’m trying to anyway! If we both try to communicate earnestly we have a good shot at succeeding. If you continue to not want to do that, i can’t and won’t stop you.
Anyhow, let’s try to earnestly discuss from here on out?
The first one in the list
Fair enough.
Why can everyone south of the equator see the exact same stars rotating in the same direction around the same fixed central point in the sky due south of them if they’re supposedly all looking in different directions?
Likely for the same reason we can north of the equator.
Fundamentally, looking for the shape of the world by studying in the opposite direction of it (the sky) is unscientific and stupid.
The sky and the lights in it do what they do, and the earth is whatever shape it is. The silly belief that they must be linked is just a bias encouraged by astronomy.
Ingrained in this question is circular logic.
Premise : The world is spherical.
Observation : The stars appear to move above our heads similarly north and south of the equator.
Conclusion : The world must be spherical.
The sky has nothing to do with the shape of the world.
It was more of a joke about how there is no direct evidence we are indeed on a round planet. There is also no available evidence that proves we are on a flat earth.
I think both statements are incorrect. Evidence is easy/trivial. When people believed in zeus throwing lightning bolts and crying tears to make rain - they had plenty of “evidence”. When people today want to believe any “fact” - evidence abounds and for the same reasons it did then.
There is evidence to support, ostensibly anyhow, that the earth is spherical - which is partially why it has been believed for so long. There is also evidence to support that the world is not spherical the way we are taught, and cannot be. In my view/experience/research the evidence is MUCH stronger and more scientifically consistent with the latter view. But evidence most often doesn’t prove something true the way we would hope/like. Just because something has evidence supporting it, doesn’t make it correct (or vice versa) - right?
they needed an explanation, someone created one and provided it, since that time it has been used.
I roughly agree.
I have no interest in the topic
Fair enough! It’s not for everybody, but it is an extremely valuable and rewarding subject if pursued earnestly. It’s not really so much about the shape of the world, but more about discerning what you know from what you believe/were conditioned to parrot, determining how to validate such knowledge, and how to best share that knowledge and its validation with others. In our regrettable “infowar” era, these are critical skills that the vast majority of us lack and are trained to neglect.
Once the evidence is worthy, I will find it in memes.
There are many such memes available. But memes are marketing tools - “ads” effectively. They are for convincing/manipulation, not for teaching, learning or research.
In my view it is more fundamental to recognize that the original spherical posit (and evidences supporting it) is unworthy (scientifically, historically, etc.) than it is to recognize alternative posits worthy based on some contrived evidence to ostensibly support them.
If you want to talk about the control structures that are subverting the people and everything else then I am inclined to listen and learn what you got.
Sounds good to me! However, i am interested in collaborative discussion and exchange - not lecture! I am merely a fellow student, not a teacher.
I would say that the most fundamental control structures are “education”/“media” (conditioning by rote from childhood under the guise of education) and “money”. Money and education don’t have to be the yokes that they demonstrably are, but we have allowed them to be controlled by our enemy, the slavers/profiteers, to our express detriment.
The Earth is not flat
My perspective is that the world is not spherical the way we are taught. Not that the earth is flat. You are simply misunderstanding because you insanely assume you know what the person’s perspective is BEFORE you learn about it. That’s stupid, AND crazy. You aren’t a psychic and your perception of the “other side’s” position came through advertising and assumption instead of research :(
Ask some questions!
SO ANSWER MY FUCKING QUESTIONS IF YOU’RE NOT A BOT.
I could answer the questions the same way you “asked” them, by copypasta. But what would be the point? I am interested in earnest discussion, not wasting time. If you actually want an answer to your question(s) and are not merely disingenuously pretending to “ask” them to “humiliate and expose paid shills” - then let’s start with your most important question first. What is it?
Your hostility is completely unreasonable and not the perspective of any sort of learned person. You have been encouraged to be hostile through advertising... That misplaced and counterproductive hostility is only a defense mechanism to avoid ever earnestly discussing :(
Truth is not a matter of opinion.
If only it were so simple. I agree that objective truth exists, and can possibly be obtained. However most of the time people talk about “truth” they are talking about flawed (religious) belief, and are wrong/incorrect. In any case, we aren’t talking about truth - we are talking about fact. Almost all facts have a half-life to them, and facts are not as reliable as objective truth (which is illusive and hard, if not impossible, to fully verify). Facts are not truth, and you would do well to keep that distinction in mind.
No one cares
I’m not talking to everyone or “no one” - I am talking to you! It is important that you care to have an earnest discussion and to understand. Otherwise you can’t and won’t ever do, or be able to do, so. If you can’t discuss differing viewpoints, you can’t ever learn about them. I think this is what OP meant by “not ready”. You don’t care, and you aren’t willing to learn or evaluate as a result. But you could reconsider anytime, and if you don’t - you will only continue to insulate yourself from new ideas.
Many of the “facts” we have been taught are untrue. Do you disagree? Every fact we have been taught is “truth” handed from god themselves? People are never wrong? This seems to be your position...
answer the questions
It would be a waste of time if you aren’t ACTUALLY asking them and earnestly interested to explore the answers. But for an illustrative example of what i mean, why don’t you choose the most important question to begin discussing!
Thank you for admitting the Earth is not flat
Don’t act like a bot if you can help it :( Bots can’t read, and can only respond with their preprogrammed copypasta. Do better if you are at all capable.
You’re mentally defective or you’re paid to post lies. That’s it.
You completely misunderstand. As i said, you won’t take the time to understand what my (or the OP’s) perspective actually is. So instead you continue to misunderstand and beat an imaginary strawman. Try asking a question instead! I am not claiming to have secret knowledge, or be special.
In fairness to you, there are a lot of those “paid to post lies” and/or influenced by them. I’m just not one of them.
I have misunderstood nothing
You have misunderstood what the other persons perspective actually is, because you didn’t bother to ask any questions about it. You can’t possibly understand the perspective of another without first discussing it. Your understanding of the situation has been heavily advertised to you, and it doesn’t exist in reality. OP has their view, i have mine; and in order to understand either you have to ask questions first! Is that so crazy?
Literally did. You refuse to answer.
Again you are talking like a bot :(. You asked the OP a list of “questions” based on your misunderstanding of their perspective...
In fairness, i might have given a similar answer had you copypasta’d that waste of time towards me.
I enjoy this subject, and discussion about it, immensely. I am happy to discuss it at length with anyone earnest, and refuse no one but the disearnest. You sadly seem like the latter, but if you would like to actually ask a question and discuss the answer together - i’m happy to do that! Every question you “asked” has an answer, but i can already tell you that if you only ask such questions to mock and feel better about belief in your own views, you will not be satisfied by them and it is a wasted effort. This is what OP likely meant by saying you weren’t ready.
Yes
Would you care to share and discuss what you did to prove it, and how others could do the same? That is a major focus in the subject of flat earth research, and it could help many others!
if you promise me some nice full body earth shots without any photoshop mods
Lol, there are no such shots regardless of the shape of the world :(. The ones from nasa et al that aren’t photoshopped (i.e. art built of composites) are clearly fraudulent (have no consistency - land mass sizes are all wrong etc.)
In any case, i have many pictures of bigfoot, ghosts, and the loch ness monster for you (all not photoshopped) if you want to base your reality on unreliable photos.
On the other hand, there are more reliable ways to determine the shape of the world than abject appeal to authority and belief in their “photos” that are well worth discussing/exploring if you are interested!
Wether astronomy or astrology - the key is to get ‘em young.
The reason we end up believing in such things, is because we never knew them in the first place. If we learned what science was properly we could easily distinguish between which parts of astronomy are actual science and which are mythology/pseudoscience/religion under its guise.
To all with an interest in this topic - Please join us on flatearthresearch to discuss further!
They already told you. You aren’t ready (and/or interested) for it.
Explaining what you have misunderstood will take time. Suffice it to say that you don’t really understand the “other side’s” position and won’t take the time to ask what it is or learn about it :(
Earth isn’t flat.
Perhaps not, but can you prove what shape it actually is? And more importantly, have you?
Would you even know where to begin? This is what flat earth research (including, but not limited to, geodesy) is all about!
Wheels within wheels!
Orbit is fiction.
True. The flat earth psyop is entirely real, and this website is a great example of it.
Why would anyone feel the need to further advertise that an ostensibly stupid idea (the world is flat) needs to be avoided because it is too stupid to bother with?
Methinks the woman doth protest too much - eh?
Please join us on flatearthresearch to further discuss the psyop and the reasons for its massive funding!
The answer is because the shape of the world isn’t a “conspiracy”. People are merely wrong about it being spherical.
They all believe it is, nothing in their lives depends on that sphericity, and so they have no reason to “blow any whistle”.
Please join us on flatearthresearch to discuss further and exchange views!
I think discussing such a “hoax”, should it exist, is across purposes.
“Hoax” this and “conspiracy” that has the (typically intended) effect of driving people AWAY from important topics.
Instead, why not explain that gravitation is merely fiction. A mathematical contrivance that doesn’t exist outside of equation; and newton was well aware of that fact when he invoked it. We can read that admission in his own pen, if we want - and requires no “conspiracy” nor “hoax”.
To anyone interested in this important topic, understanding what other views exist (and why!) on the topic of gravity and gravitation, or simply want to share your own views - please join us on flatearthresearch to do that!
The feeling is mutual. But you are free to believe whatever fantasy you like.
On the other hand, if you want to know instead of merely believe - you should put some effort in and ask questions!