All the quotes you brought up do not deny that the Jews that reject Jesus are a “child of the devil” .... Bottom line is that the Jews(ones that deny Jesus) are “children of the devil” as a whole and are not the “chosen people of God”. They should be treated like any other group of people.
Essentially correct, anyone who rejects Jesus is a servant or child of the devil (slight diff involved), and they should be evangelized like any people. Keep in mind that a Lifeway survey finds there are about a million Jews who believe Jesus is the Messiah, out of about 15 million Jews in all, so I usually say Rabbinical Jews to distinguish from Messianic Jews. The only difficulty is that it's uncharitable to relegate any whole to the devil when it is our job to spread the good news winsomely (i.e. not to destroy culture but to work within culture and only destroy what is an obvious sin). Much of what's said about "the Jews" is stated as if it applies to every innocent man, woman, and child, and so that calls for care.
Interestingly, the KJV only uses the phrase "chosen people" once, for a certain select Gentile army.
When I’m talking about Jews, I’m talking about those who deny Christ.
Correct, you are, and that's not what the Bible does, and it's not what the Messianic Jews (our brothers in Christ) do. The Rabbinical Jews do not have a formal position on Messianic Jews, but the Israeli Supreme Court has ruled that they are halakhically children of Jews even though they do not have full rights (being also Christians). Therefore the proposition that "Jews" automatically means deniers of Christ is not a straightforward use of the word and gets in the way of evangelism.
Further, I've asked for years whether any congregational rabbi or rabbinical organization formally rejects Jesus in plain English, and I've come to find they don't. Rabbinical Judaism does not take a formal position on Jesus because they know what kind of blowback they get when their individual congregants do. I explain to everyone, they're too cagey for that. And that is our opportunity to give them the good news of Jesus the Messiah in the Hebrew Scriptures and their own rabbinical sources.
Therefore the proposition that "Jews" automatically means deniers of Christ is not a straightforward use of the word and gets in the way of evangelism.
Well we’re talking about the norms of Jewish culture, and not the exceptions. Jewish culture is based around seeing Jesus as a heretic, so they have been the enemies of Christian’s ever since it’s inception.
Essentially correct, anyone who rejects Jesus is a servant or child of the devil (slight diff involved), and they should be evangelized like any people
Yeah, rejecting Christ is different from being a pagan though. Rejecting would be having the religious knowledge of the abrahamic religions already and still choosing to hate Jesus. Most Jews hate Jesus because the Jewish traditions see him as a heretic. While most non-Christians view him favorably like Islamist’ or see him as a good man.
Jewish culture is based around seeing Jesus as a heretic, so they have been the enemies of Christian’s ever since it’s inception.
In the first century AD Jewish culture split down two paths, one of which was adopted at large by Gentiles and became called Christianity, and the other of which became rabbinism. But rabbinism was not defined on being the enemy of Christ, but on regrouping after the destruction of the temple. Since all of the first 5,000 Christians and many afterward were Jews, and since many of the first 5,000 were among those who previously called for Jesus's death (Acts 3-4), Jews have not been the enemies of Christians since the inception of the name "Christians"; Christians were just another sect of Jews just like Pharisees. Over a couple centuries, Jewish culture shifted from accepting that there were Christians among the Jews toward trying to avoid the question of why there were Christians at all, and those ethnic, cultural Jews who believed in Jesus became very isolated where they existed at all.
Therefore it seems to me that Jewish culture is based around following Moses and leaving Jesus entirely to the Gentiles, which is why the missionary group Jews For Jesus has, as its motto and goal, making the Messiahship of Jesus an unavoidable issue for Jews worldwide.
Rejecting would be having the religious knowledge of the abrahamic religions already and still choosing to hate Jesus.
Yes, for instance, but that's where we should be careful about charges that someone hates Jesus. Most Jews do not hate the man Jesus, because when someone goes on the record they are usually hating on a false concept that doesn't exist and isn't Jesus. For instance, they're hating a name by which they were wrongly persecuted.
Most Jews hate Jesus because the Jewish traditions see him as a heretic.
Not actually true, I've asked for Jewish tenets on this and they aren't forthcoming. Yes, there are a couple folk-religious documents that view Jesus as a heretic that are not endorsed by any rabbi as Judaism, but Jewish traditions as defined by rabbis are essentially about remaining silent about Jesus's status. There's a new wave among some rabbis who want to reclaim Jesus for Judaism as a good Torah-observant Jew so that other Jews will want to be as Torah-observant as Jesus was. But when individuals speak against Jesus, the rabbis distance themselves from that position officially. I'm open to alternative evidence of course.
TLDR: I see no evidence that Jewish culture is based around seeing Jesus as a heretic, that Jews have been the enemies of Christians ever since the inception of the name Christians, that Jews at large choose to hate Jesus, or that Jewish traditions see Jesus as a heretic.
Most Jews do not hate the man Jesus, because when someone goes on the record they are usually hating on a false concept that doesn't exist and isn't Jesus. For instance, they're hating a name by which they were wrongly persecuted.
This is where we can differ. I can point to everything the Jews have done throughout history, from crucifying Jesus to getting kicked out of 100+ countries to label the Jewish traditions as “rejecting Jesus” and making them “children of the devil”.
Immigration policies about Jews should be the same as the ones for 3rd world migrants. They shouldn’t be allowed in 1st world countries if they promote degeneracy, steal money from it for themselves, and kill its people. There are good Jews, just like migrants. But the good ones don’t out-way the actions of the bad ones.
Jews didn't crucify Jesus. Jews weren't kicked out of 100 countries (#11 on list), the source only gives 12 countries. If cherry-picking allows us to say Jewish traditions reject Jesus, cherry-picking allows our enemies to say American traditions reject Jesus (but America's Constitution says Jesus is Lord, in the date clause). If we can distinguish whole people-groups, including literal children, as devilish based on the crimes of a few, we are condemning the innocent with the guilty, which God forbids from Genesis on.
If you admit there are well-behaved Jews (no one is "good" but God), then we don't get to call Jews children of the devil collectively, that's judging the innocent with the guilty. Something to think about.
Essentially correct, anyone who rejects Jesus is a servant or child of the devil (slight diff involved), and they should be evangelized like any people. Keep in mind that a Lifeway survey finds there are about a million Jews who believe Jesus is the Messiah, out of about 15 million Jews in all, so I usually say Rabbinical Jews to distinguish from Messianic Jews. The only difficulty is that it's uncharitable to relegate any whole to the devil when it is our job to spread the good news winsomely (i.e. not to destroy culture but to work within culture and only destroy what is an obvious sin). Much of what's said about "the Jews" is stated as if it applies to every innocent man, woman, and child, and so that calls for care.
Interestingly, the KJV only uses the phrase "chosen people" once, for a certain select Gentile army.
Correct, you are, and that's not what the Bible does, and it's not what the Messianic Jews (our brothers in Christ) do. The Rabbinical Jews do not have a formal position on Messianic Jews, but the Israeli Supreme Court has ruled that they are halakhically children of Jews even though they do not have full rights (being also Christians). Therefore the proposition that "Jews" automatically means deniers of Christ is not a straightforward use of the word and gets in the way of evangelism.
Further, I've asked for years whether any congregational rabbi or rabbinical organization formally rejects Jesus in plain English, and I've come to find they don't. Rabbinical Judaism does not take a formal position on Jesus because they know what kind of blowback they get when their individual congregants do. I explain to everyone, they're too cagey for that. And that is our opportunity to give them the good news of Jesus the Messiah in the Hebrew Scriptures and their own rabbinical sources.
Well we’re talking about the norms of Jewish culture, and not the exceptions. Jewish culture is based around seeing Jesus as a heretic, so they have been the enemies of Christian’s ever since it’s inception.
Yeah, rejecting Christ is different from being a pagan though. Rejecting would be having the religious knowledge of the abrahamic religions already and still choosing to hate Jesus. Most Jews hate Jesus because the Jewish traditions see him as a heretic. While most non-Christians view him favorably like Islamist’ or see him as a good man.
In the first century AD Jewish culture split down two paths, one of which was adopted at large by Gentiles and became called Christianity, and the other of which became rabbinism. But rabbinism was not defined on being the enemy of Christ, but on regrouping after the destruction of the temple. Since all of the first 5,000 Christians and many afterward were Jews, and since many of the first 5,000 were among those who previously called for Jesus's death (Acts 3-4), Jews have not been the enemies of Christians since the inception of the name "Christians"; Christians were just another sect of Jews just like Pharisees. Over a couple centuries, Jewish culture shifted from accepting that there were Christians among the Jews toward trying to avoid the question of why there were Christians at all, and those ethnic, cultural Jews who believed in Jesus became very isolated where they existed at all.
Therefore it seems to me that Jewish culture is based around following Moses and leaving Jesus entirely to the Gentiles, which is why the missionary group Jews For Jesus has, as its motto and goal, making the Messiahship of Jesus an unavoidable issue for Jews worldwide.
Yes, for instance, but that's where we should be careful about charges that someone hates Jesus. Most Jews do not hate the man Jesus, because when someone goes on the record they are usually hating on a false concept that doesn't exist and isn't Jesus. For instance, they're hating a name by which they were wrongly persecuted.
Not actually true, I've asked for Jewish tenets on this and they aren't forthcoming. Yes, there are a couple folk-religious documents that view Jesus as a heretic that are not endorsed by any rabbi as Judaism, but Jewish traditions as defined by rabbis are essentially about remaining silent about Jesus's status. There's a new wave among some rabbis who want to reclaim Jesus for Judaism as a good Torah-observant Jew so that other Jews will want to be as Torah-observant as Jesus was. But when individuals speak against Jesus, the rabbis distance themselves from that position officially. I'm open to alternative evidence of course.
TLDR: I see no evidence that Jewish culture is based around seeing Jesus as a heretic, that Jews have been the enemies of Christians ever since the inception of the name Christians, that Jews at large choose to hate Jesus, or that Jewish traditions see Jesus as a heretic.
This is where we can differ. I can point to everything the Jews have done throughout history, from crucifying Jesus to getting kicked out of 100+ countries to label the Jewish traditions as “rejecting Jesus” and making them “children of the devil”.
Immigration policies about Jews should be the same as the ones for 3rd world migrants. They shouldn’t be allowed in 1st world countries if they promote degeneracy, steal money from it for themselves, and kill its people. There are good Jews, just like migrants. But the good ones don’t out-way the actions of the bad ones.
Jews didn't crucify Jesus. Jews weren't kicked out of 100 countries (#11 on list), the source only gives 12 countries. If cherry-picking allows us to say Jewish traditions reject Jesus, cherry-picking allows our enemies to say American traditions reject Jesus (but America's Constitution says Jesus is Lord, in the date clause). If we can distinguish whole people-groups, including literal children, as devilish based on the crimes of a few, we are condemning the innocent with the guilty, which God forbids from Genesis on.
If you admit there are well-behaved Jews (no one is "good" but God), then we don't get to call Jews children of the devil collectively, that's judging the innocent with the guilty. Something to think about.