Let me summarize the schizophrenia of this forum when it comes to money:
BTC is going to enslave us all because it's fake money scheme and it's ultimately controlled by tptb. Oh wait, we're already enslaved by Fed printed monopoly money as of 1913 Federal Reserve Act.
Exactly. The shit BTC is getting is irrational given the alternative which we know for a fact is fake slave debt money. Even the hardest skeptics have to admit there is a possibility that BTC is truly decentralized and is less manipulated than fiat money and gold (yes, the gold market has always been in the central banker's hands).
I'll pretend you don't already know this, but it's the fact that it's digital-only that makes it worse than the current fiat. It is designed to replace the current fiat currencies with all of that same enslavement features as the current system, plus full control on how and when you can use it (not to mention the impossibility of anonymity).
That is objectively worse.
I know, I know, but muh BTC isn't like that. Just wait. It will be.
BTC is not CBDC, otherwise I'd agree. BTC will always be an alternative option to the fiat and CBDC beast system which is de facto mandatory. I'd take decentralized digital over centralized physical anytime.
It's only a fork away though. That's the thing. And between BlackRock, Coinbase and the US Government it's pretty easy to force that fork to be the accepted one.
They aren't going to just let people freely use a non-sanctioned currency instead of theirs. And they need a digital-only currency to enforce the control grid.
That's why people talk bad about BTC. It is a backdoor way of tricking people into a CBDC-equivalent.
Seems like a stretch. Normies will adopt CBDC without such elaborate deception just like they always do. BTC nerds will reject forking into CBDC because that would defeat the initial purpose of BTC which is to have decentralized, anonymous and limited money on a public ledger. I know I will. If BTC is ran to the ground so be it, there was always risk involved. But I'm not switching to CBDC if the choice is given.
It shouldn't seem like a stretch. Maybe you misunderstood what I meant by "one fork away". Bitcoin and all cryptos are constantly being updated. Big new forks are released regularly. As they are released, once a majority of nodes adopt the fork it becomes the new mainline.
I wasn't saying it will forked such that ownership goes to a central bank or something like that, I'm saying there will be forks that introduce all of the same track and control functionality that CBDCs are built for, and that BTC will be used in place of a CBDC for the purpose of the control grid.
It's already happened several times where governments have forced extremely popular cryptos to add in functionality to be able to blacklist specific wallets of those they determine to be "terrorists".
That will absolutely come to BTC. There is zero chance it won't. Slippery slope from there to social credit scores.
There won't be an option to "reject" these forks. Businesses will be required to only perform transactions on the approved network. Any fork network will be considered supporting terrorism and you will be fined, shut down or imprisoned.
This isn't far fetched. This is how government control has worked for many, many decades, and it will be extended to digital currencies in the next few years.
Also, BTC is not anonymous. I hope you don't think it is. Be careful how you are using it. The only way to be anonymous is to only use BTC ATMs or purchase directly from other people, and even then there are cameras or deliveries of online orders, etc. Any use of banks or exchanges and you are now linked to every transaction you make.
And the "limited money", the same fork probability exists there. There has already been a ton of talk, in the mainstream, of how BlackRock and Coinbase and others could easily remove the 19 million restriction in the future.
One last point, I think you underestimate the number of people that don't want to give up cash and the anonymity it offers. Sure, 70% will give in to fully digital currency, just like the vaccines, but they need the deception to get to a critical mass of 95% or so.
I wasn't saying it will forked such that ownership goes to a central bank or something like that, I'm saying there will be forks that introduce all of the same track and control functionality that CBDCs are built for, and that BTC will be used in place of a CBDC for the purpose of the control grid.
I don't think the basic infrastructure of BTC can be changed to accommodate the needs of a CBDC. First, once all BTC is mined no new money will be introduced in the system and second it will remain a decentralized, public and open source network, unless One world technocratic entities (governments and corporations) manage to amass most of the BTC.
It's already happened several times where governments have forced extremely popular cryptos to add in functionality to be able to blacklist specific wallets of those they determine to be "terrorists".
That's why I don't argue in favor of cryptos in general but for BTC specifically.
This isn't far fetched. This is how government control has worked for many, many decades, and it will be extended to digital currencies in the next few years.
They said that about torrents 20 years ago and here I am still pirating most of the stuff I use. Seems like the government doesn't fare well cracking down P2P networks.
Also, BTC is not anonymous. I hope you don't think it is. Be careful how you are using it. The only way to be anonymous is to only use BTC ATMs or purchase directly from other people, and even then there are cameras or deliveries of online orders, etc. Any use of banks or exchanges and you are now linked to every transaction you make.
Sure. At least you acknowledge it can be anonymous because I've debated people here on this.
And the "limited money", the same fork probability exists there. There has already been a ton of talk, in the mainstream, of how BlackRock and Coinbase and others could easily remove the 19 million restriction in the future.
This sounds like fud talk. It's probably a campaign shills run to scare people off BTC and into "safer crypto" which is CBDC of course. Similar to the IMF worrying about El Salvador adopting BTC because it would lead to financial instability. They will cancel their loan too because of it. There's definitely a smear campaign against BTC ran by the central banks.
One last point, I think you underestimate the number of people that don't want to give up cash and the anonymity it offers. Sure, 70% will give in to fully digital currency, just like the vaccines, but they need the deception to get to a critical mass of 95% or so.
There are two many ifs and so far nothing has been done in that direction. Once things start happening I may take the "BTC is a stepping stone to CBDC" more seriously. I am well against digitalization and I don't even use a smartphone so I'm very skeptical to begin with but it's all conjecture and fearmongering so far.
I first heard about bitcoin around 2009 or 2010. Very early stages because i was in a decentralized banking community that tried to cut banks out and let end users approve loans.
I didn't trust some digital coin you can't hold. Also didn't trust that it was out of China by some guy named Satoshi.
What's the end game here? I think that the digital coin market will be riddled with massive scams and crimes and that it will all come crashing down and then people will demand CBDC. but before that happens, lots and lots of people and banks and savings accounts and IRA's and 401ks and ETFs and hedge funds need to be burned.
So my prediction, still, is that the rug gets pulled on the entire fake digital currency market with enough of a huge outcry that people DEMAND central bank digital coin backed by the federal government or by a union of world governments.
In the meantime I look like a loser. Friends became rich while i dwelled in paranoia and sat out a huge rise in bitcoin when i could have been mining them with graphics cards way back in 2010
I never understood the "can't hold it in your hand" argument. Do you hold your pdf's and mp3's in your hand (yes, physical copies have pros but so do digital, that's why I own both when it comes to important information)? Does that make them less useful and valuable?
You can hold a Fed banknote in your hand and it still is a piece of paper backed by debt and geopolitics. And this is where the problem of money lies - it's a matter of confidence and acceptance, not of it being physical/digital. Lots of people have confidence in BTC and there is a powerful decentralized network behind it. This is what makes it valuable.
People value what BTC represents. Gold's value is determined the same way - it's representative not intrinsic (it still has intrinsic value as a metal but not as money and most of it's money value comes from how rare and limited it is, which applies even more to BTC).
But there was huge risk in exchanging dollars for digital bitcoins. There was the threat of governments shutting it down. There was the threat of other digital coins stealing marketshare away or improving upon bitcoin and innovating something better that negates it. There was the problem that most of the people using it were criminals on the dark web on silk road, which made it more likely it was going to get shut down.
I agree that the Federal Reserve Note is fiat. But all the infrastructure is built around it and the government backs it with the full faith and credit of the USA government. Whatever that means is debatable. But bitcoin was backed by promises that no more would be created past the capped amount, that it was open source, etc.
Gold, and maybe moreso silver, do have some industrial usage. Silver is supposed to be one of the best conductors of heat and electricity and one of the shiniest metals and has some other great industrial characteristics.
I'm admitting I was wrong about bitcoin. 10 years later it went up a whole bunch and all that time the conspiracy theorist in me said the rug was going to get pulled and instead government, big banks, hedge funds, etfs, etc. are all in and it is $2 trillion market cap. So, yeah, i was wrong. I'm just trying to explain what my hesitation was.
I totally get it and I was very skeptical and expected a rug pull for many years as well. I respect that you can admit you were wrong because all I see here are people doubling down on their L.
So is it too late to get in? LOL the only way bitcoin would completely collapse is if i bought some. I'm terrible at gambling.
Any time i buy a stock, after careful analysis, it goes bankrupt. There's over half a dozen stocks in my portfolio that are delisted and can only be found on pink sheets now. haha
I bought in last year at around 50k thinking it's late but here I am at double. I'm no expert in this but I don't think now is a good time to buy. I've heard people predicting it will go down to around 60-70 and shoot up again and I'm waiting for that dip.
Generally it's not too late and BTC going to the moon in the future makes sense but I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket of course, there's definitely a gambling element to it. I also stack gold as a hedge against inflation and I've made quite a profit there too.
That's kind of silly because end users can approve loans. There is literally a subreddit for that and my friend used to use it back in the day when he was a serial brokey.
There use to be peer to peer loan sites back in 2005-2010 but most of them got heavily sued into oblivion. Basically the bookies were making money and advertising investment returns that were quantifiably misleading and false.
I've heard that financial times is the paper that bankers and stock brokers worldwide read. it's a far reaching, widely distributed, centralized, translated financial focused paper. If they are giving bitcoin its own section and diverting so many resources to digital coin then they certainly must be planning on moving forward with it. How quickly will they attempt to centralize all of it? Remember, they did not take the dollar off the gold standard all at once.
I've also always wondered how easy it would be for bitcoin holders to cash out millions of dollars worth. I looked online and there seems to be brokers and lawyers who focus their work in this specific area. Apparently there are strategies to relocate to the lowest tax regions or territories and cash out there, or spread it to multiple bank accounts, or other angles to avoid high tax assessments.
Related:
"No one wants CBDC" and "They will block CBDC" people say --> mean while the banks like BoE (which is one of the notable jewish banks) are more inclined to keep testing CBDC. Surely the banks will not betray us, they don't have that much power over us, right?https://communities.win/c/Conspiracies/p/19A1QDsclO/no-one-wants-cbdc-and-they-will-/c
People are just random cold calling desperately trying to make cash offers on people's houses. Jews have so much of this fake monopoly money they've printed at the federal reserve, they're trying to lure gentiles into selling real estate assets. Like you said, they are just LOOKING for things to invest in. The jew knows the fiat money is shit and is trying to buy up anything they can get their greasy rubbing goblin hands on.
I've spent a lot of time looking into bullion but even that seems a bit gamed. For example, you always have to pay spot price plus a premium to buy gold or silver coins, but then when you take those coins back to the same gold coin exchange place you bought them before, suddenly they want to offer you 10% below spot. So they collect huge premiums on both sides of the transaction. Gold has to go up over 20% for me to break even. Fucking scams.
And what's the good money it's driving out? Fiat?
Let me summarize the schizophrenia of this forum when it comes to money:
Exactly. The shit BTC is getting is irrational given the alternative which we know for a fact is fake slave debt money. Even the hardest skeptics have to admit there is a possibility that BTC is truly decentralized and is less manipulated than fiat money and gold (yes, the gold market has always been in the central banker's hands).
I'll pretend you don't already know this, but it's the fact that it's digital-only that makes it worse than the current fiat. It is designed to replace the current fiat currencies with all of that same enslavement features as the current system, plus full control on how and when you can use it (not to mention the impossibility of anonymity).
That is objectively worse.
I know, I know, but muh BTC isn't like that. Just wait. It will be.
BTC is not CBDC, otherwise I'd agree. BTC will always be an alternative option to the fiat and CBDC beast system which is de facto mandatory. I'd take decentralized digital over centralized physical anytime.
It's only a fork away though. That's the thing. And between BlackRock, Coinbase and the US Government it's pretty easy to force that fork to be the accepted one.
They aren't going to just let people freely use a non-sanctioned currency instead of theirs. And they need a digital-only currency to enforce the control grid.
That's why people talk bad about BTC. It is a backdoor way of tricking people into a CBDC-equivalent.
Seems like a stretch. Normies will adopt CBDC without such elaborate deception just like they always do. BTC nerds will reject forking into CBDC because that would defeat the initial purpose of BTC which is to have decentralized, anonymous and limited money on a public ledger. I know I will. If BTC is ran to the ground so be it, there was always risk involved. But I'm not switching to CBDC if the choice is given.
It shouldn't seem like a stretch. Maybe you misunderstood what I meant by "one fork away". Bitcoin and all cryptos are constantly being updated. Big new forks are released regularly. As they are released, once a majority of nodes adopt the fork it becomes the new mainline.
I wasn't saying it will forked such that ownership goes to a central bank or something like that, I'm saying there will be forks that introduce all of the same track and control functionality that CBDCs are built for, and that BTC will be used in place of a CBDC for the purpose of the control grid.
It's already happened several times where governments have forced extremely popular cryptos to add in functionality to be able to blacklist specific wallets of those they determine to be "terrorists".
That will absolutely come to BTC. There is zero chance it won't. Slippery slope from there to social credit scores.
There won't be an option to "reject" these forks. Businesses will be required to only perform transactions on the approved network. Any fork network will be considered supporting terrorism and you will be fined, shut down or imprisoned.
This isn't far fetched. This is how government control has worked for many, many decades, and it will be extended to digital currencies in the next few years.
Also, BTC is not anonymous. I hope you don't think it is. Be careful how you are using it. The only way to be anonymous is to only use BTC ATMs or purchase directly from other people, and even then there are cameras or deliveries of online orders, etc. Any use of banks or exchanges and you are now linked to every transaction you make.
And the "limited money", the same fork probability exists there. There has already been a ton of talk, in the mainstream, of how BlackRock and Coinbase and others could easily remove the 19 million restriction in the future.
One last point, I think you underestimate the number of people that don't want to give up cash and the anonymity it offers. Sure, 70% will give in to fully digital currency, just like the vaccines, but they need the deception to get to a critical mass of 95% or so.
I don't think the basic infrastructure of BTC can be changed to accommodate the needs of a CBDC. First, once all BTC is mined no new money will be introduced in the system and second it will remain a decentralized, public and open source network, unless One world technocratic entities (governments and corporations) manage to amass most of the BTC.
That's why I don't argue in favor of cryptos in general but for BTC specifically.
They said that about torrents 20 years ago and here I am still pirating most of the stuff I use. Seems like the government doesn't fare well cracking down P2P networks.
Sure. At least you acknowledge it can be anonymous because I've debated people here on this.
This sounds like fud talk. It's probably a campaign shills run to scare people off BTC and into "safer crypto" which is CBDC of course. Similar to the IMF worrying about El Salvador adopting BTC because it would lead to financial instability. They will cancel their loan too because of it. There's definitely a smear campaign against BTC ran by the central banks.
There are two many ifs and so far nothing has been done in that direction. Once things start happening I may take the "BTC is a stepping stone to CBDC" more seriously. I am well against digitalization and I don't even use a smartphone so I'm very skeptical to begin with but it's all conjecture and fearmongering so far.
Interesting. If or when you have extra time, could you elaborate some on those 4 points or link me to someone who explains it in some detail? Thanks.
Are you suggesting that bitcoin is not actually decentralized? Was it originally? Or was it a government covert operation from the get-go?
This is one conspiracy that I got entirely wrong.
I first heard about bitcoin around 2009 or 2010. Very early stages because i was in a decentralized banking community that tried to cut banks out and let end users approve loans.
I didn't trust some digital coin you can't hold. Also didn't trust that it was out of China by some guy named Satoshi.
What's the end game here? I think that the digital coin market will be riddled with massive scams and crimes and that it will all come crashing down and then people will demand CBDC. but before that happens, lots and lots of people and banks and savings accounts and IRA's and 401ks and ETFs and hedge funds need to be burned.
So my prediction, still, is that the rug gets pulled on the entire fake digital currency market with enough of a huge outcry that people DEMAND central bank digital coin backed by the federal government or by a union of world governments.
In the meantime I look like a loser. Friends became rich while i dwelled in paranoia and sat out a huge rise in bitcoin when i could have been mining them with graphics cards way back in 2010
Trust your instincts.
I never understood the "can't hold it in your hand" argument. Do you hold your pdf's and mp3's in your hand (yes, physical copies have pros but so do digital, that's why I own both when it comes to important information)? Does that make them less useful and valuable?
You can hold a Fed banknote in your hand and it still is a piece of paper backed by debt and geopolitics. And this is where the problem of money lies - it's a matter of confidence and acceptance, not of it being physical/digital. Lots of people have confidence in BTC and there is a powerful decentralized network behind it. This is what makes it valuable.
People value what BTC represents. Gold's value is determined the same way - it's representative not intrinsic (it still has intrinsic value as a metal but not as money and most of it's money value comes from how rare and limited it is, which applies even more to BTC).
It's easy to claim it was a no-brainer now.
But there was huge risk in exchanging dollars for digital bitcoins. There was the threat of governments shutting it down. There was the threat of other digital coins stealing marketshare away or improving upon bitcoin and innovating something better that negates it. There was the problem that most of the people using it were criminals on the dark web on silk road, which made it more likely it was going to get shut down.
I agree that the Federal Reserve Note is fiat. But all the infrastructure is built around it and the government backs it with the full faith and credit of the USA government. Whatever that means is debatable. But bitcoin was backed by promises that no more would be created past the capped amount, that it was open source, etc.
Gold, and maybe moreso silver, do have some industrial usage. Silver is supposed to be one of the best conductors of heat and electricity and one of the shiniest metals and has some other great industrial characteristics.
I'm admitting I was wrong about bitcoin. 10 years later it went up a whole bunch and all that time the conspiracy theorist in me said the rug was going to get pulled and instead government, big banks, hedge funds, etfs, etc. are all in and it is $2 trillion market cap. So, yeah, i was wrong. I'm just trying to explain what my hesitation was.
I totally get it and I was very skeptical and expected a rug pull for many years as well. I respect that you can admit you were wrong because all I see here are people doubling down on their L.
So is it too late to get in? LOL the only way bitcoin would completely collapse is if i bought some. I'm terrible at gambling.
Any time i buy a stock, after careful analysis, it goes bankrupt. There's over half a dozen stocks in my portfolio that are delisted and can only be found on pink sheets now. haha
I bought in last year at around 50k thinking it's late but here I am at double. I'm no expert in this but I don't think now is a good time to buy. I've heard people predicting it will go down to around 60-70 and shoot up again and I'm waiting for that dip.
Generally it's not too late and BTC going to the moon in the future makes sense but I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket of course, there's definitely a gambling element to it. I also stack gold as a hedge against inflation and I've made quite a profit there too.
That's kind of silly because end users can approve loans. There is literally a subreddit for that and my friend used to use it back in the day when he was a serial brokey.
There use to be peer to peer loan sites back in 2005-2010 but most of them got heavily sued into oblivion. Basically the bookies were making money and advertising investment returns that were quantifiably misleading and false.
FOMO and inflation is driving people into crypto.
“You will own nothing and be happy.”
the link is to Financial Times Crypto coverage
I've heard that financial times is the paper that bankers and stock brokers worldwide read. it's a far reaching, widely distributed, centralized, translated financial focused paper. If they are giving bitcoin its own section and diverting so many resources to digital coin then they certainly must be planning on moving forward with it. How quickly will they attempt to centralize all of it? Remember, they did not take the dollar off the gold standard all at once.
I've also always wondered how easy it would be for bitcoin holders to cash out millions of dollars worth. I looked online and there seems to be brokers and lawyers who focus their work in this specific area. Apparently there are strategies to relocate to the lowest tax regions or territories and cash out there, or spread it to multiple bank accounts, or other angles to avoid high tax assessments.
Related: "No one wants CBDC" and "They will block CBDC" people say --> mean while the banks like BoE (which is one of the notable jewish banks) are more inclined to keep testing CBDC. Surely the banks will not betray us, they don't have that much power over us, right?https://communities.win/c/Conspiracies/p/19A1QDsclO/no-one-wants-cbdc-and-they-will-/c
People are just random cold calling desperately trying to make cash offers on people's houses. Jews have so much of this fake monopoly money they've printed at the federal reserve, they're trying to lure gentiles into selling real estate assets. Like you said, they are just LOOKING for things to invest in. The jew knows the fiat money is shit and is trying to buy up anything they can get their greasy rubbing goblin hands on.
I've spent a lot of time looking into bullion but even that seems a bit gamed. For example, you always have to pay spot price plus a premium to buy gold or silver coins, but then when you take those coins back to the same gold coin exchange place you bought them before, suddenly they want to offer you 10% below spot. So they collect huge premiums on both sides of the transaction. Gold has to go up over 20% for me to break even. Fucking scams.
Note to self: tulips were once used as currency AND valued highly
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
Real but still queer