I don't care what some blogger explains. I know that I can do it.
Mainstream historians and Egyptologists also claim the pyramids were built by hand, without the use of the wheel, and the Egyptians quarried and carved stone with stone pounders and copper chisels. When they were asked to show how this was done, they pounded on stones for less than a day, and proclaimed victory for their paper thin theory, when they made almost no progress.
I could easily make similar granite vase on my metalworking lathe using dremel equipped with diamond disk instead of regular cutter.
No one ever said ancient peoples couldn't work in granite. The problem is working granite (and other hard stone) to extremely fine detail. How tight are the tolerances of your works? Are they within micron tolerances? Are the lines and curves of your works all related to each other, geometrical ratios?
It is possible to make partial arcs on surface (for handles, f.e.) rotating stock by incomplete turn
LOL. Okay. So you're just eyeballing the material removal between the handles. Like I said, even those surfaces are within micron level tolerances. You can't do that by eyeballing it, even on the most accurate lathe in the universe. Just your heartbeat would incur more error than what is seen in these vases. Do you know what a micron is? 1 micron = .001 mm.
In ancient times such things highly probably was made on hand-driven lathe of basic construction with rotating bronse disk/ball with sand melted in as cutting tool.
Egyptologists have tested sawing to cut rock using copper saws with sand abrasives. Do you know how well it worked? They made almost no progress. Using that technique, it would've taken way, waaay longer to produce what was made, and with less accuracy.
Also, I don't know if you know this, but mainstream historians still claim the ancient Egyptians built everything they did without the use of the wheel, and without the use of the lathe. They claim the Egyptians built everything they did with a few copper tools (not everyone had them), stone tools, and diorite pounding stones (hard rocks shaped in a sphere used to literally pound away at a softer rock to remove material, LOL)...that's it. I've worked in a quarry before. Even using steel tools (which massively increases efficiency over copper and stone tools) incurs repetitive stress injuries, when that's all you do every day all day.
Once upon a time, being child I was very enthusiastic in all that "advaced ancient technology" bullshit too. But with time, I got a knowledge and expirience of how things work and how they made. I learned to work on different machines and use different tools. And now, all that "advanced ancient technologies" are nothing more than simple job done with simple tools.
Weird, as I've come to the exact opposite conclusion. I've worked with my hands most of my life. I know what can be achieved by hand, and what can't. I know when a job requires more advanced technology. I'm not the only one saying this with regard to the ancient Egyptian stonework, either. Numerous people who've worked with rock their entire lives have repeated my sentiments.
Again, you clearly haven't watched the video. This isn't the only consideration, either. Ben with UnchartedX has been detailing the anomalies of ancient cultures for years, and has tons of evidence to back up his claims. He has pictures and videos of saw marks, tube drills (which can drill faster than we can replicate today), scooping machines (see Egyptian quarry work), articulated grinders, and unknown machines that could smooth surfaces of rock en masse, even inside fine corners.
The problem is working granite (and other hard stone) to extremely fine detail. How tight are the tolerances of your works? Are they within micron tolerances?
It depends on what tolerances you mean. For roundness you will get less than micron tolerance on nearly any lathe and even cutting something gripped in hand drill.
I have no tools to measure roundness tolerance for things I made on my lathe, It is much less than micron. Best dial I have with 0.001 precision show nothing if I set it on a just turned part rotating in a chuck. Obviously.
For other axis, I have around 0.01 mm lengthwise from chuck to rear support and same 0.01 perpendiculal for 150mm diameter stock. This tolerances are adjustable so it could be better, but I don't need to.
Are the lines and curves of your works all related to each other, geometrical ratios?
You will not believe me, but suddenly, solids of revolution like vases are made from some 2D curve rotated by 360 degrees.
If you look at Egyptian 2D pictures and ornaments, you will find that they are sometimes very sophisticated. You need not be a genius to take some of those ornaments curve and turn it to get some nice thing.
So you're just eyeballing the material removal between the handles.
You don't need any eyballing if you use stops. Simpliest thing - a stick attached to stock. Every time attached stick stop at some fixture, angle of stock is exactly same with decent precision. Very easy.
Same with vase curve. Especially if you need several identical vases. You make a template plank with one side curved that set vase profile and use it as a stop for cutter. You will not be able to cut more than template allow and all subsequent vases will be identical.
Egyptologists have tested sawing to cut rock using copper saws with sand abrasives. Do you know how well it worked? They made almost no progress.
They are idiots. You need bronze or brass for that. Just go to nearest hardware shop and take a look at all that diamond or corundum cutting disks - the abrasive is melted into brass. Copper is too soft to hold abrasive. In addition, copper is kind of sticky. It is hard to mil, drill and turn copper because it is sticky. Brass and bronse is self-slipping. That is why bushes are made from brass or bronze, and that is why it is used as a carrier for abrasive.
If you have a good hardware shop around, you could buy a rope blade for hack saw. Usially used for cutting ceramic tiles. It is a steel wire covered with brass covered with abrasive. Works pretty well. And cheap as dirt. You don't need any "egyptologists" to find out how things really works.
mainstream historians still claim the ancient Egyptians built everything they did without the use of the wheel, and without the use of the lathe.
Mainstream historians claim a lot of bullshit. That is why they allowed to be mainstream.
Egyptians was well aware about wheel and machinery.
I've worked in a quarry before. Even using steel tools
Steel is not used to cut stones. Steel is used in this tools only to carry cutting edge made from brass/bronze and abrasive. All cutting is done by abrasive. And there was plenty of abrasive in ancient Egypt.
I know when a job requires more advanced technology
Advanced technology makes things easier. It didn't change principle. Like with lathe. Of course modern CNC lathe is very comfortable to cut anything round and even not so round. But in basics it is not different from stock holded between two arrowheads and driven by bowstring with knife or sharp stone as a tool. With such lathe you could do anything you can do on modern lathe, it just will take much more time. With such lathe you could make any round parts from wood, bronze or brass stock. Then use them to upgrade your lathe to do things from stone or whatever material.
F.e. those flat disks with square holes in center that are declared coins by "archeologists". They are not coins. "Archeologists" didn't know about machining and all that stuff. They are cutting disks. Square hole allow easily transfer large torque from wooden stick to cutting edge without slipping. Craft was rated high in ancient times, so this form of disk with square hole eventually could evolve in coins with some art on them, but early ones with flat sides are cutting tools.
As for precision - I had a textbook for machinists where described a lot of methods to make high precision parts using low precision tools. It was old Russian textbook for technical schools. I'm shure western technical schools have to have similar textbooks, because it is the basics of any industry. High precision machinery is not appeared from nowhere. It was made on lower precision machinery. Find this book and read it. I guarantee, you will find much more amasing and mind-blowing stuff in this book than in all that videos about "advanced ancient technologies" together.
Again, you clearly haven't watched the video.
I watched and I'm pity I spend time to watch this. Only thing that saved this video is vases. They are nice. And that's all.
Seriously - buy that cheap stone bowl and measure it by yourself. All that bullshit "it is impossible even with modern tools" will vaporize quickly. Just $10 and highly probably you'll easily find something similar on amazon or ebay. Not a very high price to find the truth.
I understand why videobloggers do that videos. They want their easy money, so they will do anything to make even very boring things look amasing and misterious. But I don't understand why people here decide to help them to earn money?
It depends on what tolerances you mean. For roundness you will get less than micron tolerance on nearly any lathe and even cutting something gripped in hand drill....I have no tools to measure roundness tolerance for things I made on my lathe, It is much less than micron. Best dial I have with 0.001 precision show nothing if I set it on a just turned part rotating in a chuck. Obviously....For other axis, I have around 0.01 mm lengthwise from chuck to rear support and same 0.01 perpendiculal for 150mm diameter stock. This tolerances are adjustable so it could be better, but I don't need to.
You say you don't have tools to measure tolerance, and then say your tolerances are sub micron? Maybe this is a language barrier, thing. In any case...
What stone are you working with?
You can only lathe granite with carbide or diamond impregnated steel. According to the Egyptologists, the ancient Egyptians didn't have that tech, nor did they even have lathes. Even with those tools, granite is really hard to lathe, because it's so fragile and has lots of quartz, and even sedimentary rock, occlusions (the granite is impregnated with other materials). Every occlusion line is a probable failure point where stress fractures can and do occur. A lathe, even with the proper tools, puts lots of pressure on granite, which is highly compressed (due to how it's created in the earth), which can cause it to fracture along those occlusions, creating imperfections/chips/cracks in the surface which would impugn on the accuracy of the work far beyond the tolerances we see in these vases.
You will not believe me, but suddenly, solids of revolution like vases are made from some 2D curve rotated by 360 degrees. If you look at Egyptian 2D pictures and ornaments, you will find that they are sometimes very sophisticated. You need not be a genius to take some of those ornaments curve and turn it to get some nice thing.
More proof you didn't watch the video, even though you claim you did. Ben discusses the insane geometric relations of these vases at 32:20 and 40:00 (for the two specific vases being discussed) in the video. You can't just eyeball that.
You don't need any eyballing if you use stops. Simpliest thing - a stick attached to stock. Every time attached stick stop at some fixture, angle of stock is exactly same with decent precision. Very easy.
Yeah, this is why I don't believe your "sub micron" claims to your precision. A stop would incur error far beyond what we see in these vases. A "stick" would incur error far beyond what we see in these vases.
They are idiots. You need bronze or brass for that. Just go to nearest hardware shop and take a look at all that diamond or corundum cutting disks - the abrasive is melted into brass. Copper is too soft to hold abrasive. In addition, copper is kind of sticky. It is hard to mil, drill and turn copper because it is sticky. Brass and bronse is self-slipping. That is why bushes are made from brass or bronze, and that is why it is used as a carrier for abrasive.
Are you being intentionally ignorant of this material to try to "win" your argument, or just trying to troll me? Egyptologists claim the ancient Egyptians didn't have brass or bronze. They claim they only had copper and stone tools. Furthermore, the Egyptologists that "tested" their copper saw with sand abrasives used a saw with lots of small teeth to trap the sand abrasive between them, using it to grind away at the material. As I said, they made almost no progress. Furthermore, I only brought it up because you're the one that mentioned it. Here's your direct quote:
In ancient times such things highly probably was made on hand-driven lathe of basic construction with rotating bronse disk/ball with sand melted in as cutting tool.
Steel is not used to cut stones. Steel is used in this tools only to carry cutting edge made from brass/bronze and abrasive. All cutting is done by abrasive. And there was plenty of abrasive in ancient Egypt.
I never claimed steel was used to "cut" stone. I said steel tools were/are used to work stone, meaning: steel hammers and chisels. You do know that it's the Egyptologists themselves that say the ancient Egyptians created these vases with only copper chisels, and without lathes?
But in basics it is not different from stock holded between two arrowheads and driven by bowstring with knife or sharp stone as a tool. With such lathe you could do anything you can do on modern lathe, it just will take much more time. With such lathe you could make any round parts from wood, bronze or brass stock. Then use them to upgrade your lathe to do things from stone or whatever material.
LOL. You seriously think the ancient Egyptians created micron tolerances in granite with lathes made out of "arrowheads" and "bowstring", or used those tools to create copper tools which could create those tolerances. Okay. Yeah. Sure. This has to be a troll.
You do know that each order of magnitude in accuracy/precision advancement isn't easy to achieve, and it's not achieved in a vacuum. The entire society/civilization would have to shift/advance to achieve those increases in precision. All of technology follows this pattern. You don't just jump from copper chisels to advanced rocketry and space flight. There are numerous, complicated, lengthy intermediate steps. It takes iteration upon iteration, improvement upon improvement, of the entire society to build upon itself to achieve the advances required to even produce the tools necessary to build these things. We've only been able to achieve equitable precision to these vases through the use of computers and modern machinery.
You're making arguments that showcase you have no knowledge of the purported history, claiming the results can be replicated with modern equipment (which was mine and Ben's entire point), and then claiming the ancient Egyptians could easily do it because you can do it (which is questionable with how you've thus far worded it) with modern equipment.
F.e. those flat disks with square holes in center that are declared coins by "archeologists". They are not coins. "Archeologists" didn't know about machining and all that stuff. They are cutting disks. Square hole allow easily transfer large torque from wooden stick to cutting edge without slipping. Craft was rated high in ancient times, so this form of disk with square hole eventually could evolve in coins with some art on them, but early ones with flat sides are cutting tools.
Again, granite and harder stone can't be lathed or cut with copper, brass, or bronze. It requires carbide or diamond impregnated steel. Those "coins" couldn't do jack shit to granite.
I watched and I'm pity I spend time to watch this. Only thing that saved this video is vases. They are nice. And that's all.
"Watched", and yet you prove that you didn't by what you've written and argued thus far.
Mainstream historians claim a lot of bullshit. That is why they allowed to be mainstream...Egyptians was well aware about wheel and machinery.
Hey, at least we agree on this. Congratulations, you've now waded into conspiracy theory territory.
You say you don't have tools to measure tolerance, and then say your tolerances are sub micron?
I said I have no tool to measure tolerance of roundness I get on the lathe. Dial wiith 0.001 mm precision shows nothing on just turned part. So you need more precise measurement device to measure roundness tolerance less than 0.001 mm. I don't have such, so can't tell what exact value I have, only that it is less than 0.001 mm.
What stone are you working with?
Roundness tolerance does not depend on material. It's a property of lathe, not stock.
You can only lathe granite with carbide or diamond impregnated steel.
Nor diamond, nor carbide never impregnated into steel. That's not how abrasive cutting tools made. Just visit hardware shop and look at cutting disks for ceramic, concrete and stone. Abrasive impregnated into brass or bronze layer.
To cut some stone you need abrasive with equal or larger hardness. So you could just use granite itself to cut granite. Just have to change tool more often. Also, granite hardness is less than SiO2 hardness. So you could use sand as abrasive too. Guess what is used to cut diamonds? Siddenly, diamonds.
A lathe, even with the proper tools, puts lots of pressure on granite
You don't need to put pressure on granite. You need to have a fast rotating disc with abrasive as a tool, not a cutter.
Lathe is not a mechanism to put pressure. Lathe is a mechanism that allow turning round things with some tool. Potter's wheel is kind of lathe too. Tool is your hand in that case.
You can't just eyeball that.
You don't need to. Take something round as a template and you will be able to create enormous amounts of interesting curves, just combining circles. Different round templates will make things more interesting.
You seriously think the ancient Egyptians created micron tolerances in granite with lathes made out of "arrowheads" and "bowstring"
You get micron tolerances because of rotation between two supports. Not because of what that supports are.
Egyptologists claim the ancient Egyptians didn't have brass or bronze. They claim they only had copper and stone tools.
If you are not aware, it is much harder to make copper, than to make bronze. Bronze is just impure copper, with tin, silicon, lead and so on as impurities. To make copper you need more advanced technology than to make bronze.
You do know that it's the Egyptologists themselves that say the ancient Egyptians created these vases with only copper chisels, and without lathes?
I don't care what Egyptologists say. Imagine that. I don't need any Egyptologists to find out how things could be done by ancient people.
You seriously think the ancient Egyptians created micron tolerances in granite
There is nothing exceptional in "micron tolerances" at all. A surface, glossy enough to be a mirror have less then 0.1 μm roughness. Yes, 100 nm tolerance. Ancient Egyptians had nanotechnologies!!!111
It requires carbide or diamond impregnated steel
Why do you continue to repeat that bullshit about "abrasive impregnated steel" ? It is very easy to check that abrasive is always impregnated in bronze or brass even in modern instruments. Steel is used only as a cheap base for abrasive impregnated bronze. Steel is significantly cheaper than bronze today, so no need to make whole tool from bronze, and only cutting edge made from bronze now.
Those "coins" couldn't do jack shit to granite.
Those "coins" are as good, as modern diamond disks for Dremel. They just lost all abrasive on the edge, so was thrown out as we found them or was used as they are with abrasive suspension pouring on the rotating disk.
The entire society/civilization would have to shift/advance to achieve those increases in precision.
Strange that you do not apply same logic to your "unknown advanced ancient technology" belief. If ancient Egyptians had some advanced tech, then they had to have industry to make that tech, to make parts of that tech and so on, including precursor tech, parts, etc. And it had to be massive, so we had to find weared and spare parts of that advanced tech and tools to make that advanced tech everywhere in ancient Egypt.
You can't have tech, even magic or alien one without any traces. If it is magic, then there should be tons of blank magic wands, tools to make magic wands and so on. If it is alien, there should be tons of weared alien tool parts, depleted or broken energy sources, broken tools and so on.
When you have only a vase made with "advanced ancient tech", but no any traces of that tech at all, then it is bullshit. So, to be honest you have to look around and see if that vase could be done with things ancient Egyptians already had.
If you think that I'm kind of hardcore sceptic, you can't be wrong more. On the opposite, for a lond I'm trying to find any evidence of any "out of nowhere" technology, because it would be a solid proof of some external, alien influence on development of humanity. But none of that "advanced ancient technology" claims I know about, ever demonstrated technology itself or its parts, only some artifacts claimed to be done with "advanced ancient technology". And all those artifacts perfectly possible for the time they attributed to.
There is a group of "out-of-time" or "out-of-place" artifacts, like that spark plug ingrown into stone, but they are too questionable and too obvious. Antykitera mechanism was kind of promising, but it appeared to be just a sophisticated mechanical calendar to show events and holidays of ancient Greece. Interesting, but not what I looking for.
Listen, If there would have been found something like Antykithera mechanism, but designed to show phases of three moons and dates for completely another planet - THAT would be something I looking for.
Or if there would have been discovered multiple complex but definitely compatible parts of some tech with unknown purpose and with nothing even close to anything in our technologies, then it will be also very interesting.
If you know something like that - you are welcome.
So, if you satisfied with consuming what some videobloggers or "Egyptologists" tell you for your amusement, then fine. Many do that. But I'm not from their target audience. I want real proof.
Mainstream historians and Egyptologists also claim the pyramids were built by hand, without the use of the wheel, and the Egyptians quarried and carved stone with stone pounders and copper chisels. When they were asked to show how this was done, they pounded on stones for less than a day, and proclaimed victory for their paper thin theory, when they made almost no progress.
No one ever said ancient peoples couldn't work in granite. The problem is working granite (and other hard stone) to extremely fine detail. How tight are the tolerances of your works? Are they within micron tolerances? Are the lines and curves of your works all related to each other, geometrical ratios?
LOL. Okay. So you're just eyeballing the material removal between the handles. Like I said, even those surfaces are within micron level tolerances. You can't do that by eyeballing it, even on the most accurate lathe in the universe. Just your heartbeat would incur more error than what is seen in these vases. Do you know what a micron is? 1 micron = .001 mm.
Egyptologists have tested sawing to cut rock using copper saws with sand abrasives. Do you know how well it worked? They made almost no progress. Using that technique, it would've taken way, waaay longer to produce what was made, and with less accuracy.
Also, I don't know if you know this, but mainstream historians still claim the ancient Egyptians built everything they did without the use of the wheel, and without the use of the lathe. They claim the Egyptians built everything they did with a few copper tools (not everyone had them), stone tools, and diorite pounding stones (hard rocks shaped in a sphere used to literally pound away at a softer rock to remove material, LOL)...that's it. I've worked in a quarry before. Even using steel tools (which massively increases efficiency over copper and stone tools) incurs repetitive stress injuries, when that's all you do every day all day.
Weird, as I've come to the exact opposite conclusion. I've worked with my hands most of my life. I know what can be achieved by hand, and what can't. I know when a job requires more advanced technology. I'm not the only one saying this with regard to the ancient Egyptian stonework, either. Numerous people who've worked with rock their entire lives have repeated my sentiments.
Again, you clearly haven't watched the video. This isn't the only consideration, either. Ben with UnchartedX has been detailing the anomalies of ancient cultures for years, and has tons of evidence to back up his claims. He has pictures and videos of saw marks, tube drills (which can drill faster than we can replicate today), scooping machines (see Egyptian quarry work), articulated grinders, and unknown machines that could smooth surfaces of rock en masse, even inside fine corners.
It depends on what tolerances you mean. For roundness you will get less than micron tolerance on nearly any lathe and even cutting something gripped in hand drill.
I have no tools to measure roundness tolerance for things I made on my lathe, It is much less than micron. Best dial I have with 0.001 precision show nothing if I set it on a just turned part rotating in a chuck. Obviously.
For other axis, I have around 0.01 mm lengthwise from chuck to rear support and same 0.01 perpendiculal for 150mm diameter stock. This tolerances are adjustable so it could be better, but I don't need to.
You will not believe me, but suddenly, solids of revolution like vases are made from some 2D curve rotated by 360 degrees. If you look at Egyptian 2D pictures and ornaments, you will find that they are sometimes very sophisticated. You need not be a genius to take some of those ornaments curve and turn it to get some nice thing.
You don't need any eyballing if you use stops. Simpliest thing - a stick attached to stock. Every time attached stick stop at some fixture, angle of stock is exactly same with decent precision. Very easy.
Same with vase curve. Especially if you need several identical vases. You make a template plank with one side curved that set vase profile and use it as a stop for cutter. You will not be able to cut more than template allow and all subsequent vases will be identical.
They are idiots. You need bronze or brass for that. Just go to nearest hardware shop and take a look at all that diamond or corundum cutting disks - the abrasive is melted into brass. Copper is too soft to hold abrasive. In addition, copper is kind of sticky. It is hard to mil, drill and turn copper because it is sticky. Brass and bronse is self-slipping. That is why bushes are made from brass or bronze, and that is why it is used as a carrier for abrasive.
If you have a good hardware shop around, you could buy a rope blade for hack saw. Usially used for cutting ceramic tiles. It is a steel wire covered with brass covered with abrasive. Works pretty well. And cheap as dirt. You don't need any "egyptologists" to find out how things really works.
Mainstream historians claim a lot of bullshit. That is why they allowed to be mainstream.
Egyptians was well aware about wheel and machinery.
Steel is not used to cut stones. Steel is used in this tools only to carry cutting edge made from brass/bronze and abrasive. All cutting is done by abrasive. And there was plenty of abrasive in ancient Egypt.
Advanced technology makes things easier. It didn't change principle. Like with lathe. Of course modern CNC lathe is very comfortable to cut anything round and even not so round. But in basics it is not different from stock holded between two arrowheads and driven by bowstring with knife or sharp stone as a tool. With such lathe you could do anything you can do on modern lathe, it just will take much more time. With such lathe you could make any round parts from wood, bronze or brass stock. Then use them to upgrade your lathe to do things from stone or whatever material.
F.e. those flat disks with square holes in center that are declared coins by "archeologists". They are not coins. "Archeologists" didn't know about machining and all that stuff. They are cutting disks. Square hole allow easily transfer large torque from wooden stick to cutting edge without slipping. Craft was rated high in ancient times, so this form of disk with square hole eventually could evolve in coins with some art on them, but early ones with flat sides are cutting tools.
As for precision - I had a textbook for machinists where described a lot of methods to make high precision parts using low precision tools. It was old Russian textbook for technical schools. I'm shure western technical schools have to have similar textbooks, because it is the basics of any industry. High precision machinery is not appeared from nowhere. It was made on lower precision machinery. Find this book and read it. I guarantee, you will find much more amasing and mind-blowing stuff in this book than in all that videos about "advanced ancient technologies" together.
I watched and I'm pity I spend time to watch this. Only thing that saved this video is vases. They are nice. And that's all.
Seriously - buy that cheap stone bowl and measure it by yourself. All that bullshit "it is impossible even with modern tools" will vaporize quickly. Just $10 and highly probably you'll easily find something similar on amazon or ebay. Not a very high price to find the truth.
I understand why videobloggers do that videos. They want their easy money, so they will do anything to make even very boring things look amasing and misterious. But I don't understand why people here decide to help them to earn money?
You say you don't have tools to measure tolerance, and then say your tolerances are sub micron? Maybe this is a language barrier, thing. In any case...
What stone are you working with?
You can only lathe granite with carbide or diamond impregnated steel. According to the Egyptologists, the ancient Egyptians didn't have that tech, nor did they even have lathes. Even with those tools, granite is really hard to lathe, because it's so fragile and has lots of quartz, and even sedimentary rock, occlusions (the granite is impregnated with other materials). Every occlusion line is a probable failure point where stress fractures can and do occur. A lathe, even with the proper tools, puts lots of pressure on granite, which is highly compressed (due to how it's created in the earth), which can cause it to fracture along those occlusions, creating imperfections/chips/cracks in the surface which would impugn on the accuracy of the work far beyond the tolerances we see in these vases.
More proof you didn't watch the video, even though you claim you did. Ben discusses the insane geometric relations of these vases at 32:20 and 40:00 (for the two specific vases being discussed) in the video. You can't just eyeball that.
Yeah, this is why I don't believe your "sub micron" claims to your precision. A stop would incur error far beyond what we see in these vases. A "stick" would incur error far beyond what we see in these vases.
Are you being intentionally ignorant of this material to try to "win" your argument, or just trying to troll me? Egyptologists claim the ancient Egyptians didn't have brass or bronze. They claim they only had copper and stone tools. Furthermore, the Egyptologists that "tested" their copper saw with sand abrasives used a saw with lots of small teeth to trap the sand abrasive between them, using it to grind away at the material. As I said, they made almost no progress. Furthermore, I only brought it up because you're the one that mentioned it. Here's your direct quote:
I never claimed steel was used to "cut" stone. I said steel tools were/are used to work stone, meaning: steel hammers and chisels. You do know that it's the Egyptologists themselves that say the ancient Egyptians created these vases with only copper chisels, and without lathes?
LOL. You seriously think the ancient Egyptians created micron tolerances in granite with lathes made out of "arrowheads" and "bowstring", or used those tools to create copper tools which could create those tolerances. Okay. Yeah. Sure. This has to be a troll.
You do know that each order of magnitude in accuracy/precision advancement isn't easy to achieve, and it's not achieved in a vacuum. The entire society/civilization would have to shift/advance to achieve those increases in precision. All of technology follows this pattern. You don't just jump from copper chisels to advanced rocketry and space flight. There are numerous, complicated, lengthy intermediate steps. It takes iteration upon iteration, improvement upon improvement, of the entire society to build upon itself to achieve the advances required to even produce the tools necessary to build these things. We've only been able to achieve equitable precision to these vases through the use of computers and modern machinery.
You're making arguments that showcase you have no knowledge of the purported history, claiming the results can be replicated with modern equipment (which was mine and Ben's entire point), and then claiming the ancient Egyptians could easily do it because you can do it (which is questionable with how you've thus far worded it) with modern equipment.
Again, granite and harder stone can't be lathed or cut with copper, brass, or bronze. It requires carbide or diamond impregnated steel. Those "coins" couldn't do jack shit to granite.
"Watched", and yet you prove that you didn't by what you've written and argued thus far.
Hey, at least we agree on this. Congratulations, you've now waded into conspiracy theory territory.
I said I have no tool to measure tolerance of roundness I get on the lathe. Dial wiith 0.001 mm precision shows nothing on just turned part. So you need more precise measurement device to measure roundness tolerance less than 0.001 mm. I don't have such, so can't tell what exact value I have, only that it is less than 0.001 mm.
Roundness tolerance does not depend on material. It's a property of lathe, not stock.
Nor diamond, nor carbide never impregnated into steel. That's not how abrasive cutting tools made. Just visit hardware shop and look at cutting disks for ceramic, concrete and stone. Abrasive impregnated into brass or bronze layer.
To cut some stone you need abrasive with equal or larger hardness. So you could just use granite itself to cut granite. Just have to change tool more often. Also, granite hardness is less than SiO2 hardness. So you could use sand as abrasive too. Guess what is used to cut diamonds? Siddenly, diamonds.
You don't need to put pressure on granite. You need to have a fast rotating disc with abrasive as a tool, not a cutter.
Lathe is not a mechanism to put pressure. Lathe is a mechanism that allow turning round things with some tool. Potter's wheel is kind of lathe too. Tool is your hand in that case.
You don't need to. Take something round as a template and you will be able to create enormous amounts of interesting curves, just combining circles. Different round templates will make things more interesting.
You get micron tolerances because of rotation between two supports. Not because of what that supports are.
If you are not aware, it is much harder to make copper, than to make bronze. Bronze is just impure copper, with tin, silicon, lead and so on as impurities. To make copper you need more advanced technology than to make bronze.
I don't care what Egyptologists say. Imagine that. I don't need any Egyptologists to find out how things could be done by ancient people.
There is nothing exceptional in "micron tolerances" at all. A surface, glossy enough to be a mirror have less then 0.1 μm roughness. Yes, 100 nm tolerance. Ancient Egyptians had nanotechnologies!!!111
Why do you continue to repeat that bullshit about "abrasive impregnated steel" ? It is very easy to check that abrasive is always impregnated in bronze or brass even in modern instruments. Steel is used only as a cheap base for abrasive impregnated bronze. Steel is significantly cheaper than bronze today, so no need to make whole tool from bronze, and only cutting edge made from bronze now.
Those "coins" are as good, as modern diamond disks for Dremel. They just lost all abrasive on the edge, so was thrown out as we found them or was used as they are with abrasive suspension pouring on the rotating disk.
Strange that you do not apply same logic to your "unknown advanced ancient technology" belief. If ancient Egyptians had some advanced tech, then they had to have industry to make that tech, to make parts of that tech and so on, including precursor tech, parts, etc. And it had to be massive, so we had to find weared and spare parts of that advanced tech and tools to make that advanced tech everywhere in ancient Egypt.
You can't have tech, even magic or alien one without any traces. If it is magic, then there should be tons of blank magic wands, tools to make magic wands and so on. If it is alien, there should be tons of weared alien tool parts, depleted or broken energy sources, broken tools and so on.
When you have only a vase made with "advanced ancient tech", but no any traces of that tech at all, then it is bullshit. So, to be honest you have to look around and see if that vase could be done with things ancient Egyptians already had.
If you think that I'm kind of hardcore sceptic, you can't be wrong more. On the opposite, for a lond I'm trying to find any evidence of any "out of nowhere" technology, because it would be a solid proof of some external, alien influence on development of humanity. But none of that "advanced ancient technology" claims I know about, ever demonstrated technology itself or its parts, only some artifacts claimed to be done with "advanced ancient technology". And all those artifacts perfectly possible for the time they attributed to.
There is a group of "out-of-time" or "out-of-place" artifacts, like that spark plug ingrown into stone, but they are too questionable and too obvious. Antykitera mechanism was kind of promising, but it appeared to be just a sophisticated mechanical calendar to show events and holidays of ancient Greece. Interesting, but not what I looking for.
Listen, If there would have been found something like Antykithera mechanism, but designed to show phases of three moons and dates for completely another planet - THAT would be something I looking for.
Or if there would have been discovered multiple complex but definitely compatible parts of some tech with unknown purpose and with nothing even close to anything in our technologies, then it will be also very interesting.
If you know something like that - you are welcome.
So, if you satisfied with consuming what some videobloggers or "Egyptologists" tell you for your amusement, then fine. Many do that. But I'm not from their target audience. I want real proof.