Sun dials need to be adjusted throughout the year to account for axial tilt. If you do not, you will get inaccurate times (as seen in your meme). Get you own sun dial and you will see for yourself.
“Solar time and clock time line up at noon on April 15, June 15, September 1 and December 24, which is why those days are recommended for setting a sundial. If you want your sundial to be as accurate as possible, reset your dial on each of those dates.”
This is something you can test yourself with a post. Mark the shadow of the post at noon once a week for a year. You WILL see the same shadow patterns that your meme is showing, 100%.
Sun dials DO in fact “point In drastically different directions through the 4 seasons.”
Congratulations, this is probably the best argument AGAINST the flat earth model I ever saw. Why would sun dials “point In drastically different directions through the 4 seasons” on a flat earth?
My claim was the globe model would cast shadows in radically different directions between spring and fall (resulting in many hours of error). The local sundial I use is never more than 15 minutes off, which can be explained by the an analemma.
None of the permanent sun dial fixtures in my city are adjustable.
But, this is a controlled opposition talking point. As Noon is not determined by angle but by daylight, as the length of the day accounts for positional changes over the time of the year. Therefore, the sunlight doesn't come from four distinct directions, but will always be facing the same direction, regardless of position on horizon. It's not noon at midnight during the winter as apposed to summer is it? No, of course not. That would be silly. The tilt is the misdirection in this ploy. As it always has been.
Now the starscape. That will face 4 distinct directions, and should be a panorama of new stars arriving on the nightly.
In short. Learn to recognize controlled opposition. A visualization of third dimensional space, and movements through time will aid you in doing so.
In addition. The light is above the equator on this model. Positioned in line with the sun dial, where as the tilt will NOT cause the shadow to change directions, as it will always be below the sun dial located in the State of Georgia.
Analemma's disprove your claim. You can capture an annalema by taking a picture of the sun at one location, every 24 hours, for a whole year. The sun will produce a figure 8 pattern. This will cause the shadow on a sun dial to vary a miniscule amount through the seasons. This is not enough to throw off a sun dial for practical purposes. Ideally you would align the dial to somewhere in the middle of the annalemma.
In the globe demonstration above it looks like spring and fall would have the shadow cast at about a 45+ degree angle difference. Sun dials don't have to be adjusted once you set them up. Some ancient sundials haven't moved in thousands of years.
Do you understant that this 8 is not vertical, but tilted in the sky when you are not on equator? Timelapse pictures in your pedowikia article show that clearly. At point where stick is glued on your meme picture it will be tilted at approx 45°. So with ~23° of Earth rotational axis inclination you will get 8 with the height of ~46° tilted by 45°. So maximum sweep angle for solar noon to clock noon will be 46° / sqrt(2) = ~33°.
If you take parallel light source instead of lamp, and set globe axis tilt to correct 23° (instead of 30° you have on picture) you will get exactly this 33° instead of your "about a 45°" (really ~43° on your picture, which is close to what you will really have on some planet with 30° axis inclination).
I have a public sundial that I look at down the street. All year long the thing is accurate to within 15 minutes or less. No one ever adjusts it because it's set in concrete. I would have to measure how many degrees off it is at maximum, but I would guess 1 or 2 degrees (angle of the shadow). I want to test out that globe simulation so I could get a rough estimate of how far off the shadow is between spring and fall, but if those pics are at all accurate, 45+ degrees off would equate to HOURS of error. It's not even close.
OMG. Did you have geometry classes in your school?
You will have ±15 min precision during a year if you put a stick parallel to Earth axis, and not like on your picture. You could take a globe, glue stick parallel to rotation axis and suddenly find out that now stick shadow do not change its angle when you simulate orbiting the sun.
If you repeat on the Earth what is shown in your meme, you will get ±1 hour precision from vertical stick at same latitude. On the planet with 30° inclination as in the meme, instead of Earth's 23°, you will get ±1.5 hour precision, if that planet will have same rotation speed as Earth.
Well, this is yet another funny example when FE apologist did not even bother to find out how things works before making some statements about that thing. This is even more hillarious than that thread when they thought that gyroscope in mechanical aviahorizons is a source of plane orientation data, when in reality gyroscope in aviahorizons is used as a ~10 minute dumper for a plummet. :)
Is it a kind of infectious disease among your kind? Why you don't want to learn how things work? Or your goal is just shit on every forum where something out-of-narrative discussed? Do you know what people did with well poisoners at the time?
But you are right, sundials do not NEED to be adjusted seasonally… unless you want to accurately tell time with it seasonally. However they will remain accurate on a year to year basis without adjustment (like the ancient sundials you speak of).
“You can capture an annalema by taking a picture of the sun at one location, every 24 hours, for a whole year.”
If you do the same thing with the shadow of a post, or sundial, the same figure 8 shape will appear. The “fat” part of the figure 8 is not “minuscule” when it comes to telling time.
The noon shadow on a sundial varies and has a range of over 30 minutes throughout the year. Sundials are only accurate April 15, June 15, September 1 and December 24 (the exact middle of the analemma, and what most sundials are zeroed to).
You said sundials wont work on a globe because they would point in different directions seasonally. THEY DO, 100% fact.
Your meme also shows an exaggerated difference in “noon” shadows by not having the point centered on the globe. In the left picture, the point is set to the right of center. In the right picture, the point is set to the left of center. This will result in a more drastic angle. It is essentially comparing the 11 am-ish shadow to the 1 pm-ish shadow.
The light does appear to be centered. You can tell because the marker is oriented directly towards the camera on both pics. The reason the highlight is off the line you drew is because the camera (observer) is higher than the light (sun). The highlight would only be spot on if the light and the camera were in the exact same angle. The geometry isn't hard to comprehend. You really think you can correct that big of an angle difference with the shadow?
I told someone this in another post:
I have a public sundial that I look at down the street. All year long the thing is accurate to within 15 minutes or less. No one ever adjusts it because it's set in concrete. I would have to measure how many degrees off it is at maximum, but I would guess 1 or 2 degrees (angle of the shadow). I want to test out that globe simulation so I could get a rough estimate of how far off the shadow is between spring and fall, but if those pics are at all accurate, 45+ degrees off would equate to HOURS of error. It's not even close.
The light is on the OTHER side of the centerline. This will result in even MORE of an angle.
“accurate to within 15 minutes or less.”
15 minutes on either side is a 30 minute range, like I said. You need to “adjust” for that seasonally. The sundial does not have to be physically moved, the time needs adjustment. Can’t believe I need to spell that out.
“guess 1 or 2 degrees”
We do not need to guess, 30 minutes on a sundial is 20 degrees. Get a protractor and sundial and measure yourself. It is very funny you guessed 1-2, way WAY off.
To sum up, your 45 degree estimate is way too big. And your estimate of 1-2 degrees is way too small.
The highlight on the globe is due to the position of the observer. If the observer lowered to the same position as the light, the highlight would be centered. Draw a picture of the camera, globe, and flashlight (with the camera being over the flashlight).
Have you ever used a sundial? The position is not changed once you set it up. If you live in an area with daylight savings time, you have to account for that or else the sundial will appear an hour off. If you live in an area with no time changes through the year, your sundial will be accurate to within 15 minutes all year long.
Let's do some math. There are 360° in a circle or clock face. There are 24 hours per day. This is 15° to represent one hour. If the shadow cast is 15 min early, or 15 min late at max, this would be 3.75° of error. Like I said that is a very small angle. It would not be a 7.5° (30 min) error because you are measuring the angle between true time and the shadow cast, which does not exceed 15 min.
The light source has been placed above Georgia. This is not possible on any Earth Model. Not even flat Earth. Which is how you should know that this is controlled opposition.
Buckle up Buttercup. Because you're about to go on a ride.
Ya that could throw of the y-axis (north/south) of the shadow, but the x-axis (east/west) would be unaffected.
Anyway, forget the sundial thing. Just focus on local aparent noon, that is when the sun is highest in the sky at your given longitude on earth. If the globe earth is on a 23.4° tilt, then the spring and fall equinox would cast shadows at noon in radically different directions. The winter and summer solstice would both cast shadows directly north (or south depending on latitude), though the length of the shadow would be different. Just play around with a globe and a light source and think about that, the geometry seem very clear to me.
I've watched that series, very entertaining heavy stuff!
In addition, we can say that there is natural and artificial lighting. Natural light is the sun, moon, or sunlit clouds covering the sky. Artificial lighting is the light of candles, a torch, light bulbs, car headlights, etc.
Natural light gives straight and direct rays falling on objects. This is because the sun and moon are at a very great distance. Artificial lighting gives rays diverging from a light source in the form of a hand fan. It should be noted that artificial light is always concentrated.
The intensity of lighting depends on the strength of the light source, the distance between the object and the light source and the angle of falling of light rays. In addition, the perception of the illumination of an object depends on the distance between this object and the viewer.
I actually know this from game design because the math behind how a light like the sun works is completely different than a point light. Anyway.
When you see crepuscular rays coming down, as linked below, does the light look parallel to you? Or does it look like we have a small local sun, which you can trace the rays back to their source?
Anyway, forget the sundial thing. Just focus on local aparent noon, that is when the sun is highest in the sky at your given longitude on earth. If the globe earth is on a 23.4° tilt, then the spring and fall equinox would cast shadows at noon in radically different directions. The winter and summer solstice would both cast shadows directly north (or south depending on latitude), though the length of the shadow would be different.
I understand the procession of the equinox, that is not what I was talking about, although both models agree it occures. The analemma explains why an unadjusted sundial will drift between 15 minutes early to 15 minutes late throughout the year. This angle is very small though, about 3.75° of error maximum.
Unless the sun speeds up as it moves to the outer circle, and slows as it moves to the inner circle. But it does not speed and slow perfectly which is why an analemma (figure eight) is formed. On the globe model spring and fall would cast noon shadows in radically different directions. The annalema is insignificant variation which is why sun dials are normally just left in place once they are set up.
Sun dials need to be adjusted throughout the year to account for axial tilt. If you do not, you will get inaccurate times (as seen in your meme). Get you own sun dial and you will see for yourself.
“Solar time and clock time line up at noon on April 15, June 15, September 1 and December 24, which is why those days are recommended for setting a sundial. If you want your sundial to be as accurate as possible, reset your dial on each of those dates.”
This is something you can test yourself with a post. Mark the shadow of the post at noon once a week for a year. You WILL see the same shadow patterns that your meme is showing, 100%.
Sun dials DO in fact “point In drastically different directions through the 4 seasons.”
Congratulations, this is probably the best argument AGAINST the flat earth model I ever saw. Why would sun dials “point In drastically different directions through the 4 seasons” on a flat earth?
Source
https://www.myfrugalhome.com/set-your-sundial/#:~:text=Solar%20time%20and%20clock%20time,on%20each%20of%20those%20dates.
Very nice. If I had the ability to sticky other user comments I would sticky this.
Look at my comment concerning analemmas. If he was correct, you would have to contially adjust your sundials position all year.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analemma
Technically you do but it’s infeasible so a bit of error is acceptable when you’re using an imprecise instrument like a sun dial
My claim was the globe model would cast shadows in radically different directions between spring and fall (resulting in many hours of error). The local sundial I use is never more than 15 minutes off, which can be explained by the an analemma.
You're a fucking retard.
Do you ever step back and ask yourself why you are getting angry at retards? Lmao
Who's angry? Not me. Just letting you know.
None of the permanent sun dial fixtures in my city are adjustable.
But, this is a controlled opposition talking point. As Noon is not determined by angle but by daylight, as the length of the day accounts for positional changes over the time of the year. Therefore, the sunlight doesn't come from four distinct directions, but will always be facing the same direction, regardless of position on horizon. It's not noon at midnight during the winter as apposed to summer is it? No, of course not. That would be silly. The tilt is the misdirection in this ploy. As it always has been.
Now the starscape. That will face 4 distinct directions, and should be a panorama of new stars arriving on the nightly.
In short. Learn to recognize controlled opposition. A visualization of third dimensional space, and movements through time will aid you in doing so.
In addition. The light is above the equator on this model. Positioned in line with the sun dial, where as the tilt will NOT cause the shadow to change directions, as it will always be below the sun dial located in the State of Georgia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropic_of_Cancer
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/earths-axis-has-changed--422845852487350185/
Analemma's disprove your claim. You can capture an annalema by taking a picture of the sun at one location, every 24 hours, for a whole year. The sun will produce a figure 8 pattern. This will cause the shadow on a sun dial to vary a miniscule amount through the seasons. This is not enough to throw off a sun dial for practical purposes. Ideally you would align the dial to somewhere in the middle of the annalemma.
In the globe demonstration above it looks like spring and fall would have the shadow cast at about a 45+ degree angle difference. Sun dials don't have to be adjusted once you set them up. Some ancient sundials haven't moved in thousands of years.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analemma
Do you understant that this 8 is not vertical, but tilted in the sky when you are not on equator? Timelapse pictures in your pedowikia article show that clearly. At point where stick is glued on your meme picture it will be tilted at approx 45°. So with ~23° of Earth rotational axis inclination you will get 8 with the height of ~46° tilted by 45°. So maximum sweep angle for solar noon to clock noon will be 46° / sqrt(2) = ~33°.
If you take parallel light source instead of lamp, and set globe axis tilt to correct 23° (instead of 30° you have on picture) you will get exactly this 33° instead of your "about a 45°" (really ~43° on your picture, which is close to what you will really have on some planet with 30° axis inclination).
I have a public sundial that I look at down the street. All year long the thing is accurate to within 15 minutes or less. No one ever adjusts it because it's set in concrete. I would have to measure how many degrees off it is at maximum, but I would guess 1 or 2 degrees (angle of the shadow). I want to test out that globe simulation so I could get a rough estimate of how far off the shadow is between spring and fall, but if those pics are at all accurate, 45+ degrees off would equate to HOURS of error. It's not even close.
OMG. Did you have geometry classes in your school?
You will have ±15 min precision during a year if you put a stick parallel to Earth axis, and not like on your picture. You could take a globe, glue stick parallel to rotation axis and suddenly find out that now stick shadow do not change its angle when you simulate orbiting the sun.
If you repeat on the Earth what is shown in your meme, you will get ±1 hour precision from vertical stick at same latitude. On the planet with 30° inclination as in the meme, instead of Earth's 23°, you will get ±1.5 hour precision, if that planet will have same rotation speed as Earth.
Well, this is yet another funny example when FE apologist did not even bother to find out how things works before making some statements about that thing. This is even more hillarious than that thread when they thought that gyroscope in mechanical aviahorizons is a source of plane orientation data, when in reality gyroscope in aviahorizons is used as a ~10 minute dumper for a plummet. :)
Is it a kind of infectious disease among your kind? Why you don't want to learn how things work? Or your goal is just shit on every forum where something out-of-narrative discussed? Do you know what people did with well poisoners at the time?
You sound vaccinated.
Flat Earther: Looks at an image, does not understand whats going on, and concludes that it's fake.
Every
Single
Time
In no way does analemma disprove my claim.
But you are right, sundials do not NEED to be adjusted seasonally… unless you want to accurately tell time with it seasonally. However they will remain accurate on a year to year basis without adjustment (like the ancient sundials you speak of).
“You can capture an annalema by taking a picture of the sun at one location, every 24 hours, for a whole year.”
If you do the same thing with the shadow of a post, or sundial, the same figure 8 shape will appear. The “fat” part of the figure 8 is not “minuscule” when it comes to telling time.
The noon shadow on a sundial varies and has a range of over 30 minutes throughout the year. Sundials are only accurate April 15, June 15, September 1 and December 24 (the exact middle of the analemma, and what most sundials are zeroed to).
You said sundials wont work on a globe because they would point in different directions seasonally. THEY DO, 100% fact.
Your meme also shows an exaggerated difference in “noon” shadows by not having the point centered on the globe. In the left picture, the point is set to the right of center. In the right picture, the point is set to the left of center. This will result in a more drastic angle. It is essentially comparing the 11 am-ish shadow to the 1 pm-ish shadow.
Here is a picture showing this:
https://gab.com/TheGreyGuy/posts/110703866648658230
I know how you people continuously move the goal post, so I am done. Have a good life.
The light does appear to be centered. You can tell because the marker is oriented directly towards the camera on both pics. The reason the highlight is off the line you drew is because the camera (observer) is higher than the light (sun). The highlight would only be spot on if the light and the camera were in the exact same angle. The geometry isn't hard to comprehend. You really think you can correct that big of an angle difference with the shadow?
I told someone this in another post: I have a public sundial that I look at down the street. All year long the thing is accurate to within 15 minutes or less. No one ever adjusts it because it's set in concrete. I would have to measure how many degrees off it is at maximum, but I would guess 1 or 2 degrees (angle of the shadow). I want to test out that globe simulation so I could get a rough estimate of how far off the shadow is between spring and fall, but if those pics are at all accurate, 45+ degrees off would equate to HOURS of error. It's not even close.
The light is on the OTHER side of the centerline. This will result in even MORE of an angle.
“accurate to within 15 minutes or less.”
15 minutes on either side is a 30 minute range, like I said. You need to “adjust” for that seasonally. The sundial does not have to be physically moved, the time needs adjustment. Can’t believe I need to spell that out.
“guess 1 or 2 degrees”
We do not need to guess, 30 minutes on a sundial is 20 degrees. Get a protractor and sundial and measure yourself. It is very funny you guessed 1-2, way WAY off.
To sum up, your 45 degree estimate is way too big. And your estimate of 1-2 degrees is way too small.
The highlight on the globe is due to the position of the observer. If the observer lowered to the same position as the light, the highlight would be centered. Draw a picture of the camera, globe, and flashlight (with the camera being over the flashlight).
Have you ever used a sundial? The position is not changed once you set it up. If you live in an area with daylight savings time, you have to account for that or else the sundial will appear an hour off. If you live in an area with no time changes through the year, your sundial will be accurate to within 15 minutes all year long.
Let's do some math. There are 360° in a circle or clock face. There are 24 hours per day. This is 15° to represent one hour. If the shadow cast is 15 min early, or 15 min late at max, this would be 3.75° of error. Like I said that is a very small angle. It would not be a 7.5° (30 min) error because you are measuring the angle between true time and the shadow cast, which does not exceed 15 min.
The light source has been placed above Georgia. This is not possible on any Earth Model. Not even flat Earth. Which is how you should know that this is controlled opposition.
Buckle up Buttercup. Because you're about to go on a ride.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/QetnEQ2pszMr/
Ya that could throw of the y-axis (north/south) of the shadow, but the x-axis (east/west) would be unaffected.
Anyway, forget the sundial thing. Just focus on local aparent noon, that is when the sun is highest in the sky at your given longitude on earth. If the globe earth is on a 23.4° tilt, then the spring and fall equinox would cast shadows at noon in radically different directions. The winter and summer solstice would both cast shadows directly north (or south depending on latitude), though the length of the shadow would be different. Just play around with a globe and a light source and think about that, the geometry seem very clear to me.
I've watched that series, very entertaining heavy stuff!
So how does a sundial work on a flat earth?
You know that a desk lamp is way to small and close to make parallel lines for starters?
https://www.drawingforall.net/light-and-shadow/
I actually know this from game design because the math behind how a light like the sun works is completely different than a point light. Anyway.
https://sundials.org/index.php/teachers-corner/sundial-mathematics
The math isnt that hard. In fact, if anything it makes the case for spherical earth stronger.
https://www.gi.alaska.edu/alaska-science-forum/sundial-fairbanks
What your thinking of likely is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession
Precession of equinox and unless your older than 20,000 years, the marks would stay true.
When you see crepuscular rays coming down, as linked below, does the light look parallel to you? Or does it look like we have a small local sun, which you can trace the rays back to their source?
https://epod.usra.edu/blog/2020/07/crepuscular-rays-off-la-palma-canary-islands.html
Anyway, forget the sundial thing. Just focus on local aparent noon, that is when the sun is highest in the sky at your given longitude on earth. If the globe earth is on a 23.4° tilt, then the spring and fall equinox would cast shadows at noon in radically different directions. The winter and summer solstice would both cast shadows directly north (or south depending on latitude), though the length of the shadow would be different.
I understand the procession of the equinox, that is not what I was talking about, although both models agree it occures. The analemma explains why an unadjusted sundial will drift between 15 minutes early to 15 minutes late throughout the year. This angle is very small though, about 3.75° of error maximum.
I've seen flat earth models that would cause the same effect due to the suns expanding orbit to the outer circle.
Unless the sun speeds up as it moves to the outer circle, and slows as it moves to the inner circle. But it does not speed and slow perfectly which is why an analemma (figure eight) is formed. On the globe model spring and fall would cast noon shadows in radically different directions. The annalema is insignificant variation which is why sun dials are normally just left in place once they are set up.
I just see boobs. What the hell is wrong with me?
I understand completely. I had to start looking at flat earth, so I could stop looking at boobs on the internet.
Explain how a sundial works on a flat earth.