You have many options today already, and the problem is not in hardware at all, the problem is in fucking users who immidiately begin to whine each time they meet something that can't run their fucking Windows, Photoshop, MS Office, games and other crap.
Open hardware exists for a few years already, in form of RISC-V/POWER/MIPS/SPARC CPU's where you still have to trust chip manufacturer, but at least could choose one you are fine with, or in a form of open source IP cores that could be uploaded to any decent FPGA where you are in full control of your CPU.
And no, none of that CPUs will run any iOS/Windows with their crappy software. Only opensource systems and opensource software. So, you pretty free to buy/make computer that you will control already, but looks like very little people really ready to forget about iOS/Windows bloatware.
To get fully open CPU - buy any suitable FPGA board with plenty of RAM and upload RISC-V/MIPS/SPARC CPU core. Then install Linux and you are ready to go on your own CPU. Don't expect high performance, but if you are so concerned about maximum hardware and software security it is the best option you could find.
As for cheap boards with mass-produced RISC-V processors - look for Mango Pi, Lichee Pi 4A, Vision Five 2. They are cheap enough just to play with and find out if they suit your hardware security demands. In the worst possible case it will be Chineese who will be able to potentially spy on you, not CIA/FBI as with Intel/AMD/Apple/Qualcomm/Broadcom processors. If it is fine for you, go ahead.
Is there really no independent options? I'm just picking who gets to spy on me? Second, I've never heard of these brands before. Where do I buy them? I'm curious of the price.
It would be nice to have something at the power level of a netbook that I could just use for personal internet use. Anything that requires more work I could use my current computer for but I don't need to give all of my internet data because I wanna fuck around on unreal engine or play a video game.
What do you mean by "independent"? For me it looks like making silicon from scratch in garage. It is possible, but with enormous efforts in time, money and zeal, but hardly you will be able to make something better than 6502 or Z80.
I'm just picking who gets to spy on me?
With FPGA option you are not. FPGA is just a tons of logical gates on chip that could be connected into some circuit described on the Verilog language. You compile that code and upload it to FPGA. Logical gates in FPGA connects together in a circuit you designed. You could get ready opensource CPU core, network adapter, display engine, memory controller and some other periferals, check the code, modify it if you need and upload into FPGA. That will be your own CPU circuit, under your full control, not some third-party CPU you don't have any clue about.
Drawback is speed. It will work but will be slow, something like 486 or Pentium I in best case. But if you really care about security, that should not stop you.
Same with cheap SoCs. They are cheap because they use minimal CPU, peripherals and so on to reduce chip square. Adding something like Intel ME means you need to add same amount of logic gates and some additional memory on chip, that will make it at least several times larger. So it would not be so cheap.
I think it is perfectly safe to use something made with something like lower Allwinner SoCs like H3, D1 and so on.
Also, if you have a way to find old Power Mac G5, last with PowerPC 970MP processor, you could just add memory up to 16Gb install Debian Jessie (last one with PPC support) or build Gentoo and have relatively powerful computer without any IntelME or something like. Problems will be with finding suitable memory and HDDs.
AFAIK, there was Apple laptops with PowerPC CPU, but I doubt their memory they could be upgraded to levels necessary for acceptable browser usage.
First Intel chipset series with kind of Intel ME ancestor was 900 series IIRC, so to have an Intel CPU without any ME you will have to fall to Pentium 4, which is hardly useable for modern internet due to RAM size limitations.
Also you could try to find something with AMD processor pre 2013, but I'm not shure AMD had no ancestors for AMT in older chipsets.
As you see, there are not much options for something that could be useable for browsing today. Either that cheap single board computers, either last from non-x86 computers with at least 4Gb RAM support.
There is also some projects like Purism, System76 who aim at making laptops free from any ME crap, but they are only partially succeed in removing ME.
PineBook could be interesting from that angle, because despite having Allwinner A64 SoC with ARM Cortex-A53 that have TrustZone, TrustZone is different from Intel ME/AMT because it is CPU mode and not a separate processor in a chipset running some code without usser knowledge or control. You could use TrustZone to make shit like Intel ME as smartphone manufacturers do, but you don't have to. If you run your own system and bootloader just don't use that CPU mode and that's all. U-Boot that is used on ARM processors as bootloader is opensource and don't need TrustZone. You could even use that TrustZone mode for your own purposes if you wish. Just don't run any third-party kernels with blobs or proprietary drivers for the sake of some higher FPS in 3D or video encoding/decoding. Use only mainline kernel and mainline u-boot and you will be fine.
PineBook is cheap, but you will not get perfect system out-of-the box like with Mac f.e. You will have to tune and adjust Linux here an there, may be read some howtos and forums, but I think it is closest to your wishes thing you could get with minimum effort and money.
There is also some new Chineese RISC-V based laptop "Roma" out there, but I didn't check it yet, and it seems to be relatively expensive. However it is much more powerful than PineBook. Don't know about proprietary drivers for it, may be it needs some blobs for 3D engine or video codec f.e., so it would not be so open.
They whine every time they have to spend a week of their life fixing something they aren't equipped to understand. Then after whining they switch to something that works so they can stay productive.
I say this as a Linux user. The burden is on the hardware makers to market their product and make it accessible to the consumer.
When hardware makers take an attempt to make something average customer friendly, they end in something like Android.
Interesting that decade ago Nokia tried to roll out smartphone on real Linux (Debian fork), not that Android mockup over Linux kernel, pretty useable, unlike Linux based Motorolas and it was a huge success, Nokia N9 sells outnumbered all their Windows Phone phones combined despite N9 was not sold in some regions. Guess how that ended. Microsoft bought Nokia and closed its Linux department. Then Nokia disappeared. Interesting that Microsoft totally ignored Android, and never tried to interfere with it. Android phones was perfectly OK for corporations, but not real Linux ones.
So i doubt that any corporation will make something Linux based preserving all openness and user control.
That rich guy will need his own country and a powerful army.
It is kind of closing technology that threatens all world corporations and governments. Imagine - they build that surveillance bloatware money-sucking arena of personal computers for decades, and suddenly somebody roll out a clean computer and OS everybody like and could use for decades. All their enormous surveillance efforts and trillion investments turn to dust. TPTB bombed entire countries for much less.
Not sure how to get the Russian chips here in NA, please advise.
You don't need Russian chips, really. I think you could buy something based on Baikal processors with MIPS architecture, but you had to hunt for them on Ebay or find a way to buy it from Russia which could be problematic today.
You could just buy something like Mango Pi or Leeche Pi from Aliexpress/Banggood. They are RISC-V machines, pretty cheap but they could even browse modern Internet. At least they are definitely enough to use conspiracies.win. :)
Thing with that RISC-V and many ARM processors of same class is that they are too simple and cheap to have some kind of Intel ME/AMD PSP/ARM TrustZone thing.
Don't use Raspberry Pi, they didn't have special processor for ME thing, but use GPU for that stuff. There was attempts to reverse engineer boot process and GPU supervisor, but AFAIK even for old RPis which are obsolete now, it is still work in progress.
F.e. cheap Allwinner ARM or RISC-V SoCs that often used in cheap SBC are well studied and no malicious activity in background was noticed. SoC internal bootloader is a small 32kb piece of code and it is easy to reverse engineer it even by yourself.
Also RockChip SoCs was found pretty straight things.
If you need some power - take a look at VisionFive 2, this $50 RISC-V computer have performance similar to latest RPi4, however, it is relatively new thing and it is not clear yet, if it have some kind of ME things or not.
Or go to FPGA boards, where you could make any processor you want, even with your own architecture. But that would be more expensive, because FPGA boards with DIMM memory interface are not cheap.
In any case - look for cheap, not very powerful ARM/RISC-V/MIPS boards with lot of memory on board, install Linux distribution of your choice, and you will get pretty protected pocket computer for web browsing. RISC-V is preferrable, since it is not a widespread architecture yet, so even targeted hacker will have to work hard to break into unknown architecture. Code injection exploits designed for x86/ARM just will not work on RISC-V.
OP'TION, noun [Latin optio, opto, to wish or desire.] - "the power of choosing"...aka ones free will of choice. Suggested many (plural) tempts perceiving one (singular) to ignore self for others.
You have many options today already, and the problem is not in hardware at all, the problem is in fucking users who immidiately begin to whine each time they meet something that can't run their fucking Windows, Photoshop, MS Office, games and other crap.
Open hardware exists for a few years already, in form of RISC-V/POWER/MIPS/SPARC CPU's where you still have to trust chip manufacturer, but at least could choose one you are fine with, or in a form of open source IP cores that could be uploaded to any decent FPGA where you are in full control of your CPU.
And no, none of that CPUs will run any iOS/Windows with their crappy software. Only opensource systems and opensource software. So, you pretty free to buy/make computer that you will control already, but looks like very little people really ready to forget about iOS/Windows bloatware.
Where can I buy a processor and motherboard that's open? Also does it run linux?
To get fully open CPU - buy any suitable FPGA board with plenty of RAM and upload RISC-V/MIPS/SPARC CPU core. Then install Linux and you are ready to go on your own CPU. Don't expect high performance, but if you are so concerned about maximum hardware and software security it is the best option you could find.
As for cheap boards with mass-produced RISC-V processors - look for Mango Pi, Lichee Pi 4A, Vision Five 2. They are cheap enough just to play with and find out if they suit your hardware security demands. In the worst possible case it will be Chineese who will be able to potentially spy on you, not CIA/FBI as with Intel/AMD/Apple/Qualcomm/Broadcom processors. If it is fine for you, go ahead.
Is there really no independent options? I'm just picking who gets to spy on me? Second, I've never heard of these brands before. Where do I buy them? I'm curious of the price.
It would be nice to have something at the power level of a netbook that I could just use for personal internet use. Anything that requires more work I could use my current computer for but I don't need to give all of my internet data because I wanna fuck around on unreal engine or play a video game.
What do you mean by "independent"? For me it looks like making silicon from scratch in garage. It is possible, but with enormous efforts in time, money and zeal, but hardly you will be able to make something better than 6502 or Z80.
With FPGA option you are not. FPGA is just a tons of logical gates on chip that could be connected into some circuit described on the Verilog language. You compile that code and upload it to FPGA. Logical gates in FPGA connects together in a circuit you designed. You could get ready opensource CPU core, network adapter, display engine, memory controller and some other periferals, check the code, modify it if you need and upload into FPGA. That will be your own CPU circuit, under your full control, not some third-party CPU you don't have any clue about.
Drawback is speed. It will work but will be slow, something like 486 or Pentium I in best case. But if you really care about security, that should not stop you.
Same with cheap SoCs. They are cheap because they use minimal CPU, peripherals and so on to reduce chip square. Adding something like Intel ME means you need to add same amount of logic gates and some additional memory on chip, that will make it at least several times larger. So it would not be so cheap.
I think it is perfectly safe to use something made with something like lower Allwinner SoCs like H3, D1 and so on.
Also, if you have a way to find old Power Mac G5, last with PowerPC 970MP processor, you could just add memory up to 16Gb install Debian Jessie (last one with PPC support) or build Gentoo and have relatively powerful computer without any IntelME or something like. Problems will be with finding suitable memory and HDDs.
AFAIK, there was Apple laptops with PowerPC CPU, but I doubt their memory they could be upgraded to levels necessary for acceptable browser usage.
First Intel chipset series with kind of Intel ME ancestor was 900 series IIRC, so to have an Intel CPU without any ME you will have to fall to Pentium 4, which is hardly useable for modern internet due to RAM size limitations.
Also you could try to find something with AMD processor pre 2013, but I'm not shure AMD had no ancestors for AMT in older chipsets.
As you see, there are not much options for something that could be useable for browsing today. Either that cheap single board computers, either last from non-x86 computers with at least 4Gb RAM support.
There is also some projects like Purism, System76 who aim at making laptops free from any ME crap, but they are only partially succeed in removing ME.
PineBook could be interesting from that angle, because despite having Allwinner A64 SoC with ARM Cortex-A53 that have TrustZone, TrustZone is different from Intel ME/AMT because it is CPU mode and not a separate processor in a chipset running some code without usser knowledge or control. You could use TrustZone to make shit like Intel ME as smartphone manufacturers do, but you don't have to. If you run your own system and bootloader just don't use that CPU mode and that's all. U-Boot that is used on ARM processors as bootloader is opensource and don't need TrustZone. You could even use that TrustZone mode for your own purposes if you wish. Just don't run any third-party kernels with blobs or proprietary drivers for the sake of some higher FPS in 3D or video encoding/decoding. Use only mainline kernel and mainline u-boot and you will be fine.
PineBook is cheap, but you will not get perfect system out-of-the box like with Mac f.e. You will have to tune and adjust Linux here an there, may be read some howtos and forums, but I think it is closest to your wishes thing you could get with minimum effort and money.
There is also some new Chineese RISC-V based laptop "Roma" out there, but I didn't check it yet, and it seems to be relatively expensive. However it is much more powerful than PineBook. Don't know about proprietary drivers for it, may be it needs some blobs for 3D engine or video codec f.e., so it would not be so open.
They whine every time they have to spend a week of their life fixing something they aren't equipped to understand. Then after whining they switch to something that works so they can stay productive.
I say this as a Linux user. The burden is on the hardware makers to market their product and make it accessible to the consumer.
Yes and no.
When hardware makers take an attempt to make something average customer friendly, they end in something like Android.
Interesting that decade ago Nokia tried to roll out smartphone on real Linux (Debian fork), not that Android mockup over Linux kernel, pretty useable, unlike Linux based Motorolas and it was a huge success, Nokia N9 sells outnumbered all their Windows Phone phones combined despite N9 was not sold in some regions. Guess how that ended. Microsoft bought Nokia and closed its Linux department. Then Nokia disappeared. Interesting that Microsoft totally ignored Android, and never tried to interfere with it. Android phones was perfectly OK for corporations, but not real Linux ones.
So i doubt that any corporation will make something Linux based preserving all openness and user control.
It is going to take some eccentric rich guy who hates the system and doesn't want to sell.
That rich guy will need his own country and a powerful army.
It is kind of closing technology that threatens all world corporations and governments. Imagine - they build that surveillance bloatware money-sucking arena of personal computers for decades, and suddenly somebody roll out a clean computer and OS everybody like and could use for decades. All their enormous surveillance efforts and trillion investments turn to dust. TPTB bombed entire countries for much less.
hahaha, Not sure how to get the Russian chips here in NA, please advise.
You don't need Russian chips, really. I think you could buy something based on Baikal processors with MIPS architecture, but you had to hunt for them on Ebay or find a way to buy it from Russia which could be problematic today.
You could just buy something like Mango Pi or Leeche Pi from Aliexpress/Banggood. They are RISC-V machines, pretty cheap but they could even browse modern Internet. At least they are definitely enough to use conspiracies.win. :) Thing with that RISC-V and many ARM processors of same class is that they are too simple and cheap to have some kind of Intel ME/AMD PSP/ARM TrustZone thing.
Don't use Raspberry Pi, they didn't have special processor for ME thing, but use GPU for that stuff. There was attempts to reverse engineer boot process and GPU supervisor, but AFAIK even for old RPis which are obsolete now, it is still work in progress.
F.e. cheap Allwinner ARM or RISC-V SoCs that often used in cheap SBC are well studied and no malicious activity in background was noticed. SoC internal bootloader is a small 32kb piece of code and it is easy to reverse engineer it even by yourself.
Also RockChip SoCs was found pretty straight things.
If you need some power - take a look at VisionFive 2, this $50 RISC-V computer have performance similar to latest RPi4, however, it is relatively new thing and it is not clear yet, if it have some kind of ME things or not.
Or go to FPGA boards, where you could make any processor you want, even with your own architecture. But that would be more expensive, because FPGA boards with DIMM memory interface are not cheap.
In any case - look for cheap, not very powerful ARM/RISC-V/MIPS boards with lot of memory on board, install Linux distribution of your choice, and you will get pretty protected pocket computer for web browsing. RISC-V is preferrable, since it is not a widespread architecture yet, so even targeted hacker will have to work hard to break into unknown architecture. Code injection exploits designed for x86/ARM just will not work on RISC-V.
Amazing work once again, some great inputs here much appreciated.
I should get off my ass and build something.
OP'TION, noun [Latin optio, opto, to wish or desire.] - "the power of choosing"...aka ones free will of choice. Suggested many (plural) tempts perceiving one (singular) to ignore self for others.