I was never taught the horizon is a single location.
Of course you were, and you believe it too. Standing in one place, that we agree exists, is fixed, and can be reached - say the shoreline, you were taught and believe that the horizon is the physical edge of the world and is a fixed distance from the observer (even if, as you admit, the optical perception of that fixed physical horizon varies due to weather factors).
I’m not trying to attribute a view to you that you don’t have, so if you don’t agree with the above (the standard taught view) - please explain why/how your view differs!
Not an illusion
Right, we are taught that but it is incorrect. It is a causal result of the way our eyes work and the intrinsic attenuation of light. The sky doesn’t really collide into the ground/surface into a compressed line at roughly eye level in the far distance, it merely appears that way to us. It is not the “edge of our world” as we are taught, but merely the edge of our vision.
Also the stuff about it being a molecular boundary line in my last comment is perfectly true
We know that the air and the surface of the world touch - it is hardly a profound or relevant insight regardless of nomenclature used. The horizon that we see (an optical illusion) is not the name for the location where that happens, because it happens everywhere there is surface.
I'm not trying to understand your perspective. I don't care about it
In fairness, you were very straightforward about that. You are admittedly close minded and pigheaded on the subject. Your candor and self awareness is appreciated.
As i said before, i answered your question because i found it was earnest and therefore warranted an earnest response even though you had already declared you were going to ignore any such answer.
it's circuitous meaningless waffle.
Your mistaken presumption of my perspective is, no doubt. But in order to know my actual perspective, and be capable of making an informed judgement on it, would require you to learn about it first. You aren’t a psychic, and it is extremely foolish to assume you are! When you don’t know something (or misinterpret/misunderstand something that is said), asking questions is a good first step!
Thanks for admitting ... You have admitted ...
Please learn to read if you are at all capable. If you just want to mutter to yourself, you can do that without posting.
They don’t, though.
Of course they do. They feel the exact same way about your views on the holocaust, and - like you - believe that anyone with differing views deserves punishment/silencing/censorship. You really can’t see how you are acting the exact same way, and with the exact same authoritarian zealotry?
Listed hundreds of times already.
No, you have never once listed the “proof/disproof” that has been repeated for thousands of years as you falsely claim. You don’t know who did it, when they did it, or precisely what procedure they followed. That’s why you can’t name it, now or ever :( Feel free to prove me wrong, but we both know you can’t :(
Hard to forget something you’re not paying any attention to.
Then i suppose you just accept your failure. That’s a good first step. Don’t lie to yourself - it’s bad for you and those around you.
You literally just said it again
Yes, i was quoting you. No one said it except you. It’s a stupid thing that only you would say and you lied when you claimed i said it (and just lied again :() That’s the whole point.
Said the flat earther.
I’m not a flat earther, but i can and do admit my mistakes. Pride is a fools fortress and shame’s cloak. Cast it off if you can. You make mistakes all the time.
Irony
Words have meanings. It isn’t irony that you failed to find and link to the quote of me saying “truth is arbitrary”. It isn’t irony that you have repeatedly lied about me saying it. It isn’t irony that you are lying to yourself about claiming false things and falsely attributing them to the people you are “discussing” with instead of quoting them.
Proven falsehood.
In your mind, yes. In reality it is just a view that differs from yours that you desperately need/want to be false. I already know you don’t know how to prove this falsehood, and this is just a rhetorical statement of your steadfast belief.
You literally just admitted otherwise.
Please learn to read. Or at least quote/cite the statement i made that led to your willful misinterpretation so that i can explain what i meant.
I guess the holocaust happened because some kike dedicated decades of his life to “studying” it
This is a relevant example. Most people would call your views on the holocaust “proven falsehoods”, as you do about flat earth views. Does that make them correct?
banning of all flat earth spam like you spew.
I don’t spam, nor spew “flat earth”. You would know that if you would only read my comments to you and others. If you are a bot, then i understand why you cant - otherwise, you should work harder at it.
I haven’t posted any opinions
Those holocaust historians say the exact same thing. Does that make them right? Are you seeing any parallels here? Your opinion is that flat earth is a proven falsehood, and only spam. You preach it as a zealot with absolute certainty and an authoritarian lust to silence all heretics/dissenters - exactly like the historians mentioned above.
Done. Millions of times. Every day. For thousands of years
This is wrong. You are meant to believe and repeat it, but if you try to explain precisely when, how, and by whom this proof/disproof took place you will fail. That’s why you didn’t list it already - because it does not exist to list. Instead you wax on in generalization of “everything” and “always” proves you right - which is functionally equivalent to nothing does.
Nah
Suit yourself, but then don’t be surprised when others are ignorant of the knowledge you choose to horde/withhold. It is our duty to share the truth if we have it, and fight against ignorance in ourselves and our brothers and sisters.
Where’s your demonstration
I have many to offer, but there is no need to be so hostile just because you don’t! What demonstration do you seek?
you utterly failed - me
Projection - you
Have you forgotten the challenge you failed already? You were supposed to find (and link to) the comment in which i said “truth is arbitrary” which you falsely attributed to me. Don’r be upset because you failed; just admit your mistake and move on. It’s how we grow. It isn’t your first mistake, and it won’t be your last. There is no shame in making a mistake, but there is great shame in refusing to admit it out of pride.
How is a measurement tool used if not by looking at it?
You are being willfully obtuse. Obviously the measurement tool does not look, it measures. Looking and measuring are different, and sight is not required to measure or live. You seem to be getting bogged down in minutia to “defend your point”, but it is only muddling the conversation. You can “win the point” if you must, but you are losing the thread of the conversation in the process.
The horizon is a word that denotes where the the land meets the sky from our perspective
Yes, where it appears to meet from our perspective. It is an optical illusion chiefly caused by the angular resolution limits of our eyes.
lake and sea beds are where the water stops and land begins
That is a physical location, the horizon is not. It’s apparent distance changes with weather conditions, and no matter how much you want to reach it, it always recedes from you - exactly like a rainbow, and for extremely similar reasons.
the horizon, the shoreline, the coastline
🎶One of these things is not like the other ones, one of these things does not belong🎶 :)
That is what these words, like horizon, denote: not an illusion. It's not a mystery or a lie.
I agree, it is simply an mistake/error that we were taught. The horizon is not a physical location, it is an optical illusion. You cannot infer the shape of the world from an optical illusion. “Flat earthers” erroneously point to a flat horizon as proof the world is flat. Globe earth believers erroneously think that the horizon curves and proves a spherical earth. They are mirrors of the same fundamental mistake.
You've simply misunderstood what it means.
You don’t have to agree with me, but you could understand me if you wish to. The misunderstanding is what we were both taught about the physical reality of the horizon being the “edge of the world”. It isn’t; it’s just the edge of our vision.
If your next reply requires more explanations
None of my replies have really required any explanations from you. You will never understand my perspective by explaining yours, and it is crazy to think that is the way it ought to work. As i said, if you want to understand my perspective, my reasoning, and my evidence - you should try asking questions!
The only thing I'm doing that is silly is engaging with your replies.
You only believe this because of your bias that what i am saying has to be bullshit. You cannot earnestly or objectively evaluate with such a bias, and in reality it is a conditioned response to protect your worldview.
Arguing to the contrary is merely being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, nothing more.
It isn’t contrarian to point out that measuring and vision are separate and distinct. Measurement is done with many tools, none of which are the human eye (for good reason!).
By the "logic" of your "main point", everything seen by the human eye is an endless optical illusion
No, you’re being silly again. I never said that everything was an optical illusion, i only said that the horizon was. Did you really misunderstand me, or do you just want to for rhetorical and rationalizational purpose? If you really think i said, or implied, that everything the human eye sees is an endless optical illusion, please quote what i said which made you think that so that we can discuss it.
I'm not interested in delving into holographic universe or where ever this is going
I share your loathing for sophistry. There are few i dislike more than the simulationists/holosexuals. Perish the thought! I’m talking about demonstrably observable (i.e. measurable!), manifest objective reality and science.
The horizon is an optical illusion, not a place. We were mistaught about it. No bullshit, no holographic simulation, no “everything is just an optical illusion created by your mind” - hippy dippy nonsense.
Your stance against the obvious curve of the horizon in these videos is profoundly flawed and not based on logic or reason.
And you will always presume/imagine it is so unless you take the time to understand the logic and reason! Asking questions would be a good first step! Assuming you already understand, and making erroneous statements based on your flawed assumptions is not a good way to learn about the perspectives of others.
Then you don’t get to comment
I am much more knowledgeable on the subject than you are, because i have spent much more time studying it. As a result i am much better suited to comment on it than you are. Even though that is obviously true, i would not seek to suppress or revoke your ability to comment (or otherwise discuss the topic) because that would prevent you from ever learning more about it, and all deserve the chance to earnestly express themselves.
The ignorant, like yourself, deserve to comment every bit as much as the learned/studied - perhaps more so because they can benefit so much more from engagement in the topic!
in your deluded view, you are the learned with “the truth” (despite having spent no time studying the subject) - and if this were in fact the case it would be your duty to share that truth with “ignorant” commenters who have differing views to yours. No, incessant calls to suicide and ad hominem are not effective ways to convey your knowledge to others.
Then you don’t support flat earth being allowed to be posted here.
You only think (incorrectly/erroneously) that the topic is spam because you don’t understand it and haven’t studied it earnestly. Your opinions on any topic don’t make it spam, even if it is untrue. If you could demonstrate it is untrue, then it is your duty to do so! Sadly, all you seem capable of is parroting and ad hominem :(
Discussion over
Lol. As i’ve said to you many times; can a discussion ever be over before it’s begun? You just stick your fingers in your ears and scream like a child - no discussion ever takes place. it’s one of the reasons i increasingly hope you are a bot - for your sake.
So learn how to fucking process information at a level above that of a second grader
Practice what you preach brother or sister (or hopefully, bot)!
Don’t be angry that you got caught lying to yourself! Don’t be angry at me that you utterly failed to link to when i made that statement you fabricated and falsely attributed to me! Just admit your mistakes and try to do better, and/or get your programmer to fix you.
Not exactly. The first step of the scientific method is observe, not merely look. In empiricism (aka science), observation means measurement.
The scientific method also has nothing to do with what we are discussing. The scientific method is not used to establish/determine natural/scientific law, like the shapes of various things - which we are discussing.
Besides, when you properly know what the horizon is - the whole line of reasoning becomes foolish. Even if the optical illusion of the horizon curved, it wouldn’t establish the shape of the world. The entire thing is a red herring.
One of the reasons that repeated and rigorous measurement is required in science is because what we see is often not what is - especially from a great distance.
Measurement cannot exist without looking
You can’t really think that.
Looking is the essence of measurement
Looking may lead to measuring, but no - it is not the essence of it.
Is it harder to measure without eyes, sure - it’s harder to live without them. Are eyes necessary to measure (or live)? of course not - don’t be silly!
Used in combination with "ground knowledge" it is only going to improve accuracy.
You seem to be overly fixated on minutia here. The main point is that the horizon is an optical illusion, not the “edge of the world” which we could study/measure/look at to determine its shape.
Is earth flat.
Not according to you, but you just parrot what you’re taught. Other people have other views. Most people would say no, but that doesn’t make them right. Truth is not democratic (thank god). My personal answer is, “i don’t know”. It certainly has topography and so is not perfectly flat in any case - so i could also answer no if you like - but that would sidestep the spirit of your question.
Do you support the posting of spam on this board.
I already told you no...
Also, if you want to actually ask questions - try using a question mark!
Behave like a jew one more time and you get nothing but mockery in every reply for the rest of your time here.
Lol, the tantruming child demanding the adults act better or they will continue to act poorly :( You aren’t capable of a higher standard of discourse/interaction. By all means prove me wrong and grow up, at your leisure of course.
I say exactly what the person quoted has said.
Lying to yourself is bad for you. Please link to when i said “truth is arbitrary” which you “quoted” here (https://communities.win/c/Conspiracies/p/16aA98Z6t0/flat-earth-conspiracy-theory-exp/c/4Tq1OEIdiG0), and when you fail to do so - please learn something.
Yawn, can’t read.
At least you can admit that! Perhaps you should learn to before you try “communicating” again though.
Thanks for admitting you lied earlier in the thread, then.
You are having a schizo conversation with the voices in your head. Above in this comment i linked to when you made this “quote” up, which you are now responding to yourself about me “lying” in a statement you made! Again, when you fail to find the original statement you fabricated and falsely attributed to me (explicitly mentioned and linked to above) i hope you can learn something (or your programmer can fix you).
Answer the two questions
I did, but i wouldn’t have had to if your reading comprehension weren’t so atrocious. I have answered those questions many times in pervious discussions with you, and one of them explicitly in this current comment thread.
No, we don’t just “trust our eyes” in science. That would be stupid.
Notably, this “just trust your eyes” position is used by many flat earthers to “prove” the world is flat.
Your contrived/fabricated statement becomes :
“Don’t trust your lying eyes! The world only looks flat, but is actually spherical because there is no truth but mine; everything else is fake”
You're basically arguing that it's unscientific to climb to a higher vantage point to get better bearings
It is unscientific to merely look, yes. Science (empiricism) requires measurement - for very good reason. It is not easier to measure things as you get farther and farther away from them.
It is both stupid and unscientific to go away from the earth, high in the sky, to measure the shape of the world. That is not the same thing as your misinterpretation, no.
Does it bother you that you have to fabricate things that i didn’t say because you can’t rationally respond to any of the the things i actually said? It would bother me if i were you ...
In any case, your fabricated “quote” is nonsensical. Math is merely a language. It isn’t fake, but everything written with it isn’t automatically true/real as a result.
I agree that the footage of a flat horizon, from any altitude, is not “proof” or even particularly compelling evidence for the shape of the entire world.
However, it is good evidence that we were mistaught about what the horizon is and that, supposedly, because it appears to curve at some increasingly (literally, since this myth began to be spread, the altitude required to supposedly see it always increases with public ability to verify/refute it) unattainable altitude - that proves the world is spherical. Both “proofs” are bunk, and for similar reasons.
Ah, the classics.
There are so many ways to approach this one, but at the end of the day it is all a red herring predicated upon a widely educated mistake.
The horizon does not curve at any altitude, because the horizon is not a physical location but an optical illusion. It is the limit of our vision, and presents as a perfectly flat horizontal line that surrounds us 360 degrees. The apparent curve seen in videos/pictures like this is always due to distortion (though the lens itself is only one source).
Because it is not (as we are mistaught) the “edge of the world”, it does not pertain to the shape of it - regardless of what that shape is. It’s as silly as saying that rainbows prove the curved shape of the world (or dome), and for very similar reasons.
The earth and its shape are down here! There is no sense (or science) in trying to get further away from it in order to measure that shape! That literally makes the shape harder to measure and science requires measurement (empiricism) not merely looking! There is very good reason for this - because what we see is often not what is. In the words of obi wan, “Your eyes can deceive you; don’t trust them”.
It’s all red herring and distraction. It’s something you have to get beyond if you want to earnestly penetrate the subject.
Never happened.
You do it incessantly. As is said, lying to yourself (or anyone else) only harms you and your ability to be honest at all - ever.
You most often write the made up quotes to respond to in your comments. You almost never actually quote what the person you are “speaking” with said. You should try doing that though, it will help you.
Didn’t happen
If you would like me to quote you explicitly and link to it, just let me know! I’d be happy to oblige if it would help you.
You’re not fooling anyone
That’s true, you’re not. I am not seeking to. But thanks for demonstrating my initial point again (i.e. you fabricate things to respond to instead of quote what was actually said)
Thanks for admitting the earth isn’t flat
Assuming you are not a bot, which i hope less and less is the case as i interact with you, lrn2read.
truth is arbitrary
Why do you say such stupid, untrue, and ridiculous things? Try responding to what I say, not what the voices in your head tell you; those, you should ignore.
[makes up bullshit no one said]
Yes, you do that frequently. You should stop.
I just repeated your position. If you don’t like it, change your position! Pretending it isn’t what you think and said, is foolish and self harming.
[acts surprised when someone calls out his strawman]
For the love of god, please finally lookup the word strawman.
All i did was repeat your position. There is no sense in lying to yourself about it. You admit that people expressing or even considering “verboten”/forbidden/heretical views should be immediately banned/silenced. A run of the mill religious zealot.
Earth not flat
Does repeating this mantra help you?
The world is whatever shape it is, despite your unshakable faith and droning mantras.
If your mantra was wrong (considering you have been wrong many times before and will be many times again) would you want to know that?
You paid shill
Yes, yes - everyone who has differing views to you is automatically a shill and justifies your ad hominem, calls to suicide, and arbitrary dismissal. How dreadfully convenient :(.
Spam not allowed
On this, we are agreed.
It doesn't sound wild
Imagine/consider it was true. You don’t think that would be wild?! I certainly did!
it sounds lacking in foundation
And you may continue to flatly presume that, or you could potentially ask a question or two / address the content in a substantive way.
and contrary to observations and reality
It is contrary to belief as to what causes those observations, but not the observations themselves.
You have been very straightforward, which i appreciate, that you are not interested in learning about the subject in any way - but you did ask a valid and reasonable question which in my estimation deserved an earnest response.
Of course, my response may differ greatly from the op’s, and it is certainly not nearly detailed enough to justify/support itself (that would be quite the feat in a sentence or two) alone - but it does have support if you are ever interested in exploring it further!
Physics bit is more complicated.
Obfuscation by feigned abstruseness.
The “physics” (astrophysics, in point of fact) i am criticizing is not particularly complicated. It’s just intractable, wrong, and fictional.
"what goes up must come down" is correct
I’m glad you recognize that. Many don’t, and mistakenly conflate the law of gravity with the theory of gravitation. My criticisms are towards the latter, not the former.
but you simply not understand this: ... Gravity is "a string" keeping it from running.
I understand centripetal force just fine. I know that you imagine (and were taught) gravitation as a string that is attached in some mysterious and persistently unknown way to bodies at a distance - but i am saying that is entirely fictional, and was its clear historical origin as well.
Gravity well
Right, that’s relativistic fiction. There is no spacetime to warp, whatsoever.
Because orbit is, and was from its historical inception, fictional (As wild as i know that sounds/is). Roughly, it is because of the law of gravity - what goes up, must come down.
Balloon is likely not the only way to keep them aloft, at least hypothetically, but it is the most reasonable/likely considering that orbit does not exist (and the early history of satellites).
Are you ever going to lookup the word strawman? You just won’t stop misusing it :( Perhaps if you knew what it meant, you would stop.
You literally believe that certain views are forbidden/“verboten”, and anyone that has them should be banned. It isn’t a strawman, it is your own explicit admission.
Thanks for admitting the Earth isn’t flat.
Lol. Lrn2read.
spam is forbidden here.
Certainly that can’t be - you’d be permabanned. Your reflexive and pathological belligerence is only hurting you brother or sister (assuming you are human at all).
Lol.
“Anyone who questions my inerrant and godly truth/dogma is a heretic and must be burnt at the stake!”
Don’t be such a religious zealot if you can help it. if your views can only be protected by such censorship, then your views are weak.
The Earth isn’t flat.
Perhaps. But if you were wrong, would you want to know it? I sure would!
There is no shame in being wrong. You (and i) are wrong about LOTS of stuff - probably more than we are right about. It was always so, and will likely always be.
if you can’t do 5th grade mathematics.
This has nothing to do with mathematics. If the world is flat, mathematics remain unchanged - obviously!
Your belligerence and inability/unwillingness to discuss/research differing views is sure to keep you stagnant and ignorant :( I urge you to reconsider - regardless of what the shape of the earth is.
Most “normies” will run away at the mention of anything on your list (in the first or second panels). Does that prove that there is no reality/merit to studying them?
you are arguing that it does, perhaps inadvertently. you are arguing against this community and the reasons for it.
reality is stranger than fiction because fiction is obliged to possibilities. the average person has been conditioned not to consider or spend time researching/discussing topics that do not fit in their current worldview.
subjects “verboten” to study by our “authorities” are likely the ones most valuable... don’t you agree?
I concluded the same. It took the “scamdemic” for me to figure it out though :(
I ahould have recognized obvious (and common) anti-irish propaganda when i saw it. She was a media scapegoat, probably for some parasite that entered (was introduced to) the food or water supply.
Conpro may have some thoughts on this one too.
The flat earth psyop is certainly not organic, and is heavily advertised (i.e. funded).
Its purpose is to suppress and discredit the subject while subverting the genuine organic interest (and earnest research/researchers)