So if you escape, they can't do this anymore plus your whole life goes from a mediocre one to a great one
Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished and he will rule over all." - Gospel of Thomas.
This is Plato's allegory of the cave. It's a wonderful story told by Plato. The prisoner who escapes the cave and sees the real world with sunlight... At first, it's painful. It's confusing. The light blinds him. But if he persists, eventually he sees the truth. And then he returns to the cave with knowledge and wisdom that the other prisoners don't have. So the spiritual path is painful. It involves confusion and struggle. But if you persist, you will see reality as it truly is.
We live in the shadow world. So everything in the shadow world is only a imitation of the forms. Most of humanity is chained, watching shadows on the wall, believing the shadows are reality. You are the prisoner who managed to turn your head. You saw the fire. You saw the puppets casting the shadows. And once you see the mechanism of the illusion, you can never truly go back to watching the show like everyone else. The friction you feel in your life. That deep bone level exhaustion is not because you are broken. It is because you are a high-fidelity receiver trying to function in a low-fidelity world. This leads us to the most uncomfortable question. If you are from a higher frequency, why are you here?
I looked at all the classic discrepancies alleged in the Bible, and found that 100% of them rely upon assuming one knows better rather than looking into the culture to see if the person could have had a consistent meaning. The same is true of other holy books like the Quran
Personally, I don't need to look, I would expect discrepancies and errors in the Bible. Many different writers, most likely by people who never met Jesus, the books were written over a relatively long period of time, etc. As for translations, all the Bibles, every single one out there today require translation. Every single word you've read in the Bible is a translation. And every translation is an interpretation. And many are mistranslations. Some could not have been avoided, however many were deliberate. And I don't care how hard you try to convince me of the contrary, it won't work. I studied people all my life, I know how they work and behave. And I use critical thinking and know how to connect the dots.
Also, there are many misinterpretations. The Bible is hard to understand and in most cases requires some assistance. Just ask the jews. They have a tremendous respect for learning and for literacy. That said, there are certain problems with the tradition. The first is it's contradictory. When you read the Bible, it's always contradicting itself. It's almost schizophrenic. You could say it's very hard to pick out a definite message from the Bible. And that's why the oral tradition called the Oral Torah is actually much more important. And so Jews have to go to the synagogue all the time where the rabbi will explain to them the meaning of the Bible because if you read it by yourself, it's almost impossible to understand.
All the 19th-century skepticism against the Bible rejected the text as culturally transmitted and stood against it to fight it; in prior eras nobody could mass together to do that
Personally I'm more concerned about what's being omitted, as I said in the past. Let me give you an example. Take the two back-to-back statements of the Apostles Creed namely that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost born of the Virgin Mary and that he was crucified died and was buried and on the third day he rose again from the dead. It is striking to me that this oldest and most foundational Christian Creed jumps from Jesus's birth to his death and Resurrection entirely skipping over his life. How did it happen that the way Jesus came into the world and how he left Christmas and Easter came to Define Christianity itself? where did this emphasis on the entrance and exit points of Jesus's heavenly existence come from? and how did it achieve such centrality even above that of Jesus's life and teachings?
Kabbalah... containing ten core attributes, the withdrawal of light and the divine spark, and the return of human superpowers, very much like gnosticism with its aeons. Its only problem is if it denies the nature of God while getting sidetracked with its human advancement
IMO, it has more than one problem. Just the fact that Kabbalah is studied and practised by so many world leaders today is a red flag for me. Also, I can't get a straight answer to any Kabbalah question from any of the popular AI engines out there. Like I said, I'm a very strong believer in connecting the dots. You may or may not be aware Donald Trump is a self-confessed kabbalist. Quote from his 2004 book 'The Way to the Top', page 188 "..my Kabbalah teacher, Eitan Yardeni..".
If it's not proven to someone that love is the way, the message doesn't click. Love requires both the spirit and the mind;
IMO, if you have to prove to any human being that love is the way, we've lost the war for Humanity. But, I do agree with you love it's a spiritual thing. That's why an AI robot, IMO, could never feel love. AI can pretend to feel love. AI can say, "I love you.". And if you challenge it to describe how love feels, AI can provide the best verbal description in the world. AI can read countless love poems and psychology books and can then describe the feeling of love much better than any human poet, psychologist or lover. But these are just words. In the Bible the spirit of love is much more important than the letter of the law. This tension between spirit and letter existed in every religion, every legal system, even every person. Now this tension will be externalized. It will become the tension not between different humans. This will be the tension between humans and AIs, the new masters of words.
If we read the Divine Comedy, Dante's categorical imperative is very simple. Love someone. Doesn't matter who, could be your wife, it could be your mother or it could be your child. It could be your best friend. But love that person and when you love that person then all these three things are true: do not manipulate people, do not use people, treat people with respect. It means you are now going to be your best. It means you are treating this person with respect. It means that you're choosing to love this person. So love is the unifying force of the universe. That's what Dante is really saying.
Didn't happen, fren. There's no Nicene action about the Scriptural canon.
Neither you nor I were alive in 325 AD, or the 4th and 5th century. And we both have to rely on what's being documented about these times and events. For instance when it comes to the Gospel of Thomas, I could say the same thing you often say "Don't know where you're getting that". According to Wikipedia "Assigning a date to the Gospel of Thomas is very complex because it is difficult to know precisely to what a date is being assigned (then why are you saying "it was dated 340", why not 339 or 341? I'm aware some have dated the Gospel of Thomas discovered at Nag Hammadi to 340 AD, but that's just picking a number out of the air). Scholars have proposed a date as early as 60 AD or as late as 140 AD"
And according to SacredTexts "We have two versions of the Gospel of Thomas today. The first was discovered in the late 1800's among the Oxyrhynchus Papyri, and consists of fragments of a Greek version, which has been dated to c. 200. The second is a complete version, in Coptic, from Codex II of the Nag Hammadi finds.".
But, me as a critical thinking person I'm asking "Why the Gospel of Thomas isn’t in the Bible?". And I think it's a reasonable question to ask in 2026 AD. Then as you say "The Gospel of Mary didn't circulate enough to get much notice from the church", my question is "Why not?". When archaeologists finally deciphered The Gospel of Mary Magdalene in 1896 when they could finally read the entire text they understood why the Vatican demanded it never see the light of day. Why? What was in the manuscript discovered in Cairo that so terrified the most powerful church in the world? What truth had to remain hidden at any cost? Because according to this lost gospel, Mary Magdalene wasn't a repentant prostitute. That was a lie invented centuries later. She wasn't a mere follower walking behind the apostles. That was a deliberate distortion of her true role. She wasn't who the church told us she was for 2,000 years. That was an unprecedented historical manipulation. She was the guardian of a secret. A secret Jesus revealed to her and only her. A secret the other apostles knew nothing about. A secret about how the human soul can become immortal. Mary Magdalene was in many of the texts found at Nag Hammadi the embodiment of that direct unmediated divine knowledge. In the Gospel of Mary, she shares visions with the disciples that they cannot comprehend. When Peter and the others argue, caught up in jealousy and fear. It's Mary who stands as a bridge, a voice of wisdom.
I'm all for going to all the sources, there's tremendous much in Egyptology for instance
I'll have to respond to the rest of your message some other time. I can't now. But, you're raising an interesting subject Egyptology.
The actual Greek for hearken or obey is hypakouo G5219
I know that. Just read carefully what I wrote "John seems to use active tense". Anyway, I don't want to discuss this any longer.
Ehrman is credentialed but not the guy you want for history as he has an axe to grind. However, if you choose to take his view against those who count Luke the most exact and accurate historian of the era
I don't judge or dismiss anyone, and that includes Bart Ehrman. And I don't care how many credentials one has. I'm interested in the message and Ehrman is absolutely correct here and many other places where he talks about obvious errors and contradictions in the Bible. That's exactly what I found on my own.
I don't really have an issue with you considering "Luke the most exact and accurate historian of the era", however, it's important to note that Luke's historical accounts include both solid data and imaginative reconstructions.
So did the kabbalists, who informed Talmudism
Since you mentioned kabbalists I'm curious to know your view on Kabbalah.
the message of Jesus can be proven without Luke, Acts, Paul, or Hebrews, if you like
Proving Jesus's message? why?
Like I said before Jesus came to teach a message of love and forgiveness and spiritual transformation. There's nothing to prove here. And who needs any proof anyway?
But unless there's evidence they were more inspired than Matthew, Mark, and John, I stick with the direct testimony of what Jesus said
And it doesn't matter what Thomas, Philip, Judas or Mary Magdalene had to say. Hmmm...
You say Matthew, Mark, and John, but I'm sure you mean Luke as well. This takes me back to the council of Nicaea in 325 AD, where Emperor Constantine and the bishops chose which gospels would be canonized and which would be hidden or destroyed. The alternative gospels, Gospel of Thomas a collection of sayings of Jesus given secretly to the apostles, those that gave Mary Magdalene her true power, The Gospel of Philip, The Gospel of Truth, The Gospel of the Egyptians and many more were rejected, their teachings suppressed for centuries. These gospels were branded heresy. Their wisdom was forbidden. And the memory blurred until only fragments remained. But those fragments, those forbidden lines and half buried stories, refuse to die.
There's no evidence church leaders suppressed
I'm getting used to this phrase, "there's no evidence". I've seen it so many times in your replies...
I'm trying to think of a way where a lower level of attention (by leaders who were regularly persecuted) somehow connotes active, official animus, and I don't see it. I do see that Constantine personally censored Arius in 325 as a civil matter, requiring his works to be burned up on pain of death, but Arius was no gnostic
Yes, Gnostics were subjected to censorship. However, it is known that efforts to destroy Gnostic texts were largely successful, resulting in the survival of very little writing by Gnostic thinkers and theologians. And yes, Gnostics were persecuted. Gnostic groups were often persecuted as a result of being declared a heresy. The response of orthodoxy to gnosticism significantly defined the evolution of Christian doctrine and church order. After gnostic and orthodox Christianity parted, Gnostic Christianity continued as a separate movement in some areas for centuries. There's no denial the persecution of Gnostics took place, for example, during the Inquisition and the Albigensian Crusade.
of course, Peter says Paul is Scripture
Okay. Since you brought up Peter tell me who do you think he was.
Personally I would like to talk about Mary Magdalene. She was not an outcast, as we were led to believe, but was Jesus's closest companion, the one he trusted most with his deepest teachings, the one Peter envied. We could talk about Peter some other time if you wish, I'm still curios on your pov. Mary Magdalene's name is almost always listed first among the women in the gospels, a subtle, powerful signal of her leadership. Just as Peter stands at the head of the male disciples, Mary is the one who leads among the women. Mary wasn't just a disciple, but a mirror for the divine feminine and perhaps one of the most important parts of this sacred story. A story they've quietly hidden from all of us. So why was she silenced? Why for generations did powerful forces work so hard to erase her legacy, twist her image, and bury her wisdom deep within layers of dogma and denial?
I showed you John 14:1 and I don't know your thoughts on it... Jesus taught faith (believing) in himself
The word used here πιστεύω (pisteúō) means to obey. Strong 4100 pisteúō (from 4102 pístis). John seems to use active tense pisteuō rather than pistis in his gospel. Suggests most of the translations in John are about obeying in Jesus rather than simply obeying him[John] or any other earthly authority.
When Jesus speaks of knowing yourself it's in more of a negative sense, Luke 9:55
Like I said before we don't know for certain who wrote the Gospel according to Luke, but we do know whoever wrote it was sympathetic of Paul. Most likely a follower of Paul. "The gospels are written by men and it seems to me that it perhaps shouldn't be as problematic as people claim it might be to just say look I still believe in the thrust of the story but Luke just got this bit wrong. I know well it'd be much easier for people just to do that and a lot of people do of course. I was trained at Princeton Theological Seminary..." - Bart Ehrman
Calling it a "spark" isn't clear at all; he obviously taught on the "image" of God in man
It's very clear to me. The Gnostics called it the divine spark. A fragment of the original light not trapped in your body like a prisoner but radiating through your body like light through a window. The window is not the light. But without the window, the light does not enter the room. All you have to do is create a space within your mind. That's what Buddhists do, just pay attention. In that gap lives your freedom. In that gap the spark becomes perceptible. The Gnostic teachers called this gap the bridal chamber. This bridal chamber in the Gospel of Philip is a metaphor for a divine union. The place where the divided reunites. The Gospel of Thomas says, "When you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, then you will enter the kingdom.". This is not riddle. This is instruction. When your inner attention becomes as vivid as your outer attention, when you can perceive inwardly with the same clarity you perceive outwardly, the barrier dissolves. The kingdom you have been seeking outside reveals itself to have been accessible from within all along.
Remember I was talking about Jesus's message, recognition, authority and declaration. First comes recognition. You are not creating this spark. You are not imagining it. You are simply noticing what was always there. A part of you already knows this. A part of you remembers this. That knowing is not coming from your brain. Your brain never learned this. That knowing is coming from the spark itself. It recognizes its own path home. Next is the loosening of fear. Fear is fundamentally an outward orientation. It is concern about what might come from outside to harm you. When you establish yourself inwardly, you find a place that cannot be threatened. The body can be touched, the mind can be disturbed, but the spark is beyond reach. It existed before this body and will exist after. From that place, fear becomes information rather than prison. You can feel it without being controlled by it. This is not denial of fear. This is transcendence of fear. The spark knows things your mind does not. When you establish connection with it, you begin to receive direction. Not as audible voices, not as visions, as knowing. You simply know to go here, to avoid there, to speak now, to stay silent. The more you trust this guidance, the more accurate it becomes. Jesus's mission was not to glorify this world but to expose its counterfeit nature and to awaken the divine spark trapped within humanity. According to Gnostics this spark serves as the navigator for the voyage homeward. It doesn't proclaim loudly, it murmurs softly. The more attentively you heed, the more potent it grows. Igniting the divine spark means reclaiming your true identity. Not solely a vessel or a consciousness, but an entity forged from the Monad's infinite substance.
The apostles taught predestination, Acts 4:28, in accord with the tradition saying all is foreknown and determined and yet free will is given
I agree that's what it says. Also, Paul teaches predestination and he argues that faith is a gift from God rather being something self-generated. But, I'm not saying to "make a distinction between faith being a gift and faith being something one does". You don't need faith, all you need is recognition, that is recognize the divine spark in you. And once you do that you know you have authority. Lucifer did not create your divine spark. He created the cage that surrounds it. And he appointed the archons to guard that cage and keep you from remembering what you truly are.
If you doubt the view of the majority
I always doubt the view of the majority. It's probably the most important lesson I have learned in life, the majority is most of the time wrong. Jesus said the majority still go on the broad way to destruction (Mat 7:13).
Why did he say to honor everything that comes from Moses's seat, and everything belonging to Caesar
Jesus's message is about compassion of forgiveness. Not about Moses or Caesar. Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven because if you're poor you are defying the material reality to win in this game created by Lucifer you yourself have to become a monster therefore the wealthy the powerful are evil people. If you're poor you don't participate in this evilness and therefore you're you are blessed by God.
They weren't rejected, they just never rose to become Scripture.
Okay. To me that's just another way of defining censorship.
how to correct the narrative or how blaming Paul does any good
It's not just Paul. IMO, it's everything that served the imperial interests since Paul.
Jesus's law?
Jesus mission was not to bring a Law, but to demonstrate it. He came to end the need for religion by showing the direct path to divine consciousness. He didn't die for your sins. He died to show sin is illusion. Death is illusion. Separation is illusion. He didn't perform miracles. He demonstrated natural laws that include consciousness as a creative force.
But, Jesus has a message, a message of three components wrapped into one package: recognition, authority and declaration. Jesus said you must know what you are, not believe. His message clearly says: you are a divine spark temporarily housed in a material body. You are not your fears. You are not your failures. You are not the story the world has told you about yourself. You carry the light of the Monad. You do not ask. You do not beg. You do not request. You speak as what you are. As a declaration of what is already true at the deepest level of existence. This is the revolution that Jesus started. This is the truth that has been hidden. This is the power that has always been ours.
On the other hand Paul's teachings are on belief: Faith in Jesus, Predestination (he argues that faith is a gift from God, not something self-generated), Conversion and Belief in the Resurrection.
maybe you think "believe" and "have faith" are different?
Maybe you misunderstood what I said. There were enormous consequences from what Paul did. He radically changed the meaning of faith and religion itself. Before Paul, faith meant lived experience. Faith meant your relationship with the divine that you cultivated through practice, through study, through ethical living. Faith was something you experienced directly. But Paul introduced a new concept. Faith became belief. Faith became accepting certain propositional claims. Jesus is the son of God. Jesus died for your sins. Jesus was resurrected. If you believe these things, you're saved. If you don't believe them, you're damned. This is radically different. This makes debate about theological positions not about lived spiritual experience. Paul also introduced a concept of miracles as explanatory devices. If something doesn't make logical sense, it's a miracle. How was Jesus born of a virgin? Miracle. How did Jesus walk on water? Miracle. How was Jesus resurrected? Miracle. The function of miracles in Paul's theology is to explain away contradictions and inconsistencies. Don't question the logical problems. Don't try to understand it rationally. Just accept it as miraculous. Another major innovation was elevating tradition above scripture. Paul's church, which eventually became the Catholic Church, taught that tradition, the teachings passed down through church authority is more important than the Bible itself. In fact, for most of Christian history, ordinary people were not allowed to read the Bible. The Bible was kept in Latin, which most people didn't understand. Only priests could read it and interpret it because the church taught that if ordinary people read the Bible, they might misinterpret it. They don't have the spiritual authority to understand it correctly. So religious truth comes not from direct study of sacred text but from submission to church authority. The church tells you what to believe and you believe it. That's faith.
among the Jews Paul upheld purity too. Do you see texts otherwise?
Like I said in my previous message Paul's mission was assimilation but not assimilation that destroys Jewish identity. To that extent I agree Paul upheld purity. But, all his innovations serve institutional power. So there 's no issue for Rome. They make religion about control, about hierarchy, about obedience to authority rather than about direct spiritual experience. Now, let me address another question you might have. If Paul was controversial, if there were people who saw through what he was doing, then who wrote the Acts of the Apostles, which presents such a positive picture of Paul? Great question. We don't know for certain who wrote Acts, but we do know that whoever wrote Acts also wrote the Gospel of Luke. They're written by the same author in the same style as part one and part two of a continuous narrative.
Acts is very poor Paul. It presents Paul in the most sympathetic light possible. It shows him as a heroic figure persecuted by Jews, protected by Romans, spreading the faith despite hardships. Now, why would someone write this? Because at this time, there were many people, especially Jewish Christians, who hated Paul. They believed Paul had corrupted the teachings of Jesus. They believe Paul was a traitor who had sold out to Rome.
Jesus already taught submission to earthly authority, both Jewish and Roman
Jesus taught the exact opposite of submission to any authority. Earthly or otherwise. Like I said before, Paul takes Jesus’s message of spiritual autonomy from the Monad and reconstructs it as a message of spiritual submission... a slave of sorts. Let me put this in other words, and I'm going to use a strong word just to highlight the intent, Paul hijacks Jesus's message. Paul took Jesus's message of spiritual autonomy and reconstructed it as a message of spiritual submission. Jesus says “listen to my words”, Paul says “believe me of who Jesus is”.
Later the Roman Empire's adoption of Christianity under Constantine wasn't the triumph of spiritual truth over paganism that Church teaches today. It was the hijacking of a liberation movement and its transformation into a control system. Constantine needed a version of Christianity that would support imperial authority, not undermine it. The Gnostic teachings with their emphasis on individual direct experience and their rejection of external religious authority were completely incompatible with maintaining an empire built on hierarchy and control. The Council of Nicaea in 325 CE wasn't really about establishing the correct doctrine. It was about eliminating any version of Christianity that could make people spiritually independent.
A mystical Christianity teaching direct access to divine power was dangerous. It had to be replaced with submission, with waiting, with placing all power in priests and institutions. The Gospel of Thomas was rejected because it taught the kingdom is within you. The Gospel of Philip was rejected because it taught techniques for transformation. These were not rejected for being false. They were rejected for being too practical, too liberating.
But to hear how obvious it is to you that Paul contradicted Jesus, and then not to see it in your statements
I have never said Paul contradicted Jesus. He is too cleaver to do that. In this reply I used the word hijacked, and I think you can clearly see this in my statements. You are free to disagree with me. But, whether you agree with my interpretation or not, you should at least see that the official narrative has significant problems. Yet, I have a feeling you're going to say "I don't see any problems.".
Jesus taught and kept Mosaic purity
I have a different take on this, but I will comment in another thread. I'm sure you will not agree with me.
"And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; to them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law"
This is not what Jesus said we ought to do. He taught when you do evil, evil comes into you and corrupts your soul. When you do good, good comes into you and brightens your soul and you brighten the world with it. He said the answer is the spark in you. His message was different than Paul's. When you love someone and that person loves you back, your spark glows. When you become a teacher and your students learn well, your spark glows. You try different things until you find the things that make your spark glow. Jesus can show you the way but you have to discover truth yourself and that's why this is so hard for people to accept because people don't want to accept individual responsibility. Jesus says there's a spark inside of you. And it's your responsibility, not an obligation, but a responsibility to let it grow. If you let it grow, you'll bring happiness to the world. You'll bring happiness to yourself, and you'll be able to feast with the divine in heaven. But this is really hard. You have to take individual responsibility. You have to make mistakes. you have to suffer and grow. Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All.". Show me one place where Paul teaches any of these.
I showed you that Paul preaching faith in Jesus was the same as Jesus preaching it
No you didn't. Again here we have a strong disagreement. Paul preaches faith, Jesus never does. Why is belief more important than behavior? Why would a loving God send good people to hell just because they were born in the wrong culture and never heard of Jesus? Why does there need to be a second coming if Jesus already accomplished his mission? And why do we have to worship Jesus if salvation is supposed to be about God's grace, not about our actions? And the standard Christian answer to all these questions is miracle, mystery, and magic. Don't question it, just believe it. Just embrace it. Faith is more important than reason. Have I left anything out? I see you're quoting from the Bible. Don't bother, first of all I have read it several times and secondly I have many bibles at my finger tips. All you have to do is provide the reference, I'll do the rest, if I have to. Please give me real life examples, use critical thinking, us logic and try to connect the dots. That's what I'm doing. What's the purpose of exploring Church doctrine. You're not going to convince me of anything that way. Also, I don't expect to convince you of anything either. George Orwell said "“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.”. I would like to add to that quote and say: He who can understand the present, could understand the past.
They should strive for Mosaic purity so much more that they realize it can't be done except supernaturally (as Jesus and gnostics both agree).
Again I disagree. A lot of Jesus's teachings go against Jewish religious authority. You know, Jesus is living in Judea, which is a Roman province, but the day-to-day administration is run by Jewish priests. And these Jewish priests teach people to follow the law, to follow the Sabbath, meaning do not work on Saturdays, to obey the law of Moses, to keep all the customs and traditions of the Jewish faith. But according to the Bible, Jesus says, "No, what's important is not following the letter of the law, but following the spirit of God. What matters is the condition of your heart, not whether you perform the correct rituals.". And this creates a conflict because Jesus is essentially rebelling against the authority of the Jewish priests.
You note "Jesus had nothing against the Roman Empire", but then you appear to fault Paul for having nothing against the Empire either.
You misunderstood. Nothing wrong with Paul going along with the system. Otherwise it would been a failed operation, before it even started. Intelligence operations don't work that way. What I'm saying is Paul had connections to Roman power at the highest levels. His family had wealth and citizenship. He had access to military protection whenever he needed it. He had authority that no ordinary person would have. And the message he preached served Roman interests perfectly. It neutralized the most dangerous threat Rome faced. It turned potential rebels into peaceful citizens. It transformed a movement that could have ignited empire wide Jewish revolt into a religion of personal salvation that taught submission to earthly authority. Whether Paul was consciously working as an asset or whether he was unwitting tool, the result was the same.
Paul also taught works There is a difficulty for those who think messages of faith and works are in contradiction, but classical theology resolved the tension between James and Paul long ago.
It wasn't only James the Just. u/Thisisnotanexit And the issue was beyond "tension". But, of course you're free to believe anything you want to believe. IMO, a large number of jews in Jerusalem wanted to kill Paul for his teachings. Which were different than Jesus's teachings. Maybe you're not seeing the dichotomy, but I do. Maybe because I'm looking at the outcome in a different way than you do. So, with that in mind allow me to look at what Paul actually teaches and how each of his "innovations" directly undermines one of these three pillars of Jewish fanaticism. First pillar, purity. Purity means absolute obedience to the law of Moses. Purity means circumcision. Purity means dietary restrictions. Purity means Sabbath observance. Purity means not associating with Gentiles. Purity means indulging only marrying within the faith. But what does Paul say? Paul says circumcision doesn't matter. You don't need to be circumcised to be part of God's people. The law of Moses doesn't matter. What matters is faith in Jesus. The external signs don't matter. What matters is the inner belief. Now, why is circumcision such a big deal? jews know why. So many Jews simply stayed separate from mainstream civic life. This maintained Jewish distinctiveness, but it also isolated Jews from the networks of power and commerce and culture. Paul says, "You don't need to be circumcised.". And if you only be circumcised, then suddenly you can participate in gymnasium culture. You can network with Greeks and Romans. You can integrate into civic life. You're no longer visibly marked as separate. So Paul's message breaks down the barrier of purity. It makes assimilation possible. It allows Jews to become Roman while still claiming to maintain their faith.
Second pillar, persecution complex. Jews believe they're persecuted because they're God's chosen people. The world hates them for their righteousness. This creates intense group solidarity, us against the world. But Paul says, you're not being persecuted because you're righteous. You're being persecuted because you're not Roman citizens. Look at me. I'm a Roman citizen. And the Romans protect me. They don't persecute me. I can preach anything I want and no one touches me. So the solution isn't to resist Rome. The solution is to become Roman, get citizenship, participate in the system, then you have legal protection. Then you can practice your religion freely. The Romans don't care what you believe as long as you don't rebel. Paul's own life story becomes proof of this argument. He was persecuted by Jews, not by Romans. Romans saved him. Romans protected him. Romans gave him safe passage to Rome to appeal to the emperor.
Third pillar, the coming of the Messiah. Jews believe the Messiah will be a warrior king who will lead a military revolt against Rome and establish God's kingdom through violent conquest. But Paul says the Messiah has already come. He was Jesus. And Jesus didn't come to lead a military revolt. Jesus came to teach a message of love and forgiveness and spiritual transformation. Jesus had nothing against the Roman Empire. Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesars's.". Jesus told people to turn the other cheek. Jesus said, "Blessed are the peacemakers.". So if the Messiah already came and his message was peace, not war, then waiting for a military messiah is foolish. That's not the plan. The plan is inner transformation, spiritual salvation, not political revolution.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything, like I said you're free to believe anything you want. But, at least acknowledge this is a very radical view about Paul you haven't heard before. That he is a spy working for the Roman empire. Why don't you look at the present. Today assimilated jews are disrespected just as much as goyim, if not more. Just ask any assimilated jew. Jews still believe they're persecuted because they're God's chosen people. And if say otherwise you're an antisemite, even if you are a jew. And how about Jewish fanaticism, just look at Chabad Lubavitch. Every day they're praying for the coming of the Moshiach. And then look at things from the Roman empire & Paul perspective. If they deal with these three things, then fanaticism disappears. If purity doesn't matter, then you can assimilate. If Roman citizenship protects you, then you don't need to resist. If the Messiah already came with a message of peace, then you're not waiting for a warrior king to lead you into battle. The theological framework completely neutralizes the political threat. This is Roman propaganda designed to make you weak, to make you surrender, to make you abandon the faith. But Paul's message wasn't targeted at fanatical Jews. They were still a minority. Paul's message was targeted at diaspora Jews like himself. Jews who were stuck between two worlds. Jews who had Greek fathers and Jewish mothers. Jews who wanted to participate in Roman society but felt guilt about compromising their traditions. Jews who were tired of being outsiders who wanted to belong. For these people, Paul's message was liberating. You can be Roman and Jewish. You can participate in civic life and still worship the God of Abraham.
IMO, Paul was cleaver. And I also believe he genuinely believed in his mission. His mission was to save his people. And from his perspective, the path the fanatics were taking led to destruction. Rebelling against Rome was suicide. Rome was the most powerful military force in world history. You cannot defeat them through armed resistance. All you do is get yourselves killed. If you want to survive, if you want to preserve Jewish life and culture, you have to adapt. You have to make compromises. You have to work within the Roman system, not against it. And look, there are advantages to Roman civilization. You can become prosperous. You can be educated. You can have security and stability. Roman peace brings benefits if you're willing to participate. So Paul's mission was assimilation but not assimilation that destroys Jewish identity. Assimilation that preserves a modified version of Jewish identity that's compatible with Roman power. In his own mind, Paul was a savior. He was saving the Jewish people from their own suicidal fanaticism. The irony is that to do this, he had to radically transform what it meant to be Jewish. He had to create a new religion that kept some Jewish elements but abandoned others. He had to make Judaism acceptable to Rome. And whether Paul realized or not, whether he intended it or not, he was doing exactly what Roman imperial interests required. And Romans continued with the Paul Project long after Saul of Taurus's death. If something works why fix it?
Institutionalization took 300 years and has many contributors
I understand. Since I will be speaking about Paul here I'm including u/Thisisnotanexit But, to me Paul or Saul of Taurus was not a real person. Or if it was could have been many individuals (assets). To me Paul is nothing more than an intelligence asset working on behalf of Roman imperial interests to neutralize the most dangerous threat the empire had ever faced, Jewish fanaticism. Something that the CIA & Mossad institution at that time would create/invent. That's what they do today 2,000 years later, think of it as the MKUltra program. What was the Roman empire then is the American (including Great Britain & Israel) empire today. Pax Romana became Pax Americana. That's why you have the Fasces symbol in the U.S. Congress. The more things change, the more they stay the same...
Christianity did not spread because Jesus lived long enough to build it. It spread because Paul reinterpreted him for an empire. What most believers never examine is how theology, power, and historical context quietly reshaped Jesus's message after his death. What Jesus believed and taught is fundamentally different from what Christianity teaches us about Jesus. And that gap between the man and the myth, that distance between the teacher and the religion built in his name tells us something crucial about how power works, about how empires operate, about how ideas get transformed when they become useful to those in control. Initially it could have been someone called Saul who was born in Taurus. But, in order to understand how this works, you need to understand Roman history and politics. And you need to understand the Hebrew Bible and Jewish tradition. And in fact, at this time in history, there were individuals who possess all three sets of knowledge. They were called Hellenists in the Roman Empire. If you were a Hellenist Jew, meaning you grew up with Greek education in a Roman context, you had access to all three major knowledge systems, the Hebrew Bible, Greek philosophy, and Roman history. And someone who fits this description was Saul from Taurus.
I believe you are familiar with Acts and the feud between James the Just and Paul. So I will skip that part. But his is how the story of Paul ends. He's in Rome. He can do whatever he wants. He can preach whatever he wants and no one can touch him. So who is this man? How does he have this power? He was in Jerusalem where a mob tried to kill him. Roman soldiers rescued him. He went to Rome and he told the Jewish leaders there, don't challenge me. And they backed down. Some even converted to his version of Christianity. Who is Paul really? So let's step back and look at all the questions in the story of Paul that don't make sense if we accept the official Christian narrative. First question, who is this guy? He has tremendous power and wealth. He has direct access to Roman authority at the highest levels. This is not normal for a religious preacher. This is someone with elite connections. Reminds me of someone recently in the news, Jefferey Epstein. Who also had elite connections and no one could touch him until they couldn't suppress the truth any longer. Then Epstein vanished, I know the official story says he committed suicide.
The other thing I find fascinating about the Paul story, Paul didn't quote Jesus. You would think that if Jesus was so important to Paul that Paul would constantly quote Jesus. He would reference Jesus's teachings. He would tell stories about what Jesus said and did. But Paul rarely quotes Jesus. Jesus's teachings, Jesus's sayings, Jesus's parables. Paul doesn't use them. Why not? If you had a vision of the founder of your religion, wouldn't you want to know everything he taught? Wouldn't you study his words carefully? But Paul doesn't seem interested in what Jesus actually said. And more importantly, the message that Paul preaches is fundamentally different from what Jesus taught. Jesus believed the kingdom of God is within us. Through generosity, through mercy, through good works, we can achieve salvation. Paul teaches it's belief in Jesus that matters. Only believe. You can do as much good as you want, but if you don't believe in Jesus as a son of God who died for your sins, you'll be damned to hell. So all those Buddhists, all those Hindus, all those doists who are living compassionate lives, helping others, seek enlightenment, too bad. They're going to burn in hell forever because they don't believe the specific Christian doctrine that Paul is teaching. This goes completely against the teachings of Jesus who said, "The kingdom of God is open to everyone who does good.". Jesus never said you have to believe in me specifically. He said follow the path. Do what's right. Love your neighbor. That's enough.
Another thing that bothers me, why is Paul so focused on organization? The heart of religion should be spiritual truth, spiritual experience, direct connection with the divine. But Paul doesn't really care about that. He cares about structure. He cares about building churches. He cares about appointing bishops and deacons. He cares about establishing procedures for who's in charge and how decisions are made and how to handle internal disputes. This is not spirituality. This is institution building. This is creating a power structure. why does Paul get in trouble with the Jews? And why do the Romans always save him? In every confrontation, the pattern is the same. Jews accuse Paul. Romans protect Paul. Jews try to hurt Paul. Romans rescue Paul over and over. If Paul were just a religious teacher who happened to be be a Roman citizen, you might see this once, maybe twice, but it's a consistent pattern throughout his entire career. The Romans are always there to protect him. Always. That suggests something more than coincidence. That suggests coordination. To be fair, Christians do have an explanation. The Christian explanation is that Paul was part of God's divine plan. Jesus brought spiritual truth into the world. Jesus taught the way of salvation. But it was Paul who created the structure and organization that allowed Christianity to spread throughout the world. I'm not buying it, but nevertheless it is an explanation.
I'm going to make an analogy here with the McDonalds franchise, because I think could highlight something important. In the 1950s, McDonald's was one restaurant in California run by the McDonalds brothers. They had great hamburgers. They had a good system, but it was just one location. Then a man named Ray Kroc visited the restaurant and he saw the potential. He said to the brothers, "Let me scale this out. Let me create a franchise model. Let me convince other people to open McDonald's restaurants all across America and eventually the world.". And the brother said, "Okay.". And Ray Kroc became one of the greatest salesman in history. He drove everywhere. He held meetings. He convinced people. And because Ray Kroc was such an effective salesman, McDonald's became the largest restaurant empire in the world. The Christian narrative says it's the same with Paul. Jesus was a founder who had the true message. But Paul was a business manager who created the system that allow the message to spread. Jesus taught spiritual truth. Paul built an organization that could spread that truth to millions of people across the entire Roman Empire and eventually across the entire world. But here's a problem with this analogy. Jesus was not selling hamburgers. In fact, Jesus hated hamburgers. Metaphorically speaking, the central message of Jesus is that wealth is wrong, business is wrong, hierarchy is wrong, organization and power structures are corruptions of spiritual truth. What matters is a direct experience of the divine spark in your own heart. Jesus explicitly rejected the idea that you need intermediaries, you don't need priests, you don't need institutions, you don't need buildings, the kingdom of God is within you, it's accessible directly. So even though the Christian explanation is that Paul was Jesus's business manager, the problem is Jesus didn't want a business manager. Jesus believed that institutionalizing spirituality destroys it. Each person has to discover truth for themselves to their own inner journey.
I don't see anything wrong with your account
I don't think it's the platform. I believe the issue is at my end. Anyway not much I can do about this for now, so I just have to live with it.
So if reincarnation was a trap, the best remedy would be right living today
I agree "right living" is absolutely the way to go. I don't find that to be much of a challenge for me... not any longer. The first advice I would give anyone is stop lying. Don’t even tell white lies.
If the Pharisees had the (knowledge) key to escape and hid it, its evidence would still be present in their system somewhere, wouldn't it?
Possibly, but not in plain sight. And access to the Vatican Library is limited to accredited researchers. And US has something called Sensitive compartmented information (SCI). SCI is not a classification, it is high-level clearance.
Now, you're proposing a narrative where a later legalist church has learned tools of control from the Roman empire
IMO, the church didn't learn from the Roman empire, the church was built as an institution to serve the empire. This was one of Paul's "innovations". Paul was focused on organization and structure. Jesus and his followers were very egalitarian. They didn't believe in hierarchy and shared everything in common. They lived simply. They didn't build institutions. But Paul insists that you need hierarchy and organization and structure to spread the message effectively. You need bishops and deacons and churches and formal procedures. So he's building churches all around the Roman Empire. He's creating an organizational structure. He's establishing protocols. This is not spiritual teaching. This is institution building.
It's not literal anywhere that "approaching light" automatically equals "flesh trap"
Going back to NDEs and if you read carefully their stories, the first thing you see is a light, radiant, irresistible. It draws you closer. Loved ones appear smiling, calling your name. A warmth fills you, and for a moment, you are certain this is heaven, this is home. But this may not be a light, for not all that shines is light. IMO, it is very possible this tunnel of light is a structure, a construction, a luminous snare woven by the archons to recycle you back into the cycle of death and rebirth. The comforting voices may not be your ancestors at all, but projections, illusions crafted to keep you from questioning where you truly are. The Hypostasis of the Archons talks of rulers who bind humanity in forgetfulness. The Apocryphon of John describes how the Demiurge fashioned the soul's prison, surrounding it with layers of deception. The Pistis Sophia, hints at the perilous journey of the soul through realms of judgement and false lights. So, yeah I think it's literal.
So, why does the light appear so irresistible? Why do souls return so willingly? perhaps it's the genius of the illusion. It appeals to your deepest longing, the longing to be safe, to be loved, to belong and be reunited with source. What better bait than the faces of those you cherished in life? What stronger tether than the promise of reunion? So, maybe the first part of the illusion is seduction, the dazzling light, the false reunion, then the second part is entanglement. There is a parallel with what we can observe the TPTB and their actions in our world today. The archons are forces who question, judge and weigh the soul, not to guide it toward liberation, but to bind it more tightly to the cycle of matter. Have you ever heard the sentence "life review"? NSDs describe being shown their deeds, feeling their emotions replayed, and being told that they must learn more lessons. But who is conducting this review? the archons, who are the judges, which is something that is hidden. The Gnostics would say this judgement does not come from the true source, but from the counterfeit rulers of this world. Judgement, even when it feels like it comes from the soul itself, is still part of the illusion. By convincing the soul that it has failed, that it must return to correct its mistakes, the archons ensure the cycle of reincarnation never ends. This makes sense to me, that's exactly what I would do if I was a parasite, an archon. I would want to make sure the supply of energy never ends. I think in the movie Matrix machines use humans as batteries not because humans make a good power source, but because doing this allows the machines to avoid committing genocide, as would otherwise be required by their laws.
it appears the path you recommend is to Know certain rules in the hope of remembering them in a postdeath confrontation, which would imply that one's duty in this life is to constantly study postdeath rules
This is not exactly correct. But, I will elaborate on this later, in a different message.
When you're speaking of the character you call demiurge, could you please stick to names I agree apply to that character (such as Samael or satan or Saklas), since it doesn't matter to you what you call him but it does matter to me
The demiurge (Greek demiurgos) is the being who created the world in Gnosticism. So, when referring to Gnostics manuscripts & texts it's very hard to replace Demiurge with something else. I'll try using Satan wherever makes sense. Outside of the Gnostics texts I have no issue using a different name. How about Lucifer, the god worshipped by Freemasons? that according to many high level Freemasons themselves. “That which we must say to a crowd is – We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees – The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine. If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him? Yes, Lucifer is God" - Albert Pike 33° Freemason, Morals and Dogma page 321
I didn't block you. But, seems to me you are looking for someone to argue with. I'm not that person.
there is zero evidence God inspired the extraBiblical book
Listen guywholikesDjtof2024 I don't want to block you, but I feel like responding to your messages is a waste of my time. Sorry to say this, but this is how I feel.
We have believed Jesus and Paul ever since the New Testament was written
Do you know when the New Testament was written? and I don't mean the Koine Greek, I'm talking about the original manuscripts.
I don't get why people try to claim that reality is false
Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished and he will rule over all.". This is Plato's allegory of the cave. If you don't know it, go ahead and do a search... it's a wonderful story told by Plato. The prisoner who escapes the cave and sees the real world with sunlight? At first, it's painful. It's confusing. The light blinds him. But if he persists, eventually he sees the truth. And then he returns to the cave with knowledge and wisdom that the other prisoners don't have. So the spiritual path is painful. It involves confusion and struggle. But if you persist, you will see reality as it truly is.
Do you want to know how you will be saved? pay attention to what Jesus said: "If you bring it into being within you, (then) that which you have will save you. If you do not have it within you, (then) that which you do not have within you [will] kill you." - Gospel of Thomas (70)
Unusual to get more attention with the alt and then return under the older account
I would have continued with the alt, but I couldn't reply any longer. I tried DM, same thing... I couldn't submit any longer. Not surprising, I have been censored, blocked, banned, downvoted on every platform I have been on. And I don't recall once having said anything hateful, to incite violence, or insulting to anyone. It doesn't matter to me, I have already accepted the world I chose to live in. But they have no power over me, I'm sovereign.
we can proceed in any way you like
I think there is something we both are interested in. If the afterlife is a trap, then what happens to you when you die? And more importantly, how do you escape it?
I think if we can answer this, we would also know why we choose to be were born in the first place. I say choose, because I believe there is freedom of choice here. Last time I said it's complex, and it is. It has to be complex, because if too many souls remembered it, the prison itself would begin to crumble. By reading some of the manuscripts found at Nag Hammadi I found interesting how the Gnostics understood death, not as a doorway to freedom, but as the moment when the soul could be captured and recycled. This is the very mechanism of the trap and the hidden signs that reveal when you're being lured back into it. I'm reading testimonies of people who had near death experiences, similar to the ones who took psychedelics. They all talk about a bright light they see. Most will keep walking toward the light, unaware of who built it or why. But I question everything, in this life and I believe when I die. Perhaps the prison of the Demiurge is not confined to this world at all, but stretches even beyond death itself. A hall of mirrors tricking your soul into returning again and again, replaying life after life. What if death is not the end, not the beginning, but the greatest illusion of all? maybe these are the keys to escape the prison that has bound humanity since the very beginning. Long before our modern religions took shape, the ancient world was alive with whispers of hidden realms, rival gods, and secret knowledge, and among them, perhaps the Gnostics provided a warning unlike any other. Jesus said "The pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to.". I often thought about the meaning of this teaching. Now, I think I finally understood. A hall of mirrors tricking our soul into returning again and again, replaying life after life. What if death is not the end, not the beginning, but the greatest illusion of all?
In nearly every religion of the ancient world, whether the pagan cults of Rome or the rising Christian Church, death was portrayed as a passage into divine reward or punishment. But the Gnostics dared to say something far more unsettling, that death itself could be the snare. Other traditions carried echoes of this. In the Tibetan Book of the Dead, known as the Bardo Thodol and also known as the Chai Bardo, the soul is warned of dazzling lights and illusions that appear after death, designed to lure it back into rebirth Even the early Christian thinker, Origen, also known as Origen Adamantius, entertained the idea of pre-existence and cycles of embodiment, teachings later condemned as heresy. But why such eagerness to erase these teachings? Because fear of death is the strongest chain of all, and once a soul breaks it, it slips beyond control. A soul convinced it must return again and again to learn lessons is a soul unlikely to rebel. But a soul that remembers that it was never meant to be trapped, that it belongs to eternity, becomes dangerous. Dangerous not only to the rulers of this world, but to the Demiurge itself. I think the Gnostics understood this, that's why they saw themselves as exiles.
I have written a lot on this subject and it's getting late. It's a lot more to explore here, including the final test with the Demiurge itself. I'm just curious if you have any questions.
You implied that John and Jesus contradicted each other,
I think you're using the wrong word here "contradict". It's not what I'm saying. Jesus went way beyond the level of his teacher. He understood, and has been revealed to him, what John the Baptist didn't know.
I see. Are you and SR part of the same team?
Then you would know your conflict theory isn't correct.
You're making no sense. Do you just want to waste time?
Swamprangers
I can't find the context of this. Can you please elaborate.
Do you say things like your comment to everyone you meet?
I don't think so. But, it's possible I said "I don't think it's something you're willing to hear" before. So what?
What does SR stand for?
I'm pinging u/jamesbillison
Don't bother... that is my alt.
Read Revelation.
I have many times and also I have looked at different translations. Even the Aramaic Peshitta New Testament original before being translated into Greek.
Problems like?
You don't believe anything I say. What purpose would serve for me to detail the problems with this story? But, I do admit it's a nice story.
Exactly. Jesus also said "I have cast fire upon the world, and see, I am guarding it until it blazes.".
Jesus revealed the hidden portal to the kingdom because he knew that humanity would need this knowledge in the exact time we're living in right now. The dimensional barriers are thinning. The portal is becoming easier to see than it's been in millennia. Those who are ready, those who are chosen are beginning to perceive it everywhere.
I could give you an answer to this question, my opinion, but if you believe Jesus's death was the substitution/sacrifice for our sins, and salvation is by grace alone through faith in Jesus alone, as the Church teaches... then you will have a hard time relating to what I'm about to say. I believe Jesus was the prototype for a special mission. He wasn't a sacrifice to an angry god, Yahweh. He was a messenger sent into hostile territory to plant a virus of truth into the Matrix code. And some of us are the sleeper cells he left behind.
The chosen ones are those whose consciousness is already beginning to vibrate at that a higher frequency. Sometimes through trauma that shattered their ordinary perception. Sometimes through spiritual practice that raised their awareness. Sometimes through soul contracts made before birth, agreements to wake up in this lifetime and help others see the portal, too. You weren't chosen because you're superior. You were chosen because you volunteered. Before you incarnated, you agreed to be one of the ones who would see the portal, cross through it, and then help others find it. IMO, that's why we're here.
However, the moment you accept the mission and begin to raise your frequency, the matrix will notice. The simulation is designed to keep energy low, stable, and predictable. A state of homeostasis. When the spark inside of you starts to glow the system treats you like a virus, a foreign object that threatens the stability of the illusion. I'll call this the matrix immune response, but you could also call it agent Smith logic. The system will try to drag you back down.