The idols of the nations are silver and gold, the work of men’s hands
(media.conspiracies.win)
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That is the Virgin Mary holding the baby Jesus with a pair of angels. So basically a fancy nativity set.
I see no idols.
She literally has a crown, wears a long pure white / golden cloak, and is clearly put in the center of the scene, not Jesus.
Without her, without her "yes", without the grace of her immaculate conception ... there is no Jesus. She is the Ark of the New Covenant.
On the Cross, Jesus HIMSELF gives His mother to us.
"Honor thy Father and thy Mother"
This is what we are doing.
Revelation: A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.
Mary wears a crown.
The woman spoken of in Revelation 12:1-6 may be symbolic for Israel, with the twelve stars being symbolic for the twelve tribes of Israel. Alternatively (less likely I think), the woman may be the Church, with the twelve stars being symbolic for the twelve apostles.
Now, who is the great prostitute spoken of in Revelation 17? None other than the Roman Catholic Church!
Symbols in Revelation have multiple layers of meaning. The woman in Revelation is both Mary, and the Christian church, the New Isreal, as it were. But if you say she isn't Mary, then you have a very unique interpretation of Scripture, far, far from the mainstream, that you're welcome to.
I think you’re overstating the ‘mainstream’ position. A quick look at how non‑Roman Catholics interpret Revelation 12:1-6 shows that the woman is overwhelmingly understood broadly as God’s covenant people, not Mary.
One can look and find sources that don’t interpret her as Mary on at least one level, or that even emphasize that the woman in Revelation is the church and only secondarily Mary, which actually is the Catholic and Orthodox interpretation, which is the majority of Christians.
Holding contradicts being untouched. Flow (inception towards death) doesn't touch form (life)...flow allows form to touch one another.
Aka smothering in eternal embrace.
A baby cannot claim I AM (je suis; jesus). Others have to weaken the baby first with language (forked tongue) to tempt the claim over self.
An angel/angle implies two lines meeting at a point...nature implies one line dividing each one living within from inception towards point of death.
If God implies singularity; then the pairing of angels/angles isn't righteous.
Build by foreigners to keep natives at a distance aka worship but don't touch.
What if you see the representation (picture) of a representation (statue) of a representation (scripture) of what your eyes cannot see (Mary + Jesus)?
Just like the idols themselves, you have eyes but you can't see! As it is written, everyone who trusts in idols will be like them.
Iconoclast
And I hope that doesn't break rule #1 to call you that.
That's completely fine. I do not consider that to be a derogatory term, but rather a positive term based on the definition.
As long as you are fine with being a heretic, from a condemned heresy that was basic imported from Islam, that is fine by me.
Don’t try to go Cromwell on my crucifix and Mary statue, then we’ll come to blows.
Do you have photos of your beloved ones and/or your ancestros at home? Are they all as shitty as possible to not be accounted as idols? Did you get rid of a gold grand-grandmother pendant with grand-grandfather photo in it, because it is obviously an idolatry?
Or may be you belong to some totalitarian sect like wahhabis where any images of people are prohibited?
What about gold menorahs and other preсious rithual things form Judaism?
The second commandment is two-fold: (1) “You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: (2) you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, ...”
My family photos are not a depiction of any sort of deity, nor do I bow down to them or serve them. Meanwhile:
– Pope Francis kisses an idol of "Jesus"
– Pope Francis bows before an idol of "Mary"
– Roman Catholics bowing to idols
“… we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by art and design of man. The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent,” (Acts 17:29-30)
Every man have a part of deity in his soul, unless he already handed over his soul to Satan. Did, you just stated that your family are soulless? Are your family Jewish?
Same with staues and icons. Nobody in christianity, even popes, bow or serve them. They bow and serve real persons they depict.
And you didn't give any direct answer about actual and open idolatry in Judaism. Jews literally bow and worship things, like that wailing wall that in the best case represent just a building, not even a person.
In Orthodox Christianity once was an unsuccesfull attempt to implement a sect based on denying icons named "iconoclasts". It is accounted as a Jewish herecy, from the beginning, because sect was created and sustained for some time by Jews. Also, during 1917 revolution it was of course Jews who rushed to destroy any icons they found.
Iconoclasm is a purely Jewish anti-Christian narrative.
Satan can't sustain even an image of God and Saints, that is why kikes, as satan's spawn constantly use all possible means to destroy or mock them.
Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. They have mouths, but they don’t speak. They have eyes, but they don’t see. They have ears, but they don’t hear. They have noses, but they don’t smell. They have hands, but they don’t feel. They have feet, but they don’t walk, neither do they speak through their throat. Those who make them will be like them; yes, everyone who trusts in them. (Psalms 115:4-8 WEBPB)
The idols of the nations are silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. They have mouths, but they can’t speak. They have eyes, but they can’t see. They have ears, but they can’t hear, neither is there any breath in their mouths. Those who make them will be like them, yes, everyone who trusts in them. (Psalms 135:15-18 WEBPB)
“You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those who hate me, and showing loving kindness to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:3-6 WEBPB)
“What value does the engraved image have, that its maker has engraved it; the molten image, even the teacher of lies, that he who fashions its form trusts in it, to make mute idols? Woe to him who says to the wood, ‘Awake!’ or to the mute stone, ‘Arise!’ Shall this teach? Behold, it is overlaid with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all within it. But the LORD is in his holy temple. Let all the earth be silent before him!” (Habakkuk 2:18-20 WEBPB)
Now the deeds of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practise such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom. (Galatians 5:19-21 WEBPB)
Or don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Don’t be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor extortionists, will inherit God’s Kingdom. Some of you were such, but you were washed. You were sanctified. You were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11 WEBPB)
The rest of mankind, who were not killed with these plagues, didn’t repent of the works of their hands, that they wouldn’t worship demons, and the idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood, which can’t see, hear, or walk. They didn’t repent of their murders, their sorceries, their sexual immorality, or their thefts. (Revelation 9:20-21 WEBPB)
Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by art and design of man. The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent, because he has appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom he has ordained; of which he has given assurance to all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.” (Acts 17:29-31 WEBPB)
But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such to be his worshippers. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:23-24 WEBPB)
Now they shall construct an [a]ark of acacia wood [b]two and a half cubits [c]long, one and a half cubits [d]wide, and one and a half cubits [e]high. 11 You shall overlay it with pure gold, inside and out you shall overlay it, and you shall make a gold molding [f]around it. 12 You shall also cast four gold rings for it and [g]fasten them on its four feet; two rings shall be on one side of it, and two rings on the other side of it. 13 And you shall make poles of acacia wood and overlay them with gold. 14 You shall put the poles into the rings on the sides of the ark, to carry the ark with them. 15 The poles shall [h]remain in the rings of the ark; they shall not be removed from it. 16 You shall put into the ark the testimony which I shall give you.
17 “And you shall make [i]an atoning cover of pure gold, [j]two and a half cubits [k]long and one and a half cubits [l]wide. 18 You shall make two cherubim of gold; make them of hammered work [m]at the two ends of the atoning cover. 19 Make one cherub [n]at one end and one cherub [o]at the other end; you shall make the cherubim of one piece [p]with the atoning cover at its two ends. 20 And the cherubim shall have their wings spread upward, covering the atoning cover with their wings and [q]facing one another; the faces of the cherubim are to be turned toward the atoning cover. 21 Then you shall put the atoning cover [r]on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the testimony which I will give to you. 22 There I will meet with you; and from above the atoning cover, from between the two cherubim which are upon the ark of the testimony, I will speak to you about [s]every commandment that I will give you for the sons of Israel.
Thank you. Their "idol worship" arguments fall flat when presented with this.
God specifically commanded Moses to make cherubim in His tabernacle as a copy of the way it is in heaven (Exodus 25:18-22; Hebrews 8:5; Ezekiel 10; 11; Psalm 99:1; Isaiah 37:16). Similarly to the Tabernacle, David told Solomon he had received plans for the temple from God “by the Spirit” (1 Chronicles 28:12) and “in writing from the LORD’s hand” (1 Chronicles 28:19). As a result, Solomon also carved cherubim in the walls of the first temple and made two cherubim in the Most Holy Place (2 Chronicles 3:7, 10-14). Similarly, God specifically commanded Moses to make a bronze serpent (Numbers 21:8), but this was later destroyed after the people were idolising it (2 Kings 18:4). These objects and images were never intended to be “venerated”, or worshipped; they were made solely in obedience to God’s command for His specific purposes.
Meanwhile, today’s “icons” (or images) and idols are often prayed to, kissed, have incense burnt to them, and are adored. Furthermore, God’s second commandment explicitly forbids making images and idols for the purpose of bowing down to or serving them (Exodus 20:4-5). The Bible forbids making images and idols for worship, as substitutes for God, or as objects of devotion, and the serving of such images, all of which is idolatry. Common practices like praying to dead saints (even though Scripture teaches there is only one mediator, Christ Jesus—1 Timothy 2:5; and that the dead know nothing—Ecclesiastes 9:5), wearing or, for example, carrying or placing in your car or house religious objects such as icons or crosses for protection or special power, using items like rosary beads as prayer aids, or appealing to Mary (who has died) to intercede in place of Jesus, are all violations of God’s word in the Bible, idolatry, and in some cases necromancy.
The cherubim in the tabernacle and temple, and even the bronze serpent, were made by God’s command for specific purposes, not as objects or images of worship. When people later gave a name and burned incense to the bronze serpent, it became idolatrous, and righteous King Hezekiah destroyed it (2 Kings 18:4). This shows that even something God commanded to be made can become an idol if people misuse it.
As for artistic depictions of Jesus, Scripture nowhere commands, commends, or even shows the slightest example of creating images of God or Christ for “veneration”. In fact, it specifically warns against such practices numerous times; see, for example, John 4:23-24; Acts 17:29-31; Habakkuk 2:18-20. Jesus is “the image of the invisible God” (Colossians 1:15), not a painted, carved, or sculpted likeness based on man’s imagination. He is the living God, before all things, and in Him all things are held together (Colossians 1:17). Furthermore, the common portrayal of Jesus with long hair is misleading and dishonouring, as Scripture clearly states that it is a disgrace for a man to have long hair (1 Corinthians 11:14). Jesus, in His heavenly, glorified form, is depicted with hair “like pure wool” in Daniel 7:9 (refer also to Revelation 1:14), not with long, flowing, feminine hair. Furthermore, how can we verify the accuracy of these depictions of His supposed earthly form, and therefore, how can such images avoid violating the command to worship God in spirit and truth (refer to John 4:23-24)?
Therefore, the cherubim and the bronze serpent were obediently made according to God’s command for His purposes, not as objects or images of worship to be bowed down to, prayed to, and served. But making and worshipping images and idols, as is common practice today, is fundamentally different and violates God’s command against idolatry.
Joshua 7:6
Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell facedown to the ground before the ark of the LORD, remaining there till evening. The elders of Israel did the same, and sprinkled dust on their heads.
The Scripture is clear about what the Ark was. It was not an object of worship. It was a symbol of God’s presence, the place where God chose to speak, and the covenantal testimony of His relationship with Israel.
Exactly, looking at the image remind us of what the image represents.