There is no "true Church" other than the personal ministry of Jesus Christ himself; no other path. All men are fallible and so all the works of men are corrupt.
No one believed this prior to Luther 15c. after Christ. Anyone who knows basic Church history can't be a Protestant.
If you read the bible as though God is a fallible human who makes mistakes (or even that exists within space and time), and try to judge Him, you will find Him wanting because he doesn't do and say what you would do and say. You implicitely place yourself above God, hence atheism.
Concentrate. The argument is that the Bible doesn't interpret itself - no text does. The question is what is the authority that holds the correct interpretation. The Pope, the Church - the group of "fallible men" that produced and compiled and kept unchanged the infallible Bible canon you appeal to - or individual faliable people (like you) who tend to disagree on what the text means because they come to it with their own theoretical baggage and assumptions. Only one of those will bring you to correct interpretation.
So? Appeal to (fallible) authority? I like to call this The Catholic Fallacy.
The question is what is the authority that holds the correct interpretation.
No earthly authority holds the correct interpretation. There is one Truth that none of us are privy to; all we can do is seek it. By seeking with the simple, and indisputable, assumption that God is Good, the bible can set you on the right path.
The Pope, the Church - the group of "fallible men" that produced and compiled and kept unchanged the infallible Bible canon you appeal to
The Eastern Church would like a word...
Seriously, I don't think the bible is infallible either, being recorded and propagated by men. I'm not literalist by any means. The bible, to me, is a map that can set you in motion. It's still up to you to take the journey, and maybe go astray and find your way back, but the only infallible thing that we know of is God Himself and his creations. The only way to Truth is by putting yourself in alignment with God; no amount to interpretation will help you if you don't do that.
people (like you) who tend to disagree on what the text means because they come to it with their own theoretical baggage and assumptions
How about people who purposefully obfuscate the text so that they can claim the authority of God? Do they not have their own "baggage"? Do they not constantly make concessions to earthly powers to maintain their positions?
If I'm wrong (and, ultimately, I am) only I reap the consequences. I'm not misleading others for my own aggrandizement
So? Appeal to (fallible) authority? I like to call this The Catholic Fallacy.
So where was the Church hiding in the meantime?
No earthly authority holds the correct interpretation. There is one Truth that none of us are privy to; all we can do is seek it. By seeking with the simple, and indisputable, assumption that God is Good, the bible can set you on the right path.
Who of the millions of protestants reading the Bible is on the right path and holds the correct doctrines and how do you determine that if each person is their personal authority on interpretation.
Seriously, I don't think the bible is infallible either, being recorded and propagated by men. I'm not literalist by any means. The bible, to me, is a map that can set you in motion. It's still up to you to take the journey, and maybe go astray and find your way back, but the only infallible thing that we know of is God Himself and his creations. The only way to Truth is by putting yourself in alignment with God; no amount to interpretation will help you if you don't do that.
So you're not even Sola Scripture guy? This is actually the muslim line of argumentation. What's the criteria that you use to discern which parts of the Bible are true? How do you know you're aligned with God and not in delusion? Based on feelz?
How about people who purposefully obfuscate the text so that they can claim the authority of God? Do they not have their own "baggage"? Do they not constantly make concessions to earthly powers to maintain their positions?
That's a tu quoque. Even if they do that doesn't help your case.
If I'm wrong (and, ultimately, I am) only I reap the consequences. I'm not misleading others for my own aggrandizement
Not exactly. If you spread false teachings publicly and misleading others it's not just about you, regardless of your intentions which I believe are good.
No one believed this prior to Luther 15c. after Christ. Anyone who knows basic Church history can't be a Protestant.
Concentrate. The argument is that the Bible doesn't interpret itself - no text does. The question is what is the authority that holds the correct interpretation. The Pope, the Church - the group of "fallible men" that produced and compiled and kept unchanged the infallible Bible canon you appeal to - or individual faliable people (like you) who tend to disagree on what the text means because they come to it with their own theoretical baggage and assumptions. Only one of those will bring you to correct interpretation.
So? Appeal to (fallible) authority? I like to call this The Catholic Fallacy.
No earthly authority holds the correct interpretation. There is one Truth that none of us are privy to; all we can do is seek it. By seeking with the simple, and indisputable, assumption that God is Good, the bible can set you on the right path.
The Eastern Church would like a word...
Seriously, I don't think the bible is infallible either, being recorded and propagated by men. I'm not literalist by any means. The bible, to me, is a map that can set you in motion. It's still up to you to take the journey, and maybe go astray and find your way back, but the only infallible thing that we know of is God Himself and his creations. The only way to Truth is by putting yourself in alignment with God; no amount to interpretation will help you if you don't do that.
How about people who purposefully obfuscate the text so that they can claim the authority of God? Do they not have their own "baggage"? Do they not constantly make concessions to earthly powers to maintain their positions?
If I'm wrong (and, ultimately, I am) only I reap the consequences. I'm not misleading others for my own aggrandizement
So where was the Church hiding in the meantime?
Who of the millions of protestants reading the Bible is on the right path and holds the correct doctrines and how do you determine that if each person is their personal authority on interpretation.
So you're not even Sola Scripture guy? This is actually the muslim line of argumentation. What's the criteria that you use to discern which parts of the Bible are true? How do you know you're aligned with God and not in delusion? Based on feelz?
That's a tu quoque. Even if they do that doesn't help your case.
Not exactly. If you spread false teachings publicly and misleading others it's not just about you, regardless of your intentions which I believe are good.