Win / Conspiracies
Conspiracies
Communities Topics Log In Sign Up
Sign In
Hot
All Posts
Settings
All
Profile
Saved
Upvoted
Hidden
Messages

Your Communities

General
AskWin
Funny
Technology
Animals
Sports
Gaming
DIY
Health
Positive
Privacy
News
Changelogs

More Communities

frenworld
OhTwitter
MillionDollarExtreme
NoNewNormal
Ladies
Conspiracies
GreatAwakening
IP2Always
GameDev
ParallelSociety
Privacy Policy
Terms of Service
Content Policy
DEFAULT COMMUNITIES • All General AskWin Funny Technology Animals Sports Gaming DIY Health Positive Privacy
Conspiracies Conspiracy Theories & Facts
hot new rising top

Sign In or Create an Account

0
The Bible vs Eastern Orthodoxy (www.youtube.com)
posted 19 days ago by TurnToGodNow 19 days ago by TurnToGodNow +4 / -4
53 comments share
53 comments share save hide report block hide replies
You're viewing a single comment thread. View all comments, or full comment thread.
Comments (53)
sorted by:
▲ 2 ▼
– SmithW1984 2 points 18 days ago +2 / -0

They do claim to have assurance given directly by God, and I'm not aware of a Church teaching that assurance is impossible, only that it's so rare that Protestant broad proclamation of assurance is irresponsible. But when the Lord says "Thy faith hath saved thee" (Luke 7:50, 18:42) I don't think he was limiting that to the past, but speaking of the big picture.

In the scriptural examples it is God in person who informs people that they are saved. Of course God has foreknowledge and He can make that pronunciation. It is completely unjustified for Protestants to believe they have assurance given directly by God. Did they talk to Him personally? What they have is Scripture which they quote-mine and misinterpret disregarding the living tradition (the Church) which produced and kept it.

[I try to be careful with quotes, and, since Athanasius didn't contend with Shirley MacLaine but we do, I note that he said, "Autos gar enenthropesen, hina hemeis theopoiethomen" (Incarnation 54.3). Nowadays I might translate that "be defied" rather than "become god", in the sense the Bible calls "partake of divine nature". Otherwise Americans get bad ideas about theosis.]

Yes, many people fall for word-concept fallacies and could think the word "god" always refers to God the Father/Trinity. Theosis is deification by participation in the divine energies. We can't participate in the divine essence which is unknowable. We don't become God or one with God's essence (like hindus believe), we become godlike (by becoming saints and restoring our likeness that was lost after the fall).

You make good points and I can't address them all rn. Jay Dyer explains the Orthodox position really well. Look up his videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2O58rX0K5o (on salvation)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXQQSA9U3xs (on faith alone justification being based on nominalism)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_XS9xp7kiI (sola fide critique)

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– SwampRangers 1 point 18 days ago +1 / -0

Good, we can leave it there for now. As my own link of Robert Arakaki shows, I'm not convinced the Orthodox and Protestant opinions are opposed (call me ecumenical), but I am bookmarking Jay Dyer for the Orthodox and will continue looking into it.

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ 2 ▼
– SmithW1984 2 points 18 days ago +2 / -0

I'm glad. Jay is obviously biased but he has been an evangelical, a calvinist and a trad cath before arriving at eastern orthodoxy so he has first-hand knowledge of what the different doctrines are.

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ 2 ▼
– SmithW1984 2 points 17 days ago +2 / -0

Check out his video on Sola Scriptura too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_AjgIrk9-o&t=78s

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ 1 ▼
– SwampRangers 1 point 17 days ago +1 / -0

Skimmed it but found it too simplified. Seems like we agree on the history, and for the norms the Orthodox only have the plus that they weren't the ones who split. The problem is that in theory any individual or group can set new norms and they have done this, even in the first millennium among those who are still professing Christian churches today, because they believed it was conscientiously incumbent to split. Both sides are acting out of good conscience, and in such cases God seems to say the division is from him.

Consider the history of denominations and see whether the whole argument over who is the root isn't best resolved by Jesus's statement that he is the root and we are (all) the branches.

More important, I'd ask if in turn you could skim R. C. Sproul and see if my summary of him has some error.

permalink parent save report block reply
▲ 2 ▼
– SmithW1984 2 points 16 days ago +2 / -0

I know about branch theory. It contradicts the Nicaean creed (one holy catholic and apostolic Church). The Church is Christ's body here on Earth - there can be no divisions or parts within the body. This is a heresy condemned at Chalcedon which is the reason why the Orthodox Church rejects the Catholic's Sacred Heart devotion.

The problem is that in theory any individual or group can set new norms and they have done this, even in the first millennium among those who are still professing Christian churches today

You're confusing the synodal structure of the apostolic Church (as established in Acts and the Epistles) and oikonomia (canon law under the jurisdiction of the local bishop) with different sects falling away from communion with the Church due to difference in dogma and doctrine. The first major split in the Church was due to Nestorianism and that led to the falling away of the Oriental Church after Chalcedon. The setting of new norms is economic only. The decisions made at the ecumenical councils are infallible and definitive of what the orthodox faith is - deviation from this means you're no longer in the Church (your branch has been cut off).

Here's Jay on branch theory: https://youtu.be/qXx6DHU0HmI?t=377

permalink parent save report block reply
... continue reading thread?

GIFs

Conspiracies Wiki & Links

Conspiracies Book List

External Digital Book Libraries

Mod Logs

Honor Roll

Conspiracies.win: This is a forum for free thinking and for discussing issues which have captured your imagination. Please respect other views and opinions, and keep an open mind. Our goal is to create a fairer and more transparent world for a better future.

Community Rules: <click this link for a detailed explanation of the rules

Rule 1: Be respectful. Attack the argument, not the person.

Rule 2: Don't abuse the report function.

Rule 3: No excessive, unnecessary and/or bullying "meta" posts.

To prevent SPAM, posts from accounts younger than 4 days old, and/or with <50 points, wont appear in the feed until approved by a mod.

Disclaimer: Submissions/comments of exceptionally low quality, trolling, stalking, spam, and those submissions/comments determined to be intentionally misleading, calls to violence and/or abuse of other users here, may all be removed at moderator's discretion.

Moderators

  • Doggos
  • axolotl_peyotl
  • trinadin
  • PutinLovesCats
  • clemaneuverers
  • C
Message the Moderators

Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

2025.03.01 - nxltw (status)

Copyright © 2024.

Terms of Service | Privacy Policy