Do you want a make a pool? Or vote in some way for the most important news of the week?
Following Axeotl_Peotl's example, we can go for the most upvoted comment in here as the major topic that should be discussed this week. Most upvotes, or longest discussion WINS.
We can do that every week, so we can try to make this into a community. Otherwise, everyone is just sharing their views - old, new, wrong, right, etc... There is no community work being done in reality.
I know we agree on the majority of the conspiracies, but on some we disagree...
If we make a DISCUSSION posts about a certain topic and we actually manage to finalize it, then we can just copy the link to any new user that has any questions about this topic. I see this as a win for everyone of us. Otherwise, we just share known materials to veterans, who can help with a lot of information.
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How can we activate the veterans in conspiracy research to be more active and share their information with newcomers?
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How can we have a useful debate that actually reaches a useful and truthful conclusion?
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How can we make this community more proactive than it already is?
We should unite our efforts to make a difference, otherwise it's every man for himself... And how has that worked in the past?
It's clear that the enemy wants to divide us, so it might be a good idea to unite in the ideas that we agree on. It seems like a good idea to at least try. I can definitely say that it worked when Axeotl_Peotl was making the pools in the past about the most important conspiracy of the week.
Rules:
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Attack the argument, not the person.
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Add more information to the topic, if you can.
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Expose shills, who have no rational reason to go against any topic.
If you see a positive use for this, please share any topics that you think are relevant. A Charlie Kirk discussion, or a united thread would be very useful, but of course any suggestions would be appreciated, just say what comes to your mind as an important conspiracy topic.
We had already great discussions in here on the Lahaina fires and other topics, where users were compiling big posts that clearly showed the conclusion of a combined research (sorry, if I miss your specific example, I just forget things).
That would be an extremely useful database. If we can compile all the information in one post, someone can share it, someone can make a documentary about it, someone can research for more details...
We all have different qualities that can be useful to expose the truth to others. It is better to share them then just use them on our own. What has been achieved so far by a single individual? But if we combine our resources, we might have a real chance to wake a lot of people with extensive research and firm message that would help them conclude that the mass media is lying.
I'm sorry that I have to be the person to restart this topic, but I haven't seen anything similar in some time in here. (I don't review this forum daily, so if you've done that and I've missed it - I'm sorry). But if we decide on a day that is specifically for these discussions, we might have a real breakthrough using the brains of this community.
If you think that's a good idea - comment your best conspiracy topic.
If you think that I shouldn't start this - make a DISCUSSION post about your best conspiracy topic.
Either way, I hope you can share knowledge between yourselves in a united manner. That would certainly show the greatest result, imo.
Well .... there are many ways to go with this.
I'd love to write a main post on black holes this week but it might be discussion-stifling because I tend to go high-effort. That's different from starting a post on a generic topic because I have a lot of opinions coming to the table by suggesting the topic. Plus I can still get called "christiantard trump troll" regardless of its applicability, and that leads to a need for the sidebar rule "respect other views".
I'd love to suggest conspiracy topics weekly for "round table" but I'd hope that it's because there's critical mass to get an actual forward-moving discussion. Weekly topics of varying quality would lead to risks of monopolization (as above), of general disinterest leading to attrition, and of dilution (sliding and echo chamber).
This is also a situation where I'd consider moderating if the community would have me, because there isn't much burden there and I wouldn't promise anything other than objectivity.
I have a few communities, but didn't create one for conspiracies specifically because of this one. My taking the names c/FlatEarth, c/Nazi, and c/Holocaust has not resulted in much. Right now the new c/4thHorsemanNews by u/Tetartos_Ippeas is having a great debut for conspiracies and we could cross-pollinate in either direction.
Looking at it in general, it seems that a combination of renewal of c/Conspiracies along with a continuing boost to c/4thHorsemanNews would be useful if there are enough people and if they don't have axes to grind. Conspiracy theorists recognize that any group of ten or more is always infiltrated by the cabal anyway, so we must work around that. Collaboration is good but I would have no expectation that we would necessarily have instant teaching-learning sessions because there are so many other ways people interact. That's why I limit myself to certain paths, (1) flip answers that I don't have to defend, (2) detailed answers for my own and the lurkers' sakes without any requirement that anyone listen, and (3) requests for commitment to a shared goal (such as "God") so that the goal itself can be held up later as a witness if the discussion goes awry. If someone wants to be argumentative it's not my job or interest to join debate, but I do when I can use a path like one of those. If there are enough people who work like that then maybe "collaboration" becomes community.
I'll write something brief at Meta to see where it goes.
We carry that burden wherever we go... Do you really care?
We will get insulted 100%.
Your high effort will be appreciated by other people, who put high effort. If the low-effort people insult you, do you actually care? Because you shouldn't.
You should never fear speaking your own mind. If that's against someone's rules, then you should ask yourself: Would you mute yourself, so other feel comfortable? But one day muting yourself will eat you up...
Two possibilities:
or
So how can being mute help in any case?
Not really. You're asking for the popular vote. How can the popular vote be against the community?
I previously lost all "weekly round tables" discussions because other news were current, while mine were old. I never blamed the community when my topic wasn't discussed. Rather I realized that there's a time for it, and it's after the most recent topics that developed currently have been discussed.
We should speak more and more on many topics. The enemy wants us silent, and that's another reason why we should speak louder and louder!
"This is also a situation where I'd consider moderating if the community would have me, because there isn't much burden there and I wouldn't promise anything other than objectivity."
Anyone here up to a vote? We need a moderator and u/SwampRangers offers his help. We have been without posts that unite our thinking for very long... We need a moderator urgently! Please cast your vote! It's ok if it is for yourself even.
You say you made 3 but you give up on your ego and promote a 4th one - not done by you... Respect for that! Honestly!
I will visit them all, we need to expand! Hope others visit them too!
You see collaboration and you work for it. I cast my vote for you as moderator of c/Conspiracies!
To me, you have proven that you left your ego behind and you want to accomplish the goal of the community. That does come with challenges from shills that would want to break you, but I know you're better than me, so I cast my vote firmly towards a person that is able to defend his position and leave his ego - you!
You didn't have to prove your worth, but you did it anyway, for the best of this community. I really hope you can help us forward!
I hope we can vote for a moderator from this point on, so we can finalize it in a week. Anyone can cast their own votes. It's fine, if you vote for yourself even.
It has one advantage, namely priority on saying and doing more important things (than e.g. black holes).
You ask that at c/Conspiracies? Henry Robert was smart but has been gamed six ways from Sunday.
Speaking very specifically of that, math has proven that communities cannot make meaningful decisions with more than two options. I'd suggest we first start with status quo (Wild West, no active mods) vs. change (by default, petition for a moderator). During that discussion, consensus may well develop on a list of names without a vote, but a second vote on particular names might help frame consensus. But votes in general are ... sus.
I appreciate your kind words, and affirm your desire to light a fire under the community; but I'm losing track of how many people have suggested themselves for mod (and how many in jest), and part of the rejuvenation will almost certainly involve a very important related community question, namely acceptance or rejection or agnosticism toward collectivism (to speak in code). If my code is unclear, check c/Conspiracies/new to see if there's a majority theme that keeps recurring here that might not be at all aligned with c/Conspiracies/top?sort=all and get back to me.
Compared to what? There are many discussions currently for this day alone. If you think your topic deserves a better insight - go post it. There are some posts that hold no real value currently, so you're definitely not doing anyone any good by not discussing it... That was my point - if you want something discussed - open a discussion about this.
But if I misunderstood your point, what do you prioritize currently that blocks a discussion about black holes, as you want those answers? I think we can focus on priorities while we also discuss non-priority matters, that's my view.
I don't know about Henry Robert... In the little info from wiki he wrote some manual about his own poor performance, and the discussion rose to a conflict... If that's what you meant, then you're probably focusing on the angry users, who spew nothing but insults...
As a mod, you will be able to mute them. That's the solution.
If they don't know how to reply, then you set the tone and lead by example. And if someone is making it into a conflict - give him a strike and a message to remind him of a potentially normal answer that he might've given, contrasting to the current insult-fest that was provided.
I can write more, but I might be wrong about this Henry Robert example you gave and my 2-minute research might be all wrong...
Please give me more information on this topic, so I can understand it and write an appropriate reply.
You meant "history", not "math". I'm kinda touchy on the subject of math but I know what you meant.
Even so, should we change our own ways to accomodate the beasts? Or should the beasts accomodate to us? For me, there is no question that we must set the bar, and whoever goes over it, that's the people we need.
If some users can't deal with a simple vote, then what are they even worth?
I'm not sure I understand you perfectly here... I don't see how votes are "sus"... We're not the government... We won't abuse the voting system... Or do I misunderstand you completely?
I'm sorry, I tried what you said, but I couldn't figure it out. "Acceptance, or rejection, or agnosticism toward collectivism" is not our problem, in my opinion. We can crush those topics through a debate. And a mod should be impartial to those topics, just making sure that a respectful discussion exists and it's following the topic.
Sorry, if I didn't understand you... I couldn't crack the code... You can write a personal message to me, if you fear something in open communication like that... I checked everything you said, but I don't connect that to any belief or agnosticism. Personally, I believe in Jesus, but I would never mute someone for talking against him, rather I would demolish him with facts. That's my opinion, if I understand you correctly, and I'm not sure I do. Please write me a message, or personal message, without a code, so the dumbess that I am could get it clearly. Sorry, I know it's frustrating to send a message and the other one to never understand it, but it's frustrating to me as well to read something and not get it. I hope you understand.
I primarily mean real life, plus whatever things I do choose to take time to comment on in my history. I put out a lot about black holes in comments last week and will do so again, maybe in post(s), but logistics exist.
Henry Robert is famous because Robert's Rules are the standard for how groups of people decide matters with relative fairness. It's based on Parliament and is used with slight changes by Congress. The point is any version of it can be and has been gamed. So we might have a surface consensus achieved by declaration of deliberative results, but it's only as good as its circumspection, and in Conspiracies we don't begin by taking any view for granted. Surface consensus is fine in most cases, and might work here, but the discussions are already demonstrating anarchy coding and less than serious attempts at consensus deliberation.
My mod style and its detractors are well-known. I wouldn't jump into a community to change its existing style, and unfortunately this one now has lots of anarchic style well established. So it's essential that those users who remember what it's been and want to keep that under new moderation are able to demonstrate that to the whole group of contributors, which is usually done by rough consensus even if Robert is totally ignored. And in the American Revolution decisive action by 3% can drive the rest and overcome forum-sliding and solipsism that manifest in larger percentages; but they did it by establishing consensus in pubs and churches.
The new mod team would here have great risk of censoring viewpoints while attempting only to regulate disruptive behavior. The rules are briefly (0) platform rules, (1) respect, (2) no tool abuse, (3) no sliding. (Note to new mod: Those need to be rightly reflected in options available when someone reports, a very easy fix.) [Add: the sidebar "disclaimer" added (4) quality, (5) no "trolling", (6) no stalking, (7) no spam, (8) honesty, (9) no violence; looks like the disclaimer, which I missed, is the source of the justification for most actions.] We could squeeze a lot of speech and logic regulation into "respect" but it would probably need elaboration before long; and if there's no rule about NSFW content it might be asked about before long too. I think that longer rules make it easier for moderation to be circumspect and transparent, but I wouldn't want to change them without input from the past mod logs and from the current community. This week several people have complained about the behavior of one Communities contributor or another, often suggesting moderation; many of these cases press that risk of censorship and, in a free-speech forum, also have the risk of ongoing meta deliberation that detracts from the work of Theorizing.
I did mean math. Arrow's impossibility theorem says, if there are at least three alternatives for voting, then there is no social welfare function satisfying all of three proposed conditions of rational choice, and was anticipated by Condorcet. History shows its application to politics; but that basically means that, anytime a self-structuring community arises with high truth-seeking focus, there are easy, asymmetrical ways to shove it off its focus, and so a critical mass of focus renewal is important for longterm stability. If people stay focused on truth then consensus is easy; conversely, in a mixed, open-contribution society, staying focused only arises by grace and is preserved by voluntary self-regulation, which is not easy. Voting is sus, well, everywhere, and in this country since its founding; we accept the numbers but they don't mean much, and many recognize that rough consensus is stronger than impassive manipulated vote totals.
So, one math application is, if we are beasts and humans, how do we as anons work out how to exclude the beasts? Mathematically, it's a giant game of Amogus and greater than 1/3 ratio of "beasts" can win the game. That requires strategy and not everyone brings strategy to the table (but the "beasts" can be counted on to be doing so).
If you didn't follow about collectivism, it'll become obvious in due time, it doesn't need to clutter up the meta threads. And I'm not trying to be oblique but to prioritize topics. More important is your hope of "crush these topics through a debate". It's great to have high hopes for deliberation to result in peace. You are here because you resolved not to underestimate the enemy, though? I might meme: "You hope because deliberation is good, I hope because deliberation cannot ultimately be effectively used for evil, we are not the same." I absolutely affirm the idea that the Truth (which I believe to be Christianity as God-revealed) will conquer; but we are in a place among many who have many skepticisms about Truth, and we benefit by that. The uniting banner of Conspiracy Theorists is not known to be Christianity (it might be on Mars Hill), and it can be Truth ("out there") but that needs to be commonly conceived and not just "Truthy".
The redemption of a community from anarchy to order is a noble and involved quest!