Why has this site seen a huge turn towards Christian shit? It smells waaay off. Like, Russel Brand and all these other influencers turn Christian and this forum becomes overrun with worshippers of the Lord God of Israel via the Jesus psy op.
Why have TPTB decided to shove Christianity down everyones throats and flood boards with Christian bots etc?
Are they trying to strengthen their grip over us spiritually by reinforcing their original deception or what?
Hi, I'm not sure how to proceed but I hope to keep talking, I'm thinking we could go back and forth on scripture all day, I think you're pretty smart and I'm glad you've informed yourself to a point, I'm still learning to do this also with God stuff and everything really, though I have a different point then you at this time.
Forgive me if I'm stepping over boundaries now, I am thinking you not only don't believe Jesus is real but also if He is real then you don't want anything to do with Him. I think this is all a giant misunderstanding and I'd like to learn more with you about the nature of God, if you're willing.
We can even step outside scripture (special revelation) and go to the observable universe (general revelation) and what that means for observers like us.
You're not stepping over any boundaries at all. You are correct in what you think. I don't believe Jesus was real, I believe he was a trick rustled up by Jews - a midrash from their scriptures to be sold to the Gentiles (as he was) in order that they would come to worship the god of the jews, which is what happened. By force and by persuasion. And all of our own gods and ways of life were prohibited by the Jews using the husk of the Roman Empire to enforce it - an Empire which became the holy Roman see and the seat of power of the Jewish Messiah, fulfilling Psalm 110. But bear in mind that Rome, for Jesus and the Jews, is the 'midst of thine enemies' from which he will rule. Not to mention all those dead bodies to come...
And if Jesus was real, then he's still a vile character who has set out to deceive not only the gentiles but even his fellow Jews. His main target however is us gentiles who he wishes to bring to utter destruction.
I'd not be keen to move on if that's ok as you still have that challenge pending...
History proves Jesus was real, much to the chagrin of Jews.
Your expressed thinking is entirely backwards here. There is also much to be learned about the development of the Bible itself that speaks to these facts ...
I think we're going to have to start at the beginning, that is how I got to my understanding of these things that you question, they are really good questions.
I think the universe is intelligently designed. I think nature proves that.
I believe God when He says He is the Creator in Genesis and I also believe in original sin and fallen human nature.
God communicated with His creation and gave us His ways and commands, this is how we learn His personal nature and not just general natural design.
Before going to Deut 7 you have to have an understanding of Deut 6 and having that understanding your issues with the verses in Samuel, Isaiah, Micah, Psalms, Mark and wherever else, can be fleshed out and I'm happy to do that with you, I'm just not sure the answers I have matter to you at this time as a point of spiritual growth and not just a game. I personally love games and searching scripture for understanding is one of my favorite things but I'm not here right now just to amuse myself.
I would like to know where you are coming from in your faith and worldview. I have started this reply with mine and I do think we should start at the beginning.
What do you believe about who we are, where we come from and why?
If you believe in gods, whom do you serve?
I would agree with you that nature and everything in it only points one way - towards a creator. Nothing else makes any sense to me and I highly doubt it ever will.
But the Jewish god ain’t it. Not by a long chalk. The Jewish gods is a war god of one people. He was a jealous god - jealous of all his other fellow gods. Angry, spiteful, sadistic and the self-confessed creator of evil.
Nor is the Jewish messiah Jesus any better, who also wages War by deception in order to fulfill the wicked plans of his wicked father YHWH and act as false shepherd to gentiles, leading them to their slaughter and even ‘treading the winepress’ personally himself.
I think there is a creator, absolutely, but I don’t think it can be contained within the bounds of human characteristics and it most certainly would not be YHWH.
I believe you can see the creator in natural things, in the patterns and ways and I believe you can even experience the creator when you have respite from the ego.
Who do you think is the creator? If it's accessible like I imagine it would need to be in order to experience, how?
Have you heard of yaldabaoth / “the demiurge”?
I have heard of these, yes. This is the Gnostic interpretation of YHWH.
Even if YHWH is as the gnostics believe then the ultimate god above him still appointed him over the earth and so is equally as uncaring/evil or equally as ignorant.
I don’t believe in ANY of the Jewish religions or sects of Judaism, be it Christianity or Gnosticism or Islam but the Gnostic assessment of YHWH seems much more sober and realistic.
It’s an even better fix for the conventional story than that! I wouldn’t think of the True, Ultimate, God as somehow “appointing” the demiurge - nor does any school of Gnosticism teach something like this (because, I agree with you, obviously any “God” that “appointed” a demiurge would be no God at all, the problem of the demiurge would merely be pushed back one step).
The Gnostic God and the common view of the Christian God differ in several key theological and philosophical ways, particularly in their roles in creation, their nature, and how they interact with the world and humanity.
Nature of the Divine: The Gnostic God is often viewed as a more abstract, transcendent, and unknowable deity. In Gnostic thought, the highest god (often referred to as the "True God" or the "Source") is completely beyond the physical world and is often seen as a divine, spiritual being of pure thought and light. This god is not typically concerned with the material world, which is often considered inferior or even corrupt.
Creation of the World: In many Gnostic systems, the physical world is seen as the creation of a lower, inferior being known as the Demiurge, rather than the true God. The Demiurge is often depicted as ignorant, arrogant, or even malevolent, trapping souls in a flawed material existence. The True God is not responsible for the creation of the physical world and may be considered indifferent or even hostile to it.
Salvation: Gnosticism emphasizes knowledge (gnosis) as the path to salvation. Gnostic salvation involves awakening to the divine spark within the self and transcending the material world. The Gnostic god is typically seen as a source of hidden knowledge that, when discovered, allows the soul to escape the material realm and return to the divine.
The Role of Jesus: In some Gnostic traditions, Jesus is viewed as a divine messenger or revealer of hidden knowledge, rather than the incarnate God. In Gnostic texts, Jesus may be portrayed as a teacher who helps others to understand the true nature of the divine and escape the illusion of the material world.
View of the Material World: The material world is often viewed negatively in Gnosticism, seen as a prison for the soul. The Gnostic belief generally holds that the physical world is the result of a lower, imperfect divine being (the Demiurge) and that true salvation involves escaping or transcending the material world to reunite with the divine.
In summary, the Gnostic god tends to be more abstract and detached from the material world, with an emphasis on esoteric knowledge and spiritual liberation.
Forgive the use of ChatGPT but it’s hard for me to put this stuff into words and this is better than just linking you to long texts and wiki pages lol