Why does anybody have to be perfect, if we supposedly have free will? why would this God you're talking about, think that his creation would still find him to be a perfect Creator despite his very flawed creation? that's a pretty big risk. And for many of us it has been a huge swing and a miss, we could look at the free will experiment again. People often just put God in a box and say he had to give us free will because he didn't want robots. Well, Heaven already messes that idea up but let's not forget this is an all powerful God he can do whatever he wants and he chose to create a system with free will. This is truly probably the the biggest bet that God is going to place risking that his children will have the option to choose sin and death, and Hell supposedly, and kind of in between these first two with the Eden setup. This is going to be a huge gamble for us where God places a literal test for the first two beings that he creates, Adam & Eve. Everything is perfect that's how God supposedly wants it and he's going to give them the opportunity to fail. But he didn't just allow this one test to exist, he stacked the odds by allowing whatever the serpent is supposed to be something there to further the temptation, the ease of access to this tree the labelled the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Why so easy access to death? and is knowledge so wrong? even the fact that he didn't give them the knowledge of good and evil before, thus eliminating their actual awareness of what was at stake, there's a thousand other ways that God could have tested his creation without creating the fall of man.
It's so obviously just a mythological story and I don't think you fall for it. But if you're going to take it as literal truth then its implications for today is that we are still broken creatures in need of a Savior, the perfect Jesus Christ, as you allude to. However, you first have to answer for why would this God risk so much, but keep in mind there's been about 120 billion Homo sapiens that have existed. If we believe that each of them are imbued with the soul and each of them was born with this sinful nature damning them to Hell from birth unless they properly somehow find and do and believe just the right thing then that first bet with the tree and the garden of Eden becomes the most disgusting gamble and risk for any God of all time.
Salvation
Salvation is this weird concept, to believe that human beings are evil by nature and need to be saved. How about convince people that human beings are not evil by nature? because the viciousness of this concept is followed by they create the Problem, they Agitate the masses, then they Propose the solution. So, is that the salvation of mankind must be the destruction of mankind. So they have Christians and to a lesser extent most Jews who are atheists, so they're not involved in. But to a lesser extent the Cabalists and the Islamic faith all working towards the destruction of humanity based upon the myth that Humanity must be killed to be saved.
So, typical Hegelian dialectic. Thesis: human beings are evil by nature. Antithesis: without God, Yahweh or Allah humans go straight to Hell. Solution: save mankind through the destruction of mankind (Armageddon/nuclear holocaust). Worship (accept/believe) Jesus, Mohamed, Yahweh and obey us (Church, Mosque, Synagogue) or be condemned.
you're citing PBS and Nova as if they're "contrary to the establishment's narrative"
đŸ¤”.... I didn't think you would have any issues with PBS and Nova. Okay, feel free to take it apart.
You're also upholding Islam
I'm not sure what gave you that impression, but if I'd agree with you then we'd both be wrong.
I told you Manetho mentions the name Moses
I'm sure you're aware none of Manetho’s original texts have survived; they are lost literary works, known only from fragments transmitted by later authors. What I said, the historical context of Moses in the Bible is that he is considered a legendary figure, although some scholars believe that a Moses-like person may have existed in the southern Transjordan in the mid-to-late 13th century BCE.
you are running so many contrary stories at once
What? I'm not running any stories. I'm just stating the facts, no contemporary Egyptian sources mention Moses or the events of the Exodus, and no archaeological evidence has been found in Egypt or the Sinai wilderness to support the story in which he is the central figure. The institution of the law in ancient Israel has turned up nothing. The assumption that Moses is the founder of a nation is sorely lacking in evidence. Ancient records are silent about Moses inscriptions. Seals and other texts from ancient Israel and Judah never mention Moses or any of the other Israelite patriarchs. Records from the Babylonian and Persian periods say nothing, the ancient coinage from the province of Judah/Judaea says nothing. The Elephantine Papyri from the Persian era Judeans and Israelites in Egypt show zero awareness of Moses and the Torah. The same goes for the Hermopolis Aramaic letters, Papyrus Amherst 63, the Padua Aramaic papyri and so on.
It appears you are not someone interested in pursuing the truth at all costs, but only in popularizing narratives that advance a reactionary agenda (denigration of Christianity, also Judaism)
Why? because I'm daring to suggest that Moses was not a historical individual? I realize that today it is daring to suggest that our stories about Moses developed as late as the Hellenistic period. The dating of the Hebrew Bible is a topic that remains unresolved. Many traditions and myths found among its pages are old indeed, but the text itself did not reach its final form until the Hellenistic period. If this claim is false it should not be hard to disprove. A single manuscript find could change everything, but I'm not holding my breath. Dr. Gad Barnea a historian at the University of Haifa, after examining every surviving Jewish document from the Persian period, recently stated that there is literally zero evidence for any knowledge of, and any familiarity with the Bible at that time. We may not know how far back the stories of Abraham, Moses, Joshua, David, Solomon, Esther, Daniel and other Bible heroes go. All we can say is that no one seems to have written anything down about them until after Alexander the Great and his Empire introduced Greek literature philosophy and culture to the near East. So what about Moses? we mainly know of Moses from the books of the Pentateuch. The book of Deuteronomy is thought to tell the oldest version of his story with Exodus Leviticus and Numbers being later accretions. The story they tell is filled with improbable and fantastic elements not to mention historical anachronisms and internal contradictions that indicate a work of creative literature.
That's about halfway through so I'll leave it there
I'm not sure why you're doing this, but, you're welcome to finish it whenever you feel like.
If your purpose is to debunk Judaism (and perhaps Christianity)
I'm not trying to debunk anything. I'm just stating a fact; there is no direct archaeological or written evidence outside the Bible that confirms the existence of Abraham and Moses.
- Abraham: No direct archaeological proof of his existence has been found, although some scholars suggest that an Abraham-like figure might have existed around 1800 B.C.E. If we are to hypothetically say Abraham existed, then Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian. But he was a monotheist, a Muslim. So this is what Muhammad is saying. A Muslim is someone who believes in God as the only true God. And that includes Jews and Christians.
- Moses: No texts or artifacts in Egypt or the Sinai have been found that directly connect to Moses.
I wanted to link Carol Meyer's interview, but looks like it has been scrubbed. Anything that people might find believable and that is contrary to the establishment's narrative is being pulled off in no time at all. Same goes for the program "Bible's Buried Secrets", no longer streamable: "(This program is no longer available for online streaming.)". However, the landmark two-hour special NOVA's scientific journey titled "The Bible's Buried Secrets. An archeological detective story traces the origins of the Hebrew Bible" is still available for viewing on YouTube.
Nope, Preston, I don't see myself buying it... what I see first is someone proud of Egypt
I didn't think you would buy it. But, you also have a lot to explain when it comes to numbers, and that's right out of the OT. The event the book of Exodus itself and the Book of Numbers indicate that the people, the Israelites who left Egypt, that there were 600,000 men of military age. So, you're not talking about old man, you're not talking about children and you're not talking about women. Six hundred thousand so you add all the others, what is that? two and a half, three million people? and one problem is that's more than the population of Egypt would have been by a long shot. And apart from that, when you think three million people you expect there's going some kinds of remains like pottery or weaponry or you know, stuff. I mean we have stuff from what, well before that time for other civilizations. There's nothing regarding Exodus and so that's that. It does cause problems for you, think that anything like what the Bible describes happened it's a problem because you'd expect some remains.
Regardless if you buy it or not, Palestine was not the homeland for the kingdom of Israel and the stories of its early patriarchs. The inception of Judaism and the stories of Abraham, Isaac, Joseph and Moses happened in Arabia and Yemen. The blatant failure of Biblical archaeology in the land of Palestine is primarily due to a premise completely flawed and a Bible (Septaguint) cunningly tampered with. By the same evil creeps who manipulate our news and educational materials today. People like Leon Black, the Jewish billionaire who is accused of raping a 7-year-old girl in the Epstein Files and who owns Lifetouch. The biggest school picture company in America that photographs millions of kids each year. Like I said they always lie, but you go on and keep believing them. Rather than Dr. Ashraf Ezzat who indeed may be proud of Egypt, that doesn't mean he would make things up. Or Prof. James Henry Breasted an archaeologist, Egyptologist, and historian.
This creates addition which means your money goes to the manufacturer of these items which is basically the deep state.
Today corporations make money of us regardless if a product is good or bad for health.
And a big plus for coffee, there is no commercially available genetically modified (GMO) coffee in the United States. The National Coffee Association (NCA) states that there is no evidence of GMO coffee cultivated for commercial use.
Semitic languages as "Misraim" (Arabic "Misr", its current official name)
You should read the book titled "Egypt Knew No Pharaohs Nor Israelites", it is a very good read. "The truth is that ancient Egypt never knew any Pharaohs nor any Israelites. Egypt was never the land of Exodus and Palestine was never the Promised Land." - Dr. Ashraf Ezzat
Dr Ezzat is backed by every reputable expert in the world. He argues that ancient Hebrew history as we know it today is based on one big lie, that events described as happening in Egypt, if they happened at all, really happened in Arabia. Dr Ezzat states that the events of the Old Testament occurred in southwestern Arabia, in a province called Mizraim, or Misr, a location now near modern day Yemen, which is where he says the tribe of Israel was really born. Which means that according to his version, the tales of Joseph, Moses and the Exodus might still be true, but the location in which they are alleged to have happened are false.
Egyptologists, from James Henry Breasted to Donald Redford to Israel Finkelstein. Even some Israeli experts agree, including the head of archaeology at Tel Aviv University, Prof. Ze'ev Herzog, in a 1999 article in Ha'aretz, said: "The Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel.". Egypt's written records date back to 1870 BC. No trace of the Israelites.
A good summary of early culture is Gen. 6:1-8, where we see exactly
Why do you keep referring to OT, which is an old forgery? I just proved that to you it's a fraud, there is no mention of Pyramids, Sphinx, etc. But, that is just for starters... the terrain, which in the OT more resembles hilly Arabia rather than flat Egypt. Also, the Bible recounts droughts, which Egypt never had, only fluctuations in the flooding of the Nile. Many of the events ascribed to the area of present day Palestine actually occurred much further south down the coast of the Red Sea. an even more telling detail in the Joseph story was the camel caravan carrying "gum, balm and myrrh", which were products of Arabian trade, not Egypt's. But the most revealing clue the OT is nothing but a forgery was the notion of slavery, which Ezzat claims was never practiced in Egypt until the Greeks and Persians brought the practice with them a thousand years later than the supposed time of Moses and Joseph. Some stories state the pyramids were built by slaves, but history shows us the pyramid builders were willing volunteers, as the village of the pyramid builders attests. Another aspect of this millennia-old OT fraud was the label of pharaoh, which no Egyptian document ever uses. But the leader of the Mizraim tribe was called Faraon, which made the switch from Hebrew to Greek and the creation of a villainous pharaoh many centuries later an easy trick to pull off. Egypt, one of the best documented of all ancient civilizations, never once used the term pharaoh.
The Septaguint deception had been the result of a Greek-Jewish bond very similar to nowadays' American-Israeli one. Controlling and manipulating world superpowers, ancient and modern, is obviously an old Jewish proficiency. They replaced this obscure tribal leader Faraon with the mighty Egypt and its king.
Gen. 10 includes an incredible wealth of worldwide data encoded in names. Here Mizraim is given as a son
Jews wrote the Hebrew Bible. And Jews lie. They lied in the past, they lie today. How many modern examples do you need? just read the Epstein released files. Netanyahu said recently in a speech that the Jewish people were building Jerusalem 3000 years ago. Yet another Jewish lie. Ezzat says no. "The Jewish people were not building Jerusalem 3000 years ago, i.e. 1000 BC... There was no invasion of geographical Palestine from Egypt by former slaves in the 2200s BCE... The chronicle of events of the reign of Ramses II on the wall in Luxor does not know about any major slave results or flights by same into the Sinai peninsula. Egyptian sources never heard of Moses or the 12 plagues etc.".
In his breakthrough theory "Bible Came from Arabia" Dr. Kamal Salibi has discovered more than one hundred place names in Arabia and North Yemen that amazingly matched the ones mentioned in the Torah, Ezzat writes. "The land Joshua conquered was a small territory in North Yemen. The Egypt of the Bible is not the Egypt of the Nile Valley but an obscure little town in the southwestern desert of ancient Arabia called Mizraim, or Misr in Hebrew and Arabic. "The Exodus took place in a much humbler way and on a much narrower scale in an obscure little village in ancient South Arabia," Ezzat writes.
Prof. Breasted writes the Egyptians possessed a standard of morals far superior to that of the Decalogue (the Ten Commandments) over a thousand years before the Decalogue was written. So Ezzat is not making this stuff up. Breasted is one of the most respected historians ever. And Ezzat's insistence that much of the material in the OT is fabricated, distorted and plagiarized is true. For instance, the wisdom of Amenemope, preserved in an Egyptian papyrus in the British Museum, was translated into Hebrew in ancient times and, circulating in Palestine, was the source for a whole section of the OT Book of Proverbs.
Jews lie. They always have, and they always will.
It's not useful to seize upon u/Mrexreturns writing his althist to present more of the same. OP is an interesting subject but we may be derailing it a bit. The real question I'd have for you is: do you pursue truth at all costs (free-thinking, open-minded)
I can ask you the same question. I believe all these biblical characters are made up. Obviously you will object, since you're an OT believer, and I suspect also a Talmud believer. I'm not. I consider the OT just a bunch of stories put together over a long period of time. But I don't want to debate any of this with you.
I want you to answer one question I have. Do you know Egypt is mentioned in the Bible about 600 times? yet, not once are the Pyramids mentioned. Yet, ancient Egypt is home to countless treasures. To more than 100 pyramids, ancient cities, temples, statues like the Sphinx, and countless other mysteries, none of this is ever mentioned in the Bible. It’s like the writers of both the Old and New Testament in the Bible didn't know anything about ancient Egypt. What is mentioned in the Bible is Pharaohs... but, Egypt never had Pharaohs. That’s another thing which has been made up. Their rulers were known as Kings. There is nothing recorded in Egypt literature archives about Moses, or Israelites, or slavery. In fact Egypt didn't widely practice slavery, and never had slave open markets. Also, nothing recorded about the Exodus, escaping of the Jews to the promised land, in Egyptian literature. How could the Hebrews (Jews) write extensively about the Exodus and Moses, Joseph, Abraham, etc. in the Bible, but not once mention the Pyramids ... the most important achievement of the people in Egypt? Nothing in the Hebrew culture or even traditions (Talmud is the most important book in Jewish culture) resemble anything to do with ancient Egypt. But, plenty of traditions from Babylon where the Israelites were in captivity for 70 years (not 400 years like in Egypt, according to what we're told).
All historians?
Maybe the ones you know. Moses and the tribes (Israelites) were Arabs from Yemen. The Israelites you think of, the ones in the OT never set foot in Egypt. That part is all made up.
And this is what I got from the AI: "Abraham and Moses are considered to be legendary figures, as there is no proof of their existence outside of the Bible. 135 Many details in the Book of Genesis, which tells the story of Abraham, are known only from the Bible and have not been corroborated by the historical record. For example, in the account of the war between the kings of the Five Cities of the Plain and four kings led by the ruler of Elam, none of the nine monarchs involved are known outside of the Biblical story. 2 The texts that mention Moses are accepted to have not been written until the Babylonian Exile (late 6th century BCE), whereas the event itself would have occurred 700 years earlier. There is no real corroborating records of such a thing from any other sources. ".
Solomon doesn't exist
Did Abraham or Moses ever exist? perhaps they're all made up for the story. According to Jewish tradition, Abraham lived 4000 years ago and Moses lived 3000 years ago . So far no archaeological evidence for Moses in Egypt has been found.
George H.W. Bush. And Bush Sr. is in the Epstein files, and the accusation against him is that he was organizing these orgies that we saw in Eyes Wide Shut. And they're satanic rituals.
I can see Epstein being involved with so many things. If a day had 1,000 hours, not 24, still would not be enough for a man to be involved in so much crap. The number of people working at M0ssad is estimated to be around 7,000. Still not enough.
Remember this: a slave with inner light does not fear death, a peasant with a sense of divine stature does not accept being owned by the system or someone else, and a whole nation moved by inner courage and character it’s not possible to control.
I assume the Creator to you is the God of the Old Testament. You call him Yahweh, but feel free to correct me. This god by the way shows to have omniscience as he is constantly, at least in the OT, surprised, regretful and angered all of a sudden. So, this God of the Bible who is supposed to be the example of the good father I see so many problems to the degree of which I have to say this God is simply willing to gamble with his creation his children's well-being their lives and worse their souls. This god Yahweh is not limiting evil, he's amplifying evil throughout the entire OT. I think allowing the serpent adds kind of unnecessary gamble. And all of this leads to which is the problem of evil God allows a world of evil and suffering to exist and still hopes that people can find their way to believing that he is a good god which is necessary for people to believe in, to worship him and follow him and put trust in him. Many people myself included are more than willing to accept that there could be a god out there. And many people like myself immediately remove this God, Yahweh, from the possibility of that because he is either not the good god he says he is, thus refuting his claims in the Bible and making himself falsifiable, or he's straight up evil and not worthy of my worship or not trustworthy of my devotion.
I'm not saying that. People have different opinions of what means to be saved, I think that's obvious. To me it makes no sense for a good father to decide he's going to flood the whole world. Why? because things got away from him he regretted the creation that he made. Even though it was made exactly how he intended it to be with his perfect form knowledge. If we're going to again attribute these things to God that's problematic in and of itself but the bet is that the world would be better that Humanity 2.0 would somehow get it right and he lost that bet immediately in the sense that Noah sinned almost as soon as you could sin. As well as his sons and from there it simply did not get any better. So all that genocide all that murder all that suffering all those animals all those babies all those women all those people who were collectively not horrible and evil paid an awfully hefty price for God's 2.0 gamble that failed as soon the flood receded. If you still don't see a problem with this god, wait for the next one, and we're only in Genesis.
How about the Tower of Babel risk? Yahweh who claims himself to be not the author of confusion purposely confused people creating new languages and scattering them around the earth and what's the gamble here? these people will still be able to find him even though he's not going to appear to most of the places on Earth for a very very long time, if at all. And that he's only going to give his holy scriptures in three of the many thousands of languages relying on humans to be able to translate them and spread them around this large Earth. He didn't provide for anything that would be necessary to overcome these odds. We didn't get the printing press for millennia nor did we cross the oceans. There was simply no hope for the vast majority of all people who have ever lived because of this decision, this bet from God. I hope that by now you're seeing failure after failure after failure. And the best thing you can do especially if you're parent is just compare yourself, really compare yourself, with God. I don't care how bad of a parent you think you are I can almost guarantee you you are miles above this God.
I'm only proposing people use common sense. If you had just two children and they were going to be 100% dependent off of you for their survival and their eternal fate would you raise them each with their own language so that they could not communicate or work together? and then would you provide them the instructions for how to live life and find you in a different language than those two with simply no way to access it? because that's what this God did.
You're talking about moral law, how about this. And I'm willing to be wrong on that, if you can show me something different, I will correct myself. But my understanding is that Lot's oldest daughter convinced the younger daughter to join her in an incestuous relationship with their father to perpetuate the family lineage. Both daughters conceived sons by their father by getting him drunk. So, Lot's eldest daughter with Lot has a son named Moab the ancestor of the Moabites. Where we get Ruth and Ruth and Boaz are the great grandparents of King David. And we know through King David we get the lineage of Jesus. So if I'm understanding everything correctly, Jesus is 100% a descendant from this ancestral rape again bringing forth the literal nature of these stories instead of some metaphorical moral truth.
I'm not criticizing anyone, just point out the facts. I'm not even sure what you mean by "criticizing those of us who are doing it". What exactly are you doing?