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The Bible vs Eastern Orthodoxy (www.youtube.com)
posted 22 days ago by TurnToGodNow 22 days ago by TurnToGodNow +4 / -4
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– TurnToGodNow [S] 2 points 19 days ago +2 / -0

What? I can't read that sentence without my interpreter present. Are you speaking Chinese?

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– SmithW1984 2 points 19 days ago +2 / -0

You won't get away from this mess by being clever.

Let's see an example from John 6:

I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”

53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is [k]food indeed, and My blood is [l]drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you?

Since you hold that the meaning of God's words are as self-evident as a stop sign and are abundantly clear and straight forward. Do tell, do you eat the flesh and drink the blood of our Lord to get eternal life as He commanded?

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– TurnToGodNow [S] 2 points 18 days ago +2 / -0

Most commandments are self evident, there are few which need interpretation. Is "thou shalt not steal" a head-scratcher? "Call no man father" is self evident, you literally should not call your clergy "father" and CERTAINLY not "holy father" which Roman Catholics do. Simple. If a group breaks such a clear command or even is willing to appear to, then its ruled out from being an obedient church.

It's just like if a church promotes a sodomite lifestyle or gender confusion. The Bible clearly condemns it, such a church should be cut off, no question. There are many such cases.

So yes, you can find some passages that are metaphorical and by definition those require interpretation. God is aware of that (as he is aware of all things). When it comes to salvation, we have sufficient teachings. One can look at a single passage and be confused, but taken as a whole it all makes sense.

Peter said " ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. " [Acts 15:6]

We also see in acts, there is repentance and baptism

Peter said "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." [Acts 2:38]

If there was this need for "sacraments" and other traditions that is the section to mention it. No I don't believe we have a God who withheld that from us and required you meet an Orthodox priest in order to be saved.

We see what is spoken of in the earliest church. Repent, believe, be baptized, receive the Holy Spirit. We see these things. Can we call ourselves conservative if we add to this hundreds of years later (say the 4th century, when some scholars say these additions began)?

Study the scriptures and pray.

Now, it seems reasonable you could already be saved DESPITE extra traditions. If you believe and receive what the apostles clearly write about, then that's wonderful, and I'm happy for that. But getting people focused on ritual, penance and works can definitely lead people away from the gospel shown in the acts of the apostles.

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– SmithW1984 2 points 18 days ago +2 / -0

That's a lot of words to answer a simple question and in the end you didn't answer but went on a tangent and weaseled out. Do you follow Jesus's commandment and eat His flesh and drink His blood or do you ignore that, forfeiting eternal life and condemning yourself to death instead? Is this a hard saying for you too? Does it offend you?

I can give you a hundred more examples like this and expose how inconsistent, reductionist and arbitrary your exegesis is.

It seems you pick and choose the parts of it you like and go with them. Almost as if you're doing your own free interpretation that aligns with extra-biblical assumptions you hold (the protestant exegesis tradition and your own biases) and you're not truly following the text...

Most commandments are self evident, there are few which need interpretation. Is "thou shalt not steal" a head-scratcher?

Thanks for proving my point once more. Yes, even this commandment is not self-evident and absolute. In cases of true necessity for survival, taking what is needed is not “theft” in the moral sense, because life is more fundamental than property.

Same goes for other such commandments. You realize the same God that commanded Thou shall not kill in Ex. 20:13, also said in Ex. 21:12, “He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death.” The Holy Spirit authored both these statements and they are not in conflict. Rather, these texts teach that the sin/crime of murder is wrong, and that a lawful magistrate killing a murderer is, in fact, virtuous. So yes, even this straightforward command is interpreted contextually. Even if you reject the death penalty which God institutionalized, it is obvious to anyone that killing can be justified if it's in self-defense or when protecting the ones you love.

Do you see now how much deeper everything in Scripture is and how your literal, legalist and limited understanding of it is leading you in the wrong direction away from what God intended? This is where pride and putting your faith in your own reason as the ultimate authority and ability to discern leads you.

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