'Burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim. Lack of belief is not a claim. There is no compelling, falsifiable evidence for the existence of any god of religion. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. It's why I can say "there is no god" without having to prove there is no god, because such a statement is not making a positive claim. Until you can prove there is a god of religion, I do not need to prove there is no god. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's why unearthed diaries of ordinary people doing ordinary things is valid evidence of the ordinary. But an ordinary book telling of extraordinary deeds is not valid evidence of said deeds, because a book written by men is not extraordinary evidence.'
The top reply to the post above has remained my own, as follows:
Thank you for getting this community started, we might get to continue our prior conversation in the archives of Christianity.
I'm not going long on it right now, but I'll keep it in mind and might get back to you on an occasional basis.
For now I'd say let's back away from the concept "god of religion", as that entails assuming certain attributes to this concept that you don't want to define.
There is compelling, falsifiable evidence for the existence of things; for measurable differences in magnitude between these things; and for one such thing to be necessarily the greatest of all of them (for instance, the spacetime cosmos is greater than any thing it contains).
Therefore I assert it proven that some greatest thing exists, even if it is not a "god of religion".
(There's also a side line: you effectively define "there is no god" as "I have no evidence of god". If both god and evidence of god existed, but you just hadn't been given that evidence yet, it would be false to believe there were no god even though you had no evidence of god. Therefore the two statements are not the same and you're defining your atheism effectively as agnosticism. A true atheist makes a positive assertion that a god as he defines it is a contradiction, so your finesse against that necessity makes you an agnostic because you assert having "no knowledge". But that might not be the important point.)
Add: With thanks to the community and moderator, the following summary of the assertions in salient threads is presented.
https://scored.co/c/Atheist/p/141reluACp/-burden-of-proof-is-on-the-one-m/c/4OUfR2Rkd1Q
- If nothing exists, nothing can be proven (Provine).
- Things exist (Descartes).
- Things are measurable (Democritus).
- A greatest thing can be detected, defined according to its measurability (Adler).
- Things have causes (Aristotle).
- An infinite past sequence of causes is impossible (some cause is primal and/or final) (Plato).
- An immeasurable first cause can be inferred that leads to the causing of all things (al-Ghazali).
- All that is or ever can be, by definition, includes the combination of first cause and greatest thing; call this entity "Cosmos" (Sagan).
- The Cosmos contains meaning (defined as complex specified information) (Meyer).
- Earlier states of the spacetime universe must contain, in seed form, all the meaning present in later states; call this relationship "Determinism" (telling what to do or think) (Edis).
- The first cause must contain meaning that leads to the meaning of all things (Dembski).
- The Cosmos contains life (defined loosely as meaningful self-replicating structures) (Watson-Crick).
- By conservation of information, life can only arise from previous meaningful self-replicating structures, even if these structures are not recognized.
- The Cosmos contains consciousness (defined loosely as living neuronal patterns measurably associated with given things).
- Consciousness changes (call this process "Thought").
- The Cosmos contains morality (defined as consciousness associated with self-helping or self-harming events).
- The first cause must contain life, consciousness and thought, and morality, that lead to these attributes of all things.
- The probability of these attributes arising from their absence is mathematically absurd, such that every origin theory instead describes some attribute container as a first cause (Tipler et al.).
https://scored.co/c/Atheist/p/141reluR7d/science-methodology-vs-faith-met/c/4OUfR2U0ayw
https://scored.co/c/Atheist/p/141reluR7d/science-methodology-vs-faith-met/c/4OUfRBqFAUS
- The origin of conscious, moral humanity has been measured as being less than about 1 million years ago.
- The Hubble age of the flat universe is about 9 billion years (NASA).
- The oldest star cluster age by brightness measurement is 11-18 billion years (also NASA), or by another source 12-14 billion.
- Since these two measurements contradict, neither can be accepted as settled; resolutions disagree.
- A third measurement of light age by lightspeed decay is less than 1 billion years; this too cannot be accepted as settled (Magueijo et al.).
- Since the primary origin theory (BBT) assumes lightspeed invariance, lightspeed decay is not an unscientific theory.
- Dark matter is a hypothetical substance that has no observable effects other than to allow the Hubble age to agree with the brightness age.
- The existence of dark matter cannot be accepted as settled given that lightspeed decay is another theory accounting for the same effect but with greater explanatory power.
- Review of evidence of each potential age, including under 1 billion in the younger theory, is warranted to seek a more settled resolution.
- Gen. 1:1 is consistent with measurable conclusions about the first cause and with the younger age (Morris).
- Gen. 1:3 is consistent with the 1-second mark in BBT where sound and light photons come into being.
- Gen. 1:1-5 is consistent with the first 24 hours of BBT.
- Gen. 1:1-2:4a as a whole is a theory consistent with the younger age theory.
- Any conclusion about universal age must reject some current theory (BBT, Hubble constant, cosmological constant, etc.) and so no theory is final and all theories are tentative until this happens.
https://scored.co/c/Christianity/p/15HbknaXa9/x/c/4OXGESifXDG
- The Universal Pantheist Society is a 501(c)(3) recognized "religion" defining its god as having existence, eternality, omnipresence, divinity, sacredness, and immanence.
- The Cosmos has all the attributes of the pantheist god, and is thus a god of religion.
- Christian panentheism is a Christian religion defining its god via the Apostles' Creed as having existence, immanence, omniefficiency, anointing (defined as unique purpose), and spirituality (defined as meaning).
- Historical documents preserve mundane events with sufficient accuracy to be admitted by historians as evidence for generalized claims such as the existence of Jesus of Nazareth.
- Historical evidence shows the Cosmos contains Jesus of Nazareth and that his existence is uniquely purposeful in history.
- The Cosmos has the attributes of existence, immanence, omniefficiency, purpose (via its containment of Jesus), and meaning, and is thus a god of a Christian (Apostles' Creed) religion.
https://scored.co/c/Atheist/p/15HbpWW1qq/compelling-falsifiable-evidence-/c/4OXGXWGEga3
- Manuscript evidence indicates that by the 50s AD there were several broadly circulating, widely agreeing full testimonies about Jesus.
- Historical document accuracy is tested by fit, independence, embarrassability, dissimilarity, idiom, and coherence.
- By these criteria, these and other documents about Jesus have a high measurable accuracy.
- Primary sources include Syriac Matthew, Mark, Greek Matthew, Luke-Acts (a 2-volume work), Tacitus, John, Josephus, and the Talmud.
- Secondary sources include Thallus, Mara, Phlegon, Philopon, Lucian, Suetonius, Pliny the Younger, Celsus, and Tertullian quoting Tiberius (not counting 22 other NT documents and other patristics).
- The preponderance of historical documents indicates the historical Jesus is a person who had a unique self-conception and character.
- Jesus's self-concept, each detail attested by multiple independent sources, included being Christ, unique Son of God, unique Son of Man, king of God's kingdom, unique teacher of Israel, unique forgiver of sins against God, and a wonder worker.
- The evidence Jesus claimed these things is fully comparable to the generally accepted historical evidence that others like Julius Caesar claimed these or similar things.
- The same evidence shows Jesus had high personal morality, sanity, and character with no signs of deception or lunacy.
- Theories that Jesus's self-concept was inaccurate do not account for the historical fact that that self-concept was attested and therefore conceived by someone at least as unique as the self-concept itself was.
- The accuracy of Jesus's self-concept, in which he had access to powers of the Cosmos, is the theory with best explanatory power.
- CFE has now been demonstrated that the Cosmos (first cause and greatest thing), containing Jesus, constitutes the God of robust Biblical religion.
One can only claim by free will of choice, while being relieved. Others suggest proofs to tempt ones consent to claim self imposed burdens.
Only within everything can nothing be shaped. Nothing/nihilo implies suggested nihil-ism tempting ones de-nial of everything perceivable.
Only within everything (cause) can each thing (effect) be expressed.
To measure implies artificially synthesizing what nature separates for analysis.
One can only measure all, while being in the process of separation from one another. Life cannot measure its inception or death, hence being in-between a process of separation (analysis).
There can be only one cause for each effect within...others suggest pluralism to tempt ONE to ignore singularity.
Cause implies primal (inception) and final (death) for each effect (life) within...others suggest sequence/sequi (to follow) to tempt one into ignoring perceivable primal for suggested final.
a) Being implies the secondary (seco; to divide) inference within first cause.
b) Things cannot be all...only within all can each thing come into being. Others suggest one to measure the sum of all things, which implies a game of puzzle aka mosaic law. No matter what one summons together...nature divides it apart.
a) All was perceivable before ones perception can suggest another what it is...definitions, combinations and callings tempt one to ignore natural (perception) for artificial (suggestion).
b) Entity/einai - "to be" implies towards (inception towards death) being (life)...a process of separation; not something requiring a cosmetic (cosmos) name.
Only after one consents to the suggested label "cosmos", does it become specified information aka meaning. Nature doesn't suggest information...it moves perceivable inspiration through each beings perception.
a) Nature doesn't contain aka con (together) + tenere (to hold)...it sets each one within free (will of choice) from one another.
b) Only within all (motion) can there be soil (momentum) for each seed (matter).
What implies natural synthesis? Form? Coagulation?
So all is? Primality and finality are implied? And all is perceived?
Is the name "All" a name?
Do inspiration and information interact?
Death of life aka form dissolving within flow. Coagulation implies inception of life aka flow forming.
WAS perceivable...others distract ones perception with suggestions about what all IS.
Consenting to a suggestion implies holding onto what is, while ignoring that all was moving before one came into being.
If/then implies linear progression...coming into being (life) implies within linear progression (inception towards death).
All "was" perceivable before ones perception came into being.
What does ALL imply? Everything! What does name imply? Each thing named by one another.
Only within all (sound) can name (word) be shaped.
IN implies each being within all of nature. TION implies all action for each ones re-action within. SPIRA implies all animating each one to breathe. FORM implies formed within flow.
The issue..inFORMation tempts one to hold onto; while inSPIRation forces form to let go of.
Within flow...form breaths! Flow moves spirit into form (inhale), while moving ghost out of form (exhale).
Respiration aka responding (matter) to spirit (momentum) of action (motion).
Action moves; reaction can be tricked to ignore being moved.
Does one within all imply any traction for other?
All perceived all?
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
A time to get, and a time to lose.
A time to keep, and a time to cast away.
A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together.
A time to be born, and a time to die.
Does form receive spirit and let go ghost? Does inspiration force form to receive?
Tract/tragh - "to draw, drag, move"...all moves through each one, which allows each one to draw within all. Drawing from/onto one another drags one down. Drawing from inspiration grows self; drawing from information burdens ones growth.
As one within all...other implies the temptation of artificial "attraction", which nature repels.
Example...intercourse (attraction) leading to off-spring (repulsion). Repel implies ones response (re) to being thrust (pel) by all...attraction vs repulsion among one another tempts one to ignore that.
All was perceivable aka enabling (able) forward (per) grasping (ceiv) before ones perception became enabled to grasp all perceivable...grasping at one another's suggestions tempts one to ignore that.
Name/nombre/number - "designation of a unit" from unitas/unus - "one". That's the aether (eter) within (n) all (al) aka each ones vital force within the oneness of all.
It's attaching names and numbers to one, which tempts one to ignore one for one another. Dividing implies from one another...not into two unless branded as such.
If one holds onto breath while thinking about this; then before one forms an answer...nature forces spirit out of one. That force implies natures solution to each problematic being within...all dissolves any formed question or answer shaped by anyone within.
Being within solution implies dis (life) solution (inception towards death) aka the division of sol/sole (one and only).
a) Action forces reaction aka flow (inception towards death) forcing form (life), and "in" implies forced from without (whole) within (partial aka part in all).
b) To receive implies ones response (re) grasping (ceive) what all forwards towards (to) each one...others interject suggestion in-between all perceivable and ones perception to manipulate what one receives.
That's where the force of inspiration continues, while the form within holds onto information by influence of another. Adapting to force grows ones reinforcement, while ignoring it weakens ones reinforcement, hence opening ones mind to influence by another.
In "Das Ende der Wanderschaft"... https://das-ende-der-wanderschaft.com/content/The-Wanderers-Redemption.pdf the author describes a jew as mobile and gentiles as grasping, which implies a jew exploiting natures force of inspiration by tempting gentiles to grasp at information instead.
That's also the origin of the wandering jew...it's gentiles who ignore that form (life) within flow (inception towards death) wanders, and a jew exploits this by shaping a circle inside (logic) and outside (reason) the gentile mind to keep them wandering around instead of thinking straight.
Time/timere - "to fear"...to measure time makes one timid (fearful) of loosing it.
In nature time implies duration aka action (inception towards death) making reaction (life) dur-able aka able to endure.
And/en - "in"... https://www.etymonline.com/word/and
Not what comes next, but being one within all aka beginning (being gaining) within end/and.
The suggested "and" tempts one to count together (synthesis); while "and/en/in" implies ones perception divided from one another within all perceivable aka an analytical process. That's how insidious spell-craft was designed to invert reality into fiction within ones mind.
Is Self with Other, All?
If nature forces spirit out, what forces spirit in? (Ignoring suggestion.)
Nature implies the spiritual force moving in (inception) and out (death) of being (life).
All (motion) > spirit (momentum) > one (matter)...motion animates matter through momentum, while matter looses momentum within motion aka temporary living within ongoing process of dying.
It still suggs/sucks...even if ignored, which is what matter needs to resist motion.
All was. Self implies all moving through each one within aka same moving through each difference, hence one being able to see self within another (parent>child for example).
Suggesting what self "is" implies taking possession over what nature processes. Male seed going through female soil into off-spring implies self-perpetuation of each one through one another.
Self implies "same" aka same nature moving through each different being or same sound moving through each different word or same inspiration moving through each different information.
A jew suggests "likeness" to distract difference (perception) from sameness (perceivable)...consensus among gentiles represents the likeness a jew shapes. Mixing differences together to make them alike implies tikkun olam (repairing the world by bringing together).
Will all be again?
"Nature implies the spiritual force moving in ... and out." "Nature forces spirit out", and in.
Does self imply all moving through one with all moving through others? One within all, others within all, no "others than others"?
Is "repair" suggestion or inspiration?
Per aka through, petu- aka pter- to wing, -ation aka action, implies action winging through. Sun's wings are rays aka past line and future line.
The entire Jesus story was a lie from a cheating whore to cover her affair.
Fucking hell. No wonder you retards believe women. Your entire worldview is based on the idea they don't lie.
If you read through the OP, the female factor isn't present at all. By the same standards that other testimony is reviewed, the testimony about a unique Jesus requires either that he exists or that someone of equal moral and imaginative character must have existed so as to get such a unique legend going.
That is the worldview is based on this being the best worldview going, the most consistent in its morality and presuppositions (and eventually with respect to even your own issues of equal rights and justice for people in your position). The fact that it came up among a questionable people and with a historically questioned origin, and still propagated with more rapidity than any other worldview ever, because people found it greater truth and greater life than they had ever seen, indicates that the drawbacks become hostile witnesses in favor of the truth of the core.
Are you, sir, interested in pursuing the truth at all costs, or are you indistinguishable from a bot that uses the rights of, well, incels as a springboard to overturn all other pursuit of truth? You seem a person capable of answering a simple question like that.
This must be your first time interacting with imp. The concept of truth is meaningless to him.
Interacting meaningfully with, yes, and I give him the same credit as anyone. Observing, not at all.