In honor of u/Tetartos_Ippeas I will occasionally repost from other fora to c/Conspiracies. This one is in light of a comment by u/no_ez.
This is expanded from an earlier post via my attempting to keep the most important details without imbalance (even though editorial decisions are unavoidable and the current list is Amerocentric).
- Constantine didn't like other Catholics and founded Roman ("Lateran") Catholics, 312.
- Roman Catholics under Damasus I and "antipope" Ursinus I didn't like each other and were briefly two churches, 366-367.
- Roman Catholics didn't like Nestorius whose church got called Church of the East, 424.
- Roman Catholics didn't like Cyril of Alexandria whose church got called Oriental Orthodox, 451.
- Roman Catholics didn't like Abraham I whose church got called Armenian Apostolic, 607.
- Roman Catholics didn't like Michael I whose church got called Eastern Orthodox, 1056.
- Roman Catholics under Innocent II and "antipope" Anacletus II didn't like each other and were briefly two churches, 1130-1138.
- Roman Catholics didn't like Peter Waldo whose church got called Waldensians ("Huguenots"), 1215.
- Roman Catholics under Urban VI and "antipope" Clement VII didn't like each other and were briefly two churches, 1378-1417.
- Roman Catholics didn't like John Wyclif whose church got called Lollards, 1381.
- Roman Catholics under Gregory XII, "antipope" Benedict XIII, and "antipope" Alexander V didn't like each other and were briefly three churches, 1409-1417.
- Roman Catholics didn't like Jan Hus whose church got called Moravians ("Hussites"), 1415.
- Roman Catholics didn't like Martin Luther whose church got called Lutherans ("Evangelicals"), 1521.
- Lutherans didn't like Conrad Grebel whose church got called Anabaptists, 1525.
- Lutherans didn't like Huldrych Zwingli whose church got called Zwinglians ("Calvinists"), 1529.
- Henry VIII didn't like Roman Catholics and founded Anglicans ("Episcopals"), 1534.
- Menno Simons didn't like Roman Catholics and founded Mennonites, 1536.
- Shimun VIII didn't like Church of the East so Roman Catholics founded Chaldean ("Malabar") Catholics for him, 1553.
- John Knox didn't like Roman Catholics and founded Presbyterians, 1560.
- Anglicans didn't like Richard Fitz and John Browne whose church got called Congregationalists ("Brownists", "Independents", "United Church of Christ"), 1567.
- Roman Catholics didn't like Gaspar van der Heyden, Jean Tan, and Joannes Polyander, whose church got called Reformed, 1571.
- Anglicans didn't like Henry Barrow and John Greenwood whose church got called Separatists ("Barrowists", "Pilgrims"), 1587.
- Anglicans didn't like John Smyth whose church got called Baptists, 1607.
- Johann van Oldenbarnevelt didn't like Calvinists and founded Remonstrants ("Arminians"), 1610.
- Henry Jacob didn't like Anglicans and founded Calvinist ("Particular", "Reformed") Baptists, 1616.
- Anglicans didn't like Hamlet Jackson and Dorothy Traske whose church got called Seventh Day Baptists, 1616.
- Congregationalists didn't like Roger Williams whose church got called American Baptists, 1638.
- Gerrard Winstanley and William Everard didn't like Anglicans and founded Levellers ("Diggers"), 1649.
- Anglicans didn't like George Fox whose church got called Friends ("Quakers"), 1650.
- Paul Palmer didn't like other Baptists and founded Free Will Baptists, 1702.
- Alexander Mack didn't like Roman Catholics and founded German Baptists ("Church of the Brethren"), 1708.
- Roman Catholics didn't like Jakob Ammann whose church got called Amish, 1712.
- Roman Catholics didn't like Cornelius Steenoven and Dominique Varlet whose church got called Old Catholics ("Independent Catholics"), 1724.
- Eastern Orthodox didn't like Cyril VI so Roman Catholics founded Melkite Greek Catholics for him, 1729.
- Ebenezer and Ralph Erskine didn't like other Presbyterians and founded Associate Reformed Presbyterians ("United Secession Church", "United Free Church"), 1733.
- Anba Athanasius briefly didn't like Eastern Orthodox so Roman Catholics founded Coptic Catholics for him, 1741.
- Thomas Nairn didn't like Presbyterians and founded Reformed Presbyterians ("Covenanters"), 1743.
- Other Baptists didn't like George Whitefield whose church got called Second Baptist ("Separate Baptists"), 1743.
- James and Jane Wardley didn't like Quakers and founded Believers ("Shakers"), 1747.
- John Wesley didn't like Anglicans and founded Methodists ("Wesleyans"), 1784.
- Martin Boehm didn't like Mennonites and Philip Otterbein didn't like Reformed, and they founded United Brethren, 1800.
- Barton Stone didn't like Presbyterians and founded Churches of Christ, 1803.
- Methodists didn't like Hugh Bourne and William Clowes whose church got called Primitive Methodists, 1807.
- Presbyterians didn't like Thomas Campbell whose church got called Disciples of Christ, 1809.
- Anthony Groves didn't like Anglicans and founded Plymouth ("Open") Brethren, 1825.
- Quakers didn't like each other, and their churches got called Orthodox Quakers ("Friends United Meeting") and Hicksite Quakers ("Friends General Conference"), 1827.
- Reformed didn't like Samuel Frohlich whose church got called Apostolic Christians ("Evangelical Baptists", "New Anabaptists"), 1830.
- Lutherans didn't like Johann Scheibel whose church got called Wisconsin Synod ("Independent Evangelical", "Old") Lutherans, 1832.
- Reformed didn't like Hendrik de Cock whose church got called Christian Reformed, 1834.
- Other Lutherans didn't like Carl Walther whose church got called Missouri Synod Lutherans, 1839.
- David Welsh, Thomas Chalmers, and Robert Candlish didn't like Presbyterians and founded Free Church of Scotland, 1843.
- Albany Conference didn't like Baptists and founded Adventists ("First-Day"), 1845.
- William Johnson didn't like other American Baptists and founded Southern Baptists, 1845.
- John Wilbur didn't like Friends United and founded Conservative Friends ("Wilburite Quakers"), 1847.
- John Darby didn't like Open Brethren and founded Exclusive ("Darbyist") Brethren, 1848.
- Methodists didn't like James Everett, William Griffith, and Samuel Dunn, whose church got called United Methodist ("Reform"), 1849.
- Gilbert Cranmer didn't like Adventists and founded Church of God (Seventh Day), 1858.
- Southern Baptists didn't like James Graves whose church got called Landmark Baptists ("Bride"), 1859.
- Other Methodists didn't like Benjamin Roberts whose church got called Free Methodists, 1860.
- Jonathan Cummings didn't like Adventists and founded Advent Christians, 1860.
- Ellen White didn't like other Adventists and founded Seventh-Day Adventists, 1863.
- William and Catherine Booth didn't like Methodist Reform and founded Salvation Army, 1865.
- George Hoffman didn't like United Brethren and founded United Christians, 1877.
- German Baptists didn't like Samuel Kinsey whose church got called Old German Baptists, 1881.
- German Baptists didn't like Henry Holsinger whose church got called Brethren Church, 1882.
- Baptists didn't like Richard Spurling whose church got called Church of God ("Cleveland"), 1886.
- Charles Spurgeon didn't like other Baptists and founded Independent ("Fundamental") Baptists, 1887.
- Albert Simpson didn't like Presbyterians and founded Christian and Missionary Alliance, 1887.
- Donald MacFarlane didn't like Free Church of Scotland and founded Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland, 1893.
- William McAlpine, William Simmons, and Bishop Johnson didn't like other American Baptists and founded National Baptists, 1895.
- Charles Parham didn't like Methodists and founded Apostolic Faith ("Assemblies of God"), 1895.
- Joseph Widney and Phineas Bresee didn't like Methodists and founded Church of the Nazarene, 1895.
- Baptists didn't like Charles Jones and Charles Mason whose church got called Church of God in Christ, 1896.
- Benjamin Young, Benjamin Irwin, and Abner Crumpler didn't like Methodists and founded Fire Baptized Holiness ("Pentecostal Holiness"), 1896.
- Southeastern Kansas Fire Baptized Holiness Association didn't like Fire Baptized Holiness and founded Bible Holiness ("Wesleyan Fire Baptized Holiness"), 1898.
- Nicholas Tolstoy didn't like Eastern Orthodox so Roman Catholics founded Russian Catholics for him, 1905.
- William Fuller didn't like Fire Baptized Holiness and founded Fire Baptized Holiness Church of God, 1908.
- James Wedgwood didn't like Roman Catholics and founded Liberal Catholics, 1917.
- Karel Farsky didn't like Roman Catholics and founded Czechoslovak Hussites, 1920.
- Watson Sorrow and Hugh Bowling didn't like Pentecostal Holiness and founded Congregational Holiness, 1921.
- Aimee Semple McPherson didn't like Assemblies of God and founded Foursquare, 1923.
- Union Bible College and Oregon Yearly Meeting didn't like Friends United and founded Central Friends and Evangelical Friends, 1926.
- Geevarghese Ivanos didn't like Eastern Orthodox so Roman Catholics founded Malankara Catholics for him, 1930.
- Baptist Bible Union didn't like other American Baptists and founded Regular Baptists, 1932.
- Seventh-Day Adventists didn't like Victor Houteff whose church got called Davidians, 1934.
- Herbert Armstrong didn't like Church of God (Seventh Day) and founded Grace Communion International ("Worldwide"), 1934.
- Gresham Machen didn't like other Presbyterians and founded Orthodox Presbyterians, 1936.
- Carl McIntire, Oliver Buswell, and Allan MacRae didn't like Orthodox Presbyterians and founded Bible Presbyterians, 1937.
- Louis Bauman and Charles Ashman didn't like German Baptists and founded Grace Brethren ("Charis"), 1939.
- Roman Catholics didn't like Carlos Duarte Costa whose church got called Brazilian Catholic Apostolic, 1945.
- Liberal Catholics didn't like other Liberal Catholics and founded Liberal Catholics International, 1947.
- Hilmer Sandine didn't like other Congregationalists and founded Conservative Congregational Christian Conference, 1948.
- Roman Catholics didn't like Michel Collin whose church got called Apostles of Infinite Love, 1951.
- Harry Johnson didn't like other Congregationalists and founded National Association of Congregational Christian Churches, 1955.
- Glenn Griffith didn't like Church of the Nazarene and founded Bible Missionary, 1955.
- Benjamin Roden didn't like other Davidians and founded Branch Davidians, 1955.
- Toma Darmo didn't like Church of the East and founded Ancient Church of the East, 1964.
- Chuck Smith didn't like Foursquare and founded Calvary Chapel, 1968.
- Marcel Lefebvre didn't like Roman Catholics and founded Society of Saint Pius X, 1970.
- North American Christian Convention didn't like Disciples of Christ and founded Independent Christians, 1971.
- Jack Williamson didn't like other Presbyterians and founded Presbyterian Church in America, 1973.
- William Kohn didn't like Missouri Synod Lutherans and founded Evangelical Lutherans, 1976.
- Clemente Dominguez y Gomez didn't like Roman Catholics and founded Palmarian Catholics, 1978.
- Calvary Chapel didn't like John Wimber whose church got called Vineyard, 1982.
- Clarence Kelly didn't like Society of Saint Pius X and founded Society of Saint Pius V, 1983.
- Francesco Ricossa didn't like Society of Saint Pius X and founded Institute of the Mother of Good Counsel, 1985.
- Alexander Murray didn't like Free Presbyterians and founded Associated Presbyterians, 1989.
- Roman Catholics didn't like George Stallings whose church got called African-American Catholics, 1990.
- David Bawden didn't like Roman Catholics and founded Conclavists, 1990.
- John Whitcomb didn't like other Grace Brethren and founded Conservative Grace Brethren, 1992.
- Lucian Pulvermacher didn't like Roman Catholics and founded True Catholics, 1998.
- Mike Bickle didn't like Vineyard and founded International House of Prayer, 1999.
- Free Church of Scotland didn't like Free Church Defence Association whose church got called Free Church of Scotland (Continuing), 2000.
- WordAlone Network didn't like Evangelical Lutherans and founded Lutheran Congregations, 2001.
- Robert Nemkovich didn't like Old Catholics and founded Polish National Catholics, 2003.
- Oscar Michaelli didn't like Roman Catholics and founded Catholic Apostolic Remnant, 2006.
- Paull Spring didn't like Evangelical Lutherans and founded North American Lutherans, 2010.
- Keith Boyette didn't like United Methodists and founded Global Methodists, 2022.
- Laurent Mbanda didn't like other Anglicans and founded Global Anglicans, 2025.
This leaves out movements, including both cults, and movements like evangelical and born-again; it also leaves out much that could be said (including lateral transfers, mergers, and dissolutions), but I'm trying to focus on schisms that are close to the trunk.
Saying it friendly, this view collapses when applied to itself.
Your statement that the last person is meaningless deflates to nothing instantly when the next person says you are meaningless.
Everyone actually believes in growth and progress, they can't help being in bodies that grow. The best independent thoughts get validated and resonated by other minds, which is what makes them great. Thank you for understanding.
That was a lot of absolute assertions, which I tend to reject as flatly as they are made, and from which I tend to stay away from using myself. I consider them the sign of an ego struggling to maintain its worldview and thus its own stability. I can't say that I do understand anything which you are asserting, but I'm glad you got it out of your system.
If you're looking to make and keep friends, you will never, ever find the truth. All innovative thought requires entering into disagreement with everyone on the face of the Earth. In every other case without exception you're simply concurring with something someone else has already said (probably a friend) or stating a triviality.
And yes, I'm also just getting this out of my system. Thank you for understanding.
Oh, I beg your pardon, Primate, that wasn't my intent.
The first one is (apparently) absolute to me because there are a number of positions that have this same collapse hatch. Here "In my view, adding yet more words to their voluminous and unending nonsense does nothing to push back the frontiers of knowledge" logically implies that your adding words does nothing either. Sometimes on fora like these I jump to the absolute voice to emphasize (what look like) very straightforward fallacies.
(I believe) There are exceptions to people believing in growth, they're called nihilists, often absolutism fails to include them. The general principle (I've observed) is that the answer to your concerns about philosophy and about similar concerns arising in science (formerly "natural philosophy") is validated by the principle of scientific method, particularly repeatability ("independent" verification). That method isn't about making friends, it really is the independent's method (IMHO).
And then what? Either the innovation dies with you or it resonates with others (logically). I have innovative thoughts all the time, whether from Self or from Other, and I test them and release many to the universe, regardless of what enemies I make.
So you're welcome and thank you, I appreciate your stark comparison of religious progress to that in science and philosophy. It inspires me to challenge you to thinking about getting that alignment between independent Self and interdependent Other. But you don't have to.
As I see it, virtually everyone ends up defending their own position, however they came to arrive at it. It has to do with the true nature of human consciousness. The only advancement comes when one thinks that maybe, just maybe, they might be wrong about something.
So when I examine closely exactly what people say without prompting...
I can see clearly that no, that's not what they're thinking about at all and no advancement is possible. To be blunt, my challenges are to get the handful that are capable to move to the next level. I try and try and it's shocking and disappointing how often I confirm the rarity of that.
Life would be much easier were I not compelled to try, and left others at peace in their own versions of reality where it all made sense to them, no matter how nonsensical it appeared from the outside.
And if you think what I'm saying does not make sense, perhaps you should consider the same.
It sounds like you judged that I wasn't thinking at all that your words inspired me and I offered a responsive challenge. Well, if you have more power than me to see clearly what I was thinking, that would indeed be innovative.
I discover that I'm wrong about something all the time. In my experience it usually doesn't happen at the hands of people who think they see, more clearly than I, what I think. But I could be wrong about that too.
I love going to next levels. Which level shall we go to? The one where I say something so innovative that it contradicts everything that came before? Probably not the one where I agree with you and merely echo your innovative view of what I think. Maybe the one where I achieve an indescribable spiritual transcendence? Maybe one where I believe both sides of a binary contradiction at the same time with the same meaning? I'm looking forward to it, whatever and however it is.
If I think what you're saying does make sense, what next? Oh wait, if it does make sense, I'm echoing, and, if it doesn't make sense, I'm failing to consider. Perfect Zen dilemma. Unbeing