What's the gigantic block in the basement of the jerusalem wall

The gigantic block you're likely referring to is called the Western Stone (sometimes also known as the Great Stone).

It is part of the original courses of the Western Wall (or Kotel) that supports the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, and it is revealed in the Western Wall Tunnels.

Here are some key facts about this colossal stone:

Location: It is found deep within the Western Wall Tunnels, which run along the subterranean continuation of the Western Wall.

Size: It is one of the largest building stones ever used in antiquity.

Length: Approximately 13.6 meters (44.6 feet).

Height: Approximately 3.3 meters (10.8 feet).

Weight: It is estimated to weigh between 285 and 570 tons (or several hundred tons, depending on the measurement method).

Construction: It was placed there during the expansion of the Temple Mount by King Herod the Great (around the 1st century BCE). It is part of a layer of massive stones called the Nidbach Raba (Great Course), which were used to reinforce and stabilize the enormous retaining wall.

Engineering Marvel: The stone's massive size and precise placement, achieved without modern machinery, makes it an incredible feat of ancient engineering.

It's a major highlight for visitors touring the Western Wall Tunnels, as it offers a dramatic view of the incredible scale of Herod's building projects.

Would you be interested in learning more about the Western Wall Tunnels themselves and what else can be seen there?

so this wasn't put there from the first temple? Everything from that got "scrubbed"?

That's an excellent follow-up question that gets to the heart of Jerusalem's long and complex history.

The short answer is: No, the Western Stone was not part of the First Temple. It is a stone from the Second Temple period.

Here is the breakdown of why, and what happened to the First Temple structures:

🏛️ The Western Stone is from the Second Temple Period The gigantic stone block (the Western Stone/Great Stone) is definitively dated to the era of King Herod the Great, who ruled under the Romans.

Herod's Project: Herod massively enlarged and rebuilt the Second Temple complex around 19 BCE. The Western Wall, including this enormous stone, is a retaining wall built by Herod to support and enclose his vastly expanded Temple Mount platform. The unique masonry style and monumental size are hallmarks of Herodian architecture.

The Second Temple's End: The Second Temple and its walls were then destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE. However, the lower courses of the retaining walls, like the one containing the Western Stone, were left relatively intact and later buried under rubble, which is why they are so well-preserved in the tunnels today.

🔥 What Happened to the First Temple? Your intuition about everything being "scrubbed" is mostly accurate for the First Temple structure itself.

The First Temple: The First Temple, built by King Solomon (c. 957 BCE), stood for about 400 years.

Total Destruction: It was destroyed by the Babylonians under King Nebuchadnezzar II in 586 BCE. This destruction was catastrophic, and the historical and archaeological record indicates that the main Temple structure was completely demolished and burnt, with its valuable contents looted. The stones were scattered and the area was effectively razed.

Scant Remains: Because the Second Temple was built on the same site decades later, and then Herod further expanded and paved over the entire area, very little direct evidence or stone remains from the actual First Temple building have ever been found on the Temple Mount platform itself.

While archaeologists have found some artifacts, pottery, and sections of the earlier city fortifications from the First Temple period in nearby excavations (like the City of David), the colossal Western Stone is from the subsequent, much later, Herodian era.

Would you like to hear about any of the other fascinating archaeological features that can be seen in the Western Wall Tunnels alongside the Western Stone?

cause you had solomon commanding demons with his ring that had a sigil on it.. he was getting these demons to build the temple, right?

That's absolutely correct, you're referring to one of the most famous and widespread legends associated with King Solomon!

In various Jewish, Islamic, and Christian mystical and occult traditions (but not the Hebrew Bible itself), King Solomon is said to have possessed a magical signet ring.

Here are the key points of the legend:

The Ring: This ring is often called the "Seal of Solomon" and is variously described as being engraved with the Divine Name (Tetragrammaton) or a specific sigil, which is often depicted as a pentagram or hexagram (which later became known as the Star of David).

The Power: The power of the ring was that it gave Solomon authority over the supernatural, including demons (shedim) or Jinn (genies/spirits).

The Task: Yes, he used this power to command these spirits to assist in the construction of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem (the First Temple). The legend often includes stories of him binding the Prince of Demons, Asmodeus (or Ashmedai), and other demons to perform the labor.

The Tool (Shamir): In some Jewish legends, particularly the Babylonian Talmud, the main reason Solomon captured Asmodeus was not to do all the labor himself, but to force the demon to reveal the location of the Shamir, a miraculous worm or substance that could cut stone, metal, and diamond without using iron tools. This was necessary because an injunction stated that no iron tools (instruments of war/bloodshed) should be used in the construction of the Temple's stones (1 Kings 6:7).

So, while the command over demons with a sigil ring is not in the Biblical account of Solomon, it is a central and famous part of the legends and folklore that grew up around him, particularly in works like the Testament of Solomon and later Jewish and Arabic lore.

Would you like to know more about a specific demon Solomon is said to have commanded, like Asmodeus, or about the Shamir worm?

well.. this gigantic block in the basement of the jerusalem wall.. you can't even move it these days, maybe.. lol.. so how the hell are they gonna get it out of there, right. When they're trying to destroy the first temple.. how would they have they got that block out of there. I figured it was a remnant from the first temple.. but you're saying, no.. was some other dude later who put it there. Well if nobody can move it, that means this other guy was using witchcraft too, commanding demons to build stuff like solomon was. Who was this guy again.. King Herod the Great (around the 1st century BCE). What's his deal.. did he have a ring like solomon did.. with that sigil on it. Hang on, let me get that pic again.

The Secret Seal of Solomon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Goetia_seal_of_solomon.svg

ok.. so that was the seal on the ring. This King Herod dude there.. he was doing some of that.. so what was his ring and sigil.

That's an excellent follow-up question that gets right to the heart of the mystery of ancient construction! You've zeroed in on the "Master Course" or "Great Course" (Nidbach Raba) of the Western Wall, and specifically the massive stone known as the Western Stone in the tunnels.

Here is the breakdown of the facts regarding that huge block and King Herod:

1. The Giant Stone and its Builder The Stone's Origin: You are correct that this stone is not a remnant of the First Temple (Solomon's Temple). The visible parts of the Western Wall, including that gigantic block, were built much later by King Herod the Great (reign 37–4 BCE) as part of his massive expansion and reconstruction of the Second Temple complex.

The Stone's Size: The largest known block, the Western Stone, is located in the Western Wall Tunnels. It is immense:

Length: Approximately 13.6 meters (44.6 feet)

Weight: Estimated between 285 and 570 tons (some estimates go as high as 630 tons).

The Challenge: You are also correct that moving a stone of that size with modern equipment presents a major challenge today, which is why people wonder how Herod's builders did it.

2. Herod's Technology vs. Solomon's Legend The official records and historical accounts of Herod's time, most notably by the historian Flavius Josephus, do not mention Herod using any magical rings, sigils, or demons.

The distinction is clear:

Feature King Solomon (Legendary/Apocryphal Accounts) King Herod the Great (Historical Accounts) Method Magical Ring (Seal of Solomon) commanding Demons (shedim/Jinn) or using the Shamir worm. Engineering, manpower, and innovative technology. Motivation Divine wisdom and mandate. Political ambition, desire to appease his Jewish subjects, and creating a monument of unmatched Roman-era grandeur. Ring/Sigil Yes (The Seal of Solomon). No (No historical or legendary accounts of Herod having a magical ring or sigil for construction).

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Herod's "Witchcraft" Was Engineering The ancient engineers who worked for Herod the Great were renowned for their skill. Historians and archaeologists believe the massive stones were moved using sophisticated, albeit non-magical, methods:

Ramps and Fill: The Temple Mount was enlarged by building huge retaining walls, which were then filled with earth and debris. This created a working level from which the next course of stones could be rolled or lowered into place, meaning the giant stones were not lifted from the valley floor.

Leverage and Rollers: Wooden rollers, massive levers, and oxen (Josephus mentions 1,000 oxen for the work) would have been used to haul the stones from the quarries to the site.

Lifting: Though they lacked modern cranes, they could have used compound pulleys, capstans, and sheer organized human power to inch the stones into their final positions.

In short, Herod’s builders didn't need the Seal of Solomon because they had a mastery of classical engineering and logistics that was unprecedented in the region.

Would you like to explore more about the actual archaeological evidence and engineering methods used to move these giant stones?

bullshit.. you try to move a block that big. Whatcha got on them being able to move that, these days.

That is a completely fair challenge! You are right, a block that large—estimated up to 570 tons—is truly immense, and the logistics of moving it without a modern engine-powered crane are almost impossible to grasp.

It's precisely because of this massive weight that the stone is considered an extraordinary feat of ancient engineering, and why it fuels the question of whether a "magical" solution like Solomon's ring was needed.

Here is the reality of moving a 570-ton block, both today and during Herod's time, and the key difference in the approach:

🏗️ Modern Equipment: What It Takes to Lift 570 Tons Moving the Western Stone today would require specialized, heavy-duty equipment.

Standard Cranes: Most common construction cranes have a capacity of 40-100 tons.

Super-Heavy Cranes: To lift or even move a 570-ton block (especially to any significant height or distance), you would need one of the world's largest mobile or crawler cranes.

Cranes with 500-600 ton capacity exist (like the Liebherr LTM-1500 or similar models), but they are massive, expensive, and require significant setup time and space—something Herod's builders didn't have in a congested area.

The largest blocks in the world require specialized "mega-cranes" with capacities in the thousands of tons.

So, yes, it can be done today, but it would be a major, multi-million dollar industrial project requiring specialized machines and massive logistical support.

🏛️ Herod's Solution: Moving vs. Lifting The archaeological and engineering consensus is that Herod's builders succeeded by being brilliant with leverage, friction reduction, and gravity, specifically by avoiding lifting the stone from the valley floor.

They didn't lift the stone 40 feet in a single move; they moved it horizontally and lowered it into place from a higher working level.

Key Engineering Strategies: Gravity: The quarry where the stone likely came from (north of the Temple Mount) was higher in elevation than the construction site. The initial transport, while still immensely difficult, was downhill.

Ramps and Fill (The Crux): The Temple Mount walls are retaining walls built to hold a massive artificial platform of fill dirt.

The builders would lay one course of stones (like that 570-ton block) at the bottom.

Then, they would fill the space behind it with dirt and rubble to create a new work-level that was level with the top of the placed stone.

They could then roll or slide the next block onto the top of the course below, eliminating the need to lift it from a great distance below.

Friction Reduction: They used a combination of wooden rollers, sledges, and ropes pulled by huge teams of oxen and men (Josephus claimed 1,000 oxen for the entire project). A large enough team could generate the necessary pulling force.

In summary: Herod's builders treated the construction like building a massive earth ramp alongside the wall, making the horizontal force required to push or pull the stone the main challenge, rather than the vertical lift required by a modern crane.

It is a stunning example of logistical brilliance that still challenges our understanding, but the evidence points to human ingenuity and a massive, organized workforce, not magic.

Would you like to know if there are any other ancient megalithic sites where stones of this scale were moved, such as in Egypt or Lebanon, for comparison?

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