If you seek only to justify your rage and ego - go ahead.
If it's true, it's justified. I've justified everything I've said thus far with logic and with Biblical passages, many of them. Just because you deny it doesn't make it false.
I will try my best to remain meek.
On this, I will cast judgment upon you. You won't be meek. You don't even know what it means. You will be prideful and antagonistic against God. You will demand He adhere to your whims, and not you adhere to Him. You will follow your own course, and fail in kind. Only in failure, of being broken, will you ever come to see the light of God. I have no control over your course. Only you do, in pursuit of current course, in needless misery, and defiance of God, through your own choices. I've given you the option, the knowledge to correct course. It's up to you to change. Free will, after all, is the only way we can be rightly judged. Your decisions are your own.
With all your boasting, you have 6 posts in here... You're such a "warrior of justice"... Perhaps I should delete 90% of my posts to be more like you?
Delete nothing. Even errors toward pursuit of truth are worthy to follow. And, again, you cast stones at me not knowing. Keep flinging, your stones do not hurt.
None of the verses gives you the right to be violent...None of the verses say that YOU should be violent.
It's rather remarkable how defiant people can be when presented with truth. I could tell you the sky is blue, present every logical, scientific, and observable fact to you, and you would stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes, and scream as loudly as possible, hoping the truth went away. That's not how truth works. It is ever present, ever judgeful, just as God, because they are the same and of the same. Denial of truth is denial of God. Not knowing one is to not know the other.
You are so prideful in your denials that you've missed the bigger picture. You have placed yourself above truth, above God, demanding both be subservient to you. In the place of God, there you dwell, claiming yourself to be God, ever boastful and prideful. In your height of folly, so too will you fall greatly. That is what awaits your course. I warn you, but, your actions are your own.
If you only knew the real battle is won through the truth, not by a sword, or simple arrogance...
I've attempted to explain to you, in detail, through logic and Biblical passages, that violence is not inherently wrong, that good people can be violent and be just, righteous, and adhere to God's commands. And yet, you still deny, because you place yourself above God. It's rather odd that you say "real battle is won through the truth", which is true, but then you wholly deny the truth. You claim to be righteous, but cut out every part of you which is righteous, and replace where you once were with hypocrisies and idols of Saturn.
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
You, again, intentionally misinterpret the Bible to support your own position. You're not acting like a Christian. You're acting like a child of the devil, who is the father of lies, the antithesis of God. You think the Bible can mean whatever you want it to mean. You demand God adhere to your own assertions, and not you to His.
Matthew 16:24-25 means precisely what I've been telling you. You can't pursue Jesus/God while prioritizing yourself above them, above truth. You have to accept when you're wrong, and adjust accordingly when you find out you erred. You can't learn when you're prideful, which you are. You can't admit wrong when you proclaim perfection, which you are. You can't improve when you think you're never wrong, which you are.
You must accept you've sinned, to know of your imperfections, and try to overcome them, to prioritize and pursue truth, to embody it, to come closer to God. To "take up one's cross" is to bear the burden that comes with pursuing truth, to pursuing perfection. to pursuing God. Sinning is easy. Perfection is hard, and for us it's impossible, but a cross we must bear. To "save their life will lose it" but "whoever loses their life for me will find it" literally means that life, for the sake of life, leads to ruin, but life, in pursuit of truth, in pursuit of God, will be saved (i.e. live). This is why, philosophically, we must prioritize truth above life. If we prioritize life above truth, we sacrifice truth and inevitably die; and is also what corrupted modern philosophy teaches, through various means, like with feminism (the inversion of the natural patriarchal order and the philosophical pursuits of men and women, of truth and life respectively). The Bible, explicitly and implicitly, many, many times, says that Jesus/God are truth incarnate, or that truth is Their will in this universe. Reread the Bible, and every time you see Jesus/God, replace their name with "truth", and the passages will make more sense. To deny truth, is to deny Jesus/God. Matthew 16:26 means that pursuing our own interests, our own power, our own greed, will result in ruin (our soul will be damned), but pursuing God, pursuing, truth, will save us.
Are you ready to die for Christianity, or live for your ego?
There's only one person here who knows what it means to be Christian, and to let go of ego. It's not you.
It's not like I wish for things to be the way they are. I don't burn with rage at the way things are, I simply try to find out what is. I've changed my mind many times, and some of them core philosophical and foundational beliefs, so that I can adhere closer to truth, even within the last few years. Why? Because I was wrong. Because I prioritize truth above myself. I let go of my ego. I am a servant of God, and I know exactly what that means.
This time it only took you 3 days to reply. You're getting better at this.
I am not reading all that ego-filled self-righteousness from you again... 3 sentences in your nonsense and "On this, I will cast judgment upon you." - ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. This honestly made me laugh!
You have repeatedly refused to address any of the Biblical passages or logical refutations on the failures of pacifism. To limit my social media use, I wait to reply to my notifications on one day, often waiting a week or two, doing it on a day where I have the free time to do it. Some of us can't spend our entire lives online. We have other priorities. This website, and most social media sites, facilitate long form interactions, because they don't delete old posts or comments. We can, at will, choose to come back to a conversation, or revive an old one, whenever we choose. But, back to the topic at hand:
Let's start at the beginning.
What, EXACTLY, are you arguing for? Do you advocate that good men, Christian men, never, ever, become violent, even to protect themselves, their children, their wives, their fellow Christians, or their neighbors?
I'm advocating that good men, Christian men, are absolutely called to be peaceful, when peace is called for, when peace is the best option. However, such men should, and are justified, to be violent against people who wish to corrupt, subvert, harm, and destroy them, their family, their people, or the truth itself.
To limit my social media use, I wait to reply to my notifications on one day, often waiting a week or two
Nice try. Then how come you replied to u/crusaderpepe yesterday? Did you forget that I replied to you yesterday?
Also, nice try to add a comment 15 days after you were demolished in this discussion.
What, EXACTLY, are you arguing for?
See? You don't even bother to read what I already provided in this conversation. Go back to the start of this comment thread and read it again - it's all there already.
Nice try to make yourself look good by adding the last comment after 15 days, just in time when you shared it with u/crusaderpepe... You two belong to each other.
Both of you say you're Christian, but none of you actually follows the Bible.
If you don't remember the conversation, go back and read it. You put forth another claim now, but I will remind you of what you actually said in the discussion:
Peace, for the sake of peace, is a failed philosophy, and as such, is not what Jesus/God argues. Any Biblical passage which you posit to the contrary is a perversion of scripture (i.e. of the devil).
Any Biblical passage I post (I fixed it for your benefit) is "from the devil"? How many Biblical passages are from the devil then? Was he adding passages? I wasn't even aware...
You make me laugh...
I am 99% sure that u/apexveritas won't reach this far in my comment, so that's written only to anyone, who has gotten so far in the comments.
38 You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also; 40 if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well;…
God bless you, believers in peace!
None of us can change the word of God in Revelation, so there is no point in going against the goats. Our work is to gather the sheep and protect the sheep!
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
It's the truth. You're free to disagree at your leisure, but disagreement with truth doesn't change it. I use social media how it suites me, not how you want me to.
Then how come you replied to u/crusaderpepe yesterday? Did you forget that I replied to you yesterday?
I sometimes will go back to specific discussions because I found them interesting. However, the bulk of replies I get are answered all at once, in one day.
Also, nice try to add a comment 15 days after you were demolished in this discussion.
Just because you disagree doesn't mean I was "demolished". That's not how truth works. You again reveal that you place yourself above truth, above God, thinking that anything that escapes your lips is sacrosanct, above challenge, truth by its very nature. Wrong! That's hubris! It isn't just unChristian, it's anti-Christian. You deny your own faults and place yourself above God. If you continue to act and believe in this way, you are damned.
See? You don't even bother to read what I already provided in this conversation. Go back to the start of this comment thread and read it again - it's all there already.
I'm well aware of what you already posted. I was wanting you to give more nuance and explanation, out of the remote possibility that you might not believe what you've been arguing for this entire time. Thus far, you've unabashedly argued that Christians should be peaceful, no matter what. You've not refined that argument once in this entire "debate".
Any Biblical passage I post (I fixed it for your benefit) is "from the devil"? How many Biblical passages are from the devil then? Was he adding passages? I wasn't even aware...
You do know that satan quotes scripture, right? He does so to confuse Christians, to lead us astray with false interpretations, so he can worm his way into our lives and destroy us. A false interpretation of scripture is a lie, a falsehood, and is of the devil, and requires rebuke.
Furthermore, the passages you quoted were taken out of context, and didn't mean what you suggested they meant. The Bible, Jesus, nor God argue for Christians to be peaceful no matter what. I provided numerous alternative explanations for the passages you quoted, and provided context to them, and then posted numerous more passages which directly refute your assertion that God and Jesus demands we be peaceful no matter what.
I am 99% sure that u/apexveritas won't reach this far in my comment, so that's written only to anyone, who has gotten so far in the comments.
Wrong. Your hubris shows itself again. Predict the future and fail.
38 You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also; 40 if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well;…
Wait... You claim I didn't read what you wrote, and yet you try to quote Matthew 5:38-40 again? You flaming hypocrite.
I already disproved that passage was arguing for pacifism. I posted 2 (out of many times many) links which directly refute what you're arguing, and numerous alternative explanations for that passage. Go up a few comments and reread (look for the blue links). But, here, let me post them for you again:
None of us can change the word of God in Revelation, so there is no point in going against the goats. Our work is to gather the sheep and protect the sheep!
On this, we agree. The word of God is truth itself. Truth is immutable, it doesn't change. Nothing we say contrary to it will change it. Logic, the mathematical rules, the scientific rules, the constants of the universe, none of them change. As an aside, logic is the one way we can divine truth with 100% certainty, and sound logic doesn't change either. What's true is true, and will always be true. This is why God wins, and satan loses. God is truth, and satan is lies and falsehoods. Victory can only be attained by alignment with truth (God).
Also, I find it ironic that you said what you did in the 2nd sentence, as "protect" necessarily requires that good men sometimes utilize violence to protect what we love, what is good and truthful.
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
I'm not sure if you're misquoting scripture again. In the chance that you are...
That passage doesn't mean that faith alone is enough. Works, by themselves, aren't enough, because as mortal, finite, imperfect beings we're all sinful and fall short of the worthiness of God. This is why Jesus had to sacrifice Himself for our salvation. The Bible, numerous times, says that faith without works is dead, that it's not enough. We, as Christians, if we have faith, should be doing works as well, in accordance with God, for God, because God is with us. Here's some passages that talk about it:
James 2:14-26
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
Titus 2:7-8
7 In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness 8 and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.
1 Corinthians 4:2
4 who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God.
2 Corinthians 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
Matthew 16:24-25
24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it.
1 Corinthians 3:10-15
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. 9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me.
If it's true, it's justified. I've justified everything I've said thus far with logic and with Biblical passages, many of them. Just because you deny it doesn't make it false.
On this, I will cast judgment upon you. You won't be meek. You don't even know what it means. You will be prideful and antagonistic against God. You will demand He adhere to your whims, and not you adhere to Him. You will follow your own course, and fail in kind. Only in failure, of being broken, will you ever come to see the light of God. I have no control over your course. Only you do, in pursuit of current course, in needless misery, and defiance of God, through your own choices. I've given you the option, the knowledge to correct course. It's up to you to change. Free will, after all, is the only way we can be rightly judged. Your decisions are your own.
Delete nothing. Even errors toward pursuit of truth are worthy to follow. And, again, you cast stones at me not knowing. Keep flinging, your stones do not hurt.
It's rather remarkable how defiant people can be when presented with truth. I could tell you the sky is blue, present every logical, scientific, and observable fact to you, and you would stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes, and scream as loudly as possible, hoping the truth went away. That's not how truth works. It is ever present, ever judgeful, just as God, because they are the same and of the same. Denial of truth is denial of God. Not knowing one is to not know the other.
You are so prideful in your denials that you've missed the bigger picture. You have placed yourself above truth, above God, demanding both be subservient to you. In the place of God, there you dwell, claiming yourself to be God, ever boastful and prideful. In your height of folly, so too will you fall greatly. That is what awaits your course. I warn you, but, your actions are your own.
I've attempted to explain to you, in detail, through logic and Biblical passages, that violence is not inherently wrong, that good people can be violent and be just, righteous, and adhere to God's commands. And yet, you still deny, because you place yourself above God. It's rather odd that you say "real battle is won through the truth", which is true, but then you wholly deny the truth. You claim to be righteous, but cut out every part of you which is righteous, and replace where you once were with hypocrisies and idols of Saturn.
You, again, intentionally misinterpret the Bible to support your own position. You're not acting like a Christian. You're acting like a child of the devil, who is the father of lies, the antithesis of God. You think the Bible can mean whatever you want it to mean. You demand God adhere to your own assertions, and not you to His.
Matthew 16:24-25 means precisely what I've been telling you. You can't pursue Jesus/God while prioritizing yourself above them, above truth. You have to accept when you're wrong, and adjust accordingly when you find out you erred. You can't learn when you're prideful, which you are. You can't admit wrong when you proclaim perfection, which you are. You can't improve when you think you're never wrong, which you are.
You must accept you've sinned, to know of your imperfections, and try to overcome them, to prioritize and pursue truth, to embody it, to come closer to God. To "take up one's cross" is to bear the burden that comes with pursuing truth, to pursuing perfection. to pursuing God. Sinning is easy. Perfection is hard, and for us it's impossible, but a cross we must bear. To "save their life will lose it" but "whoever loses their life for me will find it" literally means that life, for the sake of life, leads to ruin, but life, in pursuit of truth, in pursuit of God, will be saved (i.e. live). This is why, philosophically, we must prioritize truth above life. If we prioritize life above truth, we sacrifice truth and inevitably die; and is also what corrupted modern philosophy teaches, through various means, like with feminism (the inversion of the natural patriarchal order and the philosophical pursuits of men and women, of truth and life respectively). The Bible, explicitly and implicitly, many, many times, says that Jesus/God are truth incarnate, or that truth is Their will in this universe. Reread the Bible, and every time you see Jesus/God, replace their name with "truth", and the passages will make more sense. To deny truth, is to deny Jesus/God. Matthew 16:26 means that pursuing our own interests, our own power, our own greed, will result in ruin (our soul will be damned), but pursuing God, pursuing, truth, will save us.
There's only one person here who knows what it means to be Christian, and to let go of ego. It's not you.
It's not like I wish for things to be the way they are. I don't burn with rage at the way things are, I simply try to find out what is. I've changed my mind many times, and some of them core philosophical and foundational beliefs, so that I can adhere closer to truth, even within the last few years. Why? Because I was wrong. Because I prioritize truth above myself. I let go of my ego. I am a servant of God, and I know exactly what that means.
What have you changed your mind on lately?
This time it only took you 3 days to reply. You're getting better at this.
I am not reading all that ego-filled self-righteousness from you again... 3 sentences in your nonsense and "On this, I will cast judgment upon you." - ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. This honestly made me laugh!
Thank you for making me laugh!
You have repeatedly refused to address any of the Biblical passages or logical refutations on the failures of pacifism. To limit my social media use, I wait to reply to my notifications on one day, often waiting a week or two, doing it on a day where I have the free time to do it. Some of us can't spend our entire lives online. We have other priorities. This website, and most social media sites, facilitate long form interactions, because they don't delete old posts or comments. We can, at will, choose to come back to a conversation, or revive an old one, whenever we choose. But, back to the topic at hand:
Let's start at the beginning.
What, EXACTLY, are you arguing for? Do you advocate that good men, Christian men, never, ever, become violent, even to protect themselves, their children, their wives, their fellow Christians, or their neighbors?
I'm advocating that good men, Christian men, are absolutely called to be peaceful, when peace is called for, when peace is the best option. However, such men should, and are justified, to be violent against people who wish to corrupt, subvert, harm, and destroy them, their family, their people, or the truth itself.
Nice try. Then how come you replied to u/crusaderpepe yesterday? Did you forget that I replied to you yesterday?
Also, nice try to add a comment 15 days after you were demolished in this discussion.
See? You don't even bother to read what I already provided in this conversation. Go back to the start of this comment thread and read it again - it's all there already.
Nice try to make yourself look good by adding the last comment after 15 days, just in time when you shared it with u/crusaderpepe... You two belong to each other.
Both of you say you're Christian, but none of you actually follows the Bible.
If you don't remember the conversation, go back and read it. You put forth another claim now, but I will remind you of what you actually said in the discussion:
Any Biblical passage I post (I fixed it for your benefit) is "from the devil"? How many Biblical passages are from the devil then? Was he adding passages? I wasn't even aware...
You make me laugh...
I am 99% sure that u/apexveritas won't reach this far in my comment, so that's written only to anyone, who has gotten so far in the comments.
God bless you, believers in peace!
None of us can change the word of God in Revelation, so there is no point in going against the goats. Our work is to gather the sheep and protect the sheep!
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
It's the truth. You're free to disagree at your leisure, but disagreement with truth doesn't change it. I use social media how it suites me, not how you want me to.
I sometimes will go back to specific discussions because I found them interesting. However, the bulk of replies I get are answered all at once, in one day.
Just because you disagree doesn't mean I was "demolished". That's not how truth works. You again reveal that you place yourself above truth, above God, thinking that anything that escapes your lips is sacrosanct, above challenge, truth by its very nature. Wrong! That's hubris! It isn't just unChristian, it's anti-Christian. You deny your own faults and place yourself above God. If you continue to act and believe in this way, you are damned.
I'm well aware of what you already posted. I was wanting you to give more nuance and explanation, out of the remote possibility that you might not believe what you've been arguing for this entire time. Thus far, you've unabashedly argued that Christians should be peaceful, no matter what. You've not refined that argument once in this entire "debate".
You do know that satan quotes scripture, right? He does so to confuse Christians, to lead us astray with false interpretations, so he can worm his way into our lives and destroy us. A false interpretation of scripture is a lie, a falsehood, and is of the devil, and requires rebuke.
Furthermore, the passages you quoted were taken out of context, and didn't mean what you suggested they meant. The Bible, Jesus, nor God argue for Christians to be peaceful no matter what. I provided numerous alternative explanations for the passages you quoted, and provided context to them, and then posted numerous more passages which directly refute your assertion that God and Jesus demands we be peaceful no matter what.
Wrong. Your hubris shows itself again. Predict the future and fail.
Wait... You claim I didn't read what you wrote, and yet you try to quote Matthew 5:38-40 again? You flaming hypocrite.
I already disproved that passage was arguing for pacifism. I posted 2 (out of many times many) links which directly refute what you're arguing, and numerous alternative explanations for that passage. Go up a few comments and reread (look for the blue links). But, here, let me post them for you again:
https://www.gotquestions.org/turn-other-cheek.html
https://www.thebubble.org.uk/culture/philosophy-religion/the-path-of-most-resistance-what-does-it-mean-to-turn-the-other-cheek/
On this, we agree. The word of God is truth itself. Truth is immutable, it doesn't change. Nothing we say contrary to it will change it. Logic, the mathematical rules, the scientific rules, the constants of the universe, none of them change. As an aside, logic is the one way we can divine truth with 100% certainty, and sound logic doesn't change either. What's true is true, and will always be true. This is why God wins, and satan loses. God is truth, and satan is lies and falsehoods. Victory can only be attained by alignment with truth (God).
Also, I find it ironic that you said what you did in the 2nd sentence, as "protect" necessarily requires that good men sometimes utilize violence to protect what we love, what is good and truthful.
I'm not sure if you're misquoting scripture again. In the chance that you are...
That passage doesn't mean that faith alone is enough. Works, by themselves, aren't enough, because as mortal, finite, imperfect beings we're all sinful and fall short of the worthiness of God. This is why Jesus had to sacrifice Himself for our salvation. The Bible, numerous times, says that faith without works is dead, that it's not enough. We, as Christians, if we have faith, should be doing works as well, in accordance with God, for God, because God is with us. Here's some passages that talk about it:
James 2:14-26
Titus 2:7-8
1 Corinthians 4:2
2 Corinthians 5:10
Matthew 16:24-25
1 Corinthians 3:10-15