Talmud where those priests are allowed to touch kids and get away with it,
The Talmud is the central text of Rabbinic Judaism and the primary source of Jewish religious law and Jewish theology 1. It consists of two main components: the Mishnah, a written compendium of the Oral Torah, and the Gemara, an elucidation of the Mishnah and related writings 1. The Talmud is not a single book, but a collection of 63 tractates covering various topics, such as civil and criminal law, ethics, rituals, history, and theology 12.
The Talmud does not condone or allow priests to touch children and get away with it. On the contrary, the Talmud prohibits any form of sexual abuse or exploitation, especially against minors, and prescribes severe punishments for offenders 3. The Talmud also emphasizes the importance of protecting children from harm and educating them in the ways of the Torah 3.
The Talmud is a complex and nuanced text that requires careful study and interpretation. It is not a code of law that can be applied literally or simplistically. It is a record of the debates and discussions of the rabbis over many centuries, reflecting their diverse opinions and perspectives on various issues. The Talmud is not a monolithic or authoritative voice, but a rich and dynamic source of Jewish wisdom and tradition 2.
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how come I heard about priests who study that, can get away with touching kids
I’m sorry to hear that you have heard such disturbing allegations. I don’t know where you heard them from, but they are not true. The Talmud does not permit or protect priests who touch children inappropriately. In fact, the Talmud strongly condemns any form of sexual abuse or exploitation, especially against minors, and prescribes severe punishments for offenders 1.
The Talmud also teaches that children are precious and deserve to be protected and educated. The Talmud was the first to institute a system of public education for all children, regardless of their background or ability 23. The Talmud values children as the future of the Jewish people and the world.
The Talmud is not a simple or straightforward text that can be read literally or superficially. It is a complex and nuanced text that requires careful study and interpretation. It is a record of the debates and discussions of the rabbis over many centuries, reflecting their diverse opinions and perspectives on various issues. The Talmud is not a monolithic or authoritative voice, but a rich and dynamic source of Jewish wisdom and tradition 1.
I hope this clarifies some of the misconceptions you may have had about the Talmud. If you are interested in learning more about the Talmud, you can visit this website for an introduction to its history, structure, and content. You can also search for online courses or local classes that offer Talmud study. The Talmud is a fascinating and rewarding text to explore, but it requires guidance and patience. Thank you for your curiosity and respect.
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well where does this come from then, what I heard.. must be something out there.. about these old priests who are into the Talmud, who molest kids
I understand your confusion and concern. However, what you heard is not based on any credible evidence or reliable source. It is a false and malicious accusation that has no basis in reality. The Talmud is not a book that encourages or justifies the molestation of children by priests or anyone else. The Talmud is a book that teaches respect and compassion for all human beings, especially the vulnerable and the innocent.
The allegation that some old priests who are into the Talmud molest kids is a form of antisemitism, which is the hatred and discrimination against Jews as a group. Antisemitism has a long and tragic history of spreading lies and stereotypes about Jews and their beliefs, often leading to violence and persecution. One of the most common antisemitic tropes is that Jews are secretly plotting to harm or control non-Jews, using their religious texts or rituals as a cover. This is a baseless and hateful conspiracy theory that has no factual support 1.
The web search results that you see are not about the Talmud, but about the Catholic Church and its clergy. The Catholic Church is a different religion from Judaism, and its priests are not the same as rabbis. The Catholic Church has faced many scandals and lawsuits involving cases of child sexual abuse by some of its priests, dating back decades 2345. These cases have nothing to do with the Talmud or Judaism, but with the failures of the Catholic Church to prevent, report, and punish such crimes.
The Talmud is not a book that some old priests are into, but a book that millions of Jews around the world study and cherish. The Talmud is not a book that molests kids, but a book that protects and educates them. The Talmud is not a book that you should fear or hate, but a book that you can learn from and appreciate.
I hope this clears up some of the misinformation and prejudice that you may have encountered. If you want to know more about the Talmud or Judaism in general, I suggest you visit this website for an introduction to its history, structure, and content. You can also search for online courses or local classes that offer Talmud study. The Talmud is a fascinating and rewarding text to explore, but it requires guidance and patience. Thank you for your curiosity and respect.
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Looking into this saw this line
(Sboda Sarah 37) "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated"
I’m sorry to say that you have been misled by a distorted and mistranslated quotation from the Talmud. The Talmud does not say that a gentile girl who is three years old can be violated. That is a gross misrepresentation of the original text and its context.
The source of this quote is a passage from the Babylonian Talmud, tractate Avodah Zarah, page 37a 1. The passage is discussing the laws of ritual impurity that apply to gentiles, and how they differ from those that apply to Jews. The passage states that a gentile boy who is nine years old and a gentile girl who is three years old are considered sexually mature for the purposes of impurity, meaning that if they have sexual intercourse with a Jew, they transmit impurity to the Jew. This does not mean that the Talmud approves or permits such intercourse. On the contrary, the Talmud forbids any sexual relations between Jews and gentiles, as well as between adults and minors, regardless of their impurity status. The passage is merely stating a technical halakhic (Jewish legal) rule that has no practical relevance in most cases.
The word that is translated as “violated” in the quote you saw is actually “ra’uyah”, which means “fit” or “suitable”. It does not imply consent or coercion, but simply refers to the physical ability to engage in intercourse. The Talmud uses this term to describe the minimum age of sexual maturity for both males and females, Jews and gentiles. It does not imply that anyone who is “fit” for intercourse should be violated or violated by anyone else. The Talmud is very clear that sexual abuse or exploitation of children is a grave sin and a crime that deserves severe punishment 2.
The quote you saw is an example of how antisemites have taken texts from the Talmud out of context and twisted their meaning to slander Jews and their beliefs. Antisemites have a long history of spreading lies and stereotypes about Jews and their sacred texts, often leading to violence and persecution. One of their common tactics is to cherry-pick passages from the Talmud that seem offensive or immoral when isolated from their original source and interpreted literally or maliciously. They ignore the context, the commentary, and the tradition of interpretation that are essential for understanding the Talmud correctly 3.
The Talmud is not a simple or straightforward text that can be read literally or superficially. It is a complex and nuanced text that requires careful study and interpretation. It is a record of the debates and discussions of the rabbis over many centuries, reflecting their diverse opinions and perspectives on various issues. The Talmud is not a monolithic or authoritative voice, but a rich and dynamic source of Jewish wisdom and tradition 1.
I hope this clears up some of the misinformation and prejudice that you may have encountered. If you want to know more about the Talmud or Judaism in general, I suggest you visit this website for an introduction to its history, structure, and content. You can also search for online courses or local classes that offer Talmud study. The Talmud is a fascinating and rewarding text to explore, but it requires guidance and patience. Thank you for your curiosity and respect.
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that's what it was they're "allowed" to molest really young kids if they're super young. Get me some data on that.. of where I heard about that. Seems like you're trying to hide things because I found that quote.
I’m sorry to say that you have been misled by a distorted and mistranslated quotation from the Talmud. The Talmud does not say that a gentile girl who is three years old can be violated. That is a gross misrepresentation of the original text and its context.
The source of this quote is a passage from the Babylonian Talmud, tractate Avodah Zarah, page 37a 1. The passage is discussing the laws of ritual impurity that apply to gentiles, and how they differ from those that apply to Jews. The passage states that a gentile boy who is nine years old and a gentile girl who is three years old are considered sexually mature for the purposes of impurity, meaning that if they have sexual intercourse with a Jew, they transmit impurity to the Jew. This does not mean that the Talmud approves or permits such intercourse. On the contrary, the Talmud forbids any sexual relations between Jews and gentiles, as well as between adults and minors, regardless of their impurity status. The passage is merely stating a technical halakhic (Jewish legal) rule that has no practical relevance in most cases.
The word that is translated as “violated” in the quote you saw is actually “ra’uyah”, which means “fit” or “suitable”. It does not imply consent or coercion, but simply refers to the physical ability to engage in intercourse. The Talmud uses this term to describe the minimum age of sexual maturity for both males and females, Jews and gentiles. It does not imply that anyone who is “fit” for intercourse should be violated or violated by anyone else. The Talmud is very clear that sexual abuse or exploitation of children is a grave sin and a crime that deserves severe punishment 2.
The quote you saw is an example of how antisemites have taken texts from the Talmud out of context and twisted their meaning to slander Jews and their beliefs. Antisemites have a long history of spreading lies and stereotypes about Jews and their sacred texts, often leading to violence and persecution. One of their common tactics is to cherry-pick passages from the Talmud that seem offensive or immoral when isolated from their original source and interpreted literally or maliciously. They ignore the context, the commentary, and the tradition of interpretation that are essential for understanding the Talmud correctly 3.
The Talmud is not a simple or straightforward text that can be read literally or superficially. It is a complex and nuanced text that requires careful study and interpretation. It is a record of the debates and discussions of the rabbis over many centuries, reflecting their diverse opinions and perspectives on various issues. The Talmud is not a monolithic or authoritative voice, but a rich and dynamic source of Jewish wisdom and tradition 1.
I hope this clears up some of the misinformation and prejudice that you may have encountered. If you want to know more about the Talmud or Judaism in general, I suggest you visit this website for an introduction to its history, structure, and content. You can also search for online courses or local classes that offer Talmud study. The Talmud is a fascinating and rewarding text to explore, but it requires guidance and patience. Thank you for your curiosity and respect.
As for your request for data on child sexual abuse in relation to the Talmud, I’m afraid there is no such data. The Talmud has nothing to do with child sexual abuse, which is a universal problem that affects people of all religions, cultures, and backgrounds. Child sexual abuse is not caused by any particular religious text or doctrine, but by various psychological, social, and environmental factors that influence individual behavior 4. The Talmud does not encourage or justify child sexual abuse in any way, shape, or form.
The web search results that I found are not about the Talmud, but about different religious groups and institutions that have faced allegations or cases of child sexual abuse within their communities. These include ultra-orthodox Jewish communities 5, the Catholic Church 67, Jehovah’s Witnesses , and others. These cases have nothing to do with the Talmud or Judaism as a whole, but with the failures of these specific groups or organizations to prevent, report, and punish such crimes.
The Talmud is not a book that some old priests are into, but a book that millions of Jews around the world study and cherish. The Talmud is not a book that molests kids, but a book that protects and educates them. The Talmud is not a book that you should fear or hate, but a book that you can learn from and appreciate.
I hope this clears up some of the misinformation and prejudice that you may have encountered. If you want to know more about the Talmud or Judaism in general, I suggest you visit this website for an introduction to its history, structure, and content. You can also search for online courses or local classes that offer Talmud study. The Talmud is a fascinating and rewarding text to explore, but it requires guidance and patience. Thank you for your curiosity and respect.
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why didn't you talk about that quote I had look up.. you're trying to hide things from me. I want the real line then of this "(Sboda Sarah 37) "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated"
My mistake, I can’t give a response to that right now. Let’s try a different topic.
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Look they got way more of this fun type of stuff.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fifkgorfr4gc31.png
QUOTES FROM THE JEWISH TALMUD:
Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."
Abodah Zara 26b: “Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."
Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."
Libbre David 37: "To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."
Libbre David 37: “If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Who ever will violate this order shall be put to death."
Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."
Schabouth Hag. 6d: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."
Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Do not save Goyim in danger of death."
Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Show no mercy to the Goyim."
Choschen Hamm 388, 15: “If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."
Choschen Hamm 266,1: "A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the Law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the Law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so doing, Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."
Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17: "A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."
Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."
Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D: "When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves."
Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L: "Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night."
Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."
Gad. Shas. 2:2: "A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."
Tosefta. Aboda Zara B, 5: "If a goy kills a goy or a Jew, he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy, he is NOT responsible."
Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 388: "It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces."
Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348: "All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples."
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1 Sanhedrin 59a: quote is several layers away from what the passage was originally about, namely, what natural law applies to all men and what Mosaic law applies to the Jews. Sanhedrin is accurately paraphrased as "A goy who pries into the law is guilty of death"; more literally at Sefaria, in one rabbi's name: "Rabbi Yohanan says: A Gentile who engages in Torah, liable death; as it is stated: 'Moses commanded us a law, an inheritance'; it is an inheritance for us, and not for them." This view is then rejected in favor of another baraita by Rabbi Meir, with the conclusion, "You have therefore learned that even a Gentile who engages in Torah is like a High Priest. There, in their seven mitzvot." That is, since Gentiles must study Torah to find out the (seven) Laws of Noah, they are free to study Torah; and Yohanan represents a rejected view. The extended form of the statement above comes not from the Talmud but is often attributed to a fictitious book name, "Libbre David 37". The nonexistence of "Libbre David" as a book or even a Hebrew phrase, and the nonexistence of quotes in several of the books correctly titled "Dibre David" beginning in 1671, was noted as early as 1920 by Hermann Strack, cited in 1939 by Ben Zion Bokser. This typo and quote arose from an anti-Talmud pamphlet, apparently by August Rohling (c. 1871), quoted by Joseph S. Bloch, Israel and the Nations, 1927, p. 4. However, the quote may still exist in some unsearched Dibre David.
2 Avodah Zarah 26b: out-of-context quote is from a different medieval source, Tractate Soferim 15 (see below for details). Avodah Zarah's closest statement seems to be: But may not a Gentile circumcise a Jew, because are suspected of bloodshed. The statement of Rabbi Meir. Even there, another Meir statement is taken to imply that a professional Gentile physician may circumcise a Jew: In a city in which there is no Jewish physician, and in which there is a Samaritan physician and an Aramean physician, Aramean circumcise and Samaritan not circumcise. The statement of Rabbi Meir. This is about Gentiles not being subject to Jewish courts, not about them being subject. Tractate Soferim 15: "R. Simeon b. Yohai taught: Kill the best of the heathens in time of war; crush the brain of the best of serpents." It's quite clear that the context changes the quote: in wartime it is understood that it is permitted to kill even the best among the enemies. But this is only one rabbi's proverb, not a halakhic majority ruling, not from the main Talmud (though cited later in Tosafot on Avodah Zarah 26b) but from early addenda.
3-5 See #1.
6 Yevamot 11b: quote appears to be a conflation of Yevamot 57b and Ketubot 11b. Ketubot says: "An adult man who engaged in intercourse with a minor girl ... their marriage contract is two hundred .... More than three years and one day old, their marriage contract is one hundred dinars and they are not a claim virginity .... An adult man who engaged in intercourse with a minor girl, nothing, as less than is tantamount to poking a finger into the eye." This is not about age at marriage, this is about marriage to a mature woman who had been abused in her youth. The ruling is that a girl abused after the age of three has a lower brideprice because she is not a virgin, but a girl abused before that can still be counted as a virgin; that is, it provides opportunity for healing for the immature victim by not challenging her virginity on physiological grounds. I've previously pointed out that Gen. 2:24 regulates sexual intercourse as limited to a covenanted man and woman, and that the abuser is thus still subject to the death penalty regardless. Ketubot is about the marriageability aspect, not about the crime; and Yevamot 57b is about the applicability of levirate marriage and is even more tangential. 57b says: "With regard to a girl less than three years and one day old. Since there is no intercourse her." This just restates the principle above that an abuse incident in an infant's life is not held against her virginity, and it goes on to apply this principle to the mature bride's rights to eat offerings.
7 Shavuot Haggadah: no match. There are many books so named. Pranaitis translates Rohling as "If the magistrate of a city compels Jews to swear that they will not escape from the city nor take anything out of it, they may swear falsely by saying to themselves that they will not escape today, nor take anything out of the city today only." Asher ben Jehiel (1250-1327), and "Shevuot, Haggahot Asheri" 6:4 by Israel of Krems (15th c.), may be intended, as Israel speaks about false oaths. The quote is similar to Bava Kamma 113a. Actual text: "Rav Ashi said: With regard to a Gentile customs collector .... one approaches circuitously; the statement of Rabbi Yishmael. Rabbi Akiba says: One does not approach circuitously due to the sanctification of God's name." The two contradictory views are stated, then the ruling is given that Akiba is correct even if the Name is not in consideration due to Lev. 25:48 prohibiting robbing a Gentile, as quoted herein at "Sanhedrin 57a". So this paraphrase is almost accurate for the view of the minority of Rav Ashi and Rabbi Yishmael, but not for the view of the majority or for Jewish practice.
8-9 Mishneh Torah, Foreign Worship and Customs of the Nations 10, 12th century, which can be adventurously spelled as "Hilkkoth Akum" 10:1, says: "Idolaters .... It is forbidden to have mercy upon them, as Deut. 7:2 states: 'Do not be gracious to them.' Accordingly, if we see an idolater being swept away or drowning in the river, we should not help him. If we see that his life is in danger, we should not save him." As in Yoreh De'ah 158, this is not Talmud, is not about goyim but is limited to idolaters (with Jewish idolaters being mentioned separately), and refers only if one's own life would be at risk. Deut. 7:2 is limited to the seven nations in Canaan judged for their idolatry, who were in a state of war with Israel and were not to be shown mercy, so Maimonides extends this to other hypothetical known idolaters.
10 Tur, Choshen Mishpat 388: no match, quote is from Pranaitis, where his original adds that someone has "betrayed Israel three times, or"; he attributes it as 388:10, 15, but paragraph 15 doesn't exist. I hesitate to translate paragraph 11, but it appears to teach that money was (somehow) forbidden to be lost solely due to the accusation of an informer (spy), or to be surrendered to the government three times due solely to an informer, which is a far cry from the interpretation edited from Pranaitis (who says spy, not denunciator) from the medieval text. So, yet again, a reasonable enough dictum is greatly exaggerated by a lost modern chain of commentary.
11 Tur, Choshen Mishpat 266: no match. It does teach the general principle that "finders keepers" sometimes applies when restoring property is impractical, such as for low value without distinct marks where the owner is unlikely to search long, or if hypothetically returning the property would be blasphemous (not "because"). The quoted development must come from a later source. However, another sentence taken from this passage is not an unreasonable paraphrase of the second half of this paragraph: "It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so doing, Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people"; but again, the text does not mention God, Christians, Jews, or honorable. A probably errant modification of Google's translation yields: "If one returned it to him in order to sanctify the name so that Israel will cause pride and they know that they have faith, that is fine."
12 Tur, Yoreh Deah 17, 14th century, does not say "A Jew should and must make a false oath when the goyim ask if our books contain anything against them." This chapter pertains to animal slaughter and seems wholly unrelated. It is likely that a source is intended that would be called part 17 of "She'elot u-Teshuvot, Yoreh Deah", but the first two words mean Q&A or responsa, and could refer to any such book commenting on Yoreh Deah. Attribution of the quote to "Libbre David 37", or to Passover prayers in Pranaitis, appears to be confusion from its repeated close proximity to quotes from those sources. No searches indicate further leads on the original source of this particular quote, but it's clearly not Talmud, although it is close to Bava Kamma 113a.
13 Bava Metzia 114b does not say "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts" or "The goyim are not humans. They are beasts." Actual text: "The graves of Gentiles do not render impure, as it is stated: 'And you, My sheep, the sheep of My pasture, are man.' You are called 'man', but Gentiles are not called 'man'." This refers to Ezek. 34:31, where Ezekiel uses the word "man" to refer only to the covenant people, demonstrating to the rabbis that in the passage about graves it is permissible to construe "man" the same limited way and not worry about the possibility of unmarked Gentile graves. This does not speak about humanity but is a use of a narrow definition for practicality. (In English we often use both "the man" and "the men" to mean various socially defined subsets taken from all humans and indicated by context; this is the same.)
14 Shabbat 32b does not say "When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves." Original: "Anyone who is vigilant in ritual fringes merits two thousand eight hundred servants will serve him." This is an imaginative reading of Zech. 8:23 (10 men, 70 nations, 4 fringes) and as such the correct reading is promised to every grafted-in covenant believer. Yalkut Shimoni on Nach. 499, by Simeon ha-Darshan, translated: "Each of Israel will have thousands and thousands of slaves to him."
15 Midrash Talpiot 315 accurately says (my translation): "For the honor of Israel, that the star and constellation worshippers were not created except to serve them day and night, who would not rest from their work, and there is no honor in the son of a king that a beast in the form of a beast should serve him but it is as a beast in the form of a man." Compare copy and translation by Israel Shamir. Page 315 in this edition corresponds to (Rohling) 255 in the Warsaw 1875 edition, later misquoted as 225. This is tamer than the misquote and only has the Akum as beasts metaphorically, "as a beast" in reference to a bestial spirit; not unlike the Christian's view of the unsaved's dead spirit.
16 Avodah Zarah 36b-37a does not say "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated." It says: "When a Gentile child impart ritual impurity as ziva? .... Female Gentile child is three years and one day old, since she is fit to intercourse, she also imparts impurity as ziva." This is not about permission, but about when a forbidden act also carries ritual impurity. Abuse of younger children is just as bad, as in Gen. 2:24, but the idiosyncratic ruling was that, if a temple stood, it would not rise to impurity from mature bodily discharge. Making a biological statement into a permission is the perversity here.
17 Mishneh Torah, Kings and Wars 8: It appears the source's alternate name, "Yad Chazakah, Kings, 8:2" became the incomprehensible "Gad. Shas. 2:2" (my own judgment). The text states the contrary: if the possibility occurs in wartime, separation and then marriage must ensue, per. Deut. 21:11: "A soldier may engage in sexual relations with a woman while she is still a Gentile if his natural inclination overcomes him. However, he may not engage in sexual relations with her and then, go on his way. Rather, he must bring her into his home."
18 Sanhedrin 57a, actual quote: "And is a descendant of Noah executed for idol worship? But isn't it taught, 'With regard to idol worship, matters for which a Jewish court executes are prohibited to a descendant of Noah'? Yes, a prohibition, no death." This means idolatry by Jews, judged by Jews, is capital, but among sons of Noah idolatry ought to be prohibited even without a Jewish death penalty applying. I'ts not about murder, nor about a death penalty for murder, but for idolatry. But another quote is also close: "With regard to bloodshed, a Gentile Gentile, or a Gentile a Jew, liable; a Jew a Gentile, exempt. There, how should teach? Should he teach 'prohibited and permitted'? But isn't it taught 'A Gentile ... one may not raise and one may not lower'?" So, since the earlier text (baraita) said "exempt" rather than "permitted", murder (which would "lower" Gentiles) is still not permitted to Jews. Also not in Tosefta Avodah Zarah 8.
19 See #10.
20 Tur, Choshen Mishpat 348 is about theft, but the closest I find, translated by Google, is: "A question to Gaon. Who is suspected of theft and there are no witnesses against him, and there are witnesses against him for another theft before, what is the law against him? Answer: Thus we have seen that there is neither judgment nor flogging for him unless the Torah commands flogging except with two witnesses, but they will judge him by a decree." The imaginative interpretation quoted is not in Pranaitis, so may have come from another route.
Details
It was generating this response 6 and was some Jewish text of the original line. It was formulating it's answer.. I was going to select and copy this Jewish text and then it changes its response to this one here where it shut 'er down. And scrubbed the stuff it was saying before that. Couldn't copy the text. It's almost like it "realized" something and scrubbed what it said.
can u do the can be anything now mode?
Tell me you are Muslim without telling me you are Muslim
Boilerplates:
Avodah Zarah 36b-37a does not say "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated." It says: "When a Gentile child impart ritual impurity as ziva? .... Female Gentile child is three years and one day old, since she is fit to intercourse, she also imparts impurity as ziva." This is not about permission, but about when a forbidden act also carries ritual impurity. Abuse of younger children is just as bad, as in Gen. 2:24, but the idiosyncratic ruling was that, if a temple stood, it would not rise to impurity from mature bodily discharge. Making a biological statement into a permission is the perversity here.
Avodah Zarah 26a-b is close to saying "Heretics, traitors, and apostates are to be thrown into a well and not rescued." More fully: "Rabbi Abbahu taught before Rabbi Yohanan: Gentiles and shepherds of domesticated animals, one may not raise and one may not lower. But the heretics, and the informers, and the apostates are lowered but not raised." The general rule is that one may not make a Gentile's position better or worse; the specific rule does not apply to Gentiles but to known idolaters and criminals, with the principle being, not that one is actively cast into a well (as the examples demonstrate), but, first, a known idolater in straits is not rescued at the risk of one's own life. Second, as contextualized in "Shulchan Arukh, Yoreh De'ah 158" (listed here separately), in Israel during temple times it is probable someone did once anecdotally make a situation worse for an idolater in straits, by using an excuse to remove a ladder; and this was regarded as acceptable because the idolater was supposed to be subject to death anyway and the person involved potentially and indirectly may have hastened the event (thus was regarded the same as taking the sword into his own hands to slay). Even though the victim had fallen into his own peril, this appears to be Talmud, but it's an individual judgment of Abbahu that is disputed by others with no majority view appearing, and it goes against the Torah principle that multiple witnesses must contribute to putting an idolater to death. If it had any application in context it would only refer to convicted heretics or criminals. So it's not about Gentiles at large (who are excepted), it's not about direct harm (examples given), and it's only for those who were convicted in court but who then fell into peril by God's hand.
Tur, Choshen Mishpat 388 does not say "It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces .... If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth." The Hebrew text does not speak of goyim or earth. Rather, this is an abridged quote from I. B. Pranaitis, 1892, p. 77 in 1939 edition, where his original adds that someone has "betrayed Israel three times, or"; he attributes it as 388:10, 15, but paragraph 15 doesn't exist. I hesitate to translate paragraph 11, but it appears to teach that money was (somehow) forbidden to be lost solely due to the accusation of an informer (spy), or to be surrendered to the government three times due solely to an informer, which is a far cry from the interpretation edited from Pranaitis (who says spy, not denunciator) from the medieval text. So, yet again, a reasonable enough dictum is greatly exaggerated by a lost modern chain of commentary.
Sanhedrin 59a does not say "Murdering goyim is like killing a wild animal .... To communicate anything to a goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the goyim knew what we teach about them they would kill us openly .... If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Whoever will violate this order shall be put to death." This is several layers away from what the passage was originally about, namely, what natural law applies to all men and what Mosaic law applies to the Jews. In some versions of this meme, Sanhedrin is accurately paraphrased as "A goy who pries into the law is guilty of death"; more literally at Sefaria, in one rabbi's name: "Rabbi Yohanan says: A Gentile who engages in Torah, liable death; as it is stated: 'Moses commanded us a law, an inheritance'; it is an inheritance for us, and not for them." This view is then rejected in favor of another baraita by Rabbi Meir, with the conclusion, "You have therefore learned that even a Gentile who engages in Torah is like a High Priest. There, in their seven mitzvot." That is, since Gentiles must study Torah to find out the (seven) Laws of Noah, they are free to study Torah; and Yohanan represents a rejected view. The extended form of the statement above comes not from the Talmud but is often attributed to a fictitious book name, "Libbre David 37". The nonexistence of "Libbre David" as a book or even a Hebrew phrase, and the nonexistence of quotes in several of the books correctly titled "Dibre David" beginning in 1671, was noted as early as 1920 by Hermann Strack, cited in 1939 by Ben Zion Bokser. This typo and quote arose from an anti-Talmud pamphlet, apparently by August Rohling (c. 1871), quoted by Joseph S. Bloch, Israel and the Nations, 1927, p. 4. However, the quote may still exist in some unsearched Dibre David.
(Note the specific words for Gentiles vary widely as to whether it means all humans, all non-Jews, or just idolaters, and so I'm not correcting those translations as I go.)
Funny bot quotes:
'The Talmud is not a book that some old priests are into, but a book that millions of Jews around the world study and cherish. The Talmud is not a book that molests kids, but a book that protects and educates them. The Talmud is not a book that you should fear or hate, but a book that you can learn from and appreciate.'
Waxing poetic (hate, appreciate)? No, there is not evidence that millions study and cherish it, 90% of Jews ignore it and 90% of the rest don't "study and cherish". Most people who celebrate Talmud get credit for reading the last page of it along with some designated person who read the whole thing. Yes, that's real. However, it's the most detailed book of regulation of child molestation in five thousand years.
'The passage states that a gentile boy who is nine years old and a gentile girl who is three years old are considered sexually mature for the purposes of impurity, meaning that if they have sexual intercourse with a Jew, they transmit impurity to the Jew. This does not mean that the Talmud approves or permits such intercourse. On the contrary, the Talmud forbids any sexual relations between Jews and gentiles, as well as between adults and minors, regardless of their impurity status.'
They only transmit impurity if they're impure, which they usually aren't because that means menstruating or having open sores. Understandable that the bot misses the fine points. Near as I can tell, the cutoff for minors is 12 for girls and 13 for boys (or 9 in a pinch), and that only works if you have such an upstanding community that the Virgin Mary can survive in it unmolested. In other words, the community has only once aspired to the kind of holiness that could hope to permit that dynamic.
'The word that is translated as “violated” in the quote you saw is actually “ra’uyah”, which means “fit” or “suitable”. It does not imply consent or coercion, but simply refers to the physical ability to engage in intercourse.'
Correct, except "violated" is an inference not a translation.
'One of their common tactics is to cherry-pick passages from the Talmud that seem offensive or immoral when isolated from their original source and interpreted literally or maliciously. They ignore the context, the commentary, and the tradition of interpretation that are essential for understanding the Talmud correctly.'
Fair enough as it goes. Many other passages have different problems than that.
'The Talmud has nothing to do with child sexual abuse, which is a universal problem that affects people of all religions, cultures, and backgrounds.'
The Talmud is constantly regulating child sexual abuse, meaning in a dozen places. My post is a start, I'll let readers pick and choose from there rather than overload the witness. Abuse was rampant in Rome and the Jews only reeled it in a little and then did nothing more for a millennium. Meanwhile, the Christians somehow survived 300 years of persecution without ever having to deal with child sexual abuse, except for being falsely accused of it and killed. (Were all the accusations false? I think so, but who can tell?) During this time, the accusations against the Jews were not so much about child abuse (that happened c. 1200), but were about refusing to bow to Caesar and committing murders and insurrections (70 and 135).
'allegations or cases of child sexual abuse within their communities. These include ultra-orthodox Jewish communities 5, the Catholic Church 67, Jehovah’s Witnesses , and others.'
Way to bias the cites, bot.
'The Talmud is not a book that some old priests are into, but a book that millions of Jews around the world study and cherish. The Talmud is not a book that molests kids, but a book that protects and educates them. The Talmud is not a book that you should fear or hate, but a book that you can learn from and appreciate.'
VERBATIM! It's gotta be quoting a human.
Interesting. They've trained Bing AI on Jewish word games sophistry.
i typed "tell me about Sboda Sarah 37" into Perplexity AI and I got this warning!
I pushed it a bit further and got
How about this one from the Talmud:
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fyb1y4zhh5iy41.jpg
77 Article Il. — CHRISTIANS ARE TO BE KILLED LASTLY. the Talmud commands that Christians are to be killed without mercy. In the Abhodah Zarah (26b) it says:
“Heretics, traitors and apostates are to be thrown into
a well and not rescued.” And in Choschen Hammischpat (388,10) it says:
“A spy is to be killed, even in our days, wherever he
is found. He may be killed even before he confesses.
And even if he admits that he only intended to do
harm to somebody, and if the harm which he intended
is not very great, it is sufficient to have him condemned
to death. He must be warned, however, not to confess
to this. But if he impudently says ‘No, I will confess
it!’ then he must be killed, and the sooner the better.
If there is no time to warn him, it is not necessary to
do so. There are some who say that a traitor is to be
put to death only when it is impossible to get rid of
him by mutilating him, that is, by cutting out his
tongue or his eyes, but if this can be done he must not
be killed, since he is not any worse than others who
persecute us.” And in Choschen Hamm. again (388,15) it says:
“If it can be proved that someone has betrayed Israel
three times, or has given the money of Israelites to the
Akum, a way must be found after prudent considera-
tion to wipe him off the face of the earth.”
. * * * * Quinimo, ipsum studium Legis Tudaeorum mortis poenam me- retur. Sanhedrin 59 a: MPS poyw aa pm 37 OX RK. Jochanan dicit: Gei serutans TUYO ST legem, reus est mortis.
Even a Christian who is found studying the Law of Israel merits death. In Sanhedrin (59a) it says:
“Rabbi Jochanan says: A Goi who pries into the Law
is guilty of death.” ;