only parasites who do not (and can not) create any goods would starve, not everyone.
And how would you expect that to work in industries where even one plant is an endeavor costing hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars to build and equip? Do the workers just pool their money together to buy a factory and then fight over who actually gets to run things? Would it be state owned? Would the worker just get paid a share of what he produces leading to a worse outcome for both the worker and company?
I see nothing bad if all that useless lawyers, state officials, stock traders, marketers, elites and other crap would starve and beg ones who could create things for food.
Those would all still exist though.
There happening completely opposite process, NWO build a system when people who create goods have to beg for food those bastards who create absolutely nothing. And NWO would not stop by itself if it will not achieve that impossible goal
What is impossible about that goal? It's how things have always worked since the dawn of recorded history.
So, it is stupid idea that "people should work hard to survive" will eventually end with everyone starving
A bit of a stretch that people being worked to their fullest means everyone starves(and then nobody to work the factories and farms?). Population reduction is one thing, but having nobody to serve you is completely nonsensical.
And how would you expect that to work in industries where even one plant is an endeavor costing hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars to build and equip?
I expect that such giant enterprises will eventually become obsolete, because of technological development.
Do the workers just pool their money together to buy a factory and then fight over who actually gets to run things?
It does not matter who owns a factory. Important thing how many effort of people who run and//or own that factory is dumped into different state and "business" stuff that is not essential for real production.
Those would all still exist though.
But they should not be so expensive.
What is impossible about that goal?
There always will be people who will find a way to get everything they need without begging from authorities.
A bit of a stretch that people being worked to their fullest means everyone starves(and then nobody to work the factories and farms?)
Could you imagine that people could work on farm for fun? Just because they like that way of living. And they don't need to work hard to cover their needs and have some excess for trade. But when a state force them to work hard for food by all that stupid legislations, taxes, licenses and other shit, they have no reason to continue. It is no more fun in that thing, when you have to spent days talking with unpleasant and useless people just to buy some nitrate fertilizer.
The same is with factory and any other business.
So, the attempts of state to force people work for food killing any motivation. Work without motivation is a direct way to fall of productivity, quality and all that things not very important for state. Eventually there will be no decent food or goods to work for. And that's the end.
I expect that such giant enterprises will eventually become obsolete, because of technological development.
Ahh, so appeal to generic technological development. You just imagine a world where one machine can do everything without need for retooling and with no question of how the raw materials will be obtained if not with costly machinery.
It does not matter who owns a factory. Important thing how many effort of people who run and own that factory is dumped into different state stuff that is not necessary for real production.
I'm not even sure what you're saying.
There always will be people who will find a way to get everything they need without begging from authorities.
The only way to do so is through theft, tax evasion and illegal homesteading, or under the table bartering, all of which are already illegal. You act like because crime exists everyone will be starved in a misguided effort to completely wipe it out rather than just settling for more and more measures of increasing effectiveness that work almost entirely? So what if someone manages to live independently for a week before arrest and being forced to work in prison or executed?
Could you imagine that people could work on farm for fun? Just because they like that way of living.
Farms as we know them would be too expensive for the average man to own and operate, instead we'd just be stuck using hand tools sleeping in a communal shed and paying most of our yields the head of town to feed the militia.
and they don't need to work hard to cover their needs and have some excess for trade.
They'd be working their asses off for as long as the sun is up and then be unable to get a reasonable price for their harvest because local distribution is the only option and everyone else around you is growing the same crops.
But when a state force them to work hard for food by all that stupid legislations, taxes, licenses and other shit, they have no reason to continue. It is no more fun in that thing, when you have to spent days talking with unpleasant and useless people just to buy some nitrate fertilizer.
Funny, in a modern farm there's a specialized position for all that sort of stuff, in your world you'd have more administrative tasks to deal with than you would as an employee on a farm now if you're really making the "for enjoyment" argument.
So, the attempts of state to force people work for food killing any motivation
That creates the motivation, without a need to work to survive most people would just be chasing pleasure all their lives.
Work without motivation is a direct way to fall of productivity, quality and all that things not very important for state. Eventually there will be no decent food or goods to work for. And that's the end.
Quality and worker motivation are almost completely detached, as long as the low rung employees are actually doing their job as written then quality is entirely dependent on those who write up and sign off on the specifications. Productivity is effected, but that's why you need to have a surplus of potential workers so you can replace those who aren't performing adequately and thus providing a motivation for your employees to not slack off for even a moment.
You just imagine a world where one machine can do everything without need for retooling and with no question of how the raw materials will be obtained if not with costly machinery.
It is only question of energy. With enough energy and technology advanced enough, you could just create anything from any matter you have around. That is the course of whole history of means of production development. Technology makes means of production smaller, more effective and cheaper. Of course, we are far from "replicators", yet, but you already could have nearly any plastic part made at home on $100 device.
The only way to do so is through theft, tax evasion and illegal homesteading, or under the table bartering, all of which are already illegal.
Fuck their laws. Right to create anything you want is natural. As a right to exchange goods with others. If some law restrict it, this law is void.
They'd be working their asses off for as long as the sun is up and then be unable to get a reasonable price for their harvest because local distribution is the only option and everyone else around you is growing the same crops.
That does not work like that. It is not XIV century now. You don't need work your ass off all daytime.
Funny, in a modern farm there's a specialized position for all that sort of stuff
Positions. Highly expensive ones. And that people create absolutely nothing. So, those who do real things have to work much more to make some additional money to pay them.
That creates the motivation, without a need to work to survive most people would just be chasing pleasure all their lives.
Most, but not all. Many people will spend free time for doing something useful.
quality is entirely dependent on those who write up and sign off on the specifications.
That is complete bullshit. Quality have nothing to do with specs at all. There is no any quality in things that perfectly fit to specs at sale time but most will inevitably break later. Quality depends on manufacturing culture, not on specs. Manufacturing culture will not allow you put a plastic part instead of metal one on car engine, or use some "flavoring identical to natural" instead of real berries. Both products will perfectly fit specs, but one is a garbage and other is a decent thing.
Of course, we are far from "replicators", yet, but you already could have nearly any plastic part made at home on $100 device.
after waiting 5 hours for a part that wouldn't take five minutes to make machine in an actual factory and likely using more expensive materials, 3d printing isn't viable for anything except small home projects you cant get parts for any other way or that have insane mark up.
Technology makes means of production smaller, more effective and cheaper.
I'd strongly disagree with technology making the means of production smaller and cheaper to obtain, typically the older tech is the cheapest and size can only shrink down so much.
That does not work like that. It is not XIV century now. You don't need work your ass off all daytime.
You would because the machinery used to make farming so efficient is unaffordable for the average man.
Manufacturing culture will not allow you put a plastic part instead of metal one on car engine, or use some "flavoring identical to natural" instead of real berries. Both products will perfectly fit specs, but one is a garbage and other is a decent thing.
Again, no. if the specifications call for artificial flavoring or plastic instead of metal then that's what will be used and it's all that will even be available unless whoever's in charge of ordering fails at his job.
And how would you expect that to work in industries where even one plant is an endeavor costing hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars to build and equip?
Stop having mega-factories? Most of the crap that we make isn't remotely needed, and much of the stuff we need could be done locally at small scale. Yeah, it would cost more but that just raises the incentive to build things to last.
So every man owns his own factory(ignoring where the factories came from and how they were distributed) that he operates himself and for something with hundreds or even thousands of different pieces you'd have parts coming from hundreds of different factories? Or would you simply have one factory which has to retool between each step forcing batches to be much larger than they would otherwise be?
Most of the crap that we make isn't remotely needed
I disagree, it's just most of the stuff we see outside of a work context is unneeded, but there's a lot that goes into keeping an industrial society running that you don't normally see or think about.
Yeah, it would cost more but that just raises the incentive to build things to last.
While it would incentivize people buying quality it would also force people into buying the cheapest shit available which will often be made out of materials which are plainly unsuitable for the task.
And how would you expect that to work in industries where even one plant is an endeavor costing hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars to build and equip? Do the workers just pool their money together to buy a factory and then fight over who actually gets to run things? Would it be state owned? Would the worker just get paid a share of what he produces leading to a worse outcome for both the worker and company?
Those would all still exist though.
What is impossible about that goal? It's how things have always worked since the dawn of recorded history.
A bit of a stretch that people being worked to their fullest means everyone starves(and then nobody to work the factories and farms?). Population reduction is one thing, but having nobody to serve you is completely nonsensical.
I expect that such giant enterprises will eventually become obsolete, because of technological development.
It does not matter who owns a factory. Important thing how many effort of people who run and//or own that factory is dumped into different state and "business" stuff that is not essential for real production.
But they should not be so expensive.
There always will be people who will find a way to get everything they need without begging from authorities.
Could you imagine that people could work on farm for fun? Just because they like that way of living. And they don't need to work hard to cover their needs and have some excess for trade. But when a state force them to work hard for food by all that stupid legislations, taxes, licenses and other shit, they have no reason to continue. It is no more fun in that thing, when you have to spent days talking with unpleasant and useless people just to buy some nitrate fertilizer.
The same is with factory and any other business.
So, the attempts of state to force people work for food killing any motivation. Work without motivation is a direct way to fall of productivity, quality and all that things not very important for state. Eventually there will be no decent food or goods to work for. And that's the end.
Ahh, so appeal to generic technological development. You just imagine a world where one machine can do everything without need for retooling and with no question of how the raw materials will be obtained if not with costly machinery.
I'm not even sure what you're saying.
The only way to do so is through theft, tax evasion and illegal homesteading, or under the table bartering, all of which are already illegal. You act like because crime exists everyone will be starved in a misguided effort to completely wipe it out rather than just settling for more and more measures of increasing effectiveness that work almost entirely? So what if someone manages to live independently for a week before arrest and being forced to work in prison or executed?
Farms as we know them would be too expensive for the average man to own and operate, instead we'd just be stuck using hand tools sleeping in a communal shed and paying most of our yields the head of town to feed the militia.
They'd be working their asses off for as long as the sun is up and then be unable to get a reasonable price for their harvest because local distribution is the only option and everyone else around you is growing the same crops.
Funny, in a modern farm there's a specialized position for all that sort of stuff, in your world you'd have more administrative tasks to deal with than you would as an employee on a farm now if you're really making the "for enjoyment" argument.
That creates the motivation, without a need to work to survive most people would just be chasing pleasure all their lives.
Quality and worker motivation are almost completely detached, as long as the low rung employees are actually doing their job as written then quality is entirely dependent on those who write up and sign off on the specifications. Productivity is effected, but that's why you need to have a surplus of potential workers so you can replace those who aren't performing adequately and thus providing a motivation for your employees to not slack off for even a moment.
It is only question of energy. With enough energy and technology advanced enough, you could just create anything from any matter you have around. That is the course of whole history of means of production development. Technology makes means of production smaller, more effective and cheaper. Of course, we are far from "replicators", yet, but you already could have nearly any plastic part made at home on $100 device.
Fuck their laws. Right to create anything you want is natural. As a right to exchange goods with others. If some law restrict it, this law is void.
That does not work like that. It is not XIV century now. You don't need work your ass off all daytime.
Positions. Highly expensive ones. And that people create absolutely nothing. So, those who do real things have to work much more to make some additional money to pay them.
Most, but not all. Many people will spend free time for doing something useful.
That is complete bullshit. Quality have nothing to do with specs at all. There is no any quality in things that perfectly fit to specs at sale time but most will inevitably break later. Quality depends on manufacturing culture, not on specs. Manufacturing culture will not allow you put a plastic part instead of metal one on car engine, or use some "flavoring identical to natural" instead of real berries. Both products will perfectly fit specs, but one is a garbage and other is a decent thing.
after waiting 5 hours for a part that wouldn't take five minutes to make machine in an actual factory and likely using more expensive materials, 3d printing isn't viable for anything except small home projects you cant get parts for any other way or that have insane mark up.
I'd strongly disagree with technology making the means of production smaller and cheaper to obtain, typically the older tech is the cheapest and size can only shrink down so much.
You would because the machinery used to make farming so efficient is unaffordable for the average man.
Again, no. if the specifications call for artificial flavoring or plastic instead of metal then that's what will be used and it's all that will even be available unless whoever's in charge of ordering fails at his job.
Stop having mega-factories? Most of the crap that we make isn't remotely needed, and much of the stuff we need could be done locally at small scale. Yeah, it would cost more but that just raises the incentive to build things to last.
So every man owns his own factory(ignoring where the factories came from and how they were distributed) that he operates himself and for something with hundreds or even thousands of different pieces you'd have parts coming from hundreds of different factories? Or would you simply have one factory which has to retool between each step forcing batches to be much larger than they would otherwise be?
I disagree, it's just most of the stuff we see outside of a work context is unneeded, but there's a lot that goes into keeping an industrial society running that you don't normally see or think about.
While it would incentivize people buying quality it would also force people into buying the cheapest shit available which will often be made out of materials which are plainly unsuitable for the task.