You’re right I am ignoring that fact. It doesn’t seem relevant. They may have been given these orders to follow or a generalized plan of attack but any military worth its salt has already looked at their own defences and figured out where an enemy attack is most likely and expected and thus plans accordingly. These plans don’t show a timeline, they don’t show strategy and they don’t show the conditions of the war as the Russian see them. It’s just troop movements and strategic locations to attack. Not the timeline (2-6 weeks for this quadrant, 4 for this one etc), doesn’t show what conditions the Russians consider success and failure (we lost 30000 men and thousands of obselete equipment pieces but gained billions in resources, win achieved! Vs we didn’t get to quadrant 4 by October, we’re going to lose too much once the snow falls this has been a prolonged failure etc). Knowing some planned troop movements which honestly could be war gamed out in the space of a lazy afternoon isn’t showing your whole plan to the world.
What are the Russians conditions for victory? What are their conditions for defeat? What is their best case and worst case time lines? These plans don’t show any of that so I still stand with my point that this isn’t showing the Russians “evil plans” have failed dismally. They have been taking steps to keep infrastructure in place so they can use it after, obviously quick steamrolling destruction be damned was never the original goal from the opening salvo here.
But have succeeded in others. Do you honestly think a military only wins if they win every single battle? Fuck read up on history or just start with WW2 and see that things go back and forth a lot before the final victory. MacArthur got chased out of the Philippines, vowed to come back and eventually did. Shit is not a call of duty match where it’s over in 30 minutes. For all we know Russia might have plans to stay there and fuck around for 20 years like the USA did in Afghanistan.
Show me Putin or an actual russian general laying out plans for this, with a timeline and show it failed completely and they achieved zero objectives and I’ll agree with you. But looking and soy boy pointing at a different president talking about troop movements does NOT equal russian plans being completely exposed.
MacArthur got chased out of the Philippines, vowed to come back and eventually did.
Right. That doesn't change the fact that getting chased out of the Philippines is recognized — by even the U.S. government — as an American military defeat. Just like getting chased out of all of central and western Ukraine is a Russian military defeat, i.e., a failed invasion.
I mean, really. It almost goes without saying that if you and your joint-operative try to do a sweeping invasion of a country, lose 25,000 troops and render a quarter of your battalions combative ineffective, then retreat from all but a sliver of the country, you have failed your invasion.
But hey, say what you like. I will circle back to you in a couple months when Russia is in full mobilization, more combat ineffective, and kicked out of even more of Ukraine.
And a defeat early on doesn’t mean your side loses in the end. Russia plans to use the infrastructure of Ukraine after they take them, so it’s not like carpet bombing and artillery striking every square inch of the country is an option. They have to carefully capture and then hold territory and having civilians be able to work in the factories and power stations etc afterwards is kinda important.
But you’re right, Russia could never conquer anyone. I’ll just sit here and Crimea river over those poor Russian troops
You’re right I am ignoring that fact. It doesn’t seem relevant. They may have been given these orders to follow or a generalized plan of attack but any military worth its salt has already looked at their own defences and figured out where an enemy attack is most likely and expected and thus plans accordingly. These plans don’t show a timeline, they don’t show strategy and they don’t show the conditions of the war as the Russian see them. It’s just troop movements and strategic locations to attack. Not the timeline (2-6 weeks for this quadrant, 4 for this one etc), doesn’t show what conditions the Russians consider success and failure (we lost 30000 men and thousands of obselete equipment pieces but gained billions in resources, win achieved! Vs we didn’t get to quadrant 4 by October, we’re going to lose too much once the snow falls this has been a prolonged failure etc). Knowing some planned troop movements which honestly could be war gamed out in the space of a lazy afternoon isn’t showing your whole plan to the world. What are the Russians conditions for victory? What are their conditions for defeat? What is their best case and worst case time lines? These plans don’t show any of that so I still stand with my point that this isn’t showing the Russians “evil plans” have failed dismally. They have been taking steps to keep infrastructure in place so they can use it after, obviously quick steamrolling destruction be damned was never the original goal from the opening salvo here.
Right, and Russia failed to accomplish those troop movements and strategic attacks . . .
But have succeeded in others. Do you honestly think a military only wins if they win every single battle? Fuck read up on history or just start with WW2 and see that things go back and forth a lot before the final victory. MacArthur got chased out of the Philippines, vowed to come back and eventually did. Shit is not a call of duty match where it’s over in 30 minutes. For all we know Russia might have plans to stay there and fuck around for 20 years like the USA did in Afghanistan. Show me Putin or an actual russian general laying out plans for this, with a timeline and show it failed completely and they achieved zero objectives and I’ll agree with you. But looking and soy boy pointing at a different president talking about troop movements does NOT equal russian plans being completely exposed.
Right. That doesn't change the fact that getting chased out of the Philippines is recognized — by even the U.S. government — as an American military defeat. Just like getting chased out of all of central and western Ukraine is a Russian military defeat, i.e., a failed invasion.
I mean, really. It almost goes without saying that if you and your joint-operative try to do a sweeping invasion of a country, lose 25,000 troops and render a quarter of your battalions combative ineffective, then retreat from all but a sliver of the country, you have failed your invasion.
But hey, say what you like. I will circle back to you in a couple months when Russia is in full mobilization, more combat ineffective, and kicked out of even more of Ukraine.
And a defeat early on doesn’t mean your side loses in the end. Russia plans to use the infrastructure of Ukraine after they take them, so it’s not like carpet bombing and artillery striking every square inch of the country is an option. They have to carefully capture and then hold territory and having civilians be able to work in the factories and power stations etc afterwards is kinda important. But you’re right, Russia could never conquer anyone. I’ll just sit here and Crimea river over those poor Russian troops