Firstly, if the algorithms are flawed and they are the regulator, that means to most of us that the regulator is flawed. Same as current fiat grant you, but we’ve had thousands of years and trillions of transactions with fiat and it’s flaws are mostly understood. Explaining fraud and theft to someone is rather easy. Explaining proof of work crypto to someone who’s a complete newbie is much harder.
A government prohibiting the use and trade of an item is dealt with by the ruled over people getting mad enough to demand change or remove and replace those leaders. Revolutions have happened for less.
People using proof of work coins to heat their home and not care is their choice, perhaps the coins they mine will be valuable, perhaps not. I guess it’s like buying quarter lotto tickets. You don’t care if you win, you do it for the fun and if you win, bonus. But as far as heaters go, it’s the worst solution. Tying up that many resources for the heat output is like buying a national park to make a single box of tooth picks. A simple space heater is cheap, effective and shuts off when desired temp is reached, the miner is 24/7. The electricity to power the mining rig comes from somewhere be it coal plants, hydroelectric nuclear or solar, all of which have costs nevermind the copper and steel lines to connect everything. I’ve had to use electric heaters in my old house even with a gas furnace for main heat, I would have needed 4 or more mining rigs to keep my water from freezing rather than one easy to replace space heater. But at least they get some use out their mining rig I guess. Until summer when it becomes excess load on their A/C.
No one forcing us to use shit coins, this is true. I’m not using any. But how do you know which is a shit coin and which is the next bit coin? Average Joe doesn’t have time to sit on his phone or computer 24/7 researching and looking for scams.
Printing off your bitcoins for backup is an okay backup, but it completely erases the point of them in the first place, being a digital means of exchange. Cloning the hard drive for a backup is agreed the best option, that’s why when my drives failed I didn’t lose anything but a few recent files, I still had my old pre-upgrade drives and had backups of all the important things. It’s still like pulling teeth to get smaller businesses to even do that’s much for critical files sadly, speaking from experience. Hard drive recovery utilities are awesome but not failure proof, total agreement with you when it comes to backups.
But printing off a wallet and cloning a hard drive is another step average people aren’t willing to do. I get the impression you’re tech savvy, as an I but the average consumer is not. Most people want a computer to be like a fridge or a toaster. Plug it in, it works. Use whenever I want. Make my toast. Chill my milk. Load those memes. It’s not so much the coins fault as it is the coins flaw the time it requires more work to use properly. People are LAZY. Devices and services that aid them to be lazier do well. More intensified use of something falls to niche markets.
Government banning things doesn’t tend to work out well either. Alcohol prohibition failed miserably. The war on drugs is a joke and weed is legal here and in several us states as well as other countries. China has banned crypto currency. But the black market always thrives. Plutonium is banned because of its use for nuclear weapons and reactors, and because of the sheeples fear of such things they’re okay with the that’s. But for the previous examples, they keep drinking, smoking and mining crypto. Laws are only a barrier when enforced and most only stop honest criminals.
I don’t see crypto in current form changing form the better. Too useful for the traders and “supreme intellectuals” who see it as a way to remove government control from their lives, as they use it on government installed internet infrastructure. Too many people able to swindle and Ponzi scheme and cheat others for their own end to make its current incarnation perfect. You basically have to start from scratch, only now you have the albatross around your neck of all this mess that’s come before.
Explaining proof of work crypto to someone who’s a complete newbie is much harder.
Hardly it is a flaw. Explaining how some stupid whatsapp works is much harder than that, but that does not prevent sheeps from using it. And using it sheeps loose much more than stupid money.
Revolutions have happened for less.
Don't remember any revolutions or even any backlash on prohibition of circulation of radioactive metals. Nobody could prevent governments to state that gold is now radioactive "because of science" and cause of cancer and diarhea. And all sheeple willingly will run to the "gold utilisation points" with their gold and will immidiately report on neighbour who "harm people having gold".
Tying up that many resources for the heat output is like buying a national park to make a single box of tooth picks.
Indeed. That is transaction cost flaw that should be fixed in future versions.
But still try to get the idea that people willingly go through that complexity to get that coins. If there was no demand in uncontrolled currency, people never would have been do that insane things.
Printing off your bitcoins for backup is an okay backup, but it completely erases the point of them in the first place, being a digital means of exchange.
Really no. Printing a wallet devirtualize cyrpto into reality. :) That paper is a complete representation of coins. You could use it like cash, just provide a password to that printed wallet.
You could even create a dozen of wallets, put some some small sum in each and print them. You literally print your own cash that have some real value.
Cloning the hard drive for a backup is agreed the best option
You don't need to clone your drive, just copy only important files and that's all. For crypto the only file you need to backup is wallet.dat.
But printing off a wallet and cloning a hard drive is another step average people aren’t willing to do.
So, why they whining about crypto, if they don't want to keep it correctly? It's just like entering a plane cockpit and began to complain about complexity of controls when you "just want to fly and that's all".
People are LAZY.
And stupid. So it is illogical to pity them, when they try to use things intended for clever and not lazy people and fail. If you are lazy and stupid - don't use things you don't know how to use. Or pay somebody to use them for you.
Alcohol prohibition failed miserably. The war on drugs is a joke and weed is legal here and in several us states as well as other countries.
I doubt that prohibition was real intent of government. When government really want to prohibit something, it works without problems. Again, look at radioactive materials. The picture is completely different from alcohol, drugs or even guns.
Plutonium is banned because of its use for nuclear weapons and reactors, and because of the sheeples fear of such things they’re okay with the that’s.
No, it is banned because it is a good and long-lasting source of energy that could make people completely energy independent. In no case government want a household that needs nothing from corporations to exist without falling to stone age.
I don’t see crypto in current form changing form the better.
Me too. Current version will be inevitably replaced by more advanced one. It can't be fixed. Only after few iterations crypto will be ready for use by any sheeple. It should pass its way, just like computers or other complex technologies.
As for sheeple who fall into traps of greedy swindlers who use new technologies to grab peoples money, there is nothing new at all. It happens right now with that AI crap, or "quantum computing", f.e., but only a crypto painted in black by media. Because idea of cryptocurrencies is dangerous for them. It gives people a hope of currency independence.
Been enjoying this discourse, it’s great finding someone “on the other side” and having it be civil and informative rather than the usual internet “kys you’re just on the other side of the sprectrum reeeee!” so for that, thanks!
A few things, printing off crypto I also saw as ripe for fraud. If I print off the same bitcoin qr code/address/whatever for redemption by someone else, and print two of them and give them to two different people, the first one to redeem gets paid and the second guy gets screwed. Rather small amount of this happening I’m sure but it is a possibility to watch out for.
Yes copying only the needed file for backup is all ya need, I was still lost in the memory of when my drives failed and I was able to simply slap the old drive with OS and data partitions back in my computer and fire it up like nothing happened. When that’s the case, yeah I strongly push a cloned drive for immediate recovery and progression to hard drive recovery tools to regain anything lost since the last backup. Having multiple drives with the same wallet or wallets on them can be hard to manage to make sure they’re all updated, keeping it simple like having two drives and copying to both is fairly easy.
People being lazy is a bad thing but when you want wide spread adoption, having it be hard and needing to be clever doesn’t get you adopted as fast or at all in some cases. These mindless sheep are easily mislead but still drive heavy dangerous cars because they made it easy to do so. Power steering, power brakes, automatic transmission, electric starter vs hand crank, power windows, all done to make life easier and as a result cars are quite popular. Older models that require manual shifting and that aforementioned hand crank are still around but far less popular. For a currency to be really useful you need it accepted everywhere. Bitcoin being like Discover charge isn’t a good thing.
Computers were once hard to use. I’m lucky and got to start using one when I was 4, but looking around now it’s the techies, gamers and those who need them who use computers. Everyone seems to think a cell phone is superior and while they’re wrong, popular opinion doesn’t require facts just a feeling of superiority. Unless digital currency is as easy as tapping your debit card or credit card and accepted everywhere across a country like fiat cash is, it will remain a niche.
If I print off the same bitcoin qr code/address/whatever for redemption by someone else, and print two of them and give them to two different people, the first one to redeem gets paid and the second guy gets screwed.
Yes, there have to be some culture and trust. Just like with cash or card payments. You could call to the bank and recall your card payment or claim to the police that one who received your cash just stole it from you. But that kind of activity considered inacceptable in our society.
I strongly push a cloned drive for immediate recovery
It could be dangerous in case you have problems with disk interface. Broken interface damage data on your working disk, you replace it with a backup one, and damage it too. Been there, saw that. To avoid this you have to clone your backup before attempt to use it to keep your data safe. With modern disk sizes it is not a very immediate thing.
For a currency to be really useful you need it accepted everywhere.
Yes, and there even was a moment with Bitcoin when you could use it to buy a cup of coffee or fill a fuel tank. But that didn't last long, since transaction time rised to the level unsuitable for usual shopping. Now you still could pay with crypto for hosting, f.e., but that is not very common option. Business is ready to accept crypto as payment, but the flaws in whole system make the payments problematic.
Unless digital currency is as easy as tapping your debit card or credit card and accepted everywhere across a country like fiat cash is, it will remain a niche.
Exactly. And that is why it couldn't express any danger for cash or other payment systems. Crypto is just not ready for that yet.
A culture of trust when the basis is anonymity seems to me to be very difficult. Ner-do-Wells like drug dealers and hitmen and human traffickers can work with such systems because its generally accepted in such situations that not only do you not need to know each other’s names that any issue with be instantly met with violence, usually deadly. And if your name becomes known, or details about you, everyone close to you is at risk as well. Not saying this is GOOD but as far as effective, well they continue this because it is.
Being online and anonymous makes trust hard. Most of us have been burned in real life multiple times and even trusting people we know well is a stretch. With tens, hundred of thousands or millions of “dollars” on the line, that trust gets harder and harder to give. With fiat currency and physical bank locations, we have ways to track down who wronged us. Our current currency system has its flaws but it’s accountability seems miles ahead. I dunno how to make crypto close, the same or better to be honest. Brick and mortar buildings like the banks for people to go to and do secure trusted transactions? Faces for the Karen’s to yell at when something goes wrong? Government backed wallets that have some level of force behind them should anyone mess with them? I don’t know. People thought MTGox was trustable due to the strength of the well known name and they got burned.
I remember when it seemed bitcoin was gonna make it and being accepted at gas pumps at some locations, and some bitcoin atms. But as you described they encountered problems and it’s kind of just disappeared. Had my big into crypto buddy touting that at the time but then never mentioned it when the problems crept up and they didn’t go widespread. I do think blockchain is interesting tech and can have good uses, in small doses. Airplane maintenance logs for example, being stored for all airports to see and update is one area it seems it could be great at.
But for currency, it seems lacklustre. Perhaps for the super savvy it can be a good money maker, but I can only say perhaps. I’ve only known a couple people in real life to delve into crypto and one lost his investment when the guy he worked with ran off with his second investment after returning the first to gain his confidence and the other makes grandiose claims of having “so much money” but never improves his real life situation with any of it over claims of needing it where it is to use for more trading or leverage or yadda yadda and always wanted me to give him just $10000 and I could expect so much returns. Yeah never gave him a red cent for him to lose.
I go to wsbets.win and look in on the apes and honestly hope for the best for them. Never met a single one of em, but hope they get some money out of the crooked system they’re playing against. I just want a fair playing field.
Firstly, if the algorithms are flawed and they are the regulator, that means to most of us that the regulator is flawed. Same as current fiat grant you, but we’ve had thousands of years and trillions of transactions with fiat and it’s flaws are mostly understood. Explaining fraud and theft to someone is rather easy. Explaining proof of work crypto to someone who’s a complete newbie is much harder.
A government prohibiting the use and trade of an item is dealt with by the ruled over people getting mad enough to demand change or remove and replace those leaders. Revolutions have happened for less.
People using proof of work coins to heat their home and not care is their choice, perhaps the coins they mine will be valuable, perhaps not. I guess it’s like buying quarter lotto tickets. You don’t care if you win, you do it for the fun and if you win, bonus. But as far as heaters go, it’s the worst solution. Tying up that many resources for the heat output is like buying a national park to make a single box of tooth picks. A simple space heater is cheap, effective and shuts off when desired temp is reached, the miner is 24/7. The electricity to power the mining rig comes from somewhere be it coal plants, hydroelectric nuclear or solar, all of which have costs nevermind the copper and steel lines to connect everything. I’ve had to use electric heaters in my old house even with a gas furnace for main heat, I would have needed 4 or more mining rigs to keep my water from freezing rather than one easy to replace space heater. But at least they get some use out their mining rig I guess. Until summer when it becomes excess load on their A/C.
No one forcing us to use shit coins, this is true. I’m not using any. But how do you know which is a shit coin and which is the next bit coin? Average Joe doesn’t have time to sit on his phone or computer 24/7 researching and looking for scams.
Printing off your bitcoins for backup is an okay backup, but it completely erases the point of them in the first place, being a digital means of exchange. Cloning the hard drive for a backup is agreed the best option, that’s why when my drives failed I didn’t lose anything but a few recent files, I still had my old pre-upgrade drives and had backups of all the important things. It’s still like pulling teeth to get smaller businesses to even do that’s much for critical files sadly, speaking from experience. Hard drive recovery utilities are awesome but not failure proof, total agreement with you when it comes to backups.
But printing off a wallet and cloning a hard drive is another step average people aren’t willing to do. I get the impression you’re tech savvy, as an I but the average consumer is not. Most people want a computer to be like a fridge or a toaster. Plug it in, it works. Use whenever I want. Make my toast. Chill my milk. Load those memes. It’s not so much the coins fault as it is the coins flaw the time it requires more work to use properly. People are LAZY. Devices and services that aid them to be lazier do well. More intensified use of something falls to niche markets.
Government banning things doesn’t tend to work out well either. Alcohol prohibition failed miserably. The war on drugs is a joke and weed is legal here and in several us states as well as other countries. China has banned crypto currency. But the black market always thrives. Plutonium is banned because of its use for nuclear weapons and reactors, and because of the sheeples fear of such things they’re okay with the that’s. But for the previous examples, they keep drinking, smoking and mining crypto. Laws are only a barrier when enforced and most only stop honest criminals.
I don’t see crypto in current form changing form the better. Too useful for the traders and “supreme intellectuals” who see it as a way to remove government control from their lives, as they use it on government installed internet infrastructure. Too many people able to swindle and Ponzi scheme and cheat others for their own end to make its current incarnation perfect. You basically have to start from scratch, only now you have the albatross around your neck of all this mess that’s come before.
Hardly it is a flaw. Explaining how some stupid whatsapp works is much harder than that, but that does not prevent sheeps from using it. And using it sheeps loose much more than stupid money.
Don't remember any revolutions or even any backlash on prohibition of circulation of radioactive metals. Nobody could prevent governments to state that gold is now radioactive "because of science" and cause of cancer and diarhea. And all sheeple willingly will run to the "gold utilisation points" with their gold and will immidiately report on neighbour who "harm people having gold".
Indeed. That is transaction cost flaw that should be fixed in future versions.
But still try to get the idea that people willingly go through that complexity to get that coins. If there was no demand in uncontrolled currency, people never would have been do that insane things.
Really no. Printing a wallet devirtualize cyrpto into reality. :) That paper is a complete representation of coins. You could use it like cash, just provide a password to that printed wallet.
You could even create a dozen of wallets, put some some small sum in each and print them. You literally print your own cash that have some real value.
You don't need to clone your drive, just copy only important files and that's all. For crypto the only file you need to backup is wallet.dat.
So, why they whining about crypto, if they don't want to keep it correctly? It's just like entering a plane cockpit and began to complain about complexity of controls when you "just want to fly and that's all".
And stupid. So it is illogical to pity them, when they try to use things intended for clever and not lazy people and fail. If you are lazy and stupid - don't use things you don't know how to use. Or pay somebody to use them for you.
I doubt that prohibition was real intent of government. When government really want to prohibit something, it works without problems. Again, look at radioactive materials. The picture is completely different from alcohol, drugs or even guns.
No, it is banned because it is a good and long-lasting source of energy that could make people completely energy independent. In no case government want a household that needs nothing from corporations to exist without falling to stone age.
Me too. Current version will be inevitably replaced by more advanced one. It can't be fixed. Only after few iterations crypto will be ready for use by any sheeple. It should pass its way, just like computers or other complex technologies.
As for sheeple who fall into traps of greedy swindlers who use new technologies to grab peoples money, there is nothing new at all. It happens right now with that AI crap, or "quantum computing", f.e., but only a crypto painted in black by media. Because idea of cryptocurrencies is dangerous for them. It gives people a hope of currency independence.
Been enjoying this discourse, it’s great finding someone “on the other side” and having it be civil and informative rather than the usual internet “kys you’re just on the other side of the sprectrum reeeee!” so for that, thanks! A few things, printing off crypto I also saw as ripe for fraud. If I print off the same bitcoin qr code/address/whatever for redemption by someone else, and print two of them and give them to two different people, the first one to redeem gets paid and the second guy gets screwed. Rather small amount of this happening I’m sure but it is a possibility to watch out for. Yes copying only the needed file for backup is all ya need, I was still lost in the memory of when my drives failed and I was able to simply slap the old drive with OS and data partitions back in my computer and fire it up like nothing happened. When that’s the case, yeah I strongly push a cloned drive for immediate recovery and progression to hard drive recovery tools to regain anything lost since the last backup. Having multiple drives with the same wallet or wallets on them can be hard to manage to make sure they’re all updated, keeping it simple like having two drives and copying to both is fairly easy.
People being lazy is a bad thing but when you want wide spread adoption, having it be hard and needing to be clever doesn’t get you adopted as fast or at all in some cases. These mindless sheep are easily mislead but still drive heavy dangerous cars because they made it easy to do so. Power steering, power brakes, automatic transmission, electric starter vs hand crank, power windows, all done to make life easier and as a result cars are quite popular. Older models that require manual shifting and that aforementioned hand crank are still around but far less popular. For a currency to be really useful you need it accepted everywhere. Bitcoin being like Discover charge isn’t a good thing.
Computers were once hard to use. I’m lucky and got to start using one when I was 4, but looking around now it’s the techies, gamers and those who need them who use computers. Everyone seems to think a cell phone is superior and while they’re wrong, popular opinion doesn’t require facts just a feeling of superiority. Unless digital currency is as easy as tapping your debit card or credit card and accepted everywhere across a country like fiat cash is, it will remain a niche.
Yes, there have to be some culture and trust. Just like with cash or card payments. You could call to the bank and recall your card payment or claim to the police that one who received your cash just stole it from you. But that kind of activity considered inacceptable in our society.
It could be dangerous in case you have problems with disk interface. Broken interface damage data on your working disk, you replace it with a backup one, and damage it too. Been there, saw that. To avoid this you have to clone your backup before attempt to use it to keep your data safe. With modern disk sizes it is not a very immediate thing.
Yes, and there even was a moment with Bitcoin when you could use it to buy a cup of coffee or fill a fuel tank. But that didn't last long, since transaction time rised to the level unsuitable for usual shopping. Now you still could pay with crypto for hosting, f.e., but that is not very common option. Business is ready to accept crypto as payment, but the flaws in whole system make the payments problematic.
Exactly. And that is why it couldn't express any danger for cash or other payment systems. Crypto is just not ready for that yet.
A culture of trust when the basis is anonymity seems to me to be very difficult. Ner-do-Wells like drug dealers and hitmen and human traffickers can work with such systems because its generally accepted in such situations that not only do you not need to know each other’s names that any issue with be instantly met with violence, usually deadly. And if your name becomes known, or details about you, everyone close to you is at risk as well. Not saying this is GOOD but as far as effective, well they continue this because it is.
Being online and anonymous makes trust hard. Most of us have been burned in real life multiple times and even trusting people we know well is a stretch. With tens, hundred of thousands or millions of “dollars” on the line, that trust gets harder and harder to give. With fiat currency and physical bank locations, we have ways to track down who wronged us. Our current currency system has its flaws but it’s accountability seems miles ahead. I dunno how to make crypto close, the same or better to be honest. Brick and mortar buildings like the banks for people to go to and do secure trusted transactions? Faces for the Karen’s to yell at when something goes wrong? Government backed wallets that have some level of force behind them should anyone mess with them? I don’t know. People thought MTGox was trustable due to the strength of the well known name and they got burned.
I remember when it seemed bitcoin was gonna make it and being accepted at gas pumps at some locations, and some bitcoin atms. But as you described they encountered problems and it’s kind of just disappeared. Had my big into crypto buddy touting that at the time but then never mentioned it when the problems crept up and they didn’t go widespread. I do think blockchain is interesting tech and can have good uses, in small doses. Airplane maintenance logs for example, being stored for all airports to see and update is one area it seems it could be great at.
But for currency, it seems lacklustre. Perhaps for the super savvy it can be a good money maker, but I can only say perhaps. I’ve only known a couple people in real life to delve into crypto and one lost his investment when the guy he worked with ran off with his second investment after returning the first to gain his confidence and the other makes grandiose claims of having “so much money” but never improves his real life situation with any of it over claims of needing it where it is to use for more trading or leverage or yadda yadda and always wanted me to give him just $10000 and I could expect so much returns. Yeah never gave him a red cent for him to lose.
I go to wsbets.win and look in on the apes and honestly hope for the best for them. Never met a single one of em, but hope they get some money out of the crooked system they’re playing against. I just want a fair playing field.