I can keep proving the flat earth and using FE models to explain observations
You can keep arguing for the flat earth, I agree. But proving the shape of any object requires rigorous and repeated measurement - not models or explanations of phenomena!
And sounds like you'll remain indifferent for globe or flat earth, good on ya for staying open minded
I’m more of a “globe skeptic/denier”. I lack the verified and verifiable data to determine the shape of the entire world with certainty, but I can demonstrate and conclude that it is not spherical the way we are taught. If our world’s surface is covered in 70% liquid water, it is unscientific for its shape to be spherical because the laws of hydrostatics forbid it.
Sure, technically everything is debatable,
Sadly :( Debate is to be avoided like the anti-intellectual plague it is.
but its not worth debating obvious observations by claiming we don't see what we see
Agreed. However, some would claim that is exactly what you are doing in regards to the antarctic sun! In my view, it doesn’t matter if there is or there is not. The worlds shape is unaffected by the lights in the sky.
Its just a tool, but we seem to be hung up on symantecs.
This happens. Communication is hard, and takes sustained and repeated effort from all participants!
Do you understand that this is proof?
Not in my view, no. Even if the flat earth models that existed were scientific (which they aren’t; they are closer to graphical conceptual aids) the shape of the world is the shape of the world. The lights in the sky and their motions are something else entirely. For instance, there is a perfectly sound model (that used to be more prevalent in scientific circles of the past) that defines the earth as stationary and all the lights as moving. That doesn’t demonstrate that the world is stationary any more than the current astronomical model demonstrates it’s in motion. Models are not for explanation of physical phenomena. In science, that’s what experiment is for!
Sun light on one side of globe means dark on other side. Its just common sense and critical thinking. How could both sides of globe be dark on june 22? Or Dec 22?
Surely we can imagine ways, and then build them into our contrived model. Rahu and ketu come to mind, amongst many other potential possibilities. There is a good reason why models are not used for explanation in science! That’s mythology, not science!
Thr heliocentric model doesn't explain observation and should be regarded as pure scifi fantacy
This is largely true. Sun worshippers man :(
, not a useful tool to understand reality.
No models are. That’s not what models are for! All models are wrong, some are limitedly useful (an explicit purpose the model is built for) - for a time. Explanation of phenomena or the shapes of physical objects are not among those uses.
hinders real science in the fields of geology and astronomy.
I don’t exactly see it this way. The trouble is that geology and astronomy are largely pseudoscience/mythology/religion (as you said, in the religion of scientism). They aren’t being hindered, they are just bunk and not science. In order to discern between actual science and pseudoscience masquerading as it - you must first learn what science actually is. The vast majority of us, including many practicing “scientists” are not taught this and rampant scientific illiteracy (and scientism) abounds as a result. I have found learning about science to be extremely valuable (and useful for said discernment) and wish to share what i have learned with others!
Because of this, me, an average person, knows more about our world and how it works than a conference full of astrophysicists and geologists...and that is pathetic state of our reality
This may well be true. However I would largely credit the state of our “education” (conditioning by rote under the guise of education, from childhood) as the true cause.
What makes you think that?
I can assure you - the feds cannot afford my time. What I do, I do for love - brother or sister!
Besides, the psyop (regardless of agency responsible for it) wants you NOT to study and discuss flat earth research, and I want the opposite!
I've seen all the flat earth explanations for a sun set and they bear no resemblance to physical reality.
There is no “flat earth” to receive explanations from! Most flat earth researchers are independent, and their perspectives, approaches, and conclusions vary wildly as a result! I understand that the explanations you heard were unrealistic; however, I have a realistic one for you if you are interested in hearing it!
The current model of the solar system accounts for sun sets perfectly.
But what if it was wrong despite that; wouldn’t you want to know? Models aren’t for providing explanation of phenomena... that’s what experiment is for!
The end.
I can’t and won’t force you to learn about anything, but there absolutely are other explanations that comport with reality and good reasons to suspect (and conclude) that the current model (for the solar system and many other things) is wrong!
If you are ever interested in expanding your horizons, I can assure you our conversation will be rewarding as long as you are earnest!
The sun does set, but not because the curve of the earth gets in the way of it!
Please join us on the community I created to discuss such topics to learn about and explore other possibilities (than the one we are taught to dogmatically repeat from childhood)!
Seriously though, it's like chatting with the indoctrinated members of a cult.
True. That’s the flat earth psyop :(
I'm open to real discussions that bring actual facts to the surface, because not one of us knows everything, about everything.
Please join us to do just that on the community i created specifically for it!
Click my username and find the link, or let me know and i’ll pm it to you.
The whole thing is obviously fake and gay.
That’s the flat earth psyop. It is designed to make sure you know how stupid it is so you will never seriously evaluate or discuss it further.
The subject/discussion is extremely valuable which is precisely why they spend so much money advertising why it’s too stupid for you to bother with :(. Methinks the woman doth protest too much...
There is no discussion to be had.
Well not with that attitude - obviously not! You might be surprised if you stopped by the community I created for such discussion and engaged, however!
Is it dumb to question and rationally criticize what you are taught, or is it dumb to blindly repeat it and flatly declare everyone of a differing perspective stupid?
People who question the true shape of the world are not dumb for doing so! You have most likely only met the members of the flat earth psyop. Flat earth researchers, on the other hand, are not dumb.
there is zero incentive for me to take on the arduous task.
How about the sharing of knowledge to make the world a better place and help your fellow man? Or what about refining your own views, making them more succinct as well as exposing them to rational criticism in the hopes of further refinement/refutation?
If a flat-Earther was sane, they wouldn't be a flat-Earther. The only decent option when dealing with people like that is to ignore them.
Well, at least you admit how closed minded you are and useless to discuss with ;P
Seriously, people with zealous certainty looking for argument/debate should be ignored. However, curious and earnest students interested in discussing alternative views and having their perspectives rationally criticized/challenged should not be ignored (even, and perhaps especially, when their views appear crazy!).
Sitting around always agreeing with one another is as anti-intellectual and boring as refusing to consider you could possibly be wrong!
If you agree with any of the above, please join us on the community I created to explore, discuss, and exchange views on this subject!
Forgive me if i’ve already invited you, but please join us on the community I created to discuss and exchange such views!
Click my username to find the link, or let me know and I’ll pm it to you!
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Circular is not the same as spherical. The objects you are observing could be concave as well...
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This is untrue, but popularly taught. It seems that the author of the legend of sleepy hollow is (at least partially) responsible for this myth. Virtually all educated people from, at least, ancient greece were taught the world was spherical from childhood - just like us today!
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True. Some speculate disc, some concave (we live on the inside surface) - speculations abound!
If you have an interest in the subject (which it seems you do), please join us on the community i created to explore and discuss it further! Click my username and find the link, or let me know and i’ll pm it to you.
If the earth is flat. That means there is a huge cover up, right?
Nope!
Humanity requires no “cover up” in order to be stupid and wrong as it historically always is!
So that means some of the flat earth arguments youve seen are strawmen.
Most of them, yes (though not technically “strawmen”, but false positions you are intended to repeat so that you may be easily discredited and drive others away from the subject) . The flat earth psyop is very real and heavily advertised (i.e. funded).
All real flat earth arguments are proofs.
Proofs don’t really exist outside of mathematics. The only “proof” (a subjective term) of the shape of any physical object (the earth included) is rigorous and repeated measurement of that object! “Flat earth arguments” can’t be proofs, for the same reason that the “globe earth arguments” can’t be. Arguments can never be proofs! Right?
Please join us on the community I created to further evaluate and discuss your answers if you are interested!
Flat earth is a psyOP designed to distance normies from conspiracies and alternate narratives that have merit
This is largely true, but kind of a “fringe benefit” of the psyop.
The flat earth psyop is really heavily advertised (i.e. funded) to prevent serious discussion or evaluation of this important and rewarding subject. That’s why it’s so overtly stupid (the advertised psyop)!
If you would like to learn about what flat earth research really is, why it is so important/rewarding, and why a psyop exists to advertise how stupid it is - please join us on the community I created to discuss, explore, and exchange views on such things!
They should be able to describe the Motions of objects in various mediums without depending on any gravity.....
The things you are talking about are trivial/easy.
How do you measure mass
You can’t measure things that don’t exist in reality. You can calculate them, however. Mass is merely the intrinsic weight of an object (weight minus the buoyant force).
These equations must exist
They do. But the existence of an equation proves nothing about reality.
if Gravity exists......then space time curves
Not according to newton, no.
so light follows the curve
There are no demonstrable examples of this in reality. Lights path can only be altered by direct interaction with matter.
needs more math
Math worship is a scourge. When discussing science, I prefer english (as did most all other scientists in the history of the discipline).
We should be able to devise a volumetric test which will be able to be used to discern a curve over large distances
This is an interesting idea. Even if just for the thought exercise, you should further flesh it out / refine it. Perhaps share it on the community I created to discuss such things?
It seems like the least relevant conspiracy theory to me.
Calling things “conspiracy theories” is merely a tactic to discredit them and prevent research and discussion of them... right?
It has no effect on anything in my life, anyway.
When the puritans discovered there was a “new world” to travel to - did that have no effect on their lives?
Please join us on the community I created to discuss, explore, and exchange views on this subject if you are interested!
Many feel this way, but in my view the shape of the earth has little to nothing to do with any conspiracy.
Humanity requires no assistance (conspiracy or otherwise) to be stupid and wrong as it historically always is.
Please join us on the community I created to further discuss, explore, and exchange views on this subject if you are interested!
Because there is too much stuff (largely air) in the way that diverts and/or attenuates the light!
We can’t see forever, largely because light can’t travel forever!
Join us on the community I created to further explore questions like these!
You seem to have an interest in the subject!
Please join us to further explore it and exchange our views on the community I created for that!
Click my username and find the link, or let me know and i’ll pm it to you.
Everything (with charge) is magnetic!
But the magnetic field of the earth is nowhere near strong enough to stop gas from expanding into an available volume / reach pressure equilibrium - as you no doubt already know.
Please join us on the community I created to explore and exchange our views on this subject!
It’s because of weight, an intrinsic and inexorable property of all matter!
Pressure is derived (almost entirely) from the column of weight above it. When there is less matter in the column, the pressure is lesser (pascals law).
The pressure/density gradient exists in all matter in the vertical axis for this reason.
Please join us on the community I created to further discuss, explore, and exchange views on topics like this!
Gas has mass. There's no reason gravity should have no effect on it.
There is if mass and gravitation are entirely mathematical fiction with no reality outside of equation! It is not coincidence that when combined they annihilate each other and return to the real and measured weight they began as!
Strawman
If it is a strawman, who are they falsely attributing the view to and when do they intend to burn it down for rhetorical purpose?
Another odd coincidence is the sun being exactly far enough away from us to be the same size as the moon in the sky
There are many such coincidences ;) The three body problem has no solution, nor did it ever.
I think I’ve invited you before, but all the same - please join us on the community I created to further explore, discuss, and exchange views on these topics!
You seem to have an interest in the subject, and have given it some thought!
Please join us on the community I created to exchange our views, approaches, and findings on this important subject!
Click my username and find the link, or let me know and i will pm it to you.
Well you didn’t learn that from me!
Equations are just equations. Math is merely a descriptive symbolic language.
Phenomena, like falling for instance, are phenomena! They are real because we can observe and measure them, not because we can describe them in one language or another. Indeed we can describe many things (phenomena included) that do not exist to observe, and are not real. Gravitation and mass are two such examples. As I said, it is not coincidence that they annihilate one another and return to the real and measured weight they began as!
I know that this has been your experience. In general, there are no flat earthers. You have been misinformed/misled by a psyop. I am a flat earth researcher, and I care about science deeply. There are good reasons and justifications for my statements that only require your interest and time to understand.
I think they are earnestly describing their understanding of the conventional astronomical model, and are not doing so for rhetorical purpose. A strawman is for the purpose of making your opponent in a debate look stupid by attributing false (and contrived) stupid views to them and then handily defeating (setting fire to the strawman/effigy) them to convince onlookers. I don’t think that is what they are doing here.
All the original ones do. Newtons did, for instance. That’s one of the reasons he invented our modern concept of the “vacuum of space”. He understood that if space were not entirely empty - then collision would upset and change the clockwork heavens which he knew from 1000’s of years of available astronomical recording did not take place. I am aware that modern models do suggest that orbits change over time, but there is precious little observation to actually support these assertions.
Archeoastronomy flatly refutes such assertions, as does the antikythera device and epicycles which are still used today for prediction of eclipses (and other things) in the most sophisticated models available.
That may be, but it isn’t a strawman (if the above is truly your view).