I'm agnostic on the subject, but see some good (and bad) arguments on both sides. (This is just how I view the different arguments, I could be missing something.)
Water is flat argument is flawed by droplet of water, water meniscus surface tension would hold water together in a round shape as it does in free fall state. There is video of water in fake 'space' (which is probably filmed in a free fall location showing large balls of water floating and held together. those videos don't appear to be cgi and also work with water and know it's surface tension is a strong force. - no point awarded to firmament earth.
Laser measurement of large lakes or Suez Canal showing the expected drop in height due to curvature does not exist, -point goes to firmament earth.
Eclipse w/ Sun and Moon the same size give low probability of natural occurrence of 2 objects at dramatically unequal distances being the exact same size (93 million miles and 239000 miles, sun and moon respectively). -point goes to firmament earth but a bit more circumstantial or probabilistic.
Idea that atmosphere can't exist in vacuum of space and that this disproves ball earth - atmospheric pressure drops w/ elevation which can be observed at high elevations with either pressure gauge or just breathing. for example 4000m in altitude is a loss of ~40% pressure. at some point the pressure approaches zero. -no point awarded to firmament earth.
Observation of moon showing plane of focus closer than expected for 239000 mile distance - point firmament earth.
In southern hemisphere the moon rises in the sky 'upside down' from the orientation that it is observed in the northern hemisphere (i've witnessed this in australia). this did not occur in europe, north america, asia (which i've also witnessed). i don't see how this rotation and orientation is explained on the firmament earth model.
If the earth is flat. That means there is a huge cover up, right?
Nope!
Humanity requires no “cover up” in order to be stupid and wrong as it historically always is!
So that means some of the flat earth arguments youve seen are strawmen.
Most of them, yes (though not technically “strawmen”, but false positions you are intended to repeat so that you may be easily discredited and drive others away from the subject) . The flat earth psyop is very real and heavily advertised (i.e. funded).
All real flat earth arguments are proofs.
Proofs don’t really exist outside of mathematics. The only “proof” (a subjective term) of the shape of any physical object (the earth included) is rigorous and repeated measurement of that object! “Flat earth arguments” can’t be proofs, for the same reason that the “globe earth arguments” can’t be. Arguments can never be proofs! Right?
proofs dont exist outside of mathematics...oh jez.
Not objectively. Proof is very personal/subjective! That’s all I meant.
proof can be defined lots of ways, but in the end, it means undeniable fact
Right, that is kind of my point. There is no such thing as an undeniable fact, or a fact that does not deserve/warrant doubt/scrutiny/skepticism. Facts are merely claims declared as true by our authorities. They are arbitrary, and generally speaking - incorrect. It is merely a question of how long we must wait until we recognize why. It’s called “the half life of facts” and is a very important concept to become familiar and comfortable with. Doubt is the mother/driver of knowledge and science.
Beyond that, people are a subjective/mythological/religious/superstitious lot. It is painfully trivial to deny any fact - true or not - at a whim. This is one of the reasons that we must be ever vigilant to identify and excise belief (aka bias) within us, including the belief that what we think we know is inerrant/infallible. We must do this to have even the slim chance of objective study of reality and to know.
because you are still thinking that globe earth could be possible, and its not as i have shown in our discussion
Not me personally, no - but many/most are! Helping them to recognize why the globe model we are taught to accept is incorrect and how we can demonstrate that is very important and involves a LOT of discussion (typically). Still, we cannot force them - they must want to learn and choose to do so for themselves. No discussion can provide proof to another (even when/just because it serves as proof for you)
You think all flat earth content is psyop because earth is not flat,
I don’t feel that way at all! What have I said that made you think that?
and that makes you blind to the real flat earth content and getting it confused with the funded flat earth psyop designed to throw people off.
There is precious little “real flat earth content” but it does exist out there - and is typically individuals conducting their own independent research (no mass exposure via youtube or otherwise) for their own knowledge/edification. The rule of thumb is - if they are popular / well known / profitable, they are agents and/or useful idiots of the psyop. The psyop doesn’t just throw people off, it drives them away from earnest research and discussion thereof as well as encourages them to swallow and repeat stupid and clearly untrue things to further discredit the valuable endeavor/subject.
because its too time consuming
It is very time consuming, but it is of benefit for them as well as us! It helps to refine our own ideas/knowledge and to make it more succinct. It is an invaluable exercise for all involved. But it does take significant time. Time well spent in my view!
I'm agnostic on the subject, but see some good (and bad) arguments on both sides. (This is just how I view the different arguments, I could be missing something.)
Water is flat argument is flawed by droplet of water, water meniscus surface tension would hold water together in a round shape as it does in free fall state. There is video of water in fake 'space' (which is probably filmed in a free fall location showing large balls of water floating and held together. those videos don't appear to be cgi and also work with water and know it's surface tension is a strong force. - no point awarded to firmament earth.
Laser measurement of large lakes or Suez Canal showing the expected drop in height due to curvature does not exist, -point goes to firmament earth.
Eclipse w/ Sun and Moon the same size give low probability of natural occurrence of 2 objects at dramatically unequal distances being the exact same size (93 million miles and 239000 miles, sun and moon respectively). -point goes to firmament earth but a bit more circumstantial or probabilistic.
Idea that atmosphere can't exist in vacuum of space and that this disproves ball earth - atmospheric pressure drops w/ elevation which can be observed at high elevations with either pressure gauge or just breathing. for example 4000m in altitude is a loss of ~40% pressure. at some point the pressure approaches zero. -no point awarded to firmament earth.
Observation of moon showing plane of focus closer than expected for 239000 mile distance - point firmament earth.
In southern hemisphere the moon rises in the sky 'upside down' from the orientation that it is observed in the northern hemisphere (i've witnessed this in australia). this did not occur in europe, north america, asia (which i've also witnessed). i don't see how this rotation and orientation is explained on the firmament earth model.
Nope!
Humanity requires no “cover up” in order to be stupid and wrong as it historically always is!
Most of them, yes (though not technically “strawmen”, but false positions you are intended to repeat so that you may be easily discredited and drive others away from the subject) . The flat earth psyop is very real and heavily advertised (i.e. funded).
Proofs don’t really exist outside of mathematics. The only “proof” (a subjective term) of the shape of any physical object (the earth included) is rigorous and repeated measurement of that object! “Flat earth arguments” can’t be proofs, for the same reason that the “globe earth arguments” can’t be. Arguments can never be proofs! Right?
Not objectively. Proof is very personal/subjective! That’s all I meant.
Right, that is kind of my point. There is no such thing as an undeniable fact, or a fact that does not deserve/warrant doubt/scrutiny/skepticism. Facts are merely claims declared as true by our authorities. They are arbitrary, and generally speaking - incorrect. It is merely a question of how long we must wait until we recognize why. It’s called “the half life of facts” and is a very important concept to become familiar and comfortable with. Doubt is the mother/driver of knowledge and science.
Beyond that, people are a subjective/mythological/religious/superstitious lot. It is painfully trivial to deny any fact - true or not - at a whim. This is one of the reasons that we must be ever vigilant to identify and excise belief (aka bias) within us, including the belief that what we think we know is inerrant/infallible. We must do this to have even the slim chance of objective study of reality and to know.
Not me personally, no - but many/most are! Helping them to recognize why the globe model we are taught to accept is incorrect and how we can demonstrate that is very important and involves a LOT of discussion (typically). Still, we cannot force them - they must want to learn and choose to do so for themselves. No discussion can provide proof to another (even when/just because it serves as proof for you)
I don’t feel that way at all! What have I said that made you think that?
There is precious little “real flat earth content” but it does exist out there - and is typically individuals conducting their own independent research (no mass exposure via youtube or otherwise) for their own knowledge/edification. The rule of thumb is - if they are popular / well known / profitable, they are agents and/or useful idiots of the psyop. The psyop doesn’t just throw people off, it drives them away from earnest research and discussion thereof as well as encourages them to swallow and repeat stupid and clearly untrue things to further discredit the valuable endeavor/subject.
It is very time consuming, but it is of benefit for them as well as us! It helps to refine our own ideas/knowledge and to make it more succinct. It is an invaluable exercise for all involved. But it does take significant time. Time well spent in my view!