1st - What a post. Good on ya! Upvote for the effort alone !
2nd - Sure .win saw everything that happened at the reddit subs so it wont happen here. Just as the reddit subs, saw what happened to reddit proper, so it wont happen there - but did. Just as Reddit proper saw what happened to Digg so it wont happen there - but did. Just as Digg saw what happened to slashdot so.... Get my point? And this claim that it wont happen to .win, while it is happening is a bit much - no?
I am well aware of Omega Canada and Hamsandwich, which was a problem on Reddit, long before any .win transfer.
Whether FE is discussed here or on c/FlatEarthResearch doesn't matter in terms of censorship.
- The exact same argument was used to purge all the right leaning people from r/politics on reddit, and then from r/libertarian, and all the others. Respectfully, you are completely ignoring history. We all watched happen, what you are claiming doesnt happen. Like him or not Chomsky was right, think of it like a broken clock if you must, but right is right. Especially so when history proves it time and again.
The problem is always people trying to control others. One group is doing that, one is arguing against it.
Why dont you tell me about .win, and why this doesnt go the same way as it always has?
My point is censorship is bad. History is quite clear on this - and those refusing to see it, I have to wonder why they cant see it?
We arent turning anything, that is just the nature of truth seeking. There is always more noise than signal. Those that want you ignorant, can always increase the noise - only those willing to walk through the noise to get to the signal will find truth. That is the simple truth, and always has been.
I dont think that fits the definition of gatekeeping. Gatekeeping is telling people what they can/cant find, what is/isnt dumb, etc...
Out of the two sides - one IS gatekeeping, but it isn't the ones trying to stop the censorship.
A broken clock is right twice a day - and only a fool gets caught up on who says something, over what is said. Which really underlines the point I have been making here in regards to the importance of questioning your own bias and the issues with censorship.
If Biden said 2 + 2 = 4, do you abandon math? How very silly, IMO.
Ohh, so there was a vote? Well then, that shows free speech. Democracy for the win!
Those of us old enough online have watched this exact thing play out. Whether it is slashdot, or boingboing, or Digg, later we watched the same thing happen to Reddit, then spread through Reddit subs, and FB and Twitter... the dividing, siphoning censoring..But apparently we haven't learned enough from history yet.
Finally, to answer your question regarding how many people left Vs stayed/came.. that is just another deflection IMO, because - What difference does that make? Is this a place to be popular, or share conspiracy theory ideas?
If it isn't a popularity contest(and it isn't) then your point is moot. Its about the ideas, not popularity. If people are offended at some truth - does it cease to be truth?
Those "truth seekers" who cant be bothered to sift through the noise to get to the signal - aren't ready for the journey yet, they are tipping their toe in, they will come and go until they themselves are ready, not when there is no more craziness around crazy conspiracy theories.
Watch what happens this time, as it has happened everytime - and then hopefully next time, those that are pushing for this(in good faith) are smarter next time. Of course, next time there will be all the new ppl that will not have learned this lesson, and you will be forced to watch on in disgust as we make the same mistakes all over again, and again, and again..
The most pertinent lesson in history, is that men don't learn the lessons of history.
Im off to the country side. Good luck to you all.
That is a very fair point, but I think old school Chomsky would disagree with you on the "opposite of censorship". I believe it would be his position that when you separate those things out you are censoring the separated one.
Paraphrasing him: "To give the illusion of free speech is very easy. First you decide what can be said within a desired band. Then you promote active, vigorous debate and discussion within that narrow band. When someone tries to speak outside of that band, claim it is harmful/dangerous/*ist/etc and when they complain about free speech, you point to the great discussion in the allowable area".
And just like that people are snowed into thinking one thing, when in reality the opposite is true.
Deflection of point - Much more sus.
Tell me, how much censorship is required before you feel safe?
Or you can become smarter and be able to discuss ideas you dont like/agree with?
Again, you arent behaving like a good guy here. Why not go to reddit? Is it that it is someone else telling people what they can say, when in reality it should be YOU telling people what to think!!! Right? Be better my friend.
It sure is. The question is why dont you like it?
Why cant you disprove it?
It is done easy enough - so why the caterwauling and pearl clutching from those that seem to think it is both at the same time a fringe, kooky idiot theory - and also - dangerous enough to violate the founding principles of this place?
Makes no sense, and when things like this make no sense - it is about control. Which makes you... not the good guy.
Absolutely that is a concern. If someone was awake enough to think something like 911 didn't smell right, and came here to only see things about lasers, and drones and holograms they would rightly think the entire sub was batshit insane. But again - so what?
When the people that state those things say it, counter it with logic, reason and rationality.
Lets go back to the FE. It takes all of 30 minutes to prove to yourself the shape of the earth. There is no counter argument for 90% of the proofs of a globe. Logic, reason and rationality FTW !
IMO anyway. lol. Be well, now I am really leaving. Thanks for the convo!
Muddy waters or not - the water remains.
No one interested in the truth, should worry about those not interested in it. Those bad actors are, maybe, just ignorant. Maybe they are just learning? Maybe they are every bit as horrible as you fear. So what? Logic, reason and rationality shines the light on all ideas equally - and the ignorant, novice and bad takes are all exposed. Censorship denies all of us of that truth.
If you censor those that think the FE is real, Why not the moon landing? Why not the JFK thing? Where does it stop?
I get it, its annoying - but it is the path of many waking up. When you first started waking up, I bet you had many discussions that if you now think back on you'll cringe over.
Anyway, I got to get back to work now. All the best, and keep up the good fight !
Im not disagreeing that things can be done better - but to stop/censor them, because they arent up to some arbitrary snuff seems self defeating to me.
I get your frustration. I truly do. Those that claimed no planes hit the towers or that they were lasers were annoying, they deflected from real questions, etc, etc, etc.. I don't disagree with what you see. At this point we are likely in 100% agreement.
My concern is that talking is always better than not talking. Many people haven't been at this as long as members here, or those that are "awake" and those first steps are crucial for breaking free of the conditioning. Sure the first steps are awkward, filled with silliness - but if they are mocked, ridiculed and censored when they step out -they will never come back, they will never get the logic, rationale and reason that disproves most of the conspiracy or mainstream theories. They are a lost soul. That bothers me.
Does that make some sense?
You are missing the point I think, respectfully.
Allow me to explain. When teaching kids how to "debate", the first thing you do is give them a topic that they feel passionately about one way or another. You let them argue the point they believe in, and after that is done you make they argue the counter point.
You do that, not to make them think something that they don't(as is the suggested worry here), but to make them think in a manner unusual to them, to entertain ideas not previously entertained, and to make them argue from a position they dont believe in - so they are free from their own personal biases.
THAT, imo, is the important part. Whether FE is true or not is not as important, as people exploring and confronting their own bias. Whether it is FE, or the JFK thing, or 911, or 911, or 711, or Aliens, or Reptilian overlords, or whatever..
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
What is malicious? Thinking something silly? Is thinking the moon is made of Blue cheese malicious? Would any of those freaking out of FE, freak the same over that? Or the Hollow Moon Base theory?
Right after 911 it was the same rhetoric when you suggested the government had some hand in it. All the same arguments and rationales. Its dumb, its stupid, we need to censor it... Why? Because it is dumb, it makes us look stupid, etc.. There were no planes, they were holograms, etc.
When "we" want to censor people - "we" become the bad guy.
Idiocy, both the conspiracy and mainstream variety, can only be fairly fought in the open, through logic, reason and rationality. When we censor people, we deprived all of us the benefit of seeing/using/observing logic, reason and rationality destroy a POV, and we are lesser because of that. IMO.
whether an idea is true or not, IMO, is less import than the ability to consider if the idea is true or not.
The first is believing based on being told. The second is self discovery.
A computer is accurate, but not wise.
That said, I agree that the more silly/obtuse conspiracy theory's are used to denigrate those more "serious" one, but the solution to that isn't to censor them, but to expose all theory to the rigorous examination.
This situation IS the application of censorship. By definition, and history shows this.
The question is simple - is this a place for the truth or not. All the rest is noise.
If this is a place for truth, then censorship(and yes, your sophistry doesnt change that it IS censorship) has no place here.
If the censorship wins out, as it looks like it has, then in short order this place will be no different than r/conspiracy - And for the same reason. Again.
When that happens and we all migrate to a new platform that promises Free Speech I will look forward to, once again, a certain type of person telling everyone how they have to remove the problem people, to clean up - and it isn't really censorship all over again.
The biggest lesson of history, is we apparently do not learn the lessons from history.