Jesus acknowledged that the Jews were the descendants of Abraham, but that they weren’t the “children of Abraham” or the “children of God” anymore, but the “children of the devil”. Since Abraham is not their father, but the devil is, the promises that God gave to Abraham of those blessing Abrahams children being blessed does not apply to the Jews. They rejected Christ and are the children of the devil and not Abraham.
In John 8:37 Jesus said “I know you are Abraham’s descendants”.
in vs. 38, “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[c] do what Abraham did.”
In vs 42, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God.
In vs 44, “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires.“
No it doesn’t, Egypt isn’t a divine inheritance given to the Egyptians by God.If Egypt got conquered and the people were forcibly moved out of the land like the native Americans or Jews. They wouldn’t have a right to come back 2,000 years later and displace everybody already in it in the name of God. The Jews aren’t the “children of Abraham” anymore, therefore they don’t have a inheritance.
Again, the “children of Abraham” specifically referred to those blessed by God and with the inheritance of the land of Canaan in the Old Testament. The Jews aren’t the “children of Abraham” anymore and you can only be the “children of Abraham” by believing in Jesus.
Actually, according to Is. 19:25 and context, God calls Egypt "my people" and promises they will be blessed in the end. If they were conquered and displaced they could indeed cite that promise and others to come back. If that promise were to fail God would be a liar. Arab peoples generally have tremendous promises in Ishmael, and these have been fulfilled, in fact their oil discoveries can be said to be a fulfillment of their becoming a giant family of nations.
The fact is that many nations in the Bible are given blessings and cursings and their destinies always align with the text. Nations prophesied for destruction always fall, nations prophesied for retention always return (despite displacements). The Jews may have no spiritual inheritance at large, but they retain the same rights of national self-determination as any nation, and they determine the same Biblical blessings as any other nation that explicitly has them. And the Jews IMHO get the best of the blessings and the worst of the cursings both at different times. People's inability to separate spiritual blessing for spiritual people from various national blessings for various national peoples is the whole problem.
You can't tell someone descended from Abraham that they're not descended from Abraham. You can tell them they're not doing what Abraham did (as Jesus said). But if Americans can tell Jews they're not Jews (as some do) then Jews can tell Americans they're not Americans (as some do).
No, as you quote, the text is "I know that ye are Abraham's seed" (John 8:37). The context indicates that this is one meaning of two.
Now, we could apply Greek logic to the passage when it's based on Near East nuance instead, but if we did we'd only arrive at the conclusion they are "seed" but are not "children". You don't even apply that conclusion from the plain words you quoted. But the actual text is more intended as, let's leave it ambiguous for now what you are out of respect for you, and let's challenge you that if you aspire to be children of Abraham you do what he did and you're not doing that yet. In any scenario we don't get to contradict verse 37.
I know it's a paradigm shift to get over, as it was when I got over it. But peoples have equal self-determination rights. Over 110 years Arabs and Jews have been working out their rights in the land more directly, and, funny thing, no system denying another people's rights has ever succeeded, only those that start from equal rights.
This passage is about a future time where people groups will be joined together to worship God. It can’t specifically be talking about the borders of nations because Assyria isn’t even a nation anymore. You are putting words in God’s mouth here
No, Jesus clearly says they aren’t the “children of Abraham” despite being descended from him. He specifically says Abraham is not their father, but the devil is. Lineage doesn’t matter at all anymore,
Stop debating this, Jesus himself said “Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say”. You are spiritually blinded just like Jews, open your eyes to the words of Jesus.
Stop adding words to what Jesus and God says to justify Zionism.
Well, the Bible doesn't say "Egypt" it says "Mizraim"; modern Egypt calls itself "Misr". For "Assyria" it says "Asshur", which nowadays is called "Syria". It's talking about peoples who continue to this day (Egyptians and Assyrians) and who still have nations of the same name. What happens is that churchianity sidelines all this stuff into realms like eschatology when it makes more sense on its face value. All the peoples told they would continue to exist still exist, all the peoples told they would cease to exist have ceased to exist. I'm pretty confident that applies to all nations in the Bible.
You could allegorize away the whole passage and say Egypt, Israel, and Assyria only mean classes of covenant people who will have some kind of transference relationship among them; that would be silly but it's not like it's false. But the problem is that it makes people think the straightforward literal meaning isn't true. Egypt will have a special blessing in the future and will be called "my people" as a special unique nation. That's not putting words in God's mouth, it's quoting them.
You seem to misunderstand the two meanings (which TINAE spots immediately) even as you use them yourself. When he says they are seed you agree they are descended. Then you say that doesn't count as being children because you're acting like "children" and "father" can only have one meaning. But as with words for children, Jesus also uses "father" the same way, 8:56: "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day." So he admits Abraham is their father in one sense, but he says the devil is their father in another sense. And this is perfectly consistent with their attack on his fatherhood (adoptive via Joseph; 8:41 challenges his legitimacy) while he points out his greater Father is God. Everyone knew "father" had multiple meanings. But you don't.
So I'm not adding words at all when I say
The LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people.
Then said Jesus to those Jews .... I know that ye are Abraham's seed .... Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day.
But you are adding words when you say "It can’t specifically be talking about the borders of nations because Assyria isn’t even a nation anymore", "Jesus clearly says they aren’t the 'children of Abraham'", "He specifically says Abraham is not their father", "Lineage doesn’t matter at all anymore".
You say I'm justifying Zionism, which is an argument here that I've realized for 5 years relies upon duckspeak. Nobody knows what they mean by accusing another of Zionism. I justify all peoples having equal rights of self-determination. If Zionism means such an equal right, fine, if it means some greater right than some other people, I don't follow it. I also uphold that all Biblical peoples have different rights spelled out by their national blessings and cursings, equally interpreted. If the Bible promises a blessing or a cursing, fine, but if someone interprets different promises differently, I don't follow that interpretation. Everyone here who acts like they know what Zionism is has never been able to define it in such way as to avoid the fact that these very simple rules are applied objectively the same across the board and with no respect to any meaning of Zionism. If you want to call out Zionism, criticize any person's or organization's statement or action and I'll be happy to agree or disagree with you. IMHO the Arabs got a questionable deal from Henry McMahon in 1915 but nobody goes there because Arabs haven't taken the high moral ground on it for 110 years since. The high ground would be to renegotiate from equal self-determination rights. When you hint that you don't like some national promises existing in the Bible you're acting like the Arabs, whose existence comes from a national promise to Ishmael in the Bible.
I’m sry if my respond seemed harsh. I totally understand your viewpoint and what you’re saying.
It does logically make sense for God to still favor the people he promised so much to in the Old Testament. I just think Jesus ended the privileges, but you can definitely argue he didn’t and see it another way
What are you even on about? Assyria is different from Syria. The people group exist in Iraq, Syria and all around the world. The nation of Assyria doesn’t exist today. Use your common sense, God doesn’t favor any people group over any other after Jesus. There is no land promised to any nation here and it’s just speaking of a time of fellowship and following God.
They still aren’t the children of Abraham, so the Old Testament promises don’t apply to them. We shouldn’t even be debating this.
Jesus said clearly, ““If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[c] do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things… Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say“.
Descent doesn’t matter at all, God favors nobody by giving land inheritance to any people group anymore.