I was just recently exposed to the same list of markers
Amazing, as I was writing about the three non-negotiable signatures or markers, I knew you were going to say this.
I understood that you wanted this human life to be the "last" as if this life continues forever
I can understand why you are a bit confused. Let me attempt to bring some clarity, thou it is a very complex issue. IMO, our souls live forever, in the universe death doesn't exist because after you die your soul goes up to the astral plane to the divine, the Pleroma. Which is where it came from in the first place. So you your soul can never die. All you have to do is recognize that you are the divine spark. And as we imagine, we participate in the universe, we change the universe. And we focus on a certain reality, that reality becomes manifest. It becomes reality itself. And by living in the memories of others, we become immortal like Jesus. And by constructing our lives in a way that allows for Jesus to return, we can resurrect Jesus in ourselves. I hope this makes sense. This is a secret, the secret of the universe. The secret to immortality, reincarnation, and godhood. The secret that religions have passed on through thousands of years of human history and which schools, science, government, all the powers that be (TPTB) try to suppress because is a direct threat to this reality.
But, like I said before this reality is false. TPTB want to make it real because they derive power from this reality. Everything that we've been taught in school, everything that we've learned in science class, it is complete and utter nonsense. This is what's true. You must abandon this material reality that is false. Abandon money, power, sex, fame and focus on connecting to the spark inside of you. And when you do that, the universe comes into you. Christians want to be possessed by Jesus. They want Jesus to enter them and resurrect Jesus, create the Christ consciousness in them. In the Gospel of Thomas Jesus says, "Whoever finds the meaning of these words will not taste death.". It's a simple but revolutionary statement. What Jesus proposes here is not salvation through blind faith but through inner understanding. Immortality according to him is not in the body but in the awareness that recognizes its divine origin. In another passage he says the kingdom of God is not in the sky nor in the sea. The kingdom is within you and outside of you. When you come to know yourselves you will be known and you will understand that you are the children of the living God. This teaching is deeply philosophical and very different from later Christianity.
That would imply you have some plans about death
I do. But, this is a deep rabbit hole. I probably should create a separate reply just for this. IMO, what we've been told about death isn't the full truth. Behind all the comforting stories of the afterlife, I believe lies a truth far more profound than anything we've been led to believe. Again not by accident, but by design. I don't believe death frees you, but instead recycles you. Most people, not only Christians, believe when they die they are walking into freedom, when in reality, they may be stepping into the oldest trap in the universe. If you are to believe what I just said, if the afterlife is a trap, then what happens to you when you die? And more importantly, how do you escape it? this is the question many are asking. And this is not something you find out in the Sunday church, and it's not the love and light story of the New Age movement. This is the knowledge that was suppressed, buried, and branded as heresy for a very long time. So much to say here, looks like it's best I create a separate reply and send it later.
Then TPTB don't actually exist and nothing you say is correct. I don't get why people try to claim that reality is false. Literally nobody acts like they believe it, so why bother?
I don't get why people try to claim that reality is false
Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished and he will rule over all.". This is Plato's allegory of the cave. If you don't know it, go ahead and do a search... it's a wonderful story told by Plato. The prisoner who escapes the cave and sees the real world with sunlight? At first, it's painful. It's confusing. The light blinds him. But if he persists, eventually he sees the truth. And then he returns to the cave with knowledge and wisdom that the other prisoners don't have. So the spiritual path is painful. It involves confusion and struggle. But if you persist, you will see reality as it truly is.
Here is the earlier discussion. I'm pinging u/jamesbillison (use "u/" to ping) so you two can meet each other, if you choose. Christian mystics have experiences like prior knowledge all the time so there are existing ways to talk about them safely.
And by living in the memories of others, we become immortal like Jesus. And by constructing our lives in a way that allows for Jesus to return, we can resurrect Jesus in ourselves.
That does happen .... and we carry on those who have gone before, including Jesus, in our individual consciousnesses. And yet the individual's consciousness itself has some continuation; it takes on individuation at conception, before which it could only be called a temporal plan in the Pleroma, not an extant consciousness. After death the individuation persists according to rules hard for mortals to describe; it is not spirit-body consciousness nor Pleroma consciousness but has commonalities with both.
Most people, not only Christians, believe when they die they are walking into freedom, when in reality, they may be stepping into the oldest trap in the universe.
Death certainly isn't an absolute freedom because Christians believe in a final reconciliation of all the physical and one's expression in body is not inferior to one's expression in spirit, but lateral to it. (You might like my recent inspiration on dimensions, in which the bodily and spiritual dimensions describe the same reality.) To teach that death "liberates" from the body isn't exactly Christian because of this continuing concern for the apokatastasis of the body (the "resurrection"). Now a lot of American Christianity, and all of Hollywood churchianity, teaches that death makes you an angel and that's the eternal destiny, but those who read the Bible realize that it's an "intermediate state" and there is an even more glorious new creation than the immediate spiritual state after death. The fact that one might be free from bodily corruptions doesn't free people from (1) connection to those who remain and (2) future conscious activity among them.
If you are to believe what I just said, if the afterlife is a trap, then what happens to you when you die? And more importantly, how do you escape it? this is the question many are asking. And this is not something you find out in the Sunday church, and it's not the love and light story of the New Age movement. This is the knowledge that was suppressed, buried, and branded as heresy for a very long time.
In a sense nobody escapes the trap of death, because "life is a 100% fatal STD". But the afterlife reflects the earthly life, so everything we do every day contributes to what happens after death. The Christian answer is apokatastasis (that's Paul's word, but if we asked Peter and John we'd get the same meaning). Namely, a day will come when God will reconcile everything and reveal the meaning of the experience we call physical, and the new experience will be transcendently both physical and spiritual (I'm still working on the definition of that). This is foreshadowed by credible testimonies of that transcendence manifesting in the present, such as in NDEs or in glory displays. These evidences show aspects of what will be available to all. The "rapture" concept is that some will repeat the experience attributed to Enoch and Elijah and enter the final state without any intermediate state, or any dying, and anyone can respond to this gracious offer any day by growing towards it.
So the action plan I recommend is (1) recognize Jesus Christ (the man and the divinity) as guide, (2) practice the experience of the presence of Christ every day (humorously called "rapture practice", but also consistent with glass wall experience without loss of earthly faculties), (3) actuate in God's timing the promise of greater experiences that are glorification and transfiguration, and (4) prepare for theosis regardless of whether it comes by "death" or "rapture".
You might have something very similar, or very different, but Conspiracies is a fine forum for both. We also have some discussion about experience at c/Christianity (the original Scored forum for trads) and sometimes c/ChristianAnarchism (no moderator so all professions of Christianity appear and all nonprofessions too). The new forum c/HolySeekersOfTheWay is geared for this kind of discussion but there isn't much history there, but at least it's insulated from a large chunk of the Conspiracies crowd who just isn't interested.
Ah, you got me then. Unusual to get more attention with the alt and then return under the older account. Touche! Well, we can proceed in any way you like.
Unusual to get more attention with the alt and then return under the older account
I would have continued with the alt, but I couldn't reply any longer. I tried DM, same thing... I couldn't submit any longer. Not surprising, I have been censored, blocked, banned, downvoted on every platform I have been on. And I don't recall once having said anything hateful, to incite violence, or insulting to anyone. It doesn't matter to me, I have already accepted the world I chose to live in. But they have no power over me, I'm sovereign.
we can proceed in any way you like
I think there is something we both are interested in. If the afterlife is a trap, then what happens to you when you die? And more importantly, how do you escape it?
I think if we can answer this, we would also know why we choose to be were born in the first place. I say choose, because I believe there is freedom of choice here. Last time I said it's complex, and it is. It has to be complex, because if too many souls remembered it, the prison itself would begin to crumble. By reading some of the manuscripts found at Nag Hammadi I found interesting how the Gnostics understood death, not as a doorway to freedom, but as the moment when the soul could be captured and recycled. This is the very mechanism of the trap and the hidden signs that reveal when you're being lured back into it. I'm reading testimonies of people who had near death experiences, similar to the ones who took psychedelics. They all talk about a bright light they see. Most will keep walking toward the light, unaware of who built it or why. But I question everything, in this life and I believe when I die. Perhaps the prison of the Demiurge is not confined to this world at all, but stretches even beyond death itself. A hall of mirrors tricking your soul into returning again and again, replaying life after life. What if death is not the end, not the beginning, but the greatest illusion of all? maybe these are the keys to escape the prison that has bound humanity since the very beginning. Long before our modern religions took shape, the ancient world was alive with whispers of hidden realms, rival gods, and secret knowledge, and among them, perhaps the Gnostics provided a warning unlike any other. Jesus said "The pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to.". I often thought about the meaning of this teaching. Now, I think I finally understood. A hall of mirrors tricking our soul into returning again and again, replaying life after life. What if death is not the end, not the beginning, but the greatest illusion of all?
In nearly every religion of the ancient world, whether the pagan cults of Rome or the rising Christian Church, death was portrayed as a passage into divine reward or punishment. But the Gnostics dared to say something far more unsettling, that death itself could be the snare. Other traditions carried echoes of this. In the Tibetan Book of the Dead, known as the Bardo Thodol and also known as the Chai Bardo, the soul is warned of dazzling lights and illusions that appear after death, designed to lure it back into rebirth Even the early Christian thinker, Origen, also known as Origen Adamantius, entertained the idea of pre-existence and cycles of embodiment, teachings later condemned as heresy. But why such eagerness to erase these teachings? Because fear of death is the strongest chain of all, and once a soul breaks it, it slips beyond control. A soul convinced it must return again and again to learn lessons is a soul unlikely to rebel. But a soul that remembers that it was never meant to be trapped, that it belongs to eternity, becomes dangerous. Dangerous not only to the rulers of this world, but to the Demiurge itself. I think the Gnostics understood this, that's why they saw themselves as exiles.
I have written a lot on this subject and it's getting late. It's a lot more to explore here, including the final test with the Demiurge itself. I'm just curious if you have any questions.
Amazing, as I was writing about the three non-negotiable signatures or markers, I knew you were going to say this.
I can understand why you are a bit confused. Let me attempt to bring some clarity, thou it is a very complex issue. IMO, our souls live forever, in the universe death doesn't exist because after you die your soul goes up to the astral plane to the divine, the Pleroma. Which is where it came from in the first place. So you your soul can never die. All you have to do is recognize that you are the divine spark. And as we imagine, we participate in the universe, we change the universe. And we focus on a certain reality, that reality becomes manifest. It becomes reality itself. And by living in the memories of others, we become immortal like Jesus. And by constructing our lives in a way that allows for Jesus to return, we can resurrect Jesus in ourselves. I hope this makes sense. This is a secret, the secret of the universe. The secret to immortality, reincarnation, and godhood. The secret that religions have passed on through thousands of years of human history and which schools, science, government, all the powers that be (TPTB) try to suppress because is a direct threat to this reality.
But, like I said before this reality is false. TPTB want to make it real because they derive power from this reality. Everything that we've been taught in school, everything that we've learned in science class, it is complete and utter nonsense. This is what's true. You must abandon this material reality that is false. Abandon money, power, sex, fame and focus on connecting to the spark inside of you. And when you do that, the universe comes into you. Christians want to be possessed by Jesus. They want Jesus to enter them and resurrect Jesus, create the Christ consciousness in them. In the Gospel of Thomas Jesus says, "Whoever finds the meaning of these words will not taste death.". It's a simple but revolutionary statement. What Jesus proposes here is not salvation through blind faith but through inner understanding. Immortality according to him is not in the body but in the awareness that recognizes its divine origin. In another passage he says the kingdom of God is not in the sky nor in the sea. The kingdom is within you and outside of you. When you come to know yourselves you will be known and you will understand that you are the children of the living God. This teaching is deeply philosophical and very different from later Christianity.
I do. But, this is a deep rabbit hole. I probably should create a separate reply just for this. IMO, what we've been told about death isn't the full truth. Behind all the comforting stories of the afterlife, I believe lies a truth far more profound than anything we've been led to believe. Again not by accident, but by design. I don't believe death frees you, but instead recycles you. Most people, not only Christians, believe when they die they are walking into freedom, when in reality, they may be stepping into the oldest trap in the universe. If you are to believe what I just said, if the afterlife is a trap, then what happens to you when you die? And more importantly, how do you escape it? this is the question many are asking. And this is not something you find out in the Sunday church, and it's not the love and light story of the New Age movement. This is the knowledge that was suppressed, buried, and branded as heresy for a very long time. So much to say here, looks like it's best I create a separate reply and send it later.
Then TPTB don't actually exist and nothing you say is correct. I don't get why people try to claim that reality is false. Literally nobody acts like they believe it, so why bother?
Why be an Orwellian doublethinker?
Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished and he will rule over all.". This is Plato's allegory of the cave. If you don't know it, go ahead and do a search... it's a wonderful story told by Plato. The prisoner who escapes the cave and sees the real world with sunlight? At first, it's painful. It's confusing. The light blinds him. But if he persists, eventually he sees the truth. And then he returns to the cave with knowledge and wisdom that the other prisoners don't have. So the spiritual path is painful. It involves confusion and struggle. But if you persist, you will see reality as it truly is.
More extraBiblical claims about the Savior?
So you're not actually saying reality is false, you mean something else? What definition of "reality" are we working with here, then?
Here is the earlier discussion. I'm pinging u/jamesbillison (use "u/" to ping) so you two can meet each other, if you choose. Christian mystics have experiences like prior knowledge all the time so there are existing ways to talk about them safely.
That does happen .... and we carry on those who have gone before, including Jesus, in our individual consciousnesses. And yet the individual's consciousness itself has some continuation; it takes on individuation at conception, before which it could only be called a temporal plan in the Pleroma, not an extant consciousness. After death the individuation persists according to rules hard for mortals to describe; it is not spirit-body consciousness nor Pleroma consciousness but has commonalities with both.
Death certainly isn't an absolute freedom because Christians believe in a final reconciliation of all the physical and one's expression in body is not inferior to one's expression in spirit, but lateral to it. (You might like my recent inspiration on dimensions, in which the bodily and spiritual dimensions describe the same reality.) To teach that death "liberates" from the body isn't exactly Christian because of this continuing concern for the apokatastasis of the body (the "resurrection"). Now a lot of American Christianity, and all of Hollywood churchianity, teaches that death makes you an angel and that's the eternal destiny, but those who read the Bible realize that it's an "intermediate state" and there is an even more glorious new creation than the immediate spiritual state after death. The fact that one might be free from bodily corruptions doesn't free people from (1) connection to those who remain and (2) future conscious activity among them.
In a sense nobody escapes the trap of death, because "life is a 100% fatal STD". But the afterlife reflects the earthly life, so everything we do every day contributes to what happens after death. The Christian answer is apokatastasis (that's Paul's word, but if we asked Peter and John we'd get the same meaning). Namely, a day will come when God will reconcile everything and reveal the meaning of the experience we call physical, and the new experience will be transcendently both physical and spiritual (I'm still working on the definition of that). This is foreshadowed by credible testimonies of that transcendence manifesting in the present, such as in NDEs or in glory displays. These evidences show aspects of what will be available to all. The "rapture" concept is that some will repeat the experience attributed to Enoch and Elijah and enter the final state without any intermediate state, or any dying, and anyone can respond to this gracious offer any day by growing towards it.
So the action plan I recommend is (1) recognize Jesus Christ (the man and the divinity) as guide, (2) practice the experience of the presence of Christ every day (humorously called "rapture practice", but also consistent with glass wall experience without loss of earthly faculties), (3) actuate in God's timing the promise of greater experiences that are glorification and transfiguration, and (4) prepare for theosis regardless of whether it comes by "death" or "rapture".
You might have something very similar, or very different, but Conspiracies is a fine forum for both. We also have some discussion about experience at c/Christianity (the original Scored forum for trads) and sometimes c/ChristianAnarchism (no moderator so all professions of Christianity appear and all nonprofessions too). The new forum c/HolySeekersOfTheWay is geared for this kind of discussion but there isn't much history there, but at least it's insulated from a large chunk of the Conspiracies crowd who just isn't interested.
Don't bother... that is my alt.
Ah, you got me then. Unusual to get more attention with the alt and then return under the older account. Touche! Well, we can proceed in any way you like.
I would have continued with the alt, but I couldn't reply any longer. I tried DM, same thing... I couldn't submit any longer. Not surprising, I have been censored, blocked, banned, downvoted on every platform I have been on. And I don't recall once having said anything hateful, to incite violence, or insulting to anyone. It doesn't matter to me, I have already accepted the world I chose to live in. But they have no power over me, I'm sovereign.
I think there is something we both are interested in. If the afterlife is a trap, then what happens to you when you die? And more importantly, how do you escape it?
I think if we can answer this, we would also know why we choose to be were born in the first place. I say choose, because I believe there is freedom of choice here. Last time I said it's complex, and it is. It has to be complex, because if too many souls remembered it, the prison itself would begin to crumble. By reading some of the manuscripts found at Nag Hammadi I found interesting how the Gnostics understood death, not as a doorway to freedom, but as the moment when the soul could be captured and recycled. This is the very mechanism of the trap and the hidden signs that reveal when you're being lured back into it. I'm reading testimonies of people who had near death experiences, similar to the ones who took psychedelics. They all talk about a bright light they see. Most will keep walking toward the light, unaware of who built it or why. But I question everything, in this life and I believe when I die. Perhaps the prison of the Demiurge is not confined to this world at all, but stretches even beyond death itself. A hall of mirrors tricking your soul into returning again and again, replaying life after life. What if death is not the end, not the beginning, but the greatest illusion of all? maybe these are the keys to escape the prison that has bound humanity since the very beginning. Long before our modern religions took shape, the ancient world was alive with whispers of hidden realms, rival gods, and secret knowledge, and among them, perhaps the Gnostics provided a warning unlike any other. Jesus said "The pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to.". I often thought about the meaning of this teaching. Now, I think I finally understood. A hall of mirrors tricking our soul into returning again and again, replaying life after life. What if death is not the end, not the beginning, but the greatest illusion of all?
In nearly every religion of the ancient world, whether the pagan cults of Rome or the rising Christian Church, death was portrayed as a passage into divine reward or punishment. But the Gnostics dared to say something far more unsettling, that death itself could be the snare. Other traditions carried echoes of this. In the Tibetan Book of the Dead, known as the Bardo Thodol and also known as the Chai Bardo, the soul is warned of dazzling lights and illusions that appear after death, designed to lure it back into rebirth Even the early Christian thinker, Origen, also known as Origen Adamantius, entertained the idea of pre-existence and cycles of embodiment, teachings later condemned as heresy. But why such eagerness to erase these teachings? Because fear of death is the strongest chain of all, and once a soul breaks it, it slips beyond control. A soul convinced it must return again and again to learn lessons is a soul unlikely to rebel. But a soul that remembers that it was never meant to be trapped, that it belongs to eternity, becomes dangerous. Dangerous not only to the rulers of this world, but to the Demiurge itself. I think the Gnostics understood this, that's why they saw themselves as exiles.
I have written a lot on this subject and it's getting late. It's a lot more to explore here, including the final test with the Demiurge itself. I'm just curious if you have any questions.