This is from Paul's famous Ephesus sermon in his first missionary journey, recounting the entire history of Israel. Note in context (14, 42, 44) that everyone there is keeping the same Sabbath as the historical one (27), there's no Sunday rest in sight; and the words were heard by Jews, proselytes, and Gentiles. This is where Paul lays down the dictum that when some Jews refuse him, he gives the word to Gentiles too (Rom. 11): some Jews blasphemed (45), but many Jews followed Paul (43). The right answer then is that the door has been opened to Gentiles but it is still open to Jews on exactly the same terms, namely acceptance of their Messiah and repentance of their sin. This is shown by Paul's resolution, on his return, along with other church leaders in Jerusalem, that Gentiles can enter the church by following Noah's laws and that Moses's laws need not be forced upon non-Jews because Moses is "read in the synagogues every sabbath day" (15:21). So it was the early church, not the rabbis, that rescued Noah's laws from obscurity (being Christian isn't idolatry, it's acknowledging the Father in the Son).
So it was the early church, not the rabbis, that rescued Noah's laws from obscurity (being Christian isn't idolatry, it's acknowledging the Father in the Son).
Are Noah's laws described the same way the currently proposed Noahide laws are being presented though? I'm not so sure.
Glad you chimed in. Yes, by everyone except a particular group of conspiracists. The official Jewish position is that they are against idolatry and they might rule individual Christians idolaters but to judge all of Christianity as idolatry would not honor God's name (in whatever sense you may take that). Maimonides is key on that, but he's ambiguous: he says Jesus hasn't done the work of Messiah yet, but he says if someone starts doing the work of Messiah he's a Messiah candidate, and sometimes he admits the supernatural and sometimes he rejects it. So there's no official route by which Judaism can call Christianity idolatry, nor can they officially influence Gentile courts (other than by approving them or rejecting them as legitimate courts, but then anyone can do that to anyone).
Some rabbis speak very triumphally, and so do Christians and Muslims, because in all the eschatologies the unbelievers are automatically servant-class. Christians don't talk about it much because we have an idealized millennium, but we and Christ rule with the iron rod and nations (presumably Egypt) who don't keep Tabernacles are punished with drought, so it's not like we treat eschatological unbelievers as getting full citizenship in the kingdom. So when compared there isn't too much difference between various idealisms.
If a rabbi derails Judaism (and some have) with propositions like (1) Jews should work toward political control of the world, (2) states with majority non-Jews should be forced to obey laws drafted according to the morals of Jews, (3) capital punishment for rejecting the religion of Jews is permissible, that would be basically the entirety of the anti-Noachite caricature. However if you change the word "Jews" to "Christians" or "Muslims" there are plenty advocating for that too ("restorationists" and "jihadists"). Nobody can advance that theory in a truth realm because it's inherently dehumanizing and contrary to the Golden Rule (including self-determination). Therefore treating whole classes of people as if they are seeking to advance that theory, without solid evidence, is just as unhelpful as those individuals who are actually advancing it.
The solution is the One who is Truth and he'll tell Jews, Christians, and Muslims where they're getting it wrong so that they can either join him or descend into the darkness that falsehood leads them into. And we are his mouthpiece right now.
I have been substituting Jews for Muslims in my thinking to expand it. My problem is the theory relies on rule followers and I think a lot of people are just making their own rules or not following them and it becomes anarchy, especially when it comes to outsiders of the faith.
We could even look at current circumstances in Iran, a few theories going around and confusion by design, I think, on all sides.
This is from Paul's famous Ephesus sermon in his first missionary journey, recounting the entire history of Israel. Note in context (14, 42, 44) that everyone there is keeping the same Sabbath as the historical one (27), there's no Sunday rest in sight; and the words were heard by Jews, proselytes, and Gentiles. This is where Paul lays down the dictum that when some Jews refuse him, he gives the word to Gentiles too (Rom. 11): some Jews blasphemed (45), but many Jews followed Paul (43). The right answer then is that the door has been opened to Gentiles but it is still open to Jews on exactly the same terms, namely acceptance of their Messiah and repentance of their sin. This is shown by Paul's resolution, on his return, along with other church leaders in Jerusalem, that Gentiles can enter the church by following Noah's laws and that Moses's laws need not be forced upon non-Jews because Moses is "read in the synagogues every sabbath day" (15:21). So it was the early church, not the rabbis, that rescued Noah's laws from obscurity (being Christian isn't idolatry, it's acknowledging the Father in the Son).
Are Noah's laws described the same way the currently proposed Noahide laws are being presented though? I'm not so sure.
Glad you chimed in. Yes, by everyone except a particular group of conspiracists. The official Jewish position is that they are against idolatry and they might rule individual Christians idolaters but to judge all of Christianity as idolatry would not honor God's name (in whatever sense you may take that). Maimonides is key on that, but he's ambiguous: he says Jesus hasn't done the work of Messiah yet, but he says if someone starts doing the work of Messiah he's a Messiah candidate, and sometimes he admits the supernatural and sometimes he rejects it. So there's no official route by which Judaism can call Christianity idolatry, nor can they officially influence Gentile courts (other than by approving them or rejecting them as legitimate courts, but then anyone can do that to anyone).
Some rabbis speak very triumphally, and so do Christians and Muslims, because in all the eschatologies the unbelievers are automatically servant-class. Christians don't talk about it much because we have an idealized millennium, but we and Christ rule with the iron rod and nations (presumably Egypt) who don't keep Tabernacles are punished with drought, so it's not like we treat eschatological unbelievers as getting full citizenship in the kingdom. So when compared there isn't too much difference between various idealisms.
If a rabbi derails Judaism (and some have) with propositions like (1) Jews should work toward political control of the world, (2) states with majority non-Jews should be forced to obey laws drafted according to the morals of Jews, (3) capital punishment for rejecting the religion of Jews is permissible, that would be basically the entirety of the anti-Noachite caricature. However if you change the word "Jews" to "Christians" or "Muslims" there are plenty advocating for that too ("restorationists" and "jihadists"). Nobody can advance that theory in a truth realm because it's inherently dehumanizing and contrary to the Golden Rule (including self-determination). Therefore treating whole classes of people as if they are seeking to advance that theory, without solid evidence, is just as unhelpful as those individuals who are actually advancing it.
The solution is the One who is Truth and he'll tell Jews, Christians, and Muslims where they're getting it wrong so that they can either join him or descend into the darkness that falsehood leads them into. And we are his mouthpiece right now.
I have been substituting Jews for Muslims in my thinking to expand it. My problem is the theory relies on rule followers and I think a lot of people are just making their own rules or not following them and it becomes anarchy, especially when it comes to outsiders of the faith.
We could even look at current circumstances in Iran, a few theories going around and confusion by design, I think, on all sides.
I do hope they all hear from Jesus and listen.