The Western Wall in Jerusalem, also known as the Kotel, is a site of immense religious significance for Jewish people. It is a remnant of the retaining wall that supported the Second Temple complex, which was the center of Jewish worship for centuries before its destruction by the Romans in 70 CE.
Here's a breakdown of its importance and the traditions associated with it:
Significance:
A Symbol of Connection: The Western Wall is the closest place where Jewish people can pray to the former location of the Holy of Holies, the most sacred part of the Temple. It symbolizes the enduring connection of the Jewish people to God, Jerusalem, and their heritage.
A Place of Mourning and Hope: For centuries, Jews have gathered at the wall to mourn the destruction of the Temple and pray for its restoration and the coming of the messiah. This is why it has also been called the "Wailing Wall" by some, though many Jewish people find this term to be a misnomer, as the site is also a place of great hope and celebration.
The Divine Presence: According to Jewish tradition, the Divine Presence (Shechinah) never departed from the Western Wall, even after the destruction of the Temple. This belief gives the site a unique spiritual power, and many believe that prayers offered there are especially potent.
Traditions and Practices:
Prayer: People come to the wall to pray, often touching their heads to the stones as a sign of respect and reverence. The prayer plaza is divided into separate sections for men and women, in accordance with traditional Jewish law.
Placing Notes: A well-known tradition is to write prayers, wishes, or petitions on small slips of paper and tuck them into the cracks between the stones. These notes, which have been left by people from all over the world and of many different faiths, are collected twice a year and buried in a sacred manner.
Modesty and Respect: Visitors are expected to dress modestly and men are required to cover their heads. Ki'ppot (yarmulkes) are available for free at the entrance for those who do not have one.
Celebrations: The Western Wall is also a place of joyous celebration. It is a popular location for bar mitzvahs, military swearing-in ceremonies, and national holidays. The atmosphere can be very lively, with singing, dancing, and the blowing of the shofar (ram's horn).
So what exactly was going on there, that they're praying about. What was the "problem", it sounds like centuries ago?
The central "problem" that Jews are praying about at the Western Wall is the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. This isn't just about a building; it's about the loss of the spiritual and national center of Jewish life.
Here's a little more detail on the historical context:
The First and Second Temples: The Temple was the most sacred place in Judaism for over a thousand years. The first was built by King Solomon around the 10th century BCE and was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BCE. The second was built on the same site after the Jews returned from exile and was expanded and made magnificent by King Herod the Great.
The Destruction in 70 CE: The Second Temple was the main center of Jewish worship and a hub for Jewish people from all over the world, with a system of sacrifices and rituals central to the religion. In 70 CE, after a Jewish rebellion against Roman rule, the Roman army under Titus besieged and destroyed Jerusalem, including the Second Temple. The Western Wall is the only remaining part of the original structure of the Temple Mount, the plaza on which the Temple stood.
The Aftermath: The destruction of the Temple was a catastrophic event that changed Judaism forever. It meant the end of the sacrificial system and the physical center of Jewish spiritual life. It also marked the beginning of a long period of Jewish exile and diaspora, as many Jews were killed, enslaved, or displaced.
For centuries since, Jews have mourned this loss. The prayers at the Western Wall are a way of remembering the destruction and praying for the future. The prayers are for the restoration of Jerusalem and the Jewish people, and for the reestablishment of a world with a spiritual center. This act of prayer and mourning is a symbol of resilience, a connection to a glorious past, and an expression of hope for a better future.
How come they don't just "get over" whatever the problem was, and go, ok.. let's go do something else, somewhere else.
That's an excellent and very common question, and it gets to the heart of what this mourning is all about. It's not just about a pile of stones or an old building; it's about a deep, spiritual, and historical wound. The answer to "how come they don't just get over it" lies in a few key concepts:
- The Temple wasn't just a building; it was the spiritual center of the world. In Jewish tradition, the Temple was considered the place where God's presence, the Shechinah, was most manifest on Earth. It was the nexus point between the spiritual and the physical. Its destruction wasn't just a loss of property; it was a profound rupture in the relationship between the Jewish people and God.
The prayers for the Temple's restoration aren't just about a physical structure. They are a longing for that spiritual closeness and perfection to be restored, not just for the Jewish people, but for all of humanity.
- The destruction was the beginning of a long exile. The fall of the Second Temple marked the start of the Jewish diaspora, a 2,000-year period of exile. For much of that time, Jewish people were stateless, often persecuted, and had no secure home. The mourning for the Temple is intertwined with the memory of all the suffering that followed: crusades, pogroms, the Inquisition, and the Holocaust.
The yearly fast day of Tisha B'Av, which commemorates the destruction of the Temple, also serves as a day of mourning for these other national tragedies that have befallen the Jewish people. It's a way of acknowledging that the destruction of the Temple wasn't just an isolated event, but a catalyst for centuries of hardship.
- It's a key part of Jewish identity and continuity. The act of mourning for the Temple has been a way for the Jewish people to maintain their identity and collective memory, even when scattered across the globe. It's a practice that connects generations, from the ancient rabbis who were forced to adapt Judaism after the Temple's destruction to Jews living today.
Many Jewish customs are tied to this memory. For example:
At a traditional Jewish wedding, the groom breaks a glass underfoot, often accompanied by the recitation of a verse from Psalm 137, "If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither." This is a powerful reminder that even at a moment of a family's greatest joy, the community's collective loss is not forgotten.
Some Jews leave a small section of a wall in their home unpainted or unplastered as a physical reminder of the Temple's destruction.
In essence, "getting over it" would mean forgetting a central part of Jewish history and identity. The prayers are not just looking back, but forward. They express a hope and a belief that one day, all the brokenness of the world will be repaired. For many Jews, the mourning is a necessary part of the journey toward a future of redemption.
Hold on, what did you just say there.. "The Destruction in 70 CE: The Second Temple was the main center of Jewish worship and a hub for Jewish people from all over the world, with a system of sacrifices and rituals central to the religion."
Did I just see "sacrifices". Is that like back in the old days when Yahweh had enough of humans sacrificing kids to whatever "gods", so he did the flood. When you say "sacrifices", are you talking about like the Aztecs, you know.. their pyramids, they definitely sacrificed kids.
That's a really important distinction to make. The sacrifices in the ancient Jewish Temple were animal and grain offerings, not human sacrifices. The practice of human sacrifice, particularly of children, is explicitly and repeatedly forbidden and condemned throughout the Hebrew Bible (the Tanakh).
Here’s a breakdown of the key differences:
Jewish Temple Sacrifices (Korbanot) Animal and Grain: The offerings were animals (such as bulls, sheep, goats, or doves) and agricultural products (like grain, flour, oil, and wine). The word for sacrifice in Hebrew, korban, literally means "to draw near," and the act was seen as a way for a person to draw closer to God.
Purpose: These sacrifices served various purposes, including:
Atonement: For unintentional sins. It was not a punishment, but a way to express regret and seek reconciliation with God.
Thanksgiving: To express gratitude for blessings, such as recovery from illness or a safe journey.
Worship: As a daily communal act of devotion.
Ritual: The rituals were highly specific and performed by the Kohanim (priests) in the designated areas of the Temple. The blood of the animal was used in a symbolic way, and parts of the animal were burned on the altar, while other parts were consumed by the priests or the person who brought the offering.
A clear prohibition on human sacrifice: The story of the Binding of Isaac (Genesis 22), where God stops Abraham from sacrificing his son Isaac and provides a ram instead, is a foundational story in Judaism. It is seen as a definitive rejection of human sacrifice. Later prophets and laws in the Torah explicitly condemn the practice of sacrificing children, associating it with the abominations of neighboring pagan cultures.
Aztec Sacrifices
Human Sacrifice: The Aztecs, on the other hand, are well-documented to have practiced human sacrifice on a large scale. This was a central part of their religious beliefs and cosmology.
Purpose: Aztec human sacrifices were often performed to appease deities, particularly the sun god Huitzilopochtli, who they believed required human hearts and blood to continue his daily journey across the sky. They also used it for other reasons, like crop fertility, military success, and intimidation.
Victims: The victims were often prisoners of war, slaves, or people who volunteered for the honor. The rituals were often brutal, involving the removal of the heart.
So, while both cultures used the term "sacrifice," the nature, purpose, and objects of the rituals were fundamentally different. In Judaism, the practice of sacrificing animals was a way to "draw near" to God, and it was a form of ritual worship, atonement, and thanksgiving. Human sacrifice was considered an abomination and was strictly forbidden.
So they weren't sacrificing kids.. they're sacrificing animals then, for who.. Yahweh? Is that like the Ark of the covenenant, I think they had to sacrifice an animal and sprinkle it's blood on it.
You're connecting some of the key pieces of ancient Israelite worship, and you're right to see the connection between sacrifice and the Ark of the Covenant.
Yes, the sacrifices were offered to Yahweh, the name for God in the Hebrew Bible. The practice was central to their religious life, and the Ark of the Covenant was the most sacred object in that system.
Here's how it all fits together:
The Ark as God's "Throne": The Ark of the Covenant was a gold-covered chest that was considered the physical representation of God's presence among the Israelites. It was housed in the "Holy of Holies," the innermost, most sacred room of the Tabernacle (a portable sanctuary) and later the Temple in Jerusalem. The lid of the Ark, known as the "Mercy Seat," was where God was said to dwell, "between the two cherubim" (angelic figures) on top of it.
Sacrifice and Atonement: On the most solemn day of the year, Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement), the High Priest would enter the Holy of Holies. He would perform a ritual to atone for his own sins and the sins of the entire Israelite community. As part of this, he would take the blood of a sacrificed bull and a goat and sprinkle it on the Mercy Seat of the Ark.
Why the Blood? This act of sprinkling blood was a symbolic way of cleansing and purifying the space and the people, making it possible for God to continue to dwell among them. The blood represented the life of the animal, and its offering was a ritual payment for the spiritual "debt" of sin. This was a crucial ritual to maintain the holy connection between God and the people.
You are correct that they didn't have to sacrifice an animal on the Ark itself, but the blood from the sacrificed animal was the central element of the ritual that was performed in the presence of the Ark.
This system of sacrifices and the presence of the Ark were the heart of Jewish religious life for centuries. The loss of both—the Ark disappeared before the destruction of the First Temple, and the Temple itself was destroyed in 70 CE—is why the Western Wall, the last remnant of that holy site, holds such profound meaning for Jewish people today. They are praying for a future when that spiritual connection and wholeness can be restored.
[continued in comments]
[part 3]
Was looking up baal.. is that him handing a kid to moloch?
That's a powerful and disturbing image, and it's a common one in historical and religious art.
You've connected two distinct but related terms: Baal and Moloch. In the context of ancient paganism, they were often associated with each other, and both were deeply condemned in the Hebrew Bible.
Here's the key distinction:
Baal was a primary deity in Canaanite and Phoenician religion, a storm and fertility god. The name "Baalbek" is a direct reference to him. While some of his cults were known to practice human sacrifice, the term "Baal" doesn't inherently mean "child sacrifice."
Moloch (or Molech) is the term most directly and consistently associated with child sacrifice in the Hebrew Bible. The Bible specifically warns against "passing one's offspring to Moloch," which is described as a form of idolatry and an abomination.
The Connection and Why They're Often Pictured Together:
Shared Practice: The worship of Baal, particularly in some of its forms, involved child sacrifice. The Bible itself sometimes links the two, as in the book of Jeremiah (32:35), which mentions people building "high places of Baal... to set apart their sons and their daughters unto Moloch." This suggests that the two cults were sometimes intertwined or that the practice of child sacrifice was a feature of Baal worship.
Symbolism: In many illustrations, particularly from the 19th and early 20th centuries, artists depicted Moloch as a bronze idol with a bull's head and a furnace in his belly, into which children were placed. This imagery comes from later descriptions and is often conflated with Baal. The bull was a common symbol of strength and fertility associated with Baal, so it was a natural choice for artists to represent both deities in a similar way.
So, to answer your question directly: Yes, images of "Baal handing a kid to Moloch" reflect a historical and theological reality of the time, where the worship of Baal was a major form of paganism, and the specific, condemned practice of child sacrifice was often referred to by the term Moloch.
The Hebrew Bible's intense and repeated condemnation of this practice is what makes the story of Abraham and Isaac so pivotal in Judaism—it's a story that says, "Our God does not want this. The lives of our children are sacred."
This baal guy.. what's his deal.. he's not a sub logos like yahweh?
This is a very deep theological question. In religious terms, Baal is not a "sub-logos" like Yahweh; he is fundamentally a different kind of deity.
Here's the essential difference between the two in a theological context:
Baal: A Local, Elemental God 🌩️ Nature and Role: Baal was a powerful storm and fertility god. His primary "deal" was to bring rain and a good harvest. He was seen as a key figure in the cycle of seasons, with his struggle against other gods (like Mot, the god of death) symbolizing the transition from the dry season to the fertile rainy season.
Sphere of Influence: Baal's power was considered to be tied to a specific geographic area—the land of Canaan and Phoenicia. His effectiveness was judged by his ability to provide for his followers within that region. He was part of a pantheon of gods, each with their own specific job and territory.
Theological Concept: The concept of Baal is a form of polytheism, where there are many gods, each with their own limited power. Humans "appease" him through rituals and sacrifices to ensure his favor and secure a good harvest. The relationship is transactional.
Yahweh: A Universal, Transcendent God 🌍 Nature and Role: In the Hebrew Bible, Yahweh is presented as the creator of the entire universe, not just a local deity. He is a universal, transcendent God whose power is not limited to a specific land or natural force. He is above and beyond nature, not a part of it.
Theological Concept: The concept of Yahweh is a form of monotheism—the belief in one God. The relationship with Yahweh is not seen as a transaction, but a covenant—a binding promise based on moral and ethical principles. The covenant is with a people, not a place, which is why the Jewish people maintain their identity even in diaspora.
The Challenge: The conflict between Baal and Yahweh in the Hebrew Bible, especially in the stories of the prophet Elijah, is not just about which God is more powerful. It's a fundamental theological clash between two different worldviews:
Yahweh represents a moral and ethical system based on a relationship with a single, universal, and righteous God.
Baal represents a nature-based, transactional paganism tied to local powers and often associated with immoral practices like child sacrifice.
So, in short, a "sub-logos" would imply a relationship of hierarchy—that Baal is a lesser version of the same kind of being as Yahweh. However, in the theology of the Hebrew Bible, they are not on the same continuum at all. They are two entirely different types of beings, representing two completely incompatible religious systems.
So, baal was like a "weather" god?
Yes, Baal was primarily a weather or storm god.
In ancient Canaanite and Phoenician religion, he was considered the god of storms, thunder, and rain. Because the people depended on rain for their crops, Baal was also seen as the god of fertility and agriculture. His worship was focused on ensuring a good harvest by gaining his favor.
The myths about Baal often depict him fighting other deities to establish his rule, particularly a god of death and drought, symbolizing the cyclical struggle between the fertile wet season and the arid dry season.
Well if he's dealing with the weather, must be some other gods who have power over other things like that?
Yes, that's a very accurate inference. In the polytheistic religions of the ancient Near East, the world was understood as being ruled by a pantheon of gods, each with a specific domain or sphere of influence.
Since Baal was the "weather god," there were many other gods and goddesses who had power over other aspects of life and the cosmos. Here are some of the most prominent ones from the Canaanite and Phoenician pantheon, which was the religious world Baal belonged to:
El: The head of the pantheon and the "father of the gods." He was the supreme creator deity, often depicted as a wise, old figure. He was the most important god in earlier Canaanite religion, with Baal rising to prominence later.
Asherah: The consort of El and the "mother of the gods." She was a powerful mother goddess and was often worshipped in groves of trees. The Hebrew Bible condemns her worship just as fiercely as that of Baal.
Astarte: A goddess of war, hunting, and love. She was a powerful and independent figure, sometimes associated with the planet Venus.
Yam: The god of the sea and chaos. He was a rival of Baal and represented the destructive forces of the sea and rivers. The myth of Baal's struggle and victory over Yam is a central part of Canaanite mythology.
Mot: The god of death and the underworld. In the myths, Baal fights and is temporarily defeated by Mot, which explains the cycle of seasons—when Baal (the rain god) is in the underworld with Mot, the land experiences drought.
Dagon: A god of grain and crop fertility. He was especially important to the Philistines.
Each of these deities had their own roles, temples, and rituals. The people believed that if they wanted to ensure a good harvest, they would pray to Baal. If they wanted to have children or ensure a safe childbirth, they would pray to a fertility goddess. This system was very different from the monotheistic worldview of Judaism, which taught that there was only one universal God who had authority over all of these things.
who are these guys.. is this like "gnostic" stuff?
That's an excellent question that connects two very different religious systems. The gods we've been discussing—Baal, El, Asherah, etc.—are from the ancient Canaanite and Phoenician religions, which are forms of polytheism.
The term "Gnostic" refers to a completely different set of religious and philosophical movements that arose much later, primarily in the 1st and 2nd centuries CE, in the Hellenistic world (the period after Alexander the Great).
There's a fundamental theological and philosophical difference between the two:
Canaanite / Phoenician Gods (Polytheism) Nature: They are literal, physical deities with powers over the material world. They have rivalries, families, and personalities.
Cosmology: The cosmos is made up of a material world and a divine realm where these gods live. The goal of worship is to gain their favor to live a better life in this world (e.g., a good harvest, victory in battle).
Origin: These are some of the oldest polytheistic religions in the world, rooted in agricultural and tribal societies.
Gnosticism Nature: Gnosticism is not a single religion but a variety of belief systems. The core belief is in a profound distinction between a good, transcendent, and completely spiritual God and the evil or ignorant "creator god" of the material world. This creator god is often called the Demiurge.
Cosmology: Gnostics believed that the material world was created by the Demiurge, who is often equated with the God of the Hebrew Bible (Yahweh). To them, the material world is a prison, a place of suffering and ignorance from which we must escape.
The Goal: The goal of Gnosticism is not to appease the creator god, but to escape from his creation. This is done through gnosis—a special, secret knowledge that is revealed to a select few. This knowledge allows the spiritual part of a person (the "spark of divinity") to be freed from the material body and return to the true, good, and transcendent God.
The Connection to Your Question The "negative entities" you mentioned earlier are a better fit for the Gnostic worldview than they are for Canaanite polytheism.
Canaanite gods were not seen as "negative entities" by their worshippers. They were powerful, and sometimes capricious, but they were the gods of the universe as it was understood. You made sacrifices to them to gain their favor.
Gnostic belief is where you find the idea of a malevolent or ignorant creator god (the Demiurge) and his spiritual forces (the "archons") who rule over the material world and trap human souls. This is a much closer parallel to the idea of "negative entities."
So, no, the Canaanite pantheon is not Gnostic. It's an ancient form of polytheism that was in direct conflict with the emerging monotheism of Judaism. Gnosticism is a completely different, later theological system that offered a radical interpretation of the nature of the world and God.
oh so these are Canaanite / Phoenician Gods (Polytheism).. that's the type of thing yahweh didn't like and he caused the flood. What year was this stuff going on?
That's an excellent question that gets into a key point of the biblical narrative. It's a very common misconception.
First, to clarify: In the biblical account, the reason for the flood was not specifically the worship of Canaanite or Phoenician gods like Baal. The Bible says that humanity became so wicked and corrupt that "every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time." The flood was a judgment on the general moral depravity and violence of humanity as a whole, not specifically on the worship of a particular pantheon of gods.
The Canaanite/Phoenician gods and their worship came much later in the biblical timeline.
Timeline of Key Events: The Flood: In the biblical narrative, the flood is placed at the very beginning of human history, long before the rise of the Israelite nation. The biblical genealogies would place the flood thousands of years before the time of Abraham. While a precise date is impossible to pin down, the biblical narrative treats it as a primordial, pre-history event.
The Rise of Canaanite/Phoenician Culture: The gods like Baal and Asherah belonged to a culture that rose and flourished much later. Their worship was most prominent during the Bronze Age and Iron Age, roughly from 3000 BCE to 500 BCE.
The Time of Abraham: Abraham, the patriarch of the Israelite people, is traditionally placed around 2000-1800 BCE. He lived in the land of Canaan, and the narrative describes him and his family interacting with the Canaanite peoples and their religious practices.
The Time of the Prophets: The most intense conflict between the Israelites and the worship of Baal and Asherah is described in the Hebrew Bible during the period of the Israelite kingdom, around 1000 BCE to 500 BCE. Prophets like Elijah and Jeremiah were the ones who most famously railed against this form of idolatry.
So, to summarize: The flood was a judgment on a much earlier, universal form of human wickedness. The intense conflict with the specific gods like Baal happened much later, after the Israelite people had settled in the land of Canaan. The Hebrew Bible frames this conflict as a struggle between two incompatible ways of life: the monotheism of Yahweh versus the polytheism of the local pagan cultures.
[continued in part 4]