This is gonna be a pretty long one but you got conspiracy going on in this stuff. Like it's pretty bad. The quran has the Jesus dude in it but when he was going to get crucified, Yahweh switches him out with Judas, that ratted on him and he's the one who gets hanged. They say there was no resurrection.
This is a bit like a channeled book like the 80's Ra material. You get odd stuff though like what's going on in the bible with the rapture at the end. The Allah dude is like Yahweh and I know all about that, eh. So it seems like similar stuff. Let's get into it and continued in lots of comment parts.
Hold on here.. though.. see I originally thought this Mohammed guy was like an Arab Jesus.. lol. No. He's just some dude that tripped out. lol. But what's going on here.. is similar to the Bible.. you get yahweh that wants us to know this stuff, eh. That's back in the good old days when he used to step in with his operation. Now he doesn't give a flying fuck at all. lol.
But yeah.. so this Allah dude is actually Yahweh.. but it's the arab way of talking about it. Same dude. I've been analysing yahweh over the years and he's got issues. lol. Let's get into this stuff here.
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the quran.. what's the story in there. Like the Arab Jesus but he didn't get crucified? What happend to this mohammed guy.
The Quran, which Muslims believe is the final revelation from God, contains its own narrative on these key figures of Islam. The stories of both Jesus and Muhammad are central to the faith, but they differ significantly from what is found in Christian traditions.
Jesus in the Quran In the Quran, Jesus is known as Isa (or Isa ibn Maryam, "Jesus, son of Mary"). He is revered as one of the most important prophets and is considered the Messiah (Al-Masih).
A Miraculous Birth: The Quran affirms that Jesus was born to the Virgin Mary through a miraculous act of God. It describes the angel Gabriel announcing to Mary that she would give birth to a son, even though she was a virgin.
A Prophet and Messenger: Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet sent by God to the Children of Israel to confirm the teachings of the Torah and bring the Gospel (Injil). He is said to have performed many miracles, such as healing the sick and raising the dead, all "by God's permission."
The Rejection of Crucifixion: This is the most significant difference from the Christian narrative. The Quran explicitly states that Jesus was not killed or crucified. Instead, it says, "it was made to appear so to them." The belief is that God raised Jesus directly to himself, and he did not die on the cross. Muslims believe that Jesus will return to Earth before the Day of Judgment to establish justice.
The Prophet Muhammad Muhammad is considered the final prophet in Islam, a messenger who received the Quran from God.
Life and Mission: Muhammad was born in Mecca around 570 CE. He was a merchant who, at the age of 40, began receiving divine revelations through the angel Gabriel. These revelations, which continued throughout his life, form the text of the Quran.
Spread of Islam: After facing persecution in Mecca, Muhammad and his followers migrated to the city of Medina in 622 CE. This event, known as the Hijra, marks the beginning of the Islamic calendar. In Medina, Muhammad established the first Muslim community and grew in influence, eventually returning to Mecca as a conqueror in 630 CE.
His Death: The Prophet Muhammad died in 632 CE in Medina after a brief illness. He is buried there in what is now a part of the Prophet's Mosque, a major pilgrimage site for Muslims. Unlike Jesus in the Quranic narrative, there is no ambiguity about his death. He lived a full life and died a natural death.
so what exactly did this guy do.. doesn't sound like miracles.. but yeah.. jesus is in the quaran?
Your question gets to a key difference between Islam and other monotheistic religions. While Jesus is a central figure in both Christianity and Islam, his role and nature are viewed very differently.
Jesus in the Quran You are correct that Jesus is in the Quran. He is mentioned by name over 25 times and is a highly revered prophet. In Islam, he is known as Isa (or Isa ibn Maryam, "Jesus, son of Mary") and is considered the Messiah. Muslims believe he was born to the Virgin Mary through a miracle of God and was sent to the Children of Israel to bring the Gospel (Injil) and confirm the Torah. The Quran describes him as having performed many miracles, such as healing the sick and raising the dead, but always with the permission of God.
However, the Quran rejects the Christian belief that Jesus is the son of God or part of a Trinity. He is seen as a great prophet, but still a human being and a servant of God.
Muhammad's Role You noted that Muhammad's actions don't sound like "miracles" in the traditional sense, and that's an important distinction. The primary "miracle" of Muhammad in Islam is the Quran itself. Muslims believe that the Quran is the verbatim word of God, revealed to Muhammad, an unlettered man, over a period of 23 years. The text is considered inimitable and a direct sign from God.
Beyond receiving the Quran, Muhammad's role was to establish the religion and the community of Islam. He:
Preached Monotheism: He called for a return to the worship of one God (Allah) and rejected the polytheistic practices common in pre-Islamic Arabia.
Established a Community: After facing persecution in Mecca, he and his followers migrated to Medina, where he became a political and spiritual leader, uniting different tribes and establishing the first Muslim state.
Provided a Moral Example: His life, actions, and sayings (known as the Sunnah and Hadith) are considered a perfect example for Muslims to follow in all aspects of their lives—from prayer and family relations to business and justice.
ok so he was just a dude that got like this download of information and he transcribed it to the quaran
That's a good way to put it, as long as you understand the nuance. From an Islamic perspective, it wasn't just a "download" in a passive sense. It was a profound, and often physically intense, process of divine revelation.
Here's how Muslims understand the process:
The Medium of Revelation: The revelations were not directly from God to Muhammad in a conversational way. They came through the Angel Gabriel (Jibreel in Arabic). Gabriel would bring the exact words of God to Muhammad.
The Experience: The experience of receiving a revelation was described by Muhammad himself as being very difficult. His companions noted that he would sometimes sweat profusely, even on a cold day, and a heavy feeling would come over him. It was a state of intense spiritual concentration and transformation.
Dictation, not Transcription: Since Muhammad, according to Islamic belief, was unlettered and could neither read nor write, he couldn't have just "transcribed" the information. Instead, he would immediately recite the verses to his companions, who would then memorize them and write them down on whatever materials were available at the time, such as leather, stones, or palm leaves.
Gradual Process: The revelations did not come all at once. They were revealed in stages over a period of 23 years, from the time he first began receiving them until his death. The verses often came in response to specific events, questions, or needs of the early Muslim community. This gradual process allowed the teachings to be absorbed and implemented over time.
So, while the end result was a book—the Quran—it's viewed as the direct, verbatim word of God, not something Muhammad composed or merely "transcribed." His role was to receive the message, convey it accurately, and embody its teachings as a living example for humanity.
ok.. damn.. he wasn't even able to read or write but he'd have this Angel Gabriel tell him stuff.. then he'd say what he was experiencing and his buddies were the ones who wrote it down
That's exactly the core of the Islamic belief regarding the revelation of the Quran.
You've captured the key components:
The Messenger: Muhammad, who was unlettered (unable to read or write), and therefore, from a religious perspective, an unlikely candidate to author a book of such literary complexity and scope.
The Medium: The Angel Gabriel acting as the intermediary, delivering the divine message.
The Process: Muhammad would receive the revelation and immediately recite it.
The Scribes: His companions, who were literate, would listen, memorize, and write down the verses, creating the first written copies of the Quran.
This account of the revelation is central to Islamic theology and serves as a powerful argument for the divine origin of the Quran. The fact that the prophet was unlettered is seen as proof that the text could not have been his own work, but must have come from a higher source.
This is kind of interesting though how the Jesus dude was in their book.. but they're saying he was just a prophet and not this son of god or something, eh?
Yes, that is a very astute observation and it gets to the heart of the theological differences between Islam and Christianity.
The way Jesus is portrayed in the Quran is one of the most interesting and significant aspects of Islamic belief. He is not a minor figure; he is central to the line of prophets. Muslims hold him in great reverence, but their understanding of him is fundamentally different from that of Christians.
Prophet, not Deity: In the Quran, Jesus is consistently referred to as a messenger and prophet of God, in the same line as Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Muhammad. He is given special titles like "the Messiah" and "a word from God," and his miraculous birth is affirmed. However, these titles are interpreted in a way that does not elevate him to a divine status or make him the literal son of God.
The Concept of "Shirk": The Islamic belief system is built on the absolute oneness of God (known as Tawhid). The idea of God having a son or being part of a trinity is seen as a form of shirk, which means "associating partners with God." In Islam, this is considered the most serious and unforgivable sin. The Quran explicitly states that Jesus was a servant of God and that he himself never claimed to be divine.
The Role of Other Prophets: For Muslims, all the major prophets, including Jesus, brought the same core message: to worship the one true God alone. The Quran argues that over time, the messages of earlier prophets were distorted or corrupted by people. Thus, Muhammad was sent as the final prophet to restore and perfect the original, pure message of Islam.
So, while Christians see the crucifixion and resurrection as the central events of Jesus's mission—the means by which humanity's sins are forgiven—Muslims see his life as a powerful example of a prophet, and the Quranic denial of his crucifixion serves to preserve the principle of God's absolute power and Jesus's status as a human prophet. It's a fascinating example of how two major world religions share a key historical figure but interpret his life and purpose in profoundly different ways.
I don't think most people who are christian even know the jesus dude is in this arab bible..
You've touched upon a really important point. It's true that for many Christians, especially those who aren't deeply involved in interfaith studies or dialogue, the idea of Jesus being a significant figure in the Quran comes as a surprise. The religious narratives are so different that there's a general lack of awareness about this shared figure.
Here's why that might be the case and how the two perspectives can be seen in light of one another:
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The Centrality of the Narratives: For Christians, the core of the faith revolves around the divinity of Jesus, his crucifixion, and his resurrection. These events are seen as the means of salvation. Since the Quran denies the crucifixion and resurrection, it fundamentally changes the narrative in a way that is difficult for many Christians to reconcile with their own beliefs. This denial of a central tenet can lead to a sense that the Quranic account is "wrong" or irrelevant, without necessarily knowing the details of what it actually says.
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Focus on Divergence, Not Convergence: In much of the public conversation about Christianity and Islam, the focus is on their differences—the nature of God (Trinity vs. absolute oneness), the role of Jesus (divine Son vs. Prophet), and the final authority (Bible vs. Quran). The points of convergence, like the virgin birth and Jesus's role as a miracle-working messiah, are often overlooked in favor of the more contentious theological divides.
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Historical and Cultural Distance: For centuries, Christianity and Islam have developed in different cultural and theological contexts, often with limited exposure to each other's sacred texts. The popular understanding of each religion is often shaped more by media, politics, and historical conflicts than by an accurate knowledge of their foundational texts.
Despite these differences, there is a growing field of interfaith dialogue where scholars, theologians, and regular people from both faiths are exploring these shared stories. They find that the Quran's portrayal of Jesus can serve as a bridge, a point of common ground that allows for mutual understanding and respect, even if the core beliefs about his ultimate nature remain distinct.
[Continued in comments]
[part 5]
ok so it's the seventh day guys who are into this literal 144,000.. Where, some people 'll just vanish before the calamity. I thought it would be the 144k that'd do that but they're special and have to hang out during the explosions to try and rescue the rest who were bad
Your understanding of the two concepts is slightly mixed up, and it's a very common point of confusion. Let's clarify the different beliefs.
The Rapture and the 144,000 The idea of people "vanishing" before the calamity is a specific Christian belief known as the Rapture. This concept, which is not mentioned by name in the Bible but is inferred from passages in Thessalonians and Corinthians, is held by many evangelical and fundamentalist Christians. The belief is that at the end of time, Jesus will return, and all true believers, living and dead, will be taken to heaven instantly to be with him and escape the coming tribulation on Earth. This is the group that "vanishes."
The 144,000 are a separate and distinct group in this narrative. As you noted, according to some interpretations (particularly the literal one), they are a special, literal number of Jewish evangelists who will be alive on Earth during the tribulation. They are not raptured; they remain on Earth to preach the Gospel to those left behind. They are described as being "sealed" by God, which means they are divinely protected from the coming plagues and calamities, allowing them to fulfill their mission. They don't try to "rescue" others in the physical sense, but rather to convert them to faith in Jesus so they can be spiritually saved.
Seventh-day Adventist Belief The Seventh-day Adventist Church (SDA) rejects the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture. They believe that both the righteous and the wicked will experience the final tribulation. In their view, the 144,000 are a literal number of Adventists who will be alive at the time of the end, go through the tribulation, and be the only group to not experience death before being translated to heaven when Jesus returns. So, in their belief system, the 144,000 are the special ones who hang out during the tribulation, but they do so to be witnesses, not to rescue others from the calamity.
oh so the seventh day guys have this 144k and they hang around during the rapture but for them there wasn't some who vanish before, that were sorta good guys?
You've hit on the precise point of distinction that makes the Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) belief about the 144,000 unique.
You are correct: The SDA church does not believe that a group of "good guys" vanishes before the calamity. The term "Rapture" as it's understood in other denominations (where believers are taken to heaven to escape the tribulation) is not part of their theology.
Instead, in the SDA belief system:
Everyone Stays: Both the righteous and the wicked will be on Earth to face the final calamitous events of the end times. There is no pre-tribulation vanishing.
The 144,000 are the Special Group: The 144,000 are a literal, special group of people who are part of the SDA church and will live through the tribulation without dying.
Their Purpose: They are not there to "rescue" others from the calamities. Their role is to be a faithful witness to God's final message during this time of great turmoil. They demonstrate that it's possible to remain faithful in the face of the ultimate trial.
Their End: At the very end of the tribulation, when Jesus returns to Earth, the 144,000 will be "translated," meaning they will be taken to heaven without experiencing death, along with the righteous who have been resurrected from their graves.
So, in short, the belief that some "good guys" vanish is part of the Rapture narrative, which the Seventh-day Adventists reject. For them, the 144,000 are the ones who stay and endure the final trials, not to escape them.
so who is it then that talks about the group of sorta good guys that vanish.. they weren't good enough to make the cut at the 144k though, eh.. Seems like just the normal christian bible talks about that
This is a great question, as it gets to the heart of a major point of disagreement within Christianity.
The belief that a group of "good guys" will vanish before the calamity is known as the Rapture. It's not a belief held by all Christians, but it is a central part of the theology of many Evangelical and Fundamentalist denominations, as well as many non-denominational churches.
The denominations that most commonly teach this are:
Many Baptist churches.
Most Pentecostal and Charismatic denominations.
A large number of non-denominational churches.
Where is this in the Bible? This belief comes from an interpretation of a few specific verses, primarily in the New Testament. The key passage is 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, which in the King James Version says:
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
The phrase "caught up" is the basis for the word "rapture" (from the Latin rapiemur, which means "to be snatched up").
The Vanishing "Good Guys" and the 144,000 In this belief system, the two groups are entirely separate:
The Vanishing Group: This is the "church"—all the believers in Jesus Christ who have lived since the beginning of the Christian era. They are seen as "good guys" because they have accepted Jesus's sacrifice for their sins. They are the ones who "vanish" at the Rapture to escape the seven-year tribulation on Earth.
The 144,000: As we discussed, the 144,000 are a distinct and literal group of Jewish men who will be on Earth during the tribulation. They are divinely protected and have a specific mission to preach the Gospel to those who were left behind. They are not part of the "raptured" group.
So, in this view, the "normal" Christians (the ones who believe in Jesus) vanish, and the special 144,000 are the ones who stick around to do a job. It's a key part of this specific eschatological timeline.
allright.. back to the quaran.. the end times there.. did they have any indication of "signs" that would be going on before the rapture?
That's an excellent question that brings us back to the Quran and Islamic tradition, and it highlights a key difference from the Christian Rapture idea.
The Quran and Islamic tradition do indeed have "signs" that will go on before the end of the world, but they are not the same as the Christian concept of the Rapture. The major distinction is that in Islam, there is no belief that a group of believers will "vanish" to escape the calamity. Everyone will experience it.
As we discussed, the signs are categorized into two groups:
Examples of these minor signs include:
The spread of ignorance and a decline in religious knowledge.
The proliferation of immoral acts like adultery, fornication, and consuming alcohol.
People competing to build taller and taller buildings.
The widespread practice of usury (interest).
Increasing bloodshed and strife.
As we covered, these include things like:
The emergence of the Dajjal (the Antichrist).
The return of Jesus (Isa) to Earth.
The rise of Gog and Magog.
The sun rising from the west.
A major fire that drives people to the final gathering place.
So, in the Islamic perspective, the "rapture" you are asking about doesn't exist. There is no pre-calamity vanishing of believers. Instead, all of humanity will endure the major signs and the subsequent destruction of the world. The only group that receives a kind of special mercy at the very end is the small number of remaining believers, whose souls will be taken by a gentle wind just before the final, most horrifying events that lead to the Day of Judgment. This leaves only the wicked and unrighteous on Earth to face the end.
hold on here.. we'll get into the major stuff.. just looking at the minor signs, eh.. So they don't like the "consuming alcohol". Damn.. how come they don't like that.. is it cause you can get hijacked by evil spirits when you're boozed up?
That's an insightful question that goes right to the heart of the moral and ethical reasoning behind Islamic law. You've correctly identified that consuming alcohol is listed as a "minor sign" of the End Times in Islamic tradition, signifying a decline in morality.
The reason for the prohibition is not directly linked to evil spirits in the way you're suggesting, though some interpretations might see a connection. The primary reasons given in the Quran and by Islamic scholars for forbidding alcohol are more centered on human well-being and a person's relationship with God.
Here's the breakdown of the Islamic view on alcohol:
It Clouds Judgment and Reason This is the most important reason. Islam places a high value on the intellect, clear thinking, and the ability to make rational decisions. The Arabic word for intoxicant, khamr (خمر), comes from a root that means "to obscure" or "to veil." The belief is that alcohol veils the mind, which is a gift from God. When a person's judgment is clouded, they are more susceptible to sin and a variety of other evils.
It Leads to Other Sins In Islamic teachings, alcohol is often referred to as "the mother of all evils." It's seen as a gateway that leads people to commit other sins they wouldn't normally commit. The reasoning is that when one's inhibition and judgment are compromised, they are more likely to engage in things like:
Violence and anger.
Unlawful sexual acts.
Neglecting one's religious duties, like the five daily prayers.
Wasting money.
It Disrupts Your Connection to God Muslims are required to pray five times a day. Being in a state of intoxication makes it impossible to pray with the necessary focus and sincerity. The Quran explicitly warns against approaching prayer while intoxicated. The prohibition is designed to protect a person's ability to maintain a clear and constant connection with God.
It Breeds Enmity The Quran states that Satan's goal is to create "enmity and hatred among you" through alcohol and gambling. This is because alcohol is seen as a source of conflict and social problems within families and communities.
While the prohibition isn't directly tied to "evil spirits" in the sense of possession, the connection you made isn't entirely off the mark from a theological perspective. In Islam, evil is personified by Satan (Shaytan) and his forces. Since alcohol is seen as "the work of Satan" and a path to sin, it is a tool that helps him lead people astray. So, while a Muslim might not say "alcohol allows evil spirits to hijack you," they would say that it is a tool of evil that weakens your will to resist temptation and sin, which is essentially the same idea from a different angle.
well what do christians think of this.. cause Jesus and his buddies would drink wine, right.. I'm guessing these guys in the quaran they weren't doin that, eh
That's a fantastic observation, and it brings up one of the clearest and most significant ethical differences between the two religions.
You are absolutely right. In the Christian Bible, Jesus and his disciples drank wine. The Bible does not prohibit the consumption of alcohol, but it very clearly condemns drunkenness.
The Christian View on Alcohol The Christian perspective is one of moderation, not abstinence.
Jesus's Example: Jesus's first miracle, as told in the Gospel of John, was turning water into wine at the wedding in Cana. This event is seen by Christians as proof that wine is not inherently evil. Additionally, during the Last Supper, Jesus used wine as a symbol of his blood, which is a central part of the Christian communion rite.
The Bible's Teaching: The Bible warns against the abuse of alcohol. Proverbs 20:1 says, "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." Ephesians 5:18 advises, "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit."
A Matter of Conscience: For many Christians, the decision to drink is a matter of personal conviction and conscience. The focus is on avoiding intoxication and the negative consequences that can arise from it. However, some denominations and individual Christians choose to be teetotalers (to abstain from alcohol entirely) as a personal principle or to avoid being a bad influence on others.
The Islamic View on Alcohol In direct contrast, as you guessed, the people in the Quran's narrative, including the Prophet Muhammad, were not drinking alcohol. The prohibition in Islam is complete and total. It is not a matter of moderation; it is a matter of avoiding the substance itself.
The Quran's prohibition of alcohol was revealed in stages, starting with a warning against praying while intoxicated and culminating in a total ban. The final verses on the subject are in Surah Al-Ma'idah (Chapter 5), verses 90-91:
"O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, stone altars [on which sacrifices were made], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful. Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. So will you not desist?"
This makes the core difference very clear:
Christianity: Focuses on the abuse of alcohol (drunkenness).
Islam: Focuses on the substance itself (all intoxicants).
It's a perfect example of how two religions with a shared heritage can take fundamentally different approaches to the same ethical issue.
[continued in part 6]