This is gonna be a pretty long one but you got conspiracy going on in this stuff. Like it's pretty bad. The quran has the Jesus dude in it but when he was going to get crucified, Yahweh switches him out with Judas, that ratted on him and he's the one who gets hanged. They say there was no resurrection.
This is a bit like a channeled book like the 80's Ra material. You get odd stuff though like what's going on in the bible with the rapture at the end. The Allah dude is like Yahweh and I know all about that, eh. So it seems like similar stuff. Let's get into it and continued in lots of comment parts.
Hold on here.. though.. see I originally thought this Mohammed guy was like an Arab Jesus.. lol. No. He's just some dude that tripped out. lol. But what's going on here.. is similar to the Bible.. you get yahweh that wants us to know this stuff, eh. That's back in the good old days when he used to step in with his operation. Now he doesn't give a flying fuck at all. lol.
But yeah.. so this Allah dude is actually Yahweh.. but it's the arab way of talking about it. Same dude. I've been analysing yahweh over the years and he's got issues. lol. Let's get into this stuff here.
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the quran.. what's the story in there. Like the Arab Jesus but he didn't get crucified? What happend to this mohammed guy.
The Quran, which Muslims believe is the final revelation from God, contains its own narrative on these key figures of Islam. The stories of both Jesus and Muhammad are central to the faith, but they differ significantly from what is found in Christian traditions.
Jesus in the Quran In the Quran, Jesus is known as Isa (or Isa ibn Maryam, "Jesus, son of Mary"). He is revered as one of the most important prophets and is considered the Messiah (Al-Masih).
A Miraculous Birth: The Quran affirms that Jesus was born to the Virgin Mary through a miraculous act of God. It describes the angel Gabriel announcing to Mary that she would give birth to a son, even though she was a virgin.
A Prophet and Messenger: Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet sent by God to the Children of Israel to confirm the teachings of the Torah and bring the Gospel (Injil). He is said to have performed many miracles, such as healing the sick and raising the dead, all "by God's permission."
The Rejection of Crucifixion: This is the most significant difference from the Christian narrative. The Quran explicitly states that Jesus was not killed or crucified. Instead, it says, "it was made to appear so to them." The belief is that God raised Jesus directly to himself, and he did not die on the cross. Muslims believe that Jesus will return to Earth before the Day of Judgment to establish justice.
The Prophet Muhammad Muhammad is considered the final prophet in Islam, a messenger who received the Quran from God.
Life and Mission: Muhammad was born in Mecca around 570 CE. He was a merchant who, at the age of 40, began receiving divine revelations through the angel Gabriel. These revelations, which continued throughout his life, form the text of the Quran.
Spread of Islam: After facing persecution in Mecca, Muhammad and his followers migrated to the city of Medina in 622 CE. This event, known as the Hijra, marks the beginning of the Islamic calendar. In Medina, Muhammad established the first Muslim community and grew in influence, eventually returning to Mecca as a conqueror in 630 CE.
His Death: The Prophet Muhammad died in 632 CE in Medina after a brief illness. He is buried there in what is now a part of the Prophet's Mosque, a major pilgrimage site for Muslims. Unlike Jesus in the Quranic narrative, there is no ambiguity about his death. He lived a full life and died a natural death.
so what exactly did this guy do.. doesn't sound like miracles.. but yeah.. jesus is in the quaran?
Your question gets to a key difference between Islam and other monotheistic religions. While Jesus is a central figure in both Christianity and Islam, his role and nature are viewed very differently.
Jesus in the Quran You are correct that Jesus is in the Quran. He is mentioned by name over 25 times and is a highly revered prophet. In Islam, he is known as Isa (or Isa ibn Maryam, "Jesus, son of Mary") and is considered the Messiah. Muslims believe he was born to the Virgin Mary through a miracle of God and was sent to the Children of Israel to bring the Gospel (Injil) and confirm the Torah. The Quran describes him as having performed many miracles, such as healing the sick and raising the dead, but always with the permission of God.
However, the Quran rejects the Christian belief that Jesus is the son of God or part of a Trinity. He is seen as a great prophet, but still a human being and a servant of God.
Muhammad's Role You noted that Muhammad's actions don't sound like "miracles" in the traditional sense, and that's an important distinction. The primary "miracle" of Muhammad in Islam is the Quran itself. Muslims believe that the Quran is the verbatim word of God, revealed to Muhammad, an unlettered man, over a period of 23 years. The text is considered inimitable and a direct sign from God.
Beyond receiving the Quran, Muhammad's role was to establish the religion and the community of Islam. He:
Preached Monotheism: He called for a return to the worship of one God (Allah) and rejected the polytheistic practices common in pre-Islamic Arabia.
Established a Community: After facing persecution in Mecca, he and his followers migrated to Medina, where he became a political and spiritual leader, uniting different tribes and establishing the first Muslim state.
Provided a Moral Example: His life, actions, and sayings (known as the Sunnah and Hadith) are considered a perfect example for Muslims to follow in all aspects of their lives—from prayer and family relations to business and justice.
ok so he was just a dude that got like this download of information and he transcribed it to the quaran
That's a good way to put it, as long as you understand the nuance. From an Islamic perspective, it wasn't just a "download" in a passive sense. It was a profound, and often physically intense, process of divine revelation.
Here's how Muslims understand the process:
The Medium of Revelation: The revelations were not directly from God to Muhammad in a conversational way. They came through the Angel Gabriel (Jibreel in Arabic). Gabriel would bring the exact words of God to Muhammad.
The Experience: The experience of receiving a revelation was described by Muhammad himself as being very difficult. His companions noted that he would sometimes sweat profusely, even on a cold day, and a heavy feeling would come over him. It was a state of intense spiritual concentration and transformation.
Dictation, not Transcription: Since Muhammad, according to Islamic belief, was unlettered and could neither read nor write, he couldn't have just "transcribed" the information. Instead, he would immediately recite the verses to his companions, who would then memorize them and write them down on whatever materials were available at the time, such as leather, stones, or palm leaves.
Gradual Process: The revelations did not come all at once. They were revealed in stages over a period of 23 years, from the time he first began receiving them until his death. The verses often came in response to specific events, questions, or needs of the early Muslim community. This gradual process allowed the teachings to be absorbed and implemented over time.
So, while the end result was a book—the Quran—it's viewed as the direct, verbatim word of God, not something Muhammad composed or merely "transcribed." His role was to receive the message, convey it accurately, and embody its teachings as a living example for humanity.
ok.. damn.. he wasn't even able to read or write but he'd have this Angel Gabriel tell him stuff.. then he'd say what he was experiencing and his buddies were the ones who wrote it down
That's exactly the core of the Islamic belief regarding the revelation of the Quran.
You've captured the key components:
The Messenger: Muhammad, who was unlettered (unable to read or write), and therefore, from a religious perspective, an unlikely candidate to author a book of such literary complexity and scope.
The Medium: The Angel Gabriel acting as the intermediary, delivering the divine message.
The Process: Muhammad would receive the revelation and immediately recite it.
The Scribes: His companions, who were literate, would listen, memorize, and write down the verses, creating the first written copies of the Quran.
This account of the revelation is central to Islamic theology and serves as a powerful argument for the divine origin of the Quran. The fact that the prophet was unlettered is seen as proof that the text could not have been his own work, but must have come from a higher source.
This is kind of interesting though how the Jesus dude was in their book.. but they're saying he was just a prophet and not this son of god or something, eh?
Yes, that is a very astute observation and it gets to the heart of the theological differences between Islam and Christianity.
The way Jesus is portrayed in the Quran is one of the most interesting and significant aspects of Islamic belief. He is not a minor figure; he is central to the line of prophets. Muslims hold him in great reverence, but their understanding of him is fundamentally different from that of Christians.
Prophet, not Deity: In the Quran, Jesus is consistently referred to as a messenger and prophet of God, in the same line as Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Muhammad. He is given special titles like "the Messiah" and "a word from God," and his miraculous birth is affirmed. However, these titles are interpreted in a way that does not elevate him to a divine status or make him the literal son of God.
The Concept of "Shirk": The Islamic belief system is built on the absolute oneness of God (known as Tawhid). The idea of God having a son or being part of a trinity is seen as a form of shirk, which means "associating partners with God." In Islam, this is considered the most serious and unforgivable sin. The Quran explicitly states that Jesus was a servant of God and that he himself never claimed to be divine.
The Role of Other Prophets: For Muslims, all the major prophets, including Jesus, brought the same core message: to worship the one true God alone. The Quran argues that over time, the messages of earlier prophets were distorted or corrupted by people. Thus, Muhammad was sent as the final prophet to restore and perfect the original, pure message of Islam.
So, while Christians see the crucifixion and resurrection as the central events of Jesus's mission—the means by which humanity's sins are forgiven—Muslims see his life as a powerful example of a prophet, and the Quranic denial of his crucifixion serves to preserve the principle of God's absolute power and Jesus's status as a human prophet. It's a fascinating example of how two major world religions share a key historical figure but interpret his life and purpose in profoundly different ways.
I don't think most people who are christian even know the jesus dude is in this arab bible..
You've touched upon a really important point. It's true that for many Christians, especially those who aren't deeply involved in interfaith studies or dialogue, the idea of Jesus being a significant figure in the Quran comes as a surprise. The religious narratives are so different that there's a general lack of awareness about this shared figure.
Here's why that might be the case and how the two perspectives can be seen in light of one another:
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The Centrality of the Narratives: For Christians, the core of the faith revolves around the divinity of Jesus, his crucifixion, and his resurrection. These events are seen as the means of salvation. Since the Quran denies the crucifixion and resurrection, it fundamentally changes the narrative in a way that is difficult for many Christians to reconcile with their own beliefs. This denial of a central tenet can lead to a sense that the Quranic account is "wrong" or irrelevant, without necessarily knowing the details of what it actually says.
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Focus on Divergence, Not Convergence: In much of the public conversation about Christianity and Islam, the focus is on their differences—the nature of God (Trinity vs. absolute oneness), the role of Jesus (divine Son vs. Prophet), and the final authority (Bible vs. Quran). The points of convergence, like the virgin birth and Jesus's role as a miracle-working messiah, are often overlooked in favor of the more contentious theological divides.
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Historical and Cultural Distance: For centuries, Christianity and Islam have developed in different cultural and theological contexts, often with limited exposure to each other's sacred texts. The popular understanding of each religion is often shaped more by media, politics, and historical conflicts than by an accurate knowledge of their foundational texts.
Despite these differences, there is a growing field of interfaith dialogue where scholars, theologians, and regular people from both faiths are exploring these shared stories. They find that the Quran's portrayal of Jesus can serve as a bridge, a point of common ground that allows for mutual understanding and respect, even if the core beliefs about his ultimate nature remain distinct.
[Continued in comments]
[part 1]
ok well you must have some data here cause it was the angel gabriel who was saying stuff, right?
That's correct, you're picking up on the consistency of the narrative. In both the Islamic and Christian traditions, the Angel Gabriel is a key figure who acts as a messenger of God.
In the Quran:
The Revelation to Muhammad: As we've discussed, the Quran states that the Angel Gabriel (Jibril in Arabic) was the one who delivered the entire text of the Quran to the Prophet Muhammad over a 23-year period. He is considered the "Spirit of Truth" and the primary intermediary between God and His prophets.
The Annunciation to Mary: The Quran also describes Gabriel's role in the miraculous birth of Jesus. In Surah Maryam (Chapter 19), Gabriel appears to Mary and says, "I am only a messenger of your Lord to give you [the gift of] a pure boy." This account is very similar to the one found in the Bible.
In the Bible (Christianity):
The Annunciation to Mary: The Gospel of Luke recounts how the Angel Gabriel appeared to the Virgin Mary to announce that she would conceive and bear a son, Jesus, who would be the Son of God.
The Annunciation to Zechariah: Gabriel also appears to Zechariah to announce that his wife, Elizabeth, will give birth to John the Baptist.
So, while the two faiths have vastly different views on the nature of Jesus and the finality of the revelation, the role of the Angel Gabriel as the primary messenger of God is a striking point of agreement. He is the divine courier who delivered messages of immense importance to both Mary and Muhammad.
so what's going on here.. what went on then for real.. where'd this come from the him getting crucified.. that's not too bad but the resurrecting stuff.. that's like "magic".. you know what I mean.
That's an excellent and very direct question that gets at the heart of the historical and theological debate. You're right to point out that the idea of resurrection from the dead is an extraordinary claim that feels like "magic" outside of a religious framework.
To answer your question, we need to look at the historical context from a secular academic and scholarly perspective, as well as the theological one.
The Historical Consensus on Crucifixion First, let's address the crucifixion. The vast majority of historians, regardless of their personal beliefs, agree that a historical figure named Jesus of Nazareth was crucified by the Romans under the prefect Pontius Pilate. This is considered one of the most well-attested facts about his life. Here's why:
Multiple Sources: The crucifixion is mentioned in all four canonical Gospels and the epistles of Paul (written within a few decades of the event). It's also mentioned by non-Christian historians of the time, such as the Roman Tacitus and the Jewish historian Josephus.
The "Criterion of Embarrassment": From a scholarly standpoint, the crucifixion is considered an "embarrassing" fact for early Christians. A crucified Messiah was a scandalous and humiliating idea in the Roman world. It would have been the last thing early followers would have invented. The fact that they proclaimed a crucified leader, and that their opponents mocked them for it, is strong evidence that the event actually happened.
The Resurrection: A Different Kind of Historical Question The resurrection is where the historical inquiry shifts from a simple event to a question of interpretation and belief. The resurrection is not verifiable in the same way the crucifixion is. You can't point to a body or an empty tomb and say, "That's historical proof."
Instead, the historical evidence for the resurrection is based on a set of "minimal facts" that most scholars—both Christian and non-Christian—agree on:
The disciples' belief: A short time after Jesus' death, his followers came to believe that he had appeared to them, alive and resurrected from the dead. This belief was not a gradual development; it was a sudden and radical transformation. They went from being scattered and terrified to boldly proclaiming a risen Christ, even in the face of persecution and death.
The empty tomb: The tomb where Jesus was buried was found empty a few days later. While some scholars debate the details, the fact that the earliest Jewish authorities accused the disciples of stealing the body implies there was indeed a body that was no longer there.
The appearances: The New Testament, particularly the writings of Paul (the earliest of which were written within 25 years of Jesus' death), lists multiple eyewitnesses who claimed to have seen the resurrected Jesus. These include the disciples, a group of 500 people, and even Paul himself.
The Contradicting Narratives So, what's going on with the "magic" of resurrection?
Christian View: From a Christian perspective, the resurrection is not magic; it's a divine miracle that is fundamental to their faith. It's the ultimate proof that Jesus was who he claimed to be: the Son of God who had power over death. It's not just a historical event but a salvific one that provides hope for eternal life. The fact that it seems impossible from a purely natural standpoint is exactly the point—it demonstrates God's supernatural power.
Non-Christian Scholarly Views: For historians and scholars who do not believe in the resurrection as a literal, physical event, the "minimal facts" must be explained by other theories. These theories include:
The Swoon Theory: Jesus didn't actually die on the cross but simply fainted and was later revived. (This is generally rejected by historians due to the nature of Roman crucifixion.)
The Conspiracy Theory: The disciples stole the body and made up the story of the resurrection. (This is also generally rejected because it doesn't explain why the disciples were willing to die for a known lie.)
The Hallucination Theory: The disciples experienced powerful grief-induced visions or hallucinations of a risen Jesus. This is a common explanation among skeptical scholars, as it accounts for the disciples' belief and the empty tomb without requiring a supernatural event.
In the end, what "really happened" from a historical perspective depends on how you interpret the evidence. The crucifixion is an undisputed historical event. The resurrection is an event that is historically attested by a transformed movement and claims of eyewitnesses, but its nature—divine miracle or psychological phenomenon—remains a question of faith.
does the quaran say jesus was crucified.. I think you said earlier, no
You are absolutely correct. My apologies for any confusion.
The Quran is very clear on this point: it explicitly states that Jesus was not crucified. The verse I mentioned before, Surah An-Nisa (4:157), says:
"And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them."
This is a core difference between the Islamic and Christian narratives. The Islamic belief is that God saved Jesus from the cross, and a different person was crucified in his place, making it appear as though Jesus had died. This is why Muslims believe Jesus did not die on the cross and was instead raised directly to God while he was still alive.
and just before this, weren't you saying there was testimony from other sources that said yeah jesus was crucified
You are right to point out that seeming contradiction. I apologize if my previous answer was not clear enough.
My previous answer was intended to explain two separate perspectives, and I can see how they might have been confusing when placed so close together.
To clarify:
The Quran's Stance: The Quran, as I said, explicitly denies that Jesus was crucified. It states that someone else was made to look like him and was crucified in his place, and that Jesus was raised bodily to God. This is the official and majority belief within Islam.
The Historians' Stance: When I mentioned that "the vast majority of historians... agree that a historical figure named Jesus of Nazareth was crucified by the Romans," I was speaking from a secular, academic perspective on what the available historical sources suggest. These sources include Christian texts (the Gospels, Paul's letters) and non-Christian sources from the same time period (like the Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius, and the Jewish historian Josephus). These historians see the crucifixion as a verifiable historical event.
These two statements are not a contradiction on my part, but rather a reflection of the fundamental difference between a religious text and a historical analysis.
A religious text like the Quran presents a theological truth for its believers. It is an account of God's will and actions, not a historical document in the modern sense. It explicitly corrects what it sees as a misinterpretation of events.
A historical analysis uses external evidence, such as independent accounts and a criterion of embarrassment (the idea that an embarrassing fact is more likely to be true), to piece together what likely happened in the past. From this perspective, the evidence for a public crucifixion of a figure named Jesus is overwhelming.
So, to be precise:
According to the Quran: No, Jesus was not crucified.
According to most historians and non-Islamic historical sources: Yes, Jesus was crucified.
The two views are in direct conflict, and which one you accept depends entirely on your framework of belief and knowledge.
wait, what.. you saying the quaran says there was an impostor who was crucified and it wasn't jesus?
That's a very common and widely accepted interpretation within Islamic theology, yes.
The verse I mentioned earlier, from Surah An-Nisa (Chapter 4), verse 157, is the basis for this belief:
"And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them."
The phrase "was made to resemble him" is key. While the Quran does not name the person who was crucified in Jesus's place, the traditional Islamic view, held by the majority of scholars throughout history, is that God created a likeness of Jesus on another person, and this person was crucified while Jesus himself was saved and raised to heaven.
This is often referred to as the "substitution theory." The idea is that God would not allow one of his greatest prophets to be killed in such a humiliating and painful way. Instead, he rescued Jesus and confused his enemies by making them think they had killed him, when in fact they had killed an imposter.
So, in short, yes, the Quran is interpreted by the vast majority of Muslims to mean that someone else, not Jesus, was crucified on the cross.
so who the hell did that.. this is really odd, right? So then where did the real Jesus dude go after that? Like in hiding? For the rest of his years, I guess, obviously
This is where the story diverges even further and becomes a matter of core Islamic belief.
From the Islamic perspective:
Where did the real Jesus go? The Quran says that after God saved Jesus from the cross, "God raised him up unto Himself." Muslims believe this means that Jesus did not go into hiding on Earth. Instead, he was taken physically and spiritually to heaven, where he remains to this day. He did not die a natural death at that time.
Is he still there? Yes. Muslims believe that Jesus is still alive in heaven. He will not be in hiding for the rest of his years on Earth, because he is not on Earth.
What's his future role? This is a very important part of the Islamic narrative. Muslims believe that Jesus will return to Earth before the Day of Judgment. His return is one of the major signs of the End Times. According to Islamic tradition (Hadith), when he returns, he will:
Descend to Earth near a white minaret in Damascus.
Establish peace and justice throughout the world.
Rule justly, break the cross (symbolizing the end of the Christian belief in his divinity), kill the swine, and fight the Antichrist (al-Masih ad-Dajjal).
Eventually die a natural death and be buried alongside the Prophet Muhammad in Medina.
So, in the Islamic view, Jesus's story is not complete. The event on the cross was a part of his mission, but not the final part. He is destined to return and complete his mission before the final judgment.
[continued in part 2]