Hi! Just reposting the comment with some emphasis on where I'm hoping you can respond, if you weren't sure on where this goes:
Our previous discussion cannot continue because you lack basic understanding of forces that exist in the universe.
I asked you nicely to start by thinking mechanically.
Yes, and I gave you mechanical answers as well. I think it's not really serving to limit ourselves, since we're talking about the nature of force in general.
So no push is used to drive the winch?
In some cases, yes that is correct!
All is push.
So how would you consider me pulling a cup towards me as push?
If you can show me any documentation on classical physics that describes pushing being the only force that exists, I'll concede. I've already sent a number of links that say otherwise:
Added: It's important to the main discussion at hand, that in order for us to continue we must understand that more forces exist in the world that are not defined by pushing. Is there a specific aspect of this concept that you disagree with?
Our previous discussion cannot continue because you lack basic understanding of forces that exist in the universe.
You misunderstand (because you assume). I have that basic understanding that you do (as most all who are educated are required to), and now disagree with it after further study.
I think it's not really serving to limit ourselves
In a conversation, to be productive, it is vital. There are too many tangents. I don't disagree that the conversation is free to go in any direction, i simply feel it is important to finish what is already in our mouths before taking another bite.
In some cases, yes that is correct!
Not in classical physics - because there is no mechanism for such a thing. As i am struggling to convey to you - everything is a billiard ball (including forces). Billiard balls can't pull, they can only push.
So how would you consider me pulling a cup towards me as push?
Correct, you apply a force from behind the cup towards you. You push the cup towards you. You may want to re-read my previous answer to this question given in previous comments. It may seem like an arbitrary convention, but without a mechanism for pull (traditional deterministic physics, aka "billiard ball", has no such mechanism) all is push.
If you can show me any documentation on classical physics that describes pushing being the only force that exists, I'll concede
I don't seek your concession, only understanding. There are many physicists who documented this in the past, but i am simply sharing my views so that you may understand them - not to force (or manipulate/convince) you to agree with them!
that in order for us to continue we must understand that more forces exist in the world that are not defined by pushing.
I understand your views. As long as you understand mine as well, we shouldn't have too much trouble discussing further without having identical views (in fact, how boring would that be?!?!).
Hi! Just reposting the comment with some emphasis on where I'm hoping you can respond, if you weren't sure on where this goes:
Our previous discussion cannot continue because you lack basic understanding of forces that exist in the universe.
Yes, and I gave you mechanical answers as well. I think it's not really serving to limit ourselves, since we're talking about the nature of force in general.
In some cases, yes that is correct!
So how would you consider me pulling a cup towards me as push?
If you can show me any documentation on classical physics that describes pushing being the only force that exists, I'll concede. I've already sent a number of links that say otherwise:
https://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/newtlaws/Lesson-2/Types-of-Forces
https://www.britannica.com/science/force-physics
https://byjus.com/physics/force/#types-of-force
Added: It's important to the main discussion at hand, that in order for us to continue we must understand that more forces exist in the world that are not defined by pushing. Is there a specific aspect of this concept that you disagree with?
You misunderstand (because you assume). I have that basic understanding that you do (as most all who are educated are required to), and now disagree with it after further study.
In a conversation, to be productive, it is vital. There are too many tangents. I don't disagree that the conversation is free to go in any direction, i simply feel it is important to finish what is already in our mouths before taking another bite.
Not in classical physics - because there is no mechanism for such a thing. As i am struggling to convey to you - everything is a billiard ball (including forces). Billiard balls can't pull, they can only push.
Correct, you apply a force from behind the cup towards you. You push the cup towards you. You may want to re-read my previous answer to this question given in previous comments. It may seem like an arbitrary convention, but without a mechanism for pull (traditional deterministic physics, aka "billiard ball", has no such mechanism) all is push.
I don't seek your concession, only understanding. There are many physicists who documented this in the past, but i am simply sharing my views so that you may understand them - not to force (or manipulate/convince) you to agree with them!
I understand your views. As long as you understand mine as well, we shouldn't have too much trouble discussing further without having identical views (in fact, how boring would that be?!?!).