The topic at hand requires both parties to have a proper understanding of basic physics, including the fact that there are more forces that exist than just pushing. You don't have that, so how can we proceed on the topic at hand?
Can an object be pulled by another object if the leading object itself is not pushed?
Yes. Magnetic force is a great example of this.
(think mechanically for now)
If you want to talk strictly mechanics, as in mechanisms, then a scenario such as a winch pulling in a load would be the load being pulled via a rotational method, no pushing of the leading object.
A very simple version through mechanics (of movement) though can just be you picking up your cup of coffee and bringing it to your lips. You're pulling it inward.
Is there a reason why you skipped my question about understanding the conversation up to now and no longer having any questions about weight being an intrinsic and inexorable property of all matter? I'd like to finish our previous discussion (if possible), before moving on to new ones.
The topic at hand requires both parties to have a proper understanding of basic physics
Well i know i do! i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt ;)
Don't assume that because my views differ from yours that i don't know/understand what yours are (and why)! We were all taught largely the same things through "education", after all.
We are talking about basic physics and are largely speaking (abstractly) about archemides' principle.
Yes. Magnetic force is a great example of this.
I asked you nicely to start by thinking mechanically. But you couldn't help yourself, could you?
then a scenario such as a winch pulling in a load would be the load being pulled via a rotational method, no pushing of the leading object.
So no push is used to drive the winch? And push in a circle is no longer push?
You're pulling it inward
It appears that way, and - like many things in physics - as long as you are consistent there is nothing that prevents you from describing things this way - mathematically or otherwise. In that way, it is a bit like a convention - although in this case the convention has support beyond the purely arbitrary.
Some like to describe the earth as constantly accelerating upwards rather than objects accelerating downwards - for instance. Or the earth being the center of the universe. As long as you are consistent, your equations all still work.
In my view (and that of classical physics) there is only push, and pull is an illusion. A good example is in sucking with a straw. Intuitively we experience "pulling" the liquid to our mouths, but in reality we are watching the pressure of the air push the liquid up the straw. This can be confirmed by utilizing a low pressure (aka vacuum) chamber. All is push.
As i said, this is all tangential (at best) to our original discussion.
Our previous discussion cannot continue because you lack basic understanding of forces that exist in the universe.
I asked you nicely to start by thinking mechanically.
Yes, and I gave you mechanical answers as well. I think it's not really serving to limit ourselves, since we're talking about the nature of force in general.
So no push is used to drive the winch?
In some cases, yes that is correct!
All is push.
So how would you consider me pulling a cup towards me as push?
If you can show me any documentation on classical physics that describes pushing being the only force that exists, I'll concede. I've already sent a number of links that say otherwise:
The topic at hand requires both parties to have a proper understanding of basic physics, including the fact that there are more forces that exist than just pushing. You don't have that, so how can we proceed on the topic at hand?
Yes. Magnetic force is a great example of this.
If you want to talk strictly mechanics, as in mechanisms, then a scenario such as a winch pulling in a load would be the load being pulled via a rotational method, no pushing of the leading object.
A very simple version through mechanics (of movement) though can just be you picking up your cup of coffee and bringing it to your lips. You're pulling it inward.
Is there a reason why you skipped my question about understanding the conversation up to now and no longer having any questions about weight being an intrinsic and inexorable property of all matter? I'd like to finish our previous discussion (if possible), before moving on to new ones.
Well i know i do! i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt ;)
Don't assume that because my views differ from yours that i don't know/understand what yours are (and why)! We were all taught largely the same things through "education", after all.
We are talking about basic physics and are largely speaking (abstractly) about archemides' principle.
I asked you nicely to start by thinking mechanically. But you couldn't help yourself, could you?
So no push is used to drive the winch? And push in a circle is no longer push?
It appears that way, and - like many things in physics - as long as you are consistent there is nothing that prevents you from describing things this way - mathematically or otherwise. In that way, it is a bit like a convention - although in this case the convention has support beyond the purely arbitrary.
Some like to describe the earth as constantly accelerating upwards rather than objects accelerating downwards - for instance. Or the earth being the center of the universe. As long as you are consistent, your equations all still work.
In my view (and that of classical physics) there is only push, and pull is an illusion. A good example is in sucking with a straw. Intuitively we experience "pulling" the liquid to our mouths, but in reality we are watching the pressure of the air push the liquid up the straw. This can be confirmed by utilizing a low pressure (aka vacuum) chamber. All is push.
As i said, this is all tangential (at best) to our original discussion.
Our previous discussion cannot continue because you lack basic understanding of forces that exist in the universe.
Yes, and I gave you mechanical answers as well. I think it's not really serving to limit ourselves, since we're talking about the nature of force in general.
In some cases, yes that is correct!
So how would you consider me pulling a cup towards me as push?
If you can show me any documentation on classical physics that describes pushing being the only force that exists, I'll concede. I've already sent a number of links that say otherwise:
https://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/newtlaws/Lesson-2/Types-of-Forces
https://www.britannica.com/science/force-physics
https://byjus.com/physics/force/#types-of-force