Your editorialized headline: Not possible in math. Read and understand Gödel's incompleteness theorem. Many have tried , most gone insane, incl . Kurt Gödel. Gödel proved it is not possible to do.
The study you linked proves no such thing, but is an interesting example of universal scaling laws.
Godel only said that a limited set of rules can't define infinite truth (it's analagous to counting to infinity, no matter how high you count, you're no closer than when you began). Godel didn't say that truth can't be discerned. Suppose God is infinite and exists, that doesn't mean we can't see evidence of God through math, the sciences, philosophy, or creation.
You do realize, that you basically stated what I stated, but in other words? Gödel's incompleteness theorem proves that no universal truth can be proven (with no assumptions). Only local truths (with assumptions).
Hence, no math proof of "God has been proven using math".
Really, go study the Gödel's theorem yourself (I have), and you will grok it.
You do realize, that you basically stated what I stated, but in other words?
I dont think so, at least with how you worded it. You said it's impossible to prove God. I said that it's possible to show God's existence through our limited understanding (which is what OP said, and you disagreed with). To repeat, Godel never said it's impossible to figure out truth, only that it's impossible for us to learn infinite truth (completeness of a system) using a limited set of rules.
Gödel's incompleteness theorem proves that no universal truth can be proven (with no assumptions). Only local truths (with assumptions).
Not really. For clarity, I'll post what Godel's incompleteness theorems say. Link:
Godel's first incompleteness theorem (as improved by Rosser (1936)) says that for any consistent formalized system F, which contains elementary arithmetic, there exists a sentence GF of the language of the system which is true but unprovable in that system.
Godel's second incompleteness theorem states that no consistent formal system can prove its own consistency.
The only thing Godel's theorems say, is that it's impossible for humans to create a limited/finite set of rules, to define all of reality/infinity. His theorems never say it's impossible to define truth, or figure it out (even as you worded it).
Hence, no math proof of "God has been proven using math".
Just because we can't count to infinity doesn't mean we don't know infinity (the idea) exists. Higher forms of math are impossible without the idea of infinity. In fact, Godel's theorems actually prove the existence of infinity, and the infinite aspect of reality. It shows that no matter how many rules we apply to a system/reality/creation, we're no closer to properly defining it than when we started, because there will always be some function/equation/truth outside of that rule set, which that rule set can't prove, requiring another rule, and another, and another, etc., which is exactly what counting to infinity is like.
We are covering old ground, covered already a hundred years ago by logicians.
Incompleteness theorem (1st) shows that there is no finite set of axioms that can be used to prove/disprove all true logical statements.
Hence, no way to prove ALL that is all and everything with finite set of axioms.
Now, we get to multiples of infinity. And again, we are in agreement: no (so far discovered) math system (even with multiple concepts of counting infinities) can prove god. There is no proof for "all that is" (even with mathematical concept of infinities of multiples of infinities) without unproven axioms that lead to inconsistencies.
I liked the paper linked, but claiming that it is a mathematical proof of god is just ludicrous.
Your editorialized headline: Not possible in math. Read and understand Gödel's incompleteness theorem. Many have tried , most gone insane, incl . Kurt Gödel. Gödel proved it is not possible to do.
The study you linked proves no such thing, but is an interesting example of universal scaling laws.
Godel only said that a limited set of rules can't define infinite truth (it's analagous to counting to infinity, no matter how high you count, you're no closer than when you began). Godel didn't say that truth can't be discerned. Suppose God is infinite and exists, that doesn't mean we can't see evidence of God through math, the sciences, philosophy, or creation.
You do realize, that you basically stated what I stated, but in other words? Gödel's incompleteness theorem proves that no universal truth can be proven (with no assumptions). Only local truths (with assumptions).
Hence, no math proof of "God has been proven using math".
Really, go study the Gödel's theorem yourself (I have), and you will grok it.
Apologies for the late reply. Had family in town.
I dont think so, at least with how you worded it. You said it's impossible to prove God. I said that it's possible to show God's existence through our limited understanding (which is what OP said, and you disagreed with). To repeat, Godel never said it's impossible to figure out truth, only that it's impossible for us to learn infinite truth (completeness of a system) using a limited set of rules.
Not really. For clarity, I'll post what Godel's incompleteness theorems say. Link:
https://www.cairn.info/revue-internationale-de-philosophie-2005-4-page-513.htm
The only thing Godel's theorems say, is that it's impossible for humans to create a limited/finite set of rules, to define all of reality/infinity. His theorems never say it's impossible to define truth, or figure it out (even as you worded it).
Just because we can't count to infinity doesn't mean we don't know infinity (the idea) exists. Higher forms of math are impossible without the idea of infinity. In fact, Godel's theorems actually prove the existence of infinity, and the infinite aspect of reality. It shows that no matter how many rules we apply to a system/reality/creation, we're no closer to properly defining it than when we started, because there will always be some function/equation/truth outside of that rule set, which that rule set can't prove, requiring another rule, and another, and another, etc., which is exactly what counting to infinity is like.
I have.
Thank you for your reply.
We are covering old ground, covered already a hundred years ago by logicians.
Incompleteness theorem (1st) shows that there is no finite set of axioms that can be used to prove/disprove all true logical statements.
Hence, no way to prove ALL that is all and everything with finite set of axioms.
Now, we get to multiples of infinity. And again, we are in agreement: no (so far discovered) math system (even with multiple concepts of counting infinities) can prove god. There is no proof for "all that is" (even with mathematical concept of infinities of multiples of infinities) without unproven axioms that lead to inconsistencies.
I liked the paper linked, but claiming that it is a mathematical proof of god is just ludicrous.