It's why after considering EO for a few years and spending a lot of time enjoying the Eastern church fathers (and the beautiful art/aesthetics), and now agreeing with their metaphysics over the Western views.
Some of the traditions that started developing are a bit weird and unbiblical IMO.
Too much emphasis is put on iconography (some would say to the level of fetishism), thinking spiritual beings are aware of you through images you are kissing. Asking Saints and Mary to pray for you rather than praying directly to God (Catholics are weird about this as well, something we simply don't see in the Apostles or Apostolic Fathers, nor instructions to do this in the deuterocanonical books even if some claim there are allusions in a verse in Tobit, we simply see no commands to or examples by the Gospels or Acts, the Pauline Epistles, or the Apostolic Fathers like Polycarp, Clement, and Ignatius).
Colossians 2:13-14 also, it's like they haven't really developed their Pauline theology. They get Christus Victor but not the other important aspects of the atonement.
They sometimes get furious when you mention any of that, and I don't want to cause division but it's enough of a problem I have to warn when the topic comes up because I worry they don't understand the basics of the gospel according to the Bible, and fell into the same trap as the Pharisee's did, holding up oral traditions higher than what God had written down in stone for us.
I'm not protesting anything I'm simply labeled "protestant" because I love the Bible.
Still enjoy listening to many EO and Catholic philosophers and theologians though, I am not saying they aren't true believers.
I just want everyone to know they can have a direct relationship with Jesus and speak to Him one on One, you don't need a middleman.
“You can never learn that Christ is all you need, until Christ is all you have.”
– Corrie ten Boom
“I’ve experienced His presence in the deepest darkest hell that men can create. I have tested the promises of the Bible, and believe me, you can count on them. I know that Jesus Christ can live in you, in me, through His Holy Spirit. You can talk with Him; you can talk with Him out loud or in your heart when you are alone, as I was alone in solitary confinement. The joy is that He hears each word.”
In Orthodox Christianity it is believed that bodies of real saints does not decay and themselves are a powerful source of grace and kind of link to the God. Undecayable bodies of different saints could have different powers. Under normal circumstances, parisioners touch or kiss saint''s body asking God to help. IDK, just like on funerals, people touch or kiss deceased to say goodbye, send message to other side or whatever, but in this case, deceased body does not decay or rot for millenia, so any parisioner could participate in kind of eternal funeral of that saint and try to ask saint for help, get some God's grace or send God a message.
However, many crypts with undecayed bodies was destroyed during wars, thefts and so on. Jewish Bolsheviks in Russia had a special program with state financing and even special jewish squadron to destroy all orthodox saint bodies from hijacked monasteries and churches. Nearly all crypts and graves was searched and if a body inside was undecayed, it was seized and then destroyed one way or another, usually they burnt them. Interesting that it was done regardless of the saintness status of dead person. Jews took enormous effort to get rid of all that undecayable artifacts they could find. Even if you think that that undecayable bodies of saints are bullshit or curiosity, then think again. Jews think they are very important and should be destroyed. This whole reddit thread is a proof that they still think so and still trying to a least mock that phenomena.
So, sometimes from that undecayed bodies of saints, only finger ot foot left. It is believed that even such small part have properties of whole body.
In that video, priest, presumably, mass-producing holy water using a foot of some saint, who, may be was known also as a great holy water maker or had especially close relations with God. Looks weird, I know,, but if you are aware of background it is pretty logical. :)
Never heard of this. You'd think some scientist would have done tests to find out what's going on. I'm assuming bodies would decompose and not be like that. What about Egyptian mummies though, those seem in not bad shape. So what the hell is going on with this scenario.. like surely, some scientists have tried to explain what's going on.. where's that?
Never heard of this. You'd think some scientist would have done tests to find out what's going on.
There was some reasearch done in USSR, but it didn't give any conclusion. Just f.e. a statement that body is a body of a male that died 500 years ago from whatever reason and it didn't decompose in 500 years. No special substances found that could be part of mummification process. Just human remnants, that not decomposed in 500 years.
IDK, scientifically speaking, may be creating new cause-effect chains (what make us God-like) i.e. doing right, good things make your body resistant to decay and parasites (both physical and spiritual), as in life, so after.
What about Egyptian mummies though, those seem in not bad shape
Bodies of mummies was specifically processed to make them stable. And that was not a simple process. But in the case of saints, nobody process them. They was buried as a usual people, and later (it could be centuries later) it was revealed that body is intact. And it could be both ways - undecaying body found in crypt and then after studying life of this person he declared saint, or after declaring saint somebody check body and found it undecayed.
some scientists have tried to explain what's going on.. where's that?
Looks like modern science working on how to prevent that phenomena and not on finding what is going on with it.
Of course it is an interesting phenomena, and it should be studied by scientists, because comprehension of God's idea is one of the main purposes of science.
There are also other physical phenomenas known to Orthodox Christianity. F.e. icons or crosses myrrhing or descending of blessed fire, cloak of Blessed Virgin and so on.
A possible scientific explanation is that the bodies are in a quantum system state similar to a Bose-Einstein condensate but not the same. Could a god do that to them? We can't say for sure.
It's why after considering EO for a few years and spending a lot of time enjoying the Eastern church fathers (and the beautiful art/aesthetics), and now agreeing with their metaphysics over the Western views.
Some of the traditions that started developing are a bit weird and unbiblical IMO.
Too much emphasis is put on iconography (some would say to the level of fetishism), thinking spiritual beings are aware of you through images you are kissing. Asking Saints and Mary to pray for you rather than praying directly to God (Catholics are weird about this as well, something we simply don't see in the Apostles or Apostolic Fathers, nor instructions to do this in the deuterocanonical books even if some claim there are allusions in a verse in Tobit, we simply see no commands to or examples by the Gospels or Acts, the Pauline Epistles, or the Apostolic Fathers like Polycarp, Clement, and Ignatius).
Lack of an understanding of the Atonement, no concept of God being angry towards humans for sin.
Colossians 2:13-14 also, it's like they haven't really developed their Pauline theology. They get Christus Victor but not the other important aspects of the atonement.
They sometimes get furious when you mention any of that, and I don't want to cause division but it's enough of a problem I have to warn when the topic comes up because I worry they don't understand the basics of the gospel according to the Bible, and fell into the same trap as the Pharisee's did, holding up oral traditions higher than what God had written down in stone for us.
I'm not protesting anything I'm simply labeled "protestant" because I love the Bible.
Still enjoy listening to many EO and Catholic philosophers and theologians though, I am not saying they aren't true believers.
I just want everyone to know they can have a direct relationship with Jesus and speak to Him one on One, you don't need a middleman.
“You can never learn that Christ is all you need, until Christ is all you have.”
– Corrie ten Boom
“I’ve experienced His presence in the deepest darkest hell that men can create. I have tested the promises of the Bible, and believe me, you can count on them. I know that Jesus Christ can live in you, in me, through His Holy Spirit. You can talk with Him; you can talk with Him out loud or in your heart when you are alone, as I was alone in solitary confinement. The joy is that He hears each word.”
– Corrie ten Boom
Seventh Day Adventism is the Christianity you want.
Undecayable relic of a saint`s body.
In Orthodox Christianity it is believed that bodies of real saints does not decay and themselves are a powerful source of grace and kind of link to the God. Undecayable bodies of different saints could have different powers. Under normal circumstances, parisioners touch or kiss saint''s body asking God to help. IDK, just like on funerals, people touch or kiss deceased to say goodbye, send message to other side or whatever, but in this case, deceased body does not decay or rot for millenia, so any parisioner could participate in kind of eternal funeral of that saint and try to ask saint for help, get some God's grace or send God a message.
However, many crypts with undecayed bodies was destroyed during wars, thefts and so on. Jewish Bolsheviks in Russia had a special program with state financing and even special jewish squadron to destroy all orthodox saint bodies from hijacked monasteries and churches. Nearly all crypts and graves was searched and if a body inside was undecayed, it was seized and then destroyed one way or another, usually they burnt them. Interesting that it was done regardless of the saintness status of dead person. Jews took enormous effort to get rid of all that undecayable artifacts they could find. Even if you think that that undecayable bodies of saints are bullshit or curiosity, then think again. Jews think they are very important and should be destroyed. This whole reddit thread is a proof that they still think so and still trying to a least mock that phenomena.
So, sometimes from that undecayed bodies of saints, only finger ot foot left. It is believed that even such small part have properties of whole body.
In that video, priest, presumably, mass-producing holy water using a foot of some saint, who, may be was known also as a great holy water maker or had especially close relations with God. Looks weird, I know,, but if you are aware of background it is pretty logical. :)
Never heard of this. You'd think some scientist would have done tests to find out what's going on. I'm assuming bodies would decompose and not be like that. What about Egyptian mummies though, those seem in not bad shape. So what the hell is going on with this scenario.. like surely, some scientists have tried to explain what's going on.. where's that?
There was some reasearch done in USSR, but it didn't give any conclusion. Just f.e. a statement that body is a body of a male that died 500 years ago from whatever reason and it didn't decompose in 500 years. No special substances found that could be part of mummification process. Just human remnants, that not decomposed in 500 years.
IDK, scientifically speaking, may be creating new cause-effect chains (what make us God-like) i.e. doing right, good things make your body resistant to decay and parasites (both physical and spiritual), as in life, so after.
Bodies of mummies was specifically processed to make them stable. And that was not a simple process. But in the case of saints, nobody process them. They was buried as a usual people, and later (it could be centuries later) it was revealed that body is intact. And it could be both ways - undecaying body found in crypt and then after studying life of this person he declared saint, or after declaring saint somebody check body and found it undecayed.
Looks like modern science working on how to prevent that phenomena and not on finding what is going on with it.
Of course it is an interesting phenomena, and it should be studied by scientists, because comprehension of God's idea is one of the main purposes of science.
There are also other physical phenomenas known to Orthodox Christianity. F.e. icons or crosses myrrhing or descending of blessed fire, cloak of Blessed Virgin and so on.
A possible scientific explanation is that the bodies are in a quantum system state similar to a Bose-Einstein condensate but not the same. Could a god do that to them? We can't say for sure.